My Worst Post Ever.

[FredStembottom]

I just finished 6 years of fighting against the Republican cult in no small part on behalf of my 2 boys. They are 17 and 19.

There were a myriad of other reasons why I have fought conservatives over the years. But keeping my kids (and their friends)from being put to use in the military adventurism that Republicans had been hinting at for 26 years now was high on my list of reasons to become involved.

Now that that adventurism has been played out in reality - and now that the vast majority of Americans have already woken up to the horrors of it and said so at the polls - NOW - my DEMOCRATS propose drafting these kids I have been fighting for!

And drafting them to continue an already failed war that was begun on lies, conducted under false pretenses and is wholly the fault of the Republicans!

"But, chill out, Fred Stembottom! It's just Charlie Rangel. It's just a rhetorical trick to get Freepers to spit their coffee", I will be told.

But I am doing the coffee-spitting! To toy so lightly with the lives of these wonderful kids I know to make some sort of debating point has me dying on the inside! What if the Republicans take us up on this idea? Have we just handed them a get-out-of-jail-free card on this issue? Why not go ahead and re-instate the draft now that it is THE DEMOCRAT'S idea?

Why bring this up now?!?!?! We WON! We won because America already IS fed up with this war. Let me say it again: WE WON. Why do such bowel loosening dare-devil "points" have to be made at all???? At this time??????

You will call me irrational at this point. And I am. I don't give a crap WHO threatens my kids with being sent to die for no reason - I still feel the threat.

And that's my point. My reward for 26 years of Democratic activism is to have my kids threatened. By the guys I have worked so hard for.

How do "we" win by this?

I am gone. I am signing off my activism. No one who threatens me like this gets my support.

I am mad, angry, confused and feeling betrayed.

This is my worst posting ever - but the one I am acting on.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. it's a very conflicting situation

On the one hand, national service would be a positive thing. And also, I understand Rangel's angle. (rhyme not intended) But the political pot in this case involves very real people.

I just don't know.

[itsmesgd]

2. There Will Be NO DRAFT

Thousands will march in the streets and the government will be shut down, brought to its knees, and overthrown long before the first soldier is drafted against his will. This measure will cause a debate and force the repukes to take a stand. It will not last a week. The people will not accept a draft. Use this opportunity to teach your two boys a civics lesson and mellow out until the time when we march in the streets.

[Little Wing]

I'm not convinced

People are apathetic these days, and they'll "have a plan" for their kids. Hell, parents are even calling college professors to bitch about their kids' exam grades. They'll be okay with some other kid going off to war.

Besides, if a GOPr was trying the same thing, and the FReepers were saying "Oh don't worry, it's not gonna happen" would YOU believe it.

[elehhhhna]

52. Rangels bill specifically allows NO DEFERMENT for college students.

[Buzz Clik]

13. This intentional divisiveness through outrageous legislation is a Karl Rove trick.

I don't like Karl Rove.

Let's drop it. NOW.

[BoneDaddy]

36. When are we ever going to stop

blaming the repubs and Rove and start taking initiative and stances now. This was proposed by Rangel, a Democrat.

[Buzz Clik]

43. I stated it badly -- I was not blaming Rove,

I was merely saying the draft proposal is in the style of Rove.

[FormerDittoHead]

20. ...and WHO would they be protesting against? DEMOCRATS! Not a very good idea, IMO. n/t

[TankLV]

38. Exactly - THERE WILL BE NO DRAFT. PERIOD.

Why is this so hard for some to understand?

[Warren Stupidity]

40. You are dreaming.

Thousands might march in the streets but nobody will shut the government down. At best a few might attempt civil disobedience, and they will be dealt with promptly. The government will deal swiftly and surely with any attempt at draft resistence. Any attempt to 'shut the government down' will be dealt with harshly, if need be brutally, and we will act like the students in the UCLA library: we will passively record atrocities for youtube viewing pleasure and the blogosphere will cluck like hens and the draft will proceed in an orderly fashion.

[acmejack]

3. It would be your most foolish post ever if that is the case Fred.

Rangel did the exact same thing a couple of years ago, did you freak out then? Why not? Whatever...

[FredStembottom]

6. Oh yes I did. BIG TIME.

But he wasn't making it then into a lame-duck congress that just might DO it before they leave.

I repeat: why do this NOW?

We Won! We won because people already hate this war.

Why play chicken with my kids NOW????????

[Warpy]

10. I did, but it seems the lesson wasn't adequately

taught.

Listen up, the peacetime draft is JUST PLAIN WRONG on so many levels it's hard to sum up concisely.

[Dhalgren]

17. A "peacetime draft"? That is the problem in a nutshell.

People seem to think we are at "peace". Why is that?

[lumberjack_jeff]

71. Because when you're the minority party, you can say stupid shit...

... for the purposes of igniting debate, getting attention and raising consicousness.

When you run things, it's a different kettle of fish.

[demnan]

4. I think Charlie Rangel should not have used this issue

to make a point. But here's what could happen with this, we tried to play by the rules, worked to put people in power who would stop this war. If they don't do this and instead we have a massive buildup of troops (whether we have a draft or not) it's time to take to the streets in protest, every weekend in every city in this country.

And this year, if you want to come to D.C. and protest, you can sleep on my futon (if you're not allergic to cats) and I'll drive you to D.C. 30 miles from my home.

[grizmaster]

5. He seems to be calling for something more than a draft

he's calling for 2 years public service of several different options and paying for school afterward.

What if your kids options under his plan let's them serve the public good in a non-military fashion and it pays for your kids' college too?

[Lost4words]

7. Me thinks you are over reacting just a bit.

And if this is making you give up your activism, I question how committed to the cause you really were.

I suspect it's a tactic to get more families thinking about their kids going off to a phony war.

And its obviously working!

[FredStembottom]

9. Oh....I am utterly irrational this morning!

And how many other Democrats are ,too?

Great tactics. Superb timing.

Hit your supporters HARD - that'll get those damn Freepers!

[Buzz Clik]

14. You have company. I hate this ridiculous maneuver.

[Lost4words]

48. try to relax, give our reps some elbow room.

[lumberjack_jeff]

72. If they want to draft my kids, they're not my reps. n/t

[Warpy]

8. There are too many kneejerks out there who don't realize

just WHY we fought so hard to end the draft some 30 years ago. It's up to us to teach them so that the Rangels of this world won't be able to reinstitute this terrible policy.

We have to remind them that opposition to Vietnam came from the powerless children of the poor and middle class, that their parents supported it, as did the rich. You see, poor kids had to fight it. Their parents didn't and the rich didn't. Middle class kids could delay the inevitable through college deferments before the rich decided those were unfair, but then they had to go too.

We've been able to fight successful and popular wars with a smaller volunteer army. The first Gulf War was over quickly and was successful, mainly because it didn't result in an occupation.

Now we find ourselves with a madman in office who would love to fight "pre-emptive" wars with a quarter the globe. The only thing clipping his wings of military ambition is a lack of enthusiasm among the enlisting classes: poor and middle class youth.

It seems we have to struggle again against people who weren't there, who don't remember, and who have some sort of pipe dream about an egalitarian military training program for 100% of our kids, even young women with children (ugh).

Those of you who think a draft can be made fairer had better look at history, both of war and of Reagan's simplified tax code. Powerful men in office will always get sweetheart tax deductions for their contributors and the same will happen with a draft code. You can bet every offspring of a fat cat contributor will have a sweetheart exemption written into the draft law as riders on other bills.

That's just the way the world works, kids, and you'd better get used to it. No draft. Not now. Not ever.

[RethugAssKicker]

29. Perfect... This sums it up for me.... let me add one more thing...

FUCK RANGEL and his stupid idea!

[Zavulon]

51. Let me second that.

If you're going to make a point, this is a very bad way to do it. Worse still, when people rightly accuse Republicans of wanting a draft, thanks to Rangel Freepers can say "Hey, it's a Dem idea."

"Fuck Rangel" is right.

[Norquist Nemesis]

11. First of all, "Draft" in Rangel's terms does not equal Conscription

I have a 22 and 19 yo son and daughter, so I'm in the same boat as you in terms of fighting the Cons. Unfortunately, people are fixating on the military aspect of the proposal.

Second, 'shared sacrifice' for service to the Country is not a bad thing. (Especially when one considers that the military service is one of several options.) IIRC, part of Kerry's platform referenced a service to the country component.

Third, a Military Draft will not happen.

Finally, this isn't the first time the Rangel proposal has been put forth and discussed (at least here on DU). My biggest concern about a Draft Bill is that the Executive Branch would have the authority to move people to the section "with the greatest need". In other words, the people would have to rank their choices, but have no say about the final decision. There would have to be a provision that they get their #1 choice.

[PVnRT]

46. So, you support government coercion?

Enforced servitude? I guess it's not slavery if you get paid.

A free country depends upon the ability of its citizens to make free choices. I find it sad so many at DU are willing to sacrifice that simply because it's proposed by a liberal from New York.

[Buzz Clik]

12. Fantastic post.

[peacetalksforall]

15. Please consider nuance - if we never talk about the social

injustices that are resulting in so much maiming and so many deaths of the kids of other parents we are not following through on a problem. When we continue to invade and fight, we must look at the injustices that result.

Make it two issues. The rhetorical one about social injustice.

AND the reason we need to even be talking about this. WAR and FEAR. PROFIT and CONTROL. There are people who want the profit of war, plus the free control to carry it off, (and possibly the form of population control that is the spin off). These people think nothing more of a human body than they do about the phasing out of one of their war toys made of metal. Their are people who thrive on the fear control planted by the war makers.

Their killer disregard for humanity to the idea that war support stops at a certain level of society - AMONG WAR SUPPORTERS - requires nuances of reality and understanding.

[OneBlueSky]

21. some of us here may appreciate nuance . . . the vast majority of Americans . . .

do not . . . all they see is the Democrats proposing a draft -- right after the country elected them to END the war . . .

leading with this issue is beyond foolish . . . it is potentially devastating . . . what if the Republicans and a few Democrats actually vote for a draft early next year? . . . a Democratic draft? . . . where do you think that will leave us in 2008? . . .

we can discuss drafts and national service and such AFTER we extricate ourselves from this god-awful mess in Iraq . . . to even consider giving BushCo MORE resources to wage their wars is insanity . . .

[cali]

16. Not being familiar with your posting history

I can't say whether this is your worst post ever, but I do agree it's damned awful. Not to mention overwrought.

For the hundredth time: Rangel is using a rhetorical device to shine a light on the hypocricy of the pukes and the disaster that is military adventurism.

[FredStembottom]

18. And my boys are the batteries in that light.

So.....I got 13 days off? After all the work and money and securing a victory - My kids and I got 13 days before the absolute worst fear we have was dangled in front of us again?

Should I have had to even think of this now?

I know....while we're at it, let's really show those Republicans and cut off all food-stamps! (Don't worry. It'll play out to where no-one will really go hungry! But if a million needy people have to live in hourly fear until it does play out - exactly as expected - Well, that's politics! Point made!)

[cali]

25. You are hardly the only person with children

I have a 20 year old son. And I support what Rangel is doing. Comparing it to cutting off food stamps is just absurd.

[Bake]

19. While I frequently agree with you, Cali, today I must differ

IF it is merely a rhetorical device, it's a damn lousy one. It's like being in a fight with someone who MIGHT be armed, and you pull a gun out that you don't intend to use. It just might escalate the situation to where you have no choice but to shoot.

Not my son. Not now. Not ever.

Bake

[Lurking Dem]

24. Well said.

I really don't appreciate the bandying about of my only child, who will be 18 in April, as a rhetorical device.

[cali]

26. Bake,

There is no chance that this will get through Congress. None. My 20 year old son and your son are not in danger of being drafted. Charlie's draft proposal is DOA, but it does put the war mongers in a very uncomfortable place.

[mtnsnake]

31. You are very naive

What might be a non-chance issue to you is not the same thing to the war mongers you mentioned. To them, something like this is "breaking the ice."

Quite a while before it happened, I remember so many people saying we'd never attack Iraq. "It will never happen."

[Lost4words]

53. Heck I knew it would happen where were you?

I knew we were in for it on DECEMBER 12, 2000! Where were you then with your anger?

Where were you when my and so many other jobs left the country? I didnt hear you protesting then, why because it didnt effect you our your kids so it was OK I guess.

You and so many other so called countrymen couldnt give a poop because it was free trade, a natural evolution many said, get over it they said to me.

Well now Rangle is talking about a draft, just talking mind you, and you are ready to attack the Democratic Party and those who dont share your outrage on this non issue.

I am old enough to know ALL ABOUT the draft. I am old enough to have grand children of draft age.

You'all didnt give a crap for me or my families problems or the problems of millions of us who are facing life with little or NO income at all. Sounds like your kids are doing OK or they would be in the military just to make a dollar!

PS If your kids aren't bright enough to go to Canada when drafted, then thats your fault not mine.

Although there will be no draft!

I hate to say this to a fellow Democrat but you said it to me, GET OVER IT!

[mtnsnake]

58. Surely you posted to me by accident because none of your rant applies

to anything I said.

[Lost4words]

60. Actually I was, I associate you with the sky is falling group

that has their panties all twisted up over the possibility of the draft being reinstated.

Am I wrong?

[mtnsnake]

61. Then I've got some bad news for you

It means you're neurotic, paranoid, and delusional, as witnessed by your previous post that totally mis-characterized me, mis-judged me, and mis-comprehended me...and got it all wrong along the way.

Seek some help pal.

[Lost4words]

64. on your advice, right away.

[Lost4words]

67. Well I didnt call you any of the things you called me for starts.

your statement re me in your post,

It means you're neurotic, paranoid, and delusional, as witnessed by your previous post that totally mis-characterized me, mis-judged me, and mis-comprehended me...and got it all wrong along the way.

Since you are making personal judgments toward me and I had not made personal judgments to you and I am "neurotic, paranoid, and delusional"?

And how did I misunderstand your post?

You were obviously against Rangle mentioning the draft in a previous post of yours, did I get that wrong?

You mentioned it gives the warmongers an open door to the issue. Am I wrong there?

Before I check into the rubber room on your diagnosis, you might just try to express yourself a little better. And try to curtail the personal attacks.

You can call me on what I posted all day long, but not what you believe my mentai health to be.

I replied to you in this thread because it seemed, to me, that you were agreeing that Rangels talk of the Draft was a betrayal to the voters who put the democrats back in power.

And/or to dangerous to even mention.

IMHO, If middle class war supporters knew there was a chance their little junior could be drafted there would be much less support for the phony stinking war and result in all troops coming home sooner.

And guess what even during NAM there were democrats on the draft boards.
Draft age pukes didnt get a walk unless you were George Bush.

If you would be so kind as to tell me where I misjudged you or your position, I will be happy to clarify or apologize.

Signed your, neurotic, paranoid, and delusional fellow DUer 8643

[Lost4words]

54. Never say never my friend. n/t

[RethugAssKicker]

30. I absolutely disagree!!!

Rangels "rhetorical" idea is too playfule for me. There is no need for this type of suggestion... It just might backfire...

Certain things should not be played with!

[mtnsnake]

32. Amen

There is nothing rhetorical about a Democrat proposing a draft.

[BoneDaddy]

37. LOL

I agree. I love the people who claim it is a rhetorical trick to shine the light of blah blah blah.

Nuance? When the hell has the American people, in general, shown an appreciation of nuance, abstraction or depth of thought.

John Kerry slipped up a bad joke and through the looking glass media and American stupidity and gullibility, the guy, once again, got swiftboated.

Americans, for the most part, respond to the prodding of the reptilian brain and cannot be expected to find nuance acceptable or believable.

My point is things get spun enough, why does Rangel have to give them more ammo to spin with?

It is an interesting approach and one I would do as an experiment in a poli-sci college class, but not one I would use on the American people.

[ChiciB1]

34. I Agree With You Cali... Also Said Same On another Thread.... n/t

[Lost4words]

50. EXACTLY! For the 100 & first time!

Rangel is using a rhetorical device to shine a light on the hypocricy of the pukes and the disaster that is military adventurism.

:think:

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. A 2 x 4 is not a rhetorical device, it's a weapon.

He's part of the ruling party now. In that role don't need rhetorical devices, you need prudent stewardship.

[DisgruntledVet]

22. Charlie Rangel

represents an inner city district, and he believes the war is being fought more by disadvantaged minorities than by the kids of the upper and middle classes. He represents his constiuency, and since that constituency is disproportionally fighting this war, and not the kids of the asshats that got us into it, this draft suggestion is to bring home who is doing the fighting and the dying. I obviously don't want a draft, but neither does virtually anyone else, from the left or the right. I think provoking this shock and outrage is just what he had in mind. Frankly I think it is piss poor timing, but there you have it.


Also interesting is this, http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2004/roll494.xml which is the last vote on the draft.

Only 2 "yes" votes, and Rangel wasn't one of them. Murtha was though.

[geiger]

23. My oldest just turned 13 and he has been worried about getting drafted

since the whole Iraq thing started.

There's a book out there, "The Political Life of Children" that I keep meaning to read. The stresses in their lives are heartbreaking.

Like you, I, too, feel betrayed. I have two sons and this is the last thing I wanted to hear.

[mtnsnake]

27. I don't blame you for feeling like you do. Hang on, though, maybe our Dems

will restore your faith, and mine, too, in the days to come with words of wisdom that will overpower all the weak vibes we're getting so far. However, if they don't go for the Bushco jugular in the very near future, then they can wash any remaining credibility right down the drain.

Great post, btw.

[Lost4words]

69. Hey mtnsnake, I just made sense of your post to me!

your quote about me,

"It means you're neurotic, paranoid, and delusional, as witnessed by your previous post that totally mis-characterized me, mis-judged me, and mis-comprehended me...and got it all wrong along the way."


If I totally mis-characterized you, mis-judged you, and mis-comprehended you and got it all wrong.

Well thats a double negative my friend,

If I mis-judged you and got it wrong..............

If I mis-comprehended you and got it wrong..............

If I mis-characterized you and got it wrong..............

So based on your comment to me I have judged you (Wrong, I dont judge people)

I have characterized you (wrong, I dont know you from shineola)

I have comprehended you (correct! you are griping about Rangle Draft talk)and thats what I replied to.

And its silly just silly, and how fickle.

I know if you were not so upset you would have not made such a silly mistake with the double negative.

Chill a little.

[RethugAssKicker]

28. Your BEST POST EVER.......

You're damn right and I feel the same way...

We bust our asses to get the DEMS elected. We bust our asses to educate people aabout the lies and horrors of this war... and every war in general.. AND THIS IS WHAT WE GET?... Fuck his strategy... ITS a STUPID strategy... It won't stop WAR... As a matter of fact it will enbolden them furher to create MORE WAR!..

Rangel is a fucking idiot.. He's the same one with Pelosi who called Chavez a thug..etc..etc.. for saying what the whole world already believes.

[peacetalksforall]

33. I am stuck in the middle. I believe Rangel is being brave on

speaking out about the injustice of serving and being taken out by death or mental and physical syndromes and devestation - even to their future kids. Not many others would have the bravery to do what he did.

As for Chavez. I didn't hear him call C a thug. Don't know the context, but it doesn't sound good. If we need public relations around the issue of the injustice of not having fairness by draft, we also need public relations around Chavez and his stand off with American and European oil company predators who are used to getting their way in Venezuela. Can't endorse the man in total. Can't endorse Rangel in total if he was trying to join the crowd who won't give Chavez a chance to prove what he seems to be - an injustice revolutionary.

Who knows. We are so darn divided - unnecessarily. But, some of this debate will be beneficial. I hope.

[Infinite Hope]

35. Simmer Down...

It seems so many people are more reactionary than rationale. Give stories a moment for the dust to settle and the intent to come out. Further, you didn't give the leadership a chance to say they would not support the bill proposed by Rangel. So many reactionary people....that was the Republican problem too.

[No Exit]

39. I hear you! I have the same problem.

I have 2 boys about the same ages as yours.

I am, needless to say, vehemently opposed to the draft. The idea of my c hildren being killed or maimed in this fraudulent, needless war, is enough to make me sick.

I have never been a religious person, am more of an agnostic than anything else, but every evening--and sometimes during the day--I prayed to God to destroy the two people who are most responsible for inflicting these needless deaths on so many American families. (You know which two people I mean.) Later I toned it down and simply asked God to "smite my enemies".

The really strange thing is, ever since then, bit by bit, God has answered my prayer--most recently, on Nov. 7.

I saw Rangel on a half-hour show, about the end of October, and he explained what he had in mind about his draft bill.

He appeared on the show with a professor who gave a history of the draft.

The professor said (paraphrasing), "I agree with you in principle, but with the current madman we have for president, I wouldn't want to take the chance of actually doing what your bill says. I have two draft-age sons."

Rangel said to him, "Don't worry at all: before the bill were ever to be voted on, it would have to be debated--and the debate would end the war."

He explained further, and I came away feeling very relieved. What he said rang true.

While I still fear for my children, I fear nothing from Charlie Rangel. And I really think the tide is turning FOR US. Don't worry.

[KennedyGuy]

41. I can see your concern..

but I think Rangel will be able to continue to advance the discussion without moving the legislation any further. Few in the democratic party or in the military for that matter support the draft. I don't think anyone should be forced to serve.

[BlueEyedSon]

42. I wish people would knock this off already.

I'm starting to think these threads are being started by trolls.... Rangel has explained himself very clearly, many times, on this issue.

[endarkenment]

44. And gee whiz by golly we continue to think he is very wrong.

So no we will not knock it off.

[BlueEyedSon]

47. Please articulate what you think is wrong with Rangel's stance

[endarkenment]

49. Manipulative, dishonest, and dumb.

Proposing legislation you intend to vote against is manipulative and dishonest. Allowing the bullshit media system to have a field day proclaiming that "Democrats Want to Kill your Sons and Daughters" is dumb.

[BlueEyedSon]

56. Being manipulative, attracting attention and stimulating debate

is brilliant!

[endarkenment]

62. No it isn't its dishonest and manipulative.

I guess I maybe just a wee bit tired of being manipulated and thought that perhaps the Democratic Party ought to be the party that says what they mean and means what they say. Instead I get 'here is my bill to reinstate the draft that I am not going to vote for'. Okay, got it. Want no part of that sort of nonsense, thanks.

And as for the dumb part, you all just keep glossing over how Rangel's brilliant manipulation actually played in the real world. In the real world people woke up monday to their morning news show telling them that the Democratic Party would like to take their sons and daughters and send them to Iraq to get killed. Rangel's clever conceit never made the light of day. It was brilliant all right, in the sense that a light in a closet that is never seen is brilliant.

[BlueEyedSon]

66. Don't speak for me, I woke up monday and read the truth

go be mad at the lying, traitorous media

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. There are two possibilities

Either he thinks a military draft is necessary, or he's using it as the 2 x 4 of coercion. The choices are:
a) militaristic, vindictive, punitive and stupid
b) manipulative, dishonest, politically tone-deaf and stupid

[endarkenment]

75. Exactly.

Couldn't agree more.

[FredStembottom]

77. If people only get one thing from this rant I went on Monday morning........

I hope it's Lumberjack Jeff's calm, concise and perfect summation above.

My thanks and admiration, L.J.!

:thumbsup:

[PVnRT]

45. Fuck Rangel

The second he gives up his little crusade to grind the American youth through the meat grinder to serve his own fucking political ends is the day I might actually give a shit about what he thinks. Or, for that matter, what anyone who agrees with him has to say.

[DuaneBidoux]

55. Debate is not betrayal--reinstating the draft would be.

Don't go crazy over this. There are many who believe that if there had been a draft (from which rich kids couldn't get college deferments) there would never have been Korea, Vietnam, exc. They may be wrong, but why would you throw out all Democrats because of the opinions or proposals of one?

[jgraz]

57. We WON! Let's all relax. Hell, MY kids aren't dying! Pass the turkey

Which is sorta Rangel's point.

[LittleClarkie]

78. But was not what the OP was saying.

He definitely wasn't saying relax and pass the turkey.

[Shadoobie]

59. I have tried to stay out of these arguments...

But, I have to agree with you.

I don't care if Rangel is just doing this to make a point. There are ways to make this backfire. Obviously, no one in their right mind would actually vote for it. It would be political suicide. Republicans could just refuse to vote or even walkout on the discussion of the bill. They can take the "high road" and tell the media they don't want to waste the American People's time and money on a topic that clearly was never meant to pass. They could go on a state that the Democrats continue to have no plan or that their only "plan" is to propose things they know would never pass.

What would the Dems do then?

Greg

[kentuck]

63. Your post defines the seriousness of war....

Or should define the seriousness of war... Your thoughts are the thoughts every American should have, even before their children are threatened with the draft. Just the idea of your children going to war has somehow put a new perspective on the matter?

[KennedyGuy]

65. I think thats what Rangel had in mind..

we should be ever thoughtful of the cost in human lives before we send our fellow Americans into battle. Sadly..this irresponsible Administration has not.

[Lost4words]

68. To all you folks with draft age kids

you might want to pay attention to the job situation in this country. If there are no viable jobs in the USA your children might feel it is worth the risk and join the services on their own just to get a start in life (dosent always work that way). Hopefully there will not be a BFEE phony war going on at the time.
Have you thought of their careers or future? Where will they work? India or China look good. But the USA is in deep decline and our days as a super power are numbered.

This new generation has more to worry about than a reinstatement of the draft. I would ask that for their sake we should not focus so much on this single issue and start looking at the BIG PICTURE.

NO WAR means NO DRAFT

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. Right on. Another thread asked if dem rule is better than shared.

At this point, I honestly don't think so.

I can't f'ing believe it.

Democrats want my continued help? Don't extort me by threatening to draft my kids. I don't need my consciousness raised at their expense.

[FredStembottom]

76. So...why has Rangel done this more than once?

Where does all the confidence come from that no draft could possibly happen?

Could the lame-duck Repubs simply say "Hell, yeah!" to this bill that Rangel just sees as some type of Performance Art? You know, smack the Dems on the way out by using the still current Republican majority to enact the damn thing?

Rangel may fancy himself as merely an Irritant in Residence but why does he keep on doing this dangerous stunt? Why more than once?

Remember how so many Dems voted FOR this war even as MILLIONS around the world marched against it as the stupidest idea ever thought up?

Remember how Democrats of the recent past put some of the Conservative's favorite-est pet projects into effect FOR them? (NAFTA, GATT, FCC Deregulation, Welfare limits, Black box voting, Managed Care, Viet Nam)

And I am supposed to sit calmly as Rangel repeatedly applies the cattle prod to millions of families like mine because "it could never actually happen?"

Stop it, Mr. Rangel. Stunts done in the obscurity take on an entirely different meaning when done while in the majority. Once was enough. Point taken.

[Skittles]

79. please, GET A GRIP

your ideals are easily threatened by one friggin' person? QUIT IT.