What the HELL happened to Lou Dobbs?

[Stinky The Clown]

I'm watching his show as I type this. I haven't seen it in *at least* a year ...... probably longer. Actually, it goes back to when CNN canned Aaron Brown ..... when was that?

Anyway .... wow ..... he sounds like a Democrat! A conservative Democrat, but surely a Democrat. I know he's a Republic, but geeze. He sounds like he's channeling selectively from FDR, Huey Long and Richard Daley.

Stood up for and praised/endorsed by his own comments to stories the Dem winners in the last election.

Talked about the election irrgularities in Sarasota County and the missing 18,000 votes saying, essentially, there's no fucking way there were 18,000 undervotes.

On immigration he was a mixed bag ....

But overall, he was free with praise for the Dems.

Story on Rumsfeld coming up now .....

[inthebrain]

1. He's a right wing asshole

He'd fit right in with the KKK.

[skooooo]

4. Maybe, but overall I think his voice has helped people wake up.

He's not perfect, but he's said a lot of things that needed to be said regarding government and the middleclass.

[Ignacio Upton]

17. I think he has done a lot in getting conservatives to abandon Bush

He attacks Bush on certain issues that paleo-conservatives won't listen to us on, such as immigration, even if Dobbs is wrong about that issue.

[silverojo]

18. Dobbs isn't wrong about that issue

Laws are laws, and they should be enforced. Period.

[Ignacio Upton]

19. I agree on that

But I don't like the fact that he quotes bullshit statistics from the Heritage Foundation to make his point.

[inthebrain]

23. Kinda like Jim Crowe

eh?

They shoulda thrown Rosa Parks in the slammer for life!!!!

Seriously.

Lou Dobbs is more interested in dividing labor as millions of poor folk congregating tends to scare the shit out of him. He offers nothing that anyone can find worthwhile to create a movement with. His stances on immigration are at odds with the Unions and labor organizers.

Last I checked, Lou Dobbs doesn't have a union card in his back pocket.

[MGD]

31. What's wrong with enforcing immigration laws?

They shoulda thrown Rosa Parks in the slammer for life!!!!

Rosa parks was a U.S. citizen. There's really no comparison unless you wish to argue from a post-conventional universal ethical principle which really has no place in this argument so long as countries continue to have borders IMO. While it might be nice if there were no such thing as countries, the fact remains, there are. So long as this remains true, a nation has a right to police its borders.

[inthebrain]

37. Rosa Parks was a second class citizen

Kinda how "illegals" are talked about on this board. There is very much a comparison. Especially when you assume laws are laws and above scrutiny.

Oddly nobody cares much when wealthy folk cross those borders. I guess when it's poor folk that's a different story.

[MGD]

38. Illegals aren't even second class citizens. They aren't citizens at all. That's the difference. eom

[beaconess]

44. "Illegal" is an adjective, not a noun

That is part of the problem with the Lou Dobbsian type of demonization. People are not "illegals." Some people may be here illegally or have illegal status, but calling people "illegals" is the type of divisive rhetorical tactic perfected by the right wing. We haven't bought into their attempts to force "Democrat Party" or "homicide bomber" or "death tax" into the American lexicon. Don't let them suck you into this one.

[MGD]

46. Illegal aliens aren't even secnd class citizens. They aren't citizens at all. That's this difference

Is that batter then?

[beaconess]

47. Yes, thank you.

[inthebrain]

52. Neither were blacks during Jim Crowe

The analogy fits.

Unless you're saying Rosa Parks was a full citizen as that time and had the same voting rights as whites and the laws allowed her to sit in that seat.

Let's not even get into how the Fed Gov turned it's back on thise that hung Blacks from trees and local police who cut deals with the KKK.

I suppose that your idea of a full citizen. Second class citizens are not condidered citizens.

[MGD]

55. Legally they were.

Unless you're saying Rosa Parks was a full citizen as that time and had the same voting rights as whites and the laws allowed her to sit in that seat.

She was a full citizen under the law and had been since 1865. And by she I mean all African Americans. It just took 100 years for the south to finally comply with the post-civil war realities. It's an ugly chapter in our history, one of many to be sure. The fact remains, however, that your analogy is seriously flawed on several levels. Nobody is hanging hispanics from trees; nobody is burning them alive; nobody is executing their leaders; nobody is even telling them they have to ride in the back of the bus.

Let's not even get into how the Fed Gov turned it's back on thise that hung Blacks from trees and local police who cut deals with the KKK.

As I said, that isn't happening to Hispanics. As such, your analogy is flawed. Your argument belongs in a thread about southern atrocities perpetrated against African Americans, not in a thread about Lou Dobbs/border security/immigration reform.

"I suppose that(sic) your idea of a full citizen. Second class citizens are not condidered citizens."

There is only one class of citizen in my mind though I'm sure others would disagree. Tell me, do you consider a felon to be equal to a devout baptist minister in his/her citizenship? How about a skinhead? As I said, an illegal alien isn't even a second class citizen as an illegal alien IS NOT A U.S. CITIZEN OF ANY CLASS.

[inthebrain]

63. YOur saying that people don't beat on immigrants?

Your completely out of touch. What do you think those minutemen folk are up to on the border?

I never said that people hung them from trees. Did anyone hang Rosa Parks?

Illegal Immigrants are not afforded equal protection under the laws. That's the problem as was the same with Jim Crowe. As a matter of fact, it's the laws that contribute to their status. Not to mention that the immigration process alone costs more than $5,000.

Lets not be silly and act as if the laws are divine. It's funny that you mention felons. We have more African Americans in Jail in this country than South Africa did under Apartheid. That should give you a good barometer as to where we are headed in the scapegoating department.

Many folks talk about NAFTA being apart of the problem. Wanna explain how a tightened boarder and wall building is going to reduce the problem realisitcly. The majority of Americans mirro that of the labor unions in this country which is shocking considering the hooplah Dobb's has created on this issue. Lou Dobb's has no clue how to raise wages. Unions do!!!!!

[MGD]

64. Not in any kind of disproportional sense.

"Your completely out of touch. What do you think those minutemen folk are up to on the border?"

Not much of anything really. They radio in to the border patrol and assist primarily in a observational capacity. There has never been a single report of them comitting acts of violence against aliens or coyotes to my knowledge. The reverse is not true.

"I never said that people hung them from trees. Did anyone hang Rosa Parks"

You used the violence committed against African Americans in America as justification for your poor analogy.

"Lets not be silly and act as if the laws are divine. It's funny that you mention felons. We have more African Americans in Jail in this country than South Africa did under Apartheid. That should give you a good barometer as to where we are headed in the scapegoating department."

Strawman. This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

"Lou Dobb's has no clue how to raise wages. Unions do!!!!!"
Inviting millions of aliens into our country as full citizens is your idea of how to increase wages? Please explain to me how that works.

[inthebrain]

69. One of the founders of the minutemen

was picked up by the police for gettin medievil on them. Not once, but twice!!!!

I didn't use violence per se for the analogy. That's lazy on your part. I used violence as an example of second class citizenship. Perhaps you want to take a look at the SLPC website when you have the time. Acts of violence against immigrants are at an incline right now and so is white nationalist recruiting. Neo Nazi recruitment has tripled.

A lot of it can be attributed to who Lou Dobbs gives airtime to.

Here's an honest question for ya, If Lou Dobbs is not a bigot or a racist, who is?

[MGD]

70. How many illegal aliens have been "picked up" for perpetrating their own acts of violence?

Like I said, nothing disproportional.

"Acts of violence against immigrants are at an incline right now and so is white nationalist recruiting. Neo Nazi recruitment has tripled. A lot of it can be attributed to who Lou Dobbs gives airtime to."

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. It is just as logical to assert that acts of violence against illegal aliens are on the incline because there are proportionally more illegal aliens today.

"Here's an honest question for ya, If Lou Dobbs is not a bigot or a racist, who is?"

I'm disinclined to answer that question directly because it seems pointless and baiting. I will tell you this however, I for one wouldn't care if our southern neighbors were Swedish, German, Irish, English, Japanese, Chinese, Italian, or French, I still wouldn't want them taking up residence in my country illegaly and especially NOT TENS OF MILLIONS OF THEM. To me, this is purely a matter of economics, it has nothing to do with race and I firmly believe it is the same for Lou Dobbs and the majority of Americans who support a position similar to Lou's. It is unfortunate that Mexicans have to be Mexican because it inevitably leads to people like you playing a race card where it is wholly inappropriate.

[inthebrain]

75. This isn't a "fair and balanced" situation

I suppose you'd even support Gitmo and the presidents use of torture. Afterall, they shoot at our troops so beating prisoners is ok.

Yeesh!!!

______________________________________________________________________________________________________
"What can I do for you?" asks the wiry, nervous, yet folksy Chris Simcox, the leader and founder of the Minutemen volunteer border patrol when I visited late last summer. After my local guides let him know we were there to ask him about his Minuteman work, his jean and tee-shirtclad body, his baseball-capped head and entire being seemed suddenly to move to the beat of media personality mode; he swaggers into the tour of the home of the Tombstone Tumbleweed, one of the main papers in this former miners settlement, which he was soon to sell. These days, tourists keep their economy pumping with a fascination with the hallowed gunfight that took place just around the corner. The Tumbleweed also doubled as the command center of a movement whose members trace their gun-wielding brand of frontier justice to Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday and other heroes of the OK Corral, a movement that has garnered media attention far beyond the 1,200 person circulation (Tombstone's population is 1,504) of California-born Simcox's successful newspaper.

He begins the walk-through by pointing at several snapshots on a wall of Latino immigrants tied up and looking like nervous chickens I've seen in crowded, colorful markets they left in the poorer, war-ridden parts of Mexico and Central America.

"Those are pictures of some of the illegals we caught and handed over to immigration," says Simcox, as if proudly displaying the deer heads adorning more than a few of the homes in the gun and Harleyheavy Tombstone ("The Town Too Tough to Die").

Some civil rights organizations report that the Minutemen have pistol-whipped and, perhaps, even shot, migrants they encounter.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v19n3/lovato_fringe.html


Amazing what happens after an election win. You folks go just as right as the Republicans. Yet, most people laugh when voters complain they see no difference between the parties.

[beaconess]

43. THANK you!

[Unvanguard]

57. "Is" does not imply "ought"

The fact that national governments do make arbitrary distinctions based on lines drawn on maps does not mean that they should.

Rosa Park's citizenship is irrelevant; what matters is that she was mistreated, and mistreatment, legal or illegal, should be resisted.

The same applies to illegal immigrants

[MGD]

68. No offense but that's a crock of shit. eom

[Unvanguard]

56. So Blacks shouldn't have used civil disobedience against segregation?

Sorry, unjust laws have no legitimacy.

[gully]

59. What about unjust pay?

THAT is the issue.

[Unvanguard]

60. Indeed.

Now tell me why I should be more concerned with the unjust pay of workers born in the US than the unjust pay of workers born in Mexico.

[gully]

61. You shouldn't, however creating an atmosphere where people will work

for peanuts sans benefits does NO ONE any good. We need to address illegal immigration and the employers who make the choice to exploit people.

[Unvanguard]

62. The immigrants come the US because the situation here

for better or for worse, is better than the situation they would face in the countries from which they come, which tend to have even worse labor laws and unemployment benefits than the US.

It follows that restricting immigration (which is what enforcing the laws against illegal immigration amounts to) would merely enable the exploitation of workers in Mexico.

The best solution would be serious reform of the economic system (preferably its overthrow, but I digress), but that is not on the table.

[gully]

74. And, by coming here they compete with US workers who are not highly

educated and are in need of good paying jobs with benefits etc. As for exploiting workers in Mexico, that's already the case. We do need limits/restrictions, and we need to go after predatory employers as a means to an end.

Adding, as Americans we elect OUR government, we are to determine OUR fate. We need to worry about strengthening our workforce before we can reach out to others and say "let us help you."

When we allow unchecked immigration from a group of desperate people who will work for 50 cents sans benefits and leave employers to their own devices, Americans compete for jobs in that climate. You can see how that effects our economy/country no?

[Unvanguard]

76. And if they stayed there they would compete with Mexican workers.

Workers who are more exploited than workers here, and who have access to fewer options.

I don't subscribe to any notion of priority. I am a human being, and a citizen of the world; that is my loyalty, not to the artificial creations of national power structures, and I see no reason to make the distinction between supporting exploited workers here and supporting exploited workers there.

[gully]

58. Bologna

I know white racists, and just because he doesn't want an easily exploited work force does not mean that he's "KKK" material.

[Mr_Spock]

66. Your hateful rhetoric is a lie

He does not even claim to be a Republican any more and has aligned himself 90% with Dem causes. I agree with him on almost every issue with the exception of immigration where I find his position to be dense and just plain wrong.

[goclark]

2. Two sides to his mouth nt

[skooooo]

3. He's had several new themes in the last 8 months or so...

...There was his "broken government" series right before the election. Had to like that.

Then there is his mantra of the middle class being under attack which was good.

After that, he goes the way of Pat Buchanen regarding immigration. Those two are complete xenophobes.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Middle class ..... he sounded like a real populist Democrat on that.

[spooky3]

9. even if some DUers disagree with some of his positions

I like the fact that he has been so vocal and consistent in speaking out about many issues, when most of the rest of his colleagues are chuckling about the latest cute animal or runaway bride story.

[skooooo]

15. I agree...

Lou's not perfect, but few people are.

[dae]

49. David Sirota just did a review of his book and had some

pretty good things to say about it. He knocked him hard on issues like immigration but overall he he said Dobbshas changed a lot of views in the past couple of years. You may want to go to s
Sirota's blog: www.davidsirota.com/ and read more about him.

[spooky3]

8. I think LD's angle is that uncontrolled illegal immigration

is undermining the middle class by providing unfair wage competition and burdening health care and educational systems beyond whatever positive tax effect is produced when illegal immigrants pay taxes. These positions do have some empirical support. I think he is also concerned about security threats from the failure to enforce current laws. He may also be xenophobic (I don't watch him often enough to form an opinion about that) and he often dismisses Democrats as being equally culpable with Rethugs when they clearly are not (see http://mediamatters.org for examples). But there are very good reasons for him to hold some of the views he has.

[beaconess]

42. LD's angle is that demagoguing uncontrolled illegal immigration is making him rich and famous

Uncontrolled illegal immigration is a problem in this country. But it doesn't merit the kind of ranting and raving and 24/7 obsession that Lou Dobbs gives it. He has mastered the art of the perfect demagogue: seize on an issue that has some validity - preferably one that provides offers up easily-identifiable human scapegoats to draw the attention and ire of the masses away from their real problems - couch it in populist terms that make one appear to be all about the people, and then hammer it to death until it really becomes all about him, not the issue at hand.

Lou Dobbs' approach is masterful, but it's also dangerous. His concern about illegal immigration was probably genuine at one point, but he has ramped up this phony outrage to a fever pitch that has enabled him to parlay his limited journalistic talents into a cottage industry that's all Lou Dobbs all the time. Unfortunately, his wide swath doesn't only impact illegal immigration - he also encourages (and, in some instances, aligns himself with) the nastiest, most hateful kind of race-baiting, immigrant-bashing, xenophobia in order to advance his personal crusade.

And CNN gives its real-life Howard Beale all the rope he needs, but I'm tired of seeing hour after hour of crusading diatribes masquerading as news programming (how many hours a day is Lou Dobbs on the airwaves everyday either as a host or a guest?).

His 15 minutes was up an hour ago, but, unfortunately, he has so many people fooled with his "it's time for answers" crap that it doesn't seem that he's going away any time soon.

He makes me sick.

[DemBones DemBones]

72. Anyone with his own cable news show is already fairly rich and famous.

Lou Dobbs talks about a lot of issues that no one else on cable does. You may disagree with him about illegal immigration but how do you feel about outsourcing of American jobs? CEOs earning something like 270 times what a typical employee does? the middle class beinf destroyed? foreign countries controlling American ports? Dobbs speaks out against all those issues.

[Digit]

35. At 6pm, I tune into Lou Dobbs

Yes, he has been very vocal about the middle class being under attack, hammering the message out over and over.

[Leilani]

6. He is an Independent

& has said so MANY times.

He, more than anyone in the media, has championed American workers rights, railed against "free trade".

He has also been the most outspoken on electronic voting.

He is against illegal immigration, but is not anti-immigrant. He wants LEGAL immigration.

FYI, he grew up poor & worked in California's agricultural fields to put himself through school.

[jonnywishbone97]

7. Lou is GREAT

I enjoy his editorials.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. "FYI, he grew up poor & worked in California's agricultural fields to put himself through school."

I didn't know that. Thanks! It explains some of what I'm seeing.

One thing I have always liked about him is his sense of politeness and decorum. I recall clearly that he never allowed much hyperbole and always demands his guests who might get into a debate conduct themselves as gentlepersons.

[grasswire]

28. I do like that, too

He is ever a gentleman. And even when vexed to the point of a bit of sputtering, he always tries to inform the viewer.

[gully]

29. Independents are what we need MORE of in the media.

I expect Dobbs will keep Dems honest as well.

[Auntie Bush]

73. We need more posts like that. One without the vitriol!

[tulsakatz]

10. he's been doing that for a long time.........

I've been watching him for a couple of years now.

I don't agree with everything he says but I do agree with a lot of what he says......mostly about voting machines and the war on the middle class.

[jonnywishbone97]

11. I agree with that and with what he says about illegals.

if you dont get here legally GET THE FUCK OUT

[citizen snips]

13. I agree with him on immigration

he continually points out how the right wing Mexican government refuses to help the working class.

[Leilani]

14. Lou Dobbs was the first person to rally

against the Dubai ports deal...he gave it so much attention, it became a national issue.

He has also spoken out against selling off our infrastructure, as the state of Indiana sold it's highway to a foreign country.

Deficits, are also another cause. Along with free trade, we have enabled China to own us financially.

People slam Lou about illegal immigration, but his views taken together, all represent a pro-American worker populism.

[KayLaw]

16. He's like my father and his friends.

He's a bit too much "establishment" for me, but I think he's moral and anchored, as well.

[orpupilofnature57]

20. He's Aristotle compared to the likes of Blabba O'phigh-ley ,at least lou

has a premise.

[seasat]

21. Dobbs is a model for appeal to Southerners

Now, I definitely don't agree with some of his stands and he tends to shift positions based on populist sentiment, but he does appeal to that old yellow dog Democrat group in rural areas. My father in law is a yellow dog. He idolized Bill Clinton and religiously watches Lou Dobbs. If we followed some of Dobb's stances in campaigns in the SE, then we might start making some inroads in these red areas. I believe that is what Dean was talking about when he says he wants to appeal to the voters with rebel flags on the back of their pickups.

[beaconess]

22. He's a bigoted demagogue whos fake populism is making him rich and famous

[Auntie Bush]

24. NO WAY!!! He's been great for our cause and

has worked hard alerting the country about the ILLEGAL immigration problem and fighting for workers getting a living wage. For the life of me...I don't know why so many on DU don't like him. If you don't, listen to him once in awhile and you'll understand. He's the real thing!

PS He also can't stand bush* or this war...what more do you want?

[inthebrain]

25. I agree

The KKK and Neo Nazis love him!!!

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MGD]

32. So does this Ohio Democrat.

eom

[citizen snips]

27. why?

[MGD]

33. Bullshit. Border enforcement is not tantamount to bigotry.

[CK_John]

30. He got the memo from Rupert , "Always go with winner" n/t

[sabbat hunter]

41. incorrect.

Dobbs works for CNN and not faux, so he couldnt have possibly gotten a memo like you insinuate.

Dobbs is right on immigration. we need to stop illegal immigration. Go after the businesses that hire them. Increase legal immigration (so they will be paying all their taxes as will their employers).

[RamboLiberal]

34. While I don't agree with him 100% of the time I give him some

credit for a lot of the wins we got in Red States.

On immigration - I do think he has some bad guests on this - but he has some points as well. For one I'd like to see the Mexican government doing more to stem the illegal flow of their citizens to this country. They need to find ways of providing good paying jobs to their citizens.

Also there is a huge problem just over the border with drug trade and much of Mexican law enforcement and military being infiltrated by the drug lords or powerless to stop it. It's a threat to the U.S.

We do need a crackdown on U.S. employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens. And you can bet it's so they can pay low wages and in many cases have dangerous/shoddy working conditions.

I think our trade agreements like CAFTA have hurt workers on both sides of the border.

Does he dwell too much on illegal immigration - YES. But there are other good points to his daily show.

I like that Lou highlights and reports on how "homeland" security has been shafted and compromised by the Bush admin and Repuke congress.

Lou has a very populist stance on the middle class getting shafted. And he's one of the few reporting on this issue.

He was the first to consistently report on the perils of electronic voting. And note late in the game the rest of the MSM started reporting on it. I think that perhaps it gave the Repukes pause and perhaps they knew they couldn't blatantly hijack this election. And the Dem congress damn well better fix this before '08.

And he has some of the more intelligent panel discussions on the air. I even like Republican Ed Rollins who's not afraid to talk about the admin or republican shortcomings.

I think Tweety could take a few lessons from Lou. Talk about the substantive issues and not about the trivial crap Tweety spouts.

While Faux is declining Lou's show has gone up in ratings.

[Generic Brad]

36. Lou Dobbs has never pretended to be perfect

There are some issues I find him woefully ignorant on (on Friday I heard him endorsing John Bolton as our permanent U.N ambassador). And on others, especially his "Heroes" and "War on the Middle Class" reports I find myself nodding in agreement with him.

There is not one media talking head who is or ever will be perfect -- Olbermann included. My gut tells me Lou truly cares about this country so it is difficult for me to write him off as a simple minded racist.

And before anyone accuses me of being a bigot you need to be aware that I am married to a foreign national who agrees with Lou Dobbs on immigration issues even more than I do. Not every preconception fits neatly into the same box.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

39. That asshole followed the Republican spin on Kerry's comments

So either he's a complete moron, or he is a liar, or he is too lazy to research his own stories. Yes, no one is perfect and yes we are all entitled to our opinions. However, his lie here was NOT a mistake and it was NOT an opinion. He misrepresented fact.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200611010004

[Vinca]

40. Keep listening to Lou.

He's doing a good job on voting and the middle class, but every so often he sends a zinger to the Dems. I've also noticed since the election the tone of the program has been shifting to blaming the Dems. for everything, even though we aren't in control yet.

[JNelson6563]

45. He's a paleo-con

The old school conservative, where they actually had some manners and were capable of considering ideas other than their own.

Julie

[Doctor_J]

48. Exactly

He, Buchanan, Alex Jones, etc. detest the neo-cons for their interventionism, spendaholism, globalism (economic), and belicosity. And then when Smirk waffled on immigration, the last few of them lost their last hope that * had anything in common.

[philb]

50. He got tired of the corruption and incompetance of the Admin.

[bluedigger]

51. Dobbs is allright...

I don't always agree with him, or anyone else, for that matter, but I fail to see where he's a racist or bigot for promoting the enforcement of existing immigration laws. As for his sincerity and motivations, well, CNN isn't an NPO, it's objective is to make profits through increased ratings and advertising sales. When Lou stops achieving those goals, he'll be gone, as will Keith at MSNBC. He does bring many voices to the debate, some good, some poor, but at least he gives them a chance to make their case. And he's upfront about his own opinions/biases, in the main. His persistence in keeping the immigration debate active can get tiresome, I'll admit, but it must be a service to the body politic. I usually only watch the first half of his program before he climbs on his hobby horse, and then switch to the traditional news programs.

[Odin2005]

53. He's an Independent IIRC, not a Puke.

Oh, and since when is pointing out that illegal immigrants ARE NOT citizens racist? If you are not a citizen or legal resident you are not supposed to be living in this country.

[Greyhound]

54. Dobbs is one of those OG Republicans that is an American first.

He has been the (nearly) lone voice, years before any other big media would touch it, talking about how badly NAFTA and the H-1(b)/L-1 visa programs were hurting workers on both sides and what a bad idea globalization is.

I disagree with him frequently but respect his opinions.

[Mr_Spock]

65. He's been like this for a while

Called a leftist now by conservatives. On a talk show he completely distanced himself from his Republican roots - he IS a Democrat im my opinion based on his very recent comments.

[BlueStateBlue]

67. He refers to himself as an Independent. I've been watching his show on

and off since before 9/11, and I distinctly remember that he used to refer to himself as a Republican. Things change...

[BoneDaddy]

71. Dobbs is pretty fair

He has his achilles heel which is immigration where he sounds like a total right winger, but he addressed voter fraud, the death of the middle class and was very vehement against Bush, so you may not like some of his positions but he was pretty helpful this past election and was one of the first media personalities to jump on Bush when it was not attractive to do so.

I can take him or leave him.