Rangel on Face the Nation "I will introduce a bill for the draft"

[AwakeAtLast]

"I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft. To do so is hypocritical."

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!


Hmmmmm....this will get interesting!

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Draft never works. The high and mighty always get out of it somehow.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Exactly! The Dan Quayles and George Bushes will join champagne outfits

that will never be deployed overseas, while the children of the working class go off to war on behalf of the war profiteers.

[AwakeAtLast]

3. That may be true,

but he is right about the hypocrites.

[ClassWarrior]

24. If I recall correctly from the last time Rep. Rangel proposed this...

...his legislation specifically made it difficult for the upper classes to snake out of serving their country.

NGU.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. I don't want difficult. I want impossible.

[ClassWarrior]

27. I want to travel at the speed of light.

:shrug:

By the way, the choice of the word "difficult" was an acknowledgement of your excellent point that snakes have a way of slithering out of things no matter what.

NGU.

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Oh, I knew you were agreeing. :^) Just saying I want to see

justice done. *sigh*

[ClassWarrior]

30. Don't we all?

But we can't let perfection become the enemy of good, and especially not of damn good. Remember, the arc of history is long, but it does bend toward justice.

:toast:

NGU.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. This isn't about perfection for perfection's sake, for me. It's a selfish thing because

all I am looking at is the safety of my kids. ;)

[flordehinojos]

4. i wish rangel would not.

i know he has been talking about the draft for a long time...also pointing out how none of the children of the rich and powerful are serving in the military since the volunteer army was born.

i think he wants to make a point to see how many wars the likes of people like bush might go ahead and start if their kids are in the army and drafted into an immoral, illegal, ilicit invasion/occupation of any country.

but i wish he would not have to make his point by drafting more people into the military.

i do like rangel. i've always liked him. i just hope he wouldn't have to make his point by introducing a draft bill.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. I am scared of the draft, myself. I have 2 kids, young now, but who could

get swallowed up by the war machine in another 10 yrs.

[flordehinojos]

39. war is horrible ...

we should all be working towards peace ... not war. ... may your young kids nor, with God's grace, my grandson who is to be born early next year ever have to go to war.

[springhill]

45. I have a 15-year old,

and I am scare shitless about this. We will take our son somewhere else rather than subject him to endless illegal wars.

[LiberalArkie]

6. It could be written as 2 years national service. The important thing

is, You better be right when you send them to war. Ask Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon. When you send people to die that did not volunteer for war, people can get very pissed off when they find out it is not a just war.

[MichiganVote]

9. Yeah sure. And service with the Nation. Guard=weekends and two wks a year

If you build Washington an army, they will make war somewhere, anywhere, anytime.

[tritsofme]

7. Bad politics, I can see the ads now

"Charles Rangel, chairman of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee wants to bring back the draft..."

The sound reasoning behind the point he's attempting to make gets lost in the backround.

[1monster]

11. The reason it gets lost in the background is that our children are too

precious to use as political chips. I understand Rangel's poiont, but I do not and cannot support his methods.

However unlikely, if a draft were passed, it would be used (especially by an adminsitration like we have now). And my child would be sucked up into it. And my neighbors' children, and my students, and so, so many others.

I'm sorry, Rep. Rangel. Find another way to make your point.

[hughee99]

14. Exactly, IMHO, this is idiotic...

the details of his plan don't really matter since it absolutely will not pass. Rangle may get his vote and get to spend a day or two calling the repukes who voted against it hypocrites. In two years, the repukes will run ads taking about how one of the first acts (and it won't matter if they do it right away or not) of the new Democratic congress was to introduce a bill to reinstate the draft. The short term "gotcha" is not worth the long term headache it will cause.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. He's right -- if you support the war, send YOUR kids! Or go yourself, if

you're not too old.

If you're not willing to see YOUR kids die in Iraq, or lose one or more of their limbs, be paralyzed, etc., then stop supporting the damned war!

[bullimiami]

10. my problem with it is WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE WAR so why would we want

to support a draft at this time or even bring it up.

I think its wrongheaded and it is a no win politically. dems control both houses so dems will be blamed for either its passage or rejection. if it passes dems just gave bush an unlimited reserve of cannon fodder and have possibly signed death warrants for many of our childern, if it does not then democrats will be seen as hypocrites.

it is not right to play politics with our childrens lives.

rangel does not support the war. let him bring up a bill to defund it, that will end it. this is stupid.

[high density]

12. I like Rangel, but...

He seems to be as batshit stupid as Kerry when it comes to dealing with the corporate media. I don't know why he's going to put us through this crazy shit again.

[babylonsister]

13. I see this as getting people to take to the streets to protest the war.

Maybe this will be the straw for Americans to get off their butts, though their votes also proved to make their voices heard.

[Greeby]

15. Last time Rangel brought such a bill up in 2004

It went down 400-2. I don't think you need worry about it's actual passage. This is more to scare the 101st Keyboardist Division

[Virginia Dare]

16. It is the quickest way to end the war...n/t

[A Simple Game]

32. Exactly!

If Rangal's draft were to start on January 1st 2007.

The last soldier would be out of Iraq on December 31st 2006.

It's hard to play war, when the future cannon fodder sits across the table from you!

[loyalsister]

49. I agree

In fact, the IWR should have been accompanied by a draft bill.
The outrage of the idea would have put a stop to that right then.
Beyond that, I think it was irresponsible to allow for entry into a voluntary war with only a reservist army on deck to cover it.
We needed more soldiers than that and they knew it, and that was not what the National guard or the reservists thought they were getting into.
If they were getting drafted that would be different, but in this case the expectation for what their service would entail has been dishonest on so many levels.
We are coming to a point where they need to work on real solutions immediately.
I think Rangel is doing the right thing by encouraging more public pressure on this and future military actions.
We shouldn't get into anything else at all, let alone without realistic expectations.

[tsuki]

17. Rangel is correct. Right now, the war only touches a small

minority of Americans. You cannot show the bodies coming home. M$M is whoring it for their corporate sponsors. Never have so few given so much for so many.

The vast majority are asleep when it comes to the war. They are too busy mobbing each other for playstations. My mother is appalled at the lack of care or sacrifice this nation is exhibiting in time of war. (She's WWII generation.)

With a draft, the impact would be immediate and hit every household. Then you would see people in the streets.

Yes, I have a child that would be affected. Yes, I have been in the streets. And yes, I have wondered where the rest of America is.

[MichiganVote]

18. Actually the war in Iraq is a very personal thing in small towns

since many of the enlistees (per population) are from small enclaves throughout America. These people voted in the last election in pretty high numbers for a mid term election.

[tsuki]

44. Maybe in small town America, but not here. The people here (and

remember that I am from a county that voted for Katherine Harris) have all bought a two-dollar yellow ribbon indulgence from the Republican Party and that is the sum total of their sacrifice for the troops.

I talked with people this election cycle about VA benefits, and you should have heard the answers. It is all about taxes. The answer they most often gave was that this is an all volunteer army and they knew what they were getting into. Why should MY TAXES go to someone to sit on their ass for the rest of their life?

Katina? Taxes. Health care? I got mine, fuck everyone else. And don't even mention the homeless.

I got so turned off that two weeks before the election, I stopped talking to Republicans. And these were not "working class" Republicans. These were the "educated elite." They have a sense of entitlement that is overwhelming.

Nothing matters to them unless it absolutely affects THEM. Time for the rank and file to learn that they are not the 1% elite.

[DemBones DemBones]

48. So true. "Why should I pay school taxes when I don't have any kids in

school?" is something you hear from many people with grown children. BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE HELPED PAY FOR YOUR KIDS' sCHOOLING, FOOL!

The "I got mine, screw everybody else" mentality needs to be eradicated.

[tsuki]

52. Exactly. My husband is Canadian. In the 1960s, he went to trade

school ABSOLUTELY free. In fact, after he passed the entrance exam they paid him a $20.00 a month stipend to help pay for room and board. He finished one year of schooling, passed his test and signed on with a master. Every winter, he went to school for six weeks (presenting his card showing he had worked for a master that year) and they paid him.

After five year, he wrote his inter-provincial license for master plumber.

Why did they do this--all those people who had theirs--because they believed in investing in their country's future. IMAGINE THAT!

[still_one]

22. bullshit, the rich or those with influence still would get out

if you think this will serve a point, you are wrong. THAT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT IT

First of all the Iraq war was based on lies. We should not be in there draft or no draft, THAT IS THE POINT

[mike_c]

19. this is wrong-- the draft is military slavery, involuntary servitude...

...in service of a fascist, expansionist government.

[still_one]

20. Fuck Charlie Rangle

You don't play GAMES with OUR children's lives to prove a point.

and what happens if it passes?

mccain sure wants it, and and know there are quite a few who believe we can win this war if we had more troops

I am sorry, but THIS is NOT the way to get us out of Iraq, and even if he thinks it proves some type of idealistic point, in reality it will shift the focus away from where it should be

[MethuenProgressive]

21. Draft spawn of Bush supporters first.

Use the Patriot Act to learn who supports Bush (keyword siftting of electronic communications)and draft their kids.

[still_one]

23. He is trying to make a point, BUT THE POINT IS WE SHOULD NOT BE THERE

draft or no draft

[beth9999]

37. If that's the case...

... then let him pass legislation to bring the troops home. Calling for a draft, even as a ploy to make a point, is a real bad idea.

Beth

[still_one]

51. you and I are on the same page my friend

[MichiganVote]

53. Welcome Beth and IMO, you are right!

[Warren Stupidity]

25. I really dislike rangel.

And I find his duplicitous grandstanding on the draft vile. Stop threatening my children you bastard!

[Larkspur]

28. Draft Joe Lieberman's kids!!!

I oppose a Draft except for those who support this war based upon lies and for those, like Lieberman, who enthusiastically help lied this nation into war but won't sacrifice their kith and kin to it.

[DianeG5385]

33. My son is 17 and it chills my blood to think of him drafted

My other son, 15, is autistic and as far as I know that is still good for an exemption. I don't want my baby going to fight in this sick war made by a madman. If anything happened to him, I would not be brave, I would never be happy again. I want to see him off to college to have a successful and happy life.

[Finder]

34. A draft would prevent wars of choice like the one in Iraq...

and although I have sons that will all come of age in the next decade, I support this.

I do hope that free college education is linked. I think conscription is good for a(peaceful)nation's youth population.

2 years of training/active duty followed by 4 in reserve while gaining a degree at the gov expense.

[MichiganVote]

35. Standing armies guarantee standing wars

[Finder]

42. Even without a draft we always have a standing army. n/t

[MichiganVote]

43. And we average a war every 8-10 years.

[Larkspur]

36. I don't know if it would prevent them entirely because Bush wasn't

the only President to lie to us to get us into a war. Lyndon Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident and violated this nation's trust in it's leaders. We had a draft then.

The only good a draft will do is increase scrutiny from the American public and if it appears that our leaders are trying to hoodwink us, we would see more street protests against wars.

[Finder]

41. Exactly, scrutiny is what would have prevented the debacle...n/t

[Fleshdancer]

38. I'm really torn up over this one

I understand the argument for bringing back the draft, but damn....the draft??? This sucks. :(

[MichiganVote]

40. The only argument is when and where to begin a withdrawl.

There is no argument about a draft unless we make one. One Congressman does not a draft make.

[Fleshdancer]

47. You're absolutely right

Thank you for reminding me. Sometimes it's so easy to get caught up in every political argument that the big picture gets lost. The only argument is when and where to begin a withdrawl. :thumbsup:

[gulliver]

46. That's going to scare the hell out of lot of people.

And that is a good thing. Rangel is welcoming the fat, dumb, and unhappy American war supporters back to the real definition of war. Had there been an ongoing draft there would have been no war in the first place.

I don't expect it to go anywhere, and I think Rangel probably doesn't either. Is it fair to expect current draft age people to pay for a mistake that was made when the rule was "all volunteer?" Maybe the draft should be reinstituted in peace time.

What we might get out of it is a dose of wake-up juice and some serious discussion of what Bush has done to the all-volunteer military and its people.

[Larkspur]

50. Maybe Rangel's Draft bill is a way to counter McCain's Send-in-more-troops

proposal -- McCain says more troops needed in Iraq http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061119/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

[Az_lefty]

54. If we had the draft right after 911 we wouldn't be Iraq today.