List the candidates by their liberal/progressive records

[blm]

while governing. Include all issues environment vs. corporations, labor vs. corporations, and social issues - civil liberties, flag burning, etc....

Mine, from LEAST corporatist/centrist to MOST corporatist/centrist.

Kerry
Kucinich
Edwards
Dean

Clark has not governed, but, I would put him in the middle based on what I know of his past actions and his plans today.

NOTE: Please use their actual records WHILE governing, and not post campaign rhetoric. It seems some are getting confused.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Kucinich

would have to go on the books as the least corporate/centrist of them all, imho.

[blm]

3. Not by their lifetime liberal ratings.

Kerry has higher ratings than DK in every area except labor where he scores just below DK. I am also factoring in all social issues. DK had a more conservative bent in the 90s, so his current ratings are higher than they used to be.

[jpgray]

2. Mine

Kucinich
Sharpton
Kerry
Dean
Clark
Edwards

Big jump from Sharpton to Kerry, only marginal jumps between the major guys.

[Ninga]

5. Let's see now, which of those

listed ACTUALLY delivered vs. taking a "stand, or voting" on?

Talk is cheep.

Delivering is real.

Signing a bill that has actual results.

vs.

Delivering health care.

But what the heck do I know?

It's the "position taken" stupid, not the actual delivering.

[HFishbine]

4. At the very least, you have Edwards and Dean in the wrong order

1) On Capital Punishment

In an interview with Tim Russert on MTP, Dean explained that, while he used to be against the death penalty under any circumstances, the murder of Polly Klaus and a similar case in Vermont had him reconsider. (1)

He now believes "the death penalty should be available for extreme and heinous crimes, such as terrorism or the killing of police officers or young children. But it must be carried out with scrupulous fairness." (2) (See footnote for further action Dean would take regarding capital punishment.)

This is certainly more progressive than Edwards who voted to pass a bill that would allow children as young as 14 to face the death penalty (3). That bill is now law.

2) On Labor

Edwards twice voted against raising the minimum wage by a mere $1 over three years.(4) He voted to nearly double the number of H-1B visas to allow more foreign workers to enter the country. (5) He also voted to change bankruptcy laws to make it easier for creditors to force debtors into a payment plan. (6)

Dean, on the other hand, supports a myriad of pro-labor positions too numerous to list here. They include card check off for union membership (ask a union person how important that is), signed a bill in Vermont to prohibit permanent replacement of striking workers and would do the same for federal employees, and signed the most sweeping family leave law in the country while governor. (7)

3) On the War

Dean frequently misspoke about being the only candidate to have opposed the war. It was something that made this supporter cringe. However, he was also the only candidate to ever give Kucinich props for his vote against the war on national TV -- on several occasions.

Dean said, time and time again, that he didn't think the evidence at hand supported attacking Iraq. Like Kucinich, Sharpton and Braun, he was among those who never voted for the war.

Edwards, as we know, voted for the war resolution that Kucinich voted against. To this day, he still says that, not only was his vote correct, but that we were right to go to war. He thinks attacking Iraq was the right thing to do.

4) Withdrawing Troops from Iraq

Kucinich and Sharpton are the only candidates who support an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq (within 90 days). None of the candidates however are suggesting we leave a power vacuum. Denise, just like Dean, thinks that the way to get our troops out is to get multi-national forces in and Dean has a very clear and reasonable plan for doing so. (8)

5) Health Care

Only Sharpton and Kucinich favor single-payer health care. The differences between Dean and Edwards are significant. Edwards' proposal would expand health care by mandating that families insure their under-21 children. Those who can afford to purchase coverage through an insurance company will receive tax credits worth roughly $300. Poorer families will be required to pay to enroll their children in CHIPS (a government sponsored child insurance plan). The poorest children, as they are today, will be covered for free. Edwards plan incentivises the purchase of private insurance for children. He offers no solutions for un-insured adults.(9)

Dean's proposal would expand CHIPS to cover people up to age 25 for middle and low income families. Adults who make up to 185% of the poverty level, would also be able to buy into CHIPS. To provide assistance to those who make more than 185% of the poverty level, Dean would create a health system similar to the one offered to federal employees and he'll offer tax breaks to make it more affordable. (10)

It is Dean's plan that offers the broadest coverage. Edwards' plan is more narrow, offers no help to uninsured adults and it would funnel money (by mandate) to insurance companies.

6) Military Spending

Edwards voted to approve Bush's military budget every year he's been in office. (11) Edwards also voted to approve the National Missile Defense System (12) but voted against a bill that would require sanctions against China if they were found to be selling WMD.

Howard Dean pledges to keep our fighting force the most effective in the world, but he is clearly against the development of "battlefield" "bunker busting" or "low yield" nuclear weapons (13)(Edwards? Since he voted for Bush't miliatry bugets, he must favor them).

Dean also would actively seek to make the use of military force obsolete by asserting America's role in the world as a peaceful nation. He would seek to strengthen international alliances and repair damaged relations. He rejects the notion of pre-emptive war (which Edwards embraces to this day) as anything but a last resort and only when absolutely necessary to secure our country. (14)

We haven't even touched on the issues of civil liberties and GLBT rights, on which there are also marked differences between Dean and Edwards, but any honest look at the facts will clearly show that on principles and policies, Dean is far closer to Kucinich than Edwards.




1) http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/~gabriel/dean2004blog/Dean_MTP_June_22_2003.htm

2) http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_capitalpunishment

3) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=2264&can_id=CNC68243

4) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=2644&can_id=CNC68243

5) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=2915&can_id=CNC68243

6) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=2658&can_id=CNC68243

7) http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_labor

8) http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_policy_foreign_iraq_7pointplan

9) http://www.johnedwards2004.com/healthcare-children.asp

10) http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_health

11) http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=CNC68243

12) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=2187&can_id=CNC68243

13) http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_policy_foreign_issue_nuclearweapons

14) http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_foreign

[blm]

8. Wrong. I said WHILE GOVERNING. Not campaign rhetoric.

Dean doesn't come close to Edwards on civil liberties.

[HFishbine]

10. I offered

plenty of examples of positions "while governing." Of course if you have something of substance to refute my facts, I'm sure it will be forthcoming shortly.

[HFishbine]

6. Dean also more progressive than Edwards on GLBT issues

Background

DEAN: As Governor, Howard Dean signed Vermont's landmark civil union legislation. The law grants gay and lesbian couples the same basic legal rights as married couples.

EDWARDS: John Edwards has been a Senator in North Carolina since 1999.

Employment Non-Discrimination:

DEAN: Howard Dean promises to fight for the enactment of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA).

EDWARDS: Edwards supports a federal bill that would outlaw job discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Gender Identity Employment:

DEAN: Dean supports passage of a federal bill to outlaw discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and expression.

EDWARDS: Edwards is undecided on a federal bill to outlaw workplace discrimination based on gender identity and expression.

Hate Crimes:

DEAN: Dean supports the inclusion of sexual orientation and gender identity in Federal Hate Crimes Law. Currently laws do not include gender identity or sexual orientation, but do include race, religion and national origin.

EDWARDS: Edwards supports expanding federal Hate Crimes Law to include sexual orientation.

Same-Sex Marriage:

DEAN: Dean opposes same-sex marriage, but thinks the federal government should recognize legal unions created by states and other countries.

EDWARDS: Edwards opposes same-sex marriage, but he does not think the Constitution should be amended to define marriage as between a man and a woman.

Family Medical Leave:

DEAN: Dean supports extending the Family Medical Leave Act to domestic partners and their children.

EDWARDS: Edwards is undecided on extending Family Medical Leave Act to same-sex couples.

Same-Sex Immigration:

DEAN: Dean supports the Permanent Partners Immigration Act (H.R. 832) which would allow American citizens to sponsor their same-sex partner for immigration into this country.

EDWARDS: Edwards is undecided on legislation that would allow American citizens to sponsor their same-sex partners for immigration into the country.

Gay and Lesbian Adoption:

DEAN: Dean supports same-sex adoption.

EDWARDS: Edwards supports giving same-sex couples the same rights to adopt children as heterosexual couples.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell:

DEAN: Dean supports the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" which would allow gay, lesbian and bisexual soldiers to serve openly in the military

EDWARDS: Edwards supports the rights of gays, lesbians and bisexuals to serve openly in the United States Military.


Source: Lesbian Life

[blm]

9. NOT Campaign rhetoric HF...ACTUAL governance records, please.

That was the whole point, to get AWAY from rhetoric and stick to what they did WHILE GOVERNING.

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. Neither Kerry nor Edwards, e.g., ever 'governed'.

Not in any literal sense; the question itself is flawed.

[HFishbine]

12. "Howard Dean signed Vermont's landmark civil union legislation"

Umm, Dean did that "while governing." Do you have any examples that refute what I've offered?

[Cuban_Liberal]

7. No, thanks.

I have better things to do than waste my time writing some ridiculous compare/contrast essay.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

13. The political compass chart: Kerry, Clark, Dean, Lieberman, Edwards

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/usprimaries.html

[AP]

14. Biggest threat to corporate hegemony: Ku, Ed........Ke, Cl, Dean.

[corporatewhore]

16. I heard something like Edwards is against NAFTA ithink that is great!!!

[corporatewhore]

15. you are wrong and how it all comes down to one issue

John kerry's record he voted for
our jobs to move overseas
slavery
a bill of rights for big agribusiness
spreading of genetically modified franken foods
privatisation of public services like water
the theft of land of indigenous people
the rape of land
all on a global level when he voted for WTO/NAFTA/IMF/GATT etc etc
you see what is overlooked is free trade encoompasses every thing progressives are supposed to be against it is so oppressive that the people in bolivia took upon an armed revolution tostop it
If youve ever read noam chomsky you would understand

[corporatewhore]

17. i just want to add that it aint just progressives who are concerned

[lcordero]

18. hehe *high five*

:D

[HFishbine]

19. kick

:kick: