After all the "How the Dems won" articles, anyone else suprised over lack of Dean....

[HardWorkingDem]

credit?

Just received the new Nation, have read The New Republic, Progressive and others like The American Prospect and I'm stunned over the lack of good things folks say about Dean. Katha Pollit in the Nation did credit Dean with his 50 state strategy but I'm stunned over the lack of credit I think Dean should be getting for his showing the Dem's where their spine is located.

And hell, people can't claim it's all due to the corporate media, DLC or other things. Which leads me to my last conclusion: Dean must really be the type of person who is a terrible (but a good, virtuous thing not to be good at) self-promoter and not in need of constant adulation. Imagine if Terry McAullife (I'm too lazy to look up the right spelling of his name) had been the head of the DNC. That endless self-promoting gasbag would be every where sucking up attention, especially if he didn't deserve it.

I'd just like to see Dean get the credit he deserves for all he's done for the Democratic Party.

[dionysus]

1. i agree totally...

all you hear is rah-rah-rahm...

[blm]

2. The left media can be as misleading to the left as the corpmedia sometimes.

It's a shame that most of the megaphones happen to be in front of guys like Carville, Begala, Davis and McAuliffe.

The coverup wing of the Democratic party gets a much smoother ride than the anti-corruption, open government wing of the Democratic party.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. ...guys like Carville, Begala, Davis and McAuliffe...

What do they have to do with the left?

[blm]

12. They are the ones who get the microphones and megaphones as if they

represent the party. They get to create the inside DC 'buzz' about Dem politics that become the conventional wisdom which many even on the left can get drawn into a bit too easily.

[wyldwolf]

3. Been there, done this. Many have credited Dean's role.

There were multi-layers to the '06 victory. House. Senate. Governors. State Legislatures. To credit one person with all that is laughable.

[HardWorkingDem]

9. Why I consider Dean the MVP:

Early on he took on a popular president, just like Clinton did; he reminded the Dem's the importance of having a spine, standing up for what you believe in and saying what is right even if it hurts you (remember when he told Chris Matthew's he would break up the big media companies?); his unending optimism; his unusual foresight and finding/being found by Joe Trippi; his sacrifice to the Dem Party and I'm sure there are others I'm missing.

Yes, I agree that all of this good fortune can't be laid at the feet of one person, but my point is about my surprise of the LACK of credit he is getting in especially the print media. (I read over 60 periodicals on a regular basis and am stunned at the lack of his name being mentioned. I've yet to read the accountings in the new issue of In These Times, hopefully they'll do something.)

[wyldwolf]

14. I only consider him part of the team

Many people took on Bush early on.

[cali]

52. No they certainly did not.

Do name all those prominent dems who so bravely took on bushco. What a crock.

[dsc]

22. Had this election gone the other way

Dean would have been blamed. The fact is that Dean insisted, against the wishes of both Emmanuel and Shumer upon rebuilding state parties in places like Ohio, Indiana and others. We never would have won in those places without Dean's forsight.

[blm]

24. Bingo - Foley incident guaranteed a bigger Dem win, too, so establishment Dems

needed to jump in front and pretend they had been there all along, when it was the hard work put in By Dean rebuilding long collapsed party infrastructures in neglected states that made ALL the difference in the world.

Dean did what the DNC should have been doing for the last 10 years. He did his JOB.

[napi21]

4. Well, for what it worth, he got a lot of credit here on DU.

I, as well as many others creditDean a lot more than Rahm and Shummer. All those two know is the same old, same old, and it was Howard who brought new life back to our Party. You have no idea how much I still wish he had been our candidate and WOn the Presidency. We wouldn't haveany of the major problems we now have!

[CAcyclist]

5. It's like Ann Richards used to say:

You can get a lot accomplished if you don't care who takes credit.

[acmavm]

6. The people give Dean the credit. That's what is most

important.

[wyldwolf]

8. what people are those?

Don't recall seeing any polls on the subject.

[acmavm]

13. When Carville bad mouthed Dean the people who make up

the democratic party made enough noise to make Schumer credit Dean and isolate Carville. Various and sundry democratic persons came forward to say that Dean and his 50-state strategy is what allowed us to make the comeback that we did in this election.

Do you need a poll for everything? Do you trust everything you see in a poll?

Do you remember how Dean got to be head of the DNC? Popular support from the people. Well, the people haven't abandoned Dean because Dean hasn't abandoned the people.

[wyldwolf]

16. LOL! No, you are mistaken.

When Carville bad mouthed Dean the people who make up the democratic party made enough noise to make Schumer credit Dean and isolate Carville.

I think you're mistaking the netroots with the Democratic party. And there is no indication that the "the people who make up the Democratic party" had any influence on Schumer.

Various and sundry democratic persons came forward to say that Dean and his 50-state strategy is what allowed us to make the comeback that we did in this election.

Name five of importance.

o you need a poll for everything? Do you trust everything you see in a poll?

When someone makes an obviously dubious claim like you did, yes I prefer a poll.

Do you remember how Dean got to be head of the DNC? Popular support from the people.

Uh... more delegate votes?

Well, the people haven't abandoned Dean because Dean hasn't abandoned the people.

Among liberal Democrats, 14% cite Howard Dean as the party's leader, on par with the percentage who cite Clinton (14%) and Pelosi (13%).

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=296

[acmavm]

17. It was the noise from the people that ensured that Dean was

made head of the DNC.

And I see that you do believe everything you see in the polls.

[wyldwolf]

18. That is the god's honest truthiness!

And I see you can't respond to much of anything I wrote.

[dionysus]

27. actually there was an article about a group of state Dem

Party chairs who praised Dean and said the beltway idiots didn't know what they were talking about.

You probably read it. Shit, you probably dissed the grassroots and Dean on the thread about it.

Nice try Mr Condescendo

[wyldwolf]

31. yes there was

But since the effort came from the "beltway idiots," I'll take the word of people like Pelosi and Rangel over some state party chairs who are shitting because they got some extra money thrown their way.

From the article: "State party chairmen who receive their checks from the Democratic National Committee clearly took Dean's side."

[dsc]

33. One of those state chairs was Indiana's where we won

not one, not two, but three Congressional seats this time. (that would be one eighth of the total we won not that I am counting or anything).

[wyldwolf]

35. Know what Geogia's state chair said?

Where was Dean?

[dsc]

37. We won two out of two very vulnerable incumbents there

and that is the best we could do there. Incidently in NC we won one, and nearly won another Congressional seat. Georgia's problem isn't money, it's the fact the state is moving right. We lost every state wide race in Georgia, most by over 5 points. For the forseeable future Georgia just isn't going to happen. On edit, Incidently, you can't have it both ways. Either the state chairs know what is going on or they don't.

[wyldwolf]

39. Because the DCCC poured money into it

I guess we should call it Dean's 49 state strategy? Are you justifyimg Dean NOT helping in GA?

We won in NC, again, because Heath Shuler was recruited and supported by the DCCC.

[dsc]

41. recruited yes

but the money was largely raised in NC from what I understand. I live in NC but on the otherside of the state.

[wyldwolf]

42. Well, sure. In House races, the DCCC does expect candidates to raise some money locally

... but we pour much more into targeted races.

[PassingFair]

28. How many people EVER cited Terry McAuliffe?

Got a poll number on that?

[wyldwolf]

32. on what?

And have I made a claim on McAuliffe requiring statistical data?

[PassingFair]

43. I think that 14% is very HIGH

for Dean. How many people do you think would have
cited Terry McAuliffe as "head of the democratic
party" during his years a chairman?

I'll wager 0%.

[wyldwolf]

51. Well, McAuliffe was nver in the public eye like a.. oh.. Presidential candidate??

[PassingFair]

55. And he was never like a ... oh...

successful!

Or popular amongst the POPULATION.

You SLAY me.

:rofl:

[wyldwolf]

60. You know as well as I... or maybe you don't...

...because I know Deaniacs are relative newcomers... that DNC chairs traditionally have low profiles and aren't former Presidential candidates.

Yet, he certainly doesn't stand out among the pack in who the leader of the party is. Overall, only 3% see him as the party's leader... Only 14% of self described liberals see him as the leader and only 2% of moderates see him as the leader. POPULAR among the population? :rofl: YOU slay me!

[PassingFair]

63. The "Belt"way has tightened a couple of notches....

Whether you like it or not.
The progressives are cleaning house.

How's that AIPAC thingy going for you guys?

[wyldwolf]

64. LOL! That old "progressives are cleaning house" thing again?

Is that tired old Marxist-like revolutionary rhetoric the best you can do?

Hey! Someone tell the 16 new DLC members "progressives" are cleaning house. :rofl:

[PassingFair]

65. You mean that TAXABLE entity

known as the DLC?

They are TAXABLE now, aren't they.

When did that take effect?

[wyldwolf]

66. ... the one with 16 new members. Yes.

They must have missed that giant bottle of progressive windex!

[PassingFair]

68. THIS one?

DLC loses tax exempt status

snip>

"In a previously unreported action, the Internal Revenue Service has revoked the DLC’s tax exemption on the grounds that it primarily benefited a private group—Democrats, and particularly “New Democrats” running for or holding office—rather than the community at large. The DLC has sued in federal court to overturn the decision;"


http://www.correntewire.com/dlc_loses_tax_exempt_status

Oh yeah, THAT one.

The government of SOME of the people, by SOME of the people, for SOME of the people.

SOME in this case being corporate minions.

THAT one....

I get it.

[wyldwolf]

71. yep! THAT one. With 16 new members!

[nodular]

44. Nice reference.

Has this been used to head up a thread yet? It should.

[dorktv]

19. I am one such person. I know many more in here in AZ.

It may have been a team effort but it was not without some major fighting over resources.

Dean stood his ground and we gained some seats we may not have simply by having someone there.

Targeting only can work so far, but what if you have a race catch on without any ground work done from a party level?

[wyldwolf]

34. WOW! I know many people, too

Who don't believe Dean's strategy was any factor at all. Hey! We both know "people."

[dorktv]

57. Republicans do not count. :)

I know only one Democratic person who believes that Dean had the wrong strategy. One.

Everyone else, INCLUDING one of Rahm's targets think that Dean had the right idea.

One has to build up the party to get the long term goal of the Ds back in charge. I am sorry you feel his ideas are less then worthy.

[wyldwolf]

61. I'm not counting them.

I know a SLEW of Democrats who believe Dean's strategy had little or no effect in 2006.

[PassingFair]

26. State Chairs

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Democrats-Dean.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

snip>
"TETON VILLAGE, Wyo. (AP) -- Democratic chairman Howard Dean on Friday took a swipe at Washington critics who questioned his strategy of spending money in all 50 states, dismissing them as the ''old Democratic Party.''

Basking in the afterglow of last week's election victories, Dean told the state party chairmen who were among the biggest beneficiaries of his strategy that it was an approach marked by Democratic wins at all levels of government."

The PEOPLE love him.
The CHAIRS love him.
Anyone who is watching
grows to admire him.

[wyldwolf]

36. yeah

"State party chairmen who receive their checks from the Democratic National Committee clearly took Dean's side."

[PassingFair]

47. The bias of the press is NEVER in question, mr. wolf.

Your lapping it up IS.

[wyldwolf]

50. LOL! I wasn't the one who linked to the article to make the point. But I quoted from it

[PassingFair]

56. Quote Away

Despite the SLANT, the State Chairs LOVE DEAN.

As do the local county delegates across the country
who politic and support their local and state chairs.

Call up the video from Wyoming if you want to SEE
the meeting without the snide slant.

Check out his address to the Canadian Liberal Party
if you want to see a positive reception.

The beltway is small and getting smaller.

Myopia is a terrible thing.

[wyldwolf]

62. Oh, I get it! LOL! The GOOD parts on Dean aren't slanted. The bad parts are!

Isn't too hard to see that the state party chairs who got that big check side with Dean. He paid for their loyalty! :rofl: !!!!

[bianca2001]

7. I'M A DEANIAC FROM WAAAY BACK

so I agree, too. But that's the beauty of the ESSENCE of this man:
HE IS SINGLEMINDED!!! Or, HE HAS A DREAM. Nothing else seems to
matter to him, except what he is focused on. Right now, it is to
set this country on the right (Left?)PATH.

I'd say it is up to us, his GRATEFUL admirers, to make sure that he gets
the credit that is his due.

If Americans don't "get it", others do. e.g. The English and Canadians.
They certainly appreciate him: they want and need his council.

[PVnRT]

11. Nope

Hillary's Brigades are out in force, working to marginalize him and his organization. The Beltway insiders do not like competition.

[dorktv]

20. I think that the average Democrat in the field is aware of the job

Dean has done. Most of them hate the media anyway.

[BeFree]

15. Indeed

But as long as the current power structure is in place Dean will be marginalized.

Dean is not in bed with the fat cats. He spreads the love in all 50 states!

[wisteria]

21. Agree, I am tied of the media pumping up only a select few and ignoring

others. Ever notice that our party is also short on praising others for a good job?
Dean had more to do with getting the vote out than all the money Shumer and Emanuel raised and put into ignored commercials.

[madfloridian]

23. You need to check out their sources of funding.

Follow the money. TNR, well, we sort of expect it from them. The Nation is subtly changing lately, with a few there making it their goal to assess Dean in a negative way.

The groups like Democracy Alliance which are funding various media don't disclose enough to suit me. Most of the ones involved in those groups are not that inclined to go along with Dean's planned power shift.

It worries me we do not have a clue who is funding what, where think tanks get their money, as most don't have to disclose...

The party leaders will not give him credit, we will just have to do so best we can.

[rapallos]

25. Worked Two Campaigns

Never saw Dean and never had one person mention they were voting for the Dem because of Dean.

What they said was, they are sick of the direction of this country.

So credit whoever you want. But if there is nothing done but back slapping.

You can be sure the Dems will be back in the minority. Dean or no Dean.

And yes, I worship at the alter of Howard Dean before I have my morning coffee if anyone may think I am really James Carville.

[JNelson6563]

29. At least WE know

we little people here in the grass-roots.

:toast: To us little people & Governor Dean!

[robcon]

30. Dean did nothing to win, IMO.

His 50-state strategy was a disaster. Rahm Emanuel should get a lot of credit - he was a voice of sanity in priorities in the election.

[knight_of_the_star]

38. One problem with that

Of all the seats Emmanuel put up as his chosen ones, only eight of those seats won. If his candidates lost, we would still have a majority.

[dsc]

40. that isn't a fair way to look at it

The fact no incumbent on our side lost is also a feather in his cap.

[LittleClarkie]

45. Tammy Duckworth is an example of why you're wrong

Three million pumped into her campaign, and she lost. And Emanuel wanted more. For what, another consultant? If three million wasn't going to do it, what would?

And if the 50-state strategy was such a disaster, then why are we suddenly competetive in states that were solid red a couple of years ago. Virginia, for one. You know, the state that won the Senate for us.

[dorktv]

58. Virginia is not the best example: they have a strong and growing

Democratic presence since YDA and a few other organizations have targeted the state for growth.

However, I think John Hall, that one guy in Florida, and a few other people were helped by someone realising we have to build from the bottom up to win elections.

Dean has always been about building a long term base and not just thinking of the next election-thinking of 2010-2012 and so on.

[paulk]

72. I honestly don't see how one can draw a line between

Democratic success in this election cycle and the "fifty state strategy" - since the fifty state strategy was always advertised as something that would bear fruit years from now - at least that was my understanding of it. This election cycle was unique in that it was a rejection of Republican policies in the present day, combined with some demographic and polling trends that were already evident - I really don't see the "competitiveness in states that were solid red" as a result of anything more than that.

------------------

ps - this post meant to exist outside of the usual DU Rahm vs. Dean tit for tat.

[LittleClarkie]

46. I'm thinking that some at the Nation are anti-Dem

Hence, giving a Dem credit galls them, apparently.

[OzarkDem]

70. Or maybe

they're becoming more like the "inside the beltway" chattering class.

Everyone was very comfortable with using the grassroots base of the party for a romp in the hay every 4 years, ignoring them the rest of the time. A lot of folks got rich that way, taking all that money for consulting fees and still losing races.

Dean has upset the beltway Dem gravy train and those folks have friends who work for the political mags, too.

Dean also supports the netroots and Dem bloggers, all of whom cut into the revenue of the magazines.

They're just going to have to learn to accept it.

[Cha]

48. Well, if Katha Pollitt gave Dean

credit for the 50 State Strategy then that's saying a lot. Whenever I open The Nation I go right to her column, "Subject to Debate", and see what she has to say.

snip~
.."But wait--maybe they won because the much-mocked, rarely credited Howard Dean was right: His 50 state strategy, building actually functioning parties in every state and conceding no race, however doubtful, forced the Republicans to spend money and energy and political capital defending races they had taken for granted."


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061204/pollitt

[calimary]

49. I'm disgusted by it. This victory came about as the result of the

"50-State Strategy" that mobilized Dems where they had NEVER been competitive before. It enabled our party to dare to dream - even in states where we thought there was no use, no realistic prospects, and no hope. That was Howard Dean all the way, and that's what got us to the finish line first. It was Howard Dean. Howard Dean mobilized the troops - the grassroots, and gave us hope. And we did the rest.

I don't care what the rest of the Beltway fops say. It was Dean who did it. Dean got the Party started.

[Guaranteed]

53. Your point about Dean's leadership as cause is unbelievably underrepresented, even here

on DU.

It might be difficult to see, but it was Dean's opposition strategy, more than his 50-state strategy, that led to the political climate that won the election for us.

[wyldwolf]

67. I find Ezra Klein's analysis interesting

he 2006 election, as Matt likes to point out, wasn't a test of the 50 State Strategy. It was nearer to Chris Bower's 435 race concept, where every seat is challenged. The 50 State Strategy relies on funding state parties to put down infrastructure and staff to create long-term change. It simply couldn't have worked yet, not in any meaningful way. That's a feature, not a bug. It's an actual long-term vision, not a next-election gambit...

... The conversation going on now obscures this. David Sirota, for instance, mocks Carville for thinking "Howard Dean’s 50-state strategy had nothing to do with Democrats winning in places like Kansas and New Hampshire, where groups like the DCCC all but abandoned its own candidates." Carville's right, it didn't. And Dean would agree. Credit for the Kansas win should largely go to Kathleen Sebelius, whose skillful exploitation of a moderate vs. conservative crack-up in the state was the greatest, and most underappreciated, political performance this cycle. As for New Hampshire, the Northeastern conversion was largely a structural occurrence -- as Tom Schaller has repeatedly pointed out, it was a realignment. The three or four staffers Dean may (or may not) have put on the ground there likely had little do with it...

...Defend Dean's resource allocation if you want. But this election was not a referendum on the 50 State Strategy. It wouldn't have been had Democrats lost, it isn't now that they've won. The 50 State Strategy is an actual long-term strategy, the success of which won't be measurable for many cycles yet.

[HardWorkingDem]

69. Baby steps....

But if you recall, from the start of Dean's campaign way back, he kept stressing how Dems need to talk to all type of Americans. That by thinking we can't win here or there and ignoring those places, then we will never know and will just let the Rethugs take them with no fight.

I'm not saying Dean should get all, or even a majority, of the credit. I'm just surprised at the lack of mention in the print media. It's like many of these writers colluded to ignore his role.

And I CAN go back to the coverage of the 2004 presidential race and show where MOST of the Dem candidates were very careful how they went after Bush and Co. Out of all the others, Dean, Kucinich and Graham, were the ones to really take the fight to Bush and Co.

[madfloridian]

73. Yes, he instilled a spirit to fight back...

That does not get enough attention..

He will speak on something, get blasted by the other Democrats, and in a few months it is conventional wisdom within the party.

[sendero]

54. The media on the left..

... spins only a little less than the media on the right.

A lot of folks, especially Republicans but distressingly also Dems, would like it if Dean would just go away.

I'm hoping he doesn't, and thank goodness for the internet.

[enough already]

59. The elite a-holes in the beltway need Dean out of the way

To clear a path for Hillary's coronation.