The invisible 3rd party

[Shanty Oilish]

A recent DU poll indicates about 1/3 of us would not vote for John Kerry in the GE. Various threads discussing hypothetical 3rd party runs, however, suggest that very few of us would commit the political error of endorsing an independent.
If a substantial percentage of Democrats stay home on election day, even ten percent, what's the difference in the outcome? Wouldn't they constitute a virtual 3rd party?
If you oppose a 3rd party candidacy, why withhold your vote from a Democrat?

[Exgeneral]

1. Maybe as democrats

we feel like they aren't allowing us to choose freely?

So, no third party, just a painful lesson for the guys in charge at the moment?

[Old and In the Way]

18. Isn't that what the primary does?

allow you to choose freely? What you can't choose is other Democrat's preferences. When the primary process started there were 9 candidates.....supporters of 8 of those candidates were doomed to failure, isn't that the politically evolutionary process?

While I'm obviously a Kerry supporter and want to see him win, I've hooked my horse to the wrong buggy a few times. I didn't like it, but I still voted for our nominee

[ringmastery]

2. If you consciously stay home

or vote third party and Bush wins, you have absolutely NO RIGHT to bitch about whatever happens in a second Bush term.

[The Blue Knight]

3. I agree.

Remember what Nader did to Gore in 2000?

Hopefully that will make the DNC wake up and pay attention to the agenda of parties like the Green Party, because they're a loud voice in American politics.

I think we, as Democrats, need to get out and vote, for whoever the Democratic candidate is, because it's essential we get Bush out of the Oval Office.

[ulysses]

10. dear god, this again.

Tell you what, how about you not tell folks what they have a right to do, Sparky?

[Iverson]

11. No.

My First Amendment rights remain, even if I do not share your preference.

What a cruel irony that that preference so often employs "bipartisanship." Some of us find it better not to join hands with the far right while we oppose them.

[RafterMan]

15. Cuts both ways

If the Democrats choose a candidate who is unacceptable to large numbers of anti-Bush voters, they have absolutely NO RIGHT to bitch about whatever happens in a second Bush term.

So there.

[Waistdeep]

4. I learned my lesson in 1968

Could not stomach mainstream democrats. "Liberal" was a dirty word to us new leftist antiwar radicals. So I didn't vote for Hubert Humphrey --- I think I wrote in Eldridge Cleaver as a protest vote.

So we got Nixon.

I think we'd have been better off with Humphrey.

I don't trust Kerry but I'm definitely ABB.

[Terwilliger]

5. New Democrats == third-party....they already left

[ozone_man]

6. I don't oppose a 3rd party candidacy

if Howard Dean or Dean Kucinich were the nominee. But I can't vote for Kerry. I will write in for Dean or if a viable 3rd party candidate arises.

[The Blue Knight]

7. That's your right.

But don't bitch about Bush's 2nd term then if he wins.

[boobooday]

8. I will vote for Kerry, BUT

I won't be happy. I so desperately want to see a REAL liberal in the oval office, for the first time in decades!

I am a Kucinich supporter -- and I like him because he has had real jobs, and real hardships like you and me. AND he has a real progressive platform.

Kerry bugs me because he
1. voted for the war & the patriot act
2. is a skull-and-bonesman, like BUSH!

However, voting for Kerry won't be as hard as voting for Lieberman would have been!

But bottom line, this year, I would vote for ANYBODY BUT BUSH!

http://www.wgoeshome.com

Jeanette

[newyawker99]

21. Hi boobooday!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. Here are my thoughts.

Many people are upset with the direction the Democratic party is moving. There is not enough time, in my opinion, to get the word out, build a backing, and run a third party candidate. Dissenting opinions should vote Dem this year. We need to oust Bush first and foremost. Then those who feel they are not being represented should take that energy over the next four years to build a credible and strong third party. Again, these are just thoughts that run through my head. No third party has a decent shot this cycle in my opinion. Me? I'm voting Dem...whomever that may be. :hi:

[The Blue Knight]

13. I would (I'm 17, don't turn 18 until December 04) vote for Kerry, but it'd

hurt a lot.

I too want to see Kucinich, a REAL progressive, in the White House. Kucinich voted against the war, and against the Patriot Act (one of the few true Patriots on that day).

But, bottom line is, we have to get the right wing out of the west wing.

[sleipnir]

12. Wow, my poll has had a remarkable influence as of late!

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but I never expected that poll to get quoted again and again here at DU!! Draftcaroline, this is probably the 10th post that I've read since I posted the poll last week in which it's been quoted. I was shocked at the results, I thought perhaps 15% at best, but when it finished at 38%, wow...

These results I feel aren't good for Kerry, but they don't spell his doom. He just has to work to get money from the "average citizen" as the Dean fundraising Machine (typically the active, progressive, DU-type crowd) isn't going to give him a dime in the General, let alone vote for him. I reading again and again, how people won't give Kerry any money, but they might vote for him. I suspect this will be the case, Kerry's warchest won't be very large and it'll be a hard fight against the millions * has. In the end, Kerry probably will beat Bush, but not with the help of the War Chest, say, Howard Dean would have had at his disposal. It will be close and the lack of small donor funds might be Kerry's undoing.

I see the future with Kerry as a "lackluster" candidate through the eyes of many of the energetic, "radical" but monetarily generous Party members. He may actually be more liberal than Dean, but he'll never have the unique fundraising abilities that Dean's camp magically possesses.

The only way Kerry gets the access to the Dean fundrasing Monster is through a VP nod or a major brokering deal. Kerry desperately needs that cash and I think we will see a huge consilience between the two candidates' platforms.

[Shanty Oilish]

14. Poll thread link

37% - "I will not vote for Kerry in Nov."

Small sample but scary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=236486

[sleipnir]

16. Thanks for the link! I suspect that the results will be much different

come Nov. But I still contest that 10-15% of those who voted "No" will also vote "No" in Nov. That's not good news for Kerry, if he becomes the nominee.

[EvilJam]

17. 3rd party a good idea!

i'm ready to take my ball and go home.
if "the press" and the DNC and the DLC can choose my Dem Candidate for me, totally "push polling" the Primaries process, then i say, "bleep the Party!"
and the press.
there ARE "independent" (small i) candidiates that lean to the Left.
i'd rather support one of them than support Kerry!
i see no difference between 'S & B' Bush and 'S & B' Kerry.
one is the same as the other.
i'm tired of losing. it's time to combine 3rd Party Parties (the 'Greens' and whomever) and throw our collective support to somebody that can win.
the Democratic Party thinks it can win "from the center" a la Bubba Clinton.
they can't. and won't.
it's time to win from the Left.
and, if my Democratic Party won't do it - move to the Left - then it's time for me to move. where's my ball? i'm moving on. - evil

[LTR]

19. Okay, here's the situation

Woo would you rather have in office? Bush? Or the opponent who has the best chance of beating him?

I'm sure there aren't many Greens who are proud of voting for Nader (or at least Greens in Florida for that matter). Instead of Gore as president (who has much more in common with Green issues), we have George of the Concrete Jungle, killer of the environment.

So here's the choice. Vote for a half-assed, unorganized third party effort with no chance, or take it on the jaw and "suffer" with a Dem in office for the next four years.

ABB is issue #1 for anybody from the center to the left. I don't care who wins the nomination, any Dem is better than four more years of Bush. A Dem in office will at least bring this country back from the far right. Let's crawl before walking.

A left-leaning third party will have much more success in forming at a later date. Right now, the timing is not good.

I'm a Clark supporter, and I'm optimistic that he could still pull something off. Conventional wisdom says otherwise. Even if someone like Kerry gets the nod, I will have no problem voting for him. I won't even hold my nose while doing so. ABB is enough for me.

[EvilJam]

20. okay, rat terrier...

you're right. it is all about ABD - anybody but Dubya!
and, i will hold my nose and vote for Kerry if my man Dean doesn't get the nod!
but, the time is NOW!
now is the time to form the 3rd Party - or merge with the Greens!
strike while the iron is hot - and the iron is plenty hot!
the troops have been rallied! now we just need to gather those that are as dissatisfied with the DNC and DLC and the Dem Party as i am - and move them to the 3rd Party - for NEXT time!
for 2008. it's too late this year. Iowa of all places stole the election. i'd rather lose in 2008 with a Nader-like 4% of the vote than support some wishy washy "centrist" Dem! - evil