What if Kerry picks a centrist like Bayh or Bill Richardson?

[Armstead]

Have heard among the possible VP picks the names Evan Bayh or Gov. Bill Richardson.

(Richardson says he's not interested, but if asked....)

The thought of either of these two -- or anyone like them -- as VP makes my skin crawl. Not that they're bad guys. But they reprresent the "corporate, non-populist wing of the Democratic Party."

Richardson, especially would bother me. Sure he's a Hispanic, but he's the type of Democrat that would be a moderate Republican in anotehr era.

If it's going to be Kerry, I'd prefer to see him be bold -- or at least give a nod to the liberal/progressives -- and run with someone credible and populist. Maybe sopmeone like Tom Harken, Jan Schiakovski or Barbara Lee .

I just think it would be a real shame if after all of the fuss and feathers -- and the fresh air -- of Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton and Clark, and the general debate for the future we end up with a lackluster centrist ticket that avoids all of the core issues after all is said and done.

[BurtWorm]

1. That's funny. I just posted something in favor of Richardson.

Asking for drawbacks. I don't know much about him except that he was one of the architects of the Clinton North Korea policy, which had a lot more going for it than the Bush one. But I'm open to arguments against him.


PS: I'm 100% opposed to Bayh or any other vanilla bread Democrat from the Senate.

[Armstead]

8. Richardson is DLC/New Democrat

Ir depends on how you view that whether it is a plus or minus.

Like I said, he's a good guy, but in the classic New Democrat mold. I just think we need something different than that at this point.

[BurtWorm]

14. Howard Dean was DLC, but clearly not now.

I think there was a point when DLC was de rigueur among certain rising stars in the party. But I wouldn't take membership alone to be a disqualifier. I would need to see more evidence of creeping Fromism, or Liebermanism or Bayhism.

[Armstead]

22. Richardson is big time DLC now

Was New Democrat of the Week in August 03
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251963&kaid=104&subid=116

Excerpt:

New Mexico's investment in itself has also brought a new group of supporters into the state party. "Business... is becoming increasingly Democratic," Richardson said in Philadelphia.

"We should be proud to be the moderate party of sound economic management and fiscal responsibility and a friend of the economic engines -- the businesspeople of this country."

[gate of the sun]

68. YOu don't want Richardson

he's my Governor and I don't like him....recently he was cutting the budget and he wanted to cut the executive committee that watched over his spending meanwhile trying to bring in a bunch of people under his entrourage....luckily it was vetoed. This is the way Richardson works. He hasn't helped our state....I would be seriously sick if on top of voting for Kerry I had to include Richardson in the vote.

[BurtWorm]

71. Nuff said.

Thank you and revcarol for educating me! :toast:

[politick]

16. Bayh is BORRING

and if the main thing Kerry has going against him is that he is BORRING, than why pick someone else who is BORRING. I will be pissed off if they resort to that kind of pedestrian BS>

Edwards would be okay, b/s he is such a fresh face, and he actually seems to have emotion and fire, unlike Kerry. Harken may be a bit too old, Gephardt doesn't deserve it (though that's probably his angle in endorsing Kerry), but I don;t know who to go with. Locke isn't a bad choice. They need a woman or someone who is not stale and white.

What happened to the party of Inclusion?!

[ShaneGR]

37. Yeah, I'd be happy with Richardson, but Bayh would not stand

We all know who I think is going to be VP. :-)

[dsc]

2. I would demand a full releasing of all health records of Kerry

if Byah were the VP. From a gay rights perspective Byah is Zell Miller without the accent. He is equally bad on a whole host of issues. Unless Kerry could convince me there was literally no chance he would get ill during his term I couldn't vote for that ticket.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Bayh voted to restrict abortions rights as Governor and as Senator

As Governor, Bayh signed a law that required women to see pictures of aborted fetuses before they could have an abortion. Bayh did not veto the bill despite the fact that his veto would have been upheld by the General Assembly.

Bayh would rather wear latex gloves before shaking hands with a gay person.

[dsc]

5. His record is bad on that

I had no idea what his abortion record was. My other specific problems are his tax votes and his general conservative outlook on appointees.

[BurtWorm]

6. Didn't we have an airhead conservative VP from Indiana already?

No thanks to another one!

[Johnyawl]

11. lol! good one Burt!

No state should be allowed to provide two airhead VPs. We've got 50 states to choose airheads from.

[Indiana Democrat]

12. Evan Bayh is a very good man.

And a very good Democrat.

[IndianaGreen]

19. He is neither!

Birch Bayh was as great a Senator as his son Evan has been a failure!

[Forkboy]

25. I was waiting to see a sarcasm tag or something on this post

It's pretty funny as is though.

[dsc]

38. He might be a great person

but I don't vote for people who won't stand up for me. I deserve the full measure of rights not just what few ones Bayh may decide to give me.

[salin]

45. There are many hoosier democrats

who have grown increasingly dissillusioned with Bayh has he lurched even further past the middle since Bush was elected.

[NNN0LHI]

77. He did seem more moderate a few years ago now that you mention it n/t

[Terwilliger]

3. Dems may decide that a little Latin flava may be the ticket

given the growing strength of the Southwest

For that, of course, he should pick J Lo for VEEP, though I don't know her positions on anything ;-)

If Kerry takes this nomination, his VEEP choice will be extremely telling, as was Gore's choice 4 years ago.

[Indiana_Dem]

24. If they want to learn anything from the Gore/Lieberman

ticket, they should not pick Bayh as VP. Lieberman would be better than Bayh.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. Why not Evan Bayh of the DLC?

Most of the Democratic officials are in the DLC aren't they? We have to reach out to swing voters. We have to be pro-war (strong on defense). That's Bayh.

He also thinks unions should be a thing of the past, that they are a burden on our economy, and that corporations should be less regulated. Strong free-trader, pro-NAFTA, pro-GATT, pro-offshoring jobs.

Evan Bayh represents what the Democratic Party truly stands for. He should be VP.

[Terwilliger]

13. to say NOTHING of his views on abortion

:eyes:

[BuelahWitch]

18. Evan Bayh is truly Bush-lite!

:puke:

[IndianaGreen]

20. Lieberman is a raging liberal compared to Bayh

Bayh is a polished version of Zell Miller.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. which makes him PERFECT to the VP

That way, no one can accuse the Democrats of being "liberal".

[salin]

50. Except that he wouldn't bring Indiana

(so no gain) wouldn't have the pull to bring in southern states (again, no gain) and would further alienate the progressive wing of the party. So where is the strategic value?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. Your'e being sarcastic, right?

You're kidding, aren't you?

Unions are shit, less regulations of corporations, more jobs sent overseas -- those are values the Democratic Party "truly stands for"?

I'm a Democrat and I certainly don't belong to THAT party.

To keep from getting a warning from the mods I'll just direct you to my signature line to see what I think of that definition.

[salin]

49. wow... Evan Bayh represents what the party stands for?

no, that was his father, Birch.

Did you know that along with Zell Miller, Bayh was the holdout on the Sarbanes corporate reform bill - pushed them to take out the provision creating a Chinese Wall between business consulting and accounting duties by the same company (you know - a big part of the enron implosion) among other items. Had it not been for the second round of corporate implosions, the bill would have died. He was more interested in protecting the right of corporations to obscure financial information, than in protecting investor rights in having transparency and good information before investing.

Did you know that after the Kay report, on tv, he stated that he believes Kay is wrong and that Iraq has WMDs? Said that within the last couple of weeks. He would tank any democratic candidate who had any questions about how the administration justified the war. Because he claims to completely buy it.

While he was a strong fiscal centrist as Governor, he has (since bush was elected), He seems to have adopted a much less conservative streak towards fiscal stewardship/governance.

If he now represents the party, then it has further left its New Deal, common man roots than I had thought.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

57. those kind of regulations hurt business!

It's important for companies to have flexible accounting practises to deal with the new global marketplace! We don't need a bunch of red tape keeping our entreprenuers from creating wealth! That's the OLD style politics!

[salin]

58. LOL

Now I get it. You are so right, the ability to quietly plunder businesses out of the light of day, to accumulate huge debts that gets passed on to the banks holding the complex loans (and thus passing the costs onto other businesses doing business with the bank)... needs to be preserved! Its the American Way! Capitalism works best when it defies all of the conditions described by Adam Smith (the darn anti-capitalist!)... LOL

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

59. no, the "Chinese Wall" is seriously red tape

Investors can make decisions about which kinds of accounting practices they will accept - we don't want central control. When investors choose to use pro-forma earnines to make investment decisions, that may be in fact short sighted, but we shouldn't punish sophisticated investors for that.

[salin]

67. What red tape - just requiring that the functions are seperate

if you have one company advocating aggressive business plans (that we know now, can border on the illegal) - and that same company doing the certification that the numbers (revenues) are real then the reports are completely worthless. Suddenly there becomes no function of audits - as they become tools to hide the business arrangements (complex ways of hiding debt, or calculating flimsy predicted earnings as current revenue) rather than to certify the validity of the reported earnings.

This does nothing to punish investors, sophisticated or not.

Oh, I forgot, there is no problem of fraud in any megacorporation - all of the few that were malfeasant were caught and punished :eyes:

Quite the contrary - even the conservative but very respected former Reagan official bailed out of the panel that was to revise accounting principals to set new standards based on the rampant problems found... because after 6 months the major accounting firms had decided to return to their old practices (according to him) and that no one was willing to try to improve systems to benefit investors (and frankly, benefit boards and others who are interested in assessing the true fiscal health of a company - which in the long run benefits the company itself as brewing problems become uncovered and can be addressed.)

I am really surprised by this discussion. That there still is a belief that while there should be personhood granted to corporations - that their should not be any responsiblities assumed. We should stop all regulations - AND we should prevent civil lawsuits - e.g., there should be absolutely no consequences for egregious corporate behavior - and if it is bad enough (in costs of say, human lives ...) then MAYBE the market will correct itself.

Oh unless - we want the power of the government, in the case of the beef industry in the current situation, to step in as regulators and give the industry 'a clean bill of health' to attempt to coerce other governments who hold higher levels of safety requirements for the importation of beef from areas where there has been an outbreak (done in Japan to instill consumer confidence after a previous outbreak.) Then suddenly the regulators are an ally... but only if they call it the way industry demands. That is, they do not want the market place to dictate the practices - or they would have to - in order to sell to certain markets - adopt more stringent (and costly measures.)... Eg they really don't always believe in letting the market place correct problems.

[ludwigb]

60. My my

WhoCountsTheVotes. With all due respect, your views are such a minority on this forum that I sometimes think your persona is sarcastic.

Unions are a thing of the past! Pro-offshoring jobs is what the Democratic party really stands for! Go Bayh!

:wtf:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

64. maybe on this forum

Maybe on this forum a strong, pro-DLC, pro-business, pro-strong defense platform is a minority, but that is the kind of winning platform that most Americans believe in. DU needs to reflect the values of mainstream America if we want to win in the general election.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

65. Uh...uh...uh...

:puke:

[bigtree]

9. VP Bill Richardson would help forge an East-West dynamic

that could blunt the percieved advantage Bush in the South.

[Indiana Democrat]

10. What if Kerry picks a centrist like Bayh or Bill Richardson?

He wins the election easily.

[Indiana_Dem]

26. I know me and my husband won't vote for him if that's the case--

might as well keep the administration we have now. It would be the same.

[Indiana Democrat]

29. Please...

[Indiana_Dem]

30. No way. I am from Indiana.....

He never reurns my calls or e-mails. I even telegrammed him once about Halliburton. Did I get a response? Not a word. My grandpa never received a response from him either.

He is pro-war, pro-NAFTA & GATT.

I've been searching out his Republican opponent to see if he will be any better. I doubt if I will cast my vote for him for Senator this time around.

[revcarol]

33. Sounds like a purrrfect match.

One pro-war, NAFTA, GATT guy plus another.

And DON'T TELL ME KERRY WAS ANTI-WAR. His spin on that resembles Rove's finest.

[gate of the sun]

69. that is the truth!!!!

people say these things like how about Richardson for VP without actually knowing who he is.....he was one of the brainstormer's behind Nafta....this guy is no good for us.

[ulysses]

47. certainly worked that way for Gore.

:eyes:

[salin]

52. But he won't bring Indiana - so no gain.

Look Bayh is popular here - but moderately so with progressives. However, at the presidential level our wingnuts rule. We haven't gone for a democratic candidate since Lyndon Johnson. People in the state still love bush. Look at the attendance and hoopla around all of his and Cheney's trips to the state for fundraising for Mitch Daniels... Bayh as number two will not create enough crossover vote, especially if Kerry as opposed to Clark (or maybe Edwards) is at the top of the ticket, to win the state.

He won't bring any Southern states.

So there is no gain - but further alienation of progressive voters. So either it is a wash or a loss. Why does this make strategic sense?

Makes much more sense to run with Sen. Bob Graham - elected multiple time as Governor in Florida and multiple times as Senator in Florida, southern moderate. Also a centrist like Bayh but has been consistent rather than swinging further right after bush's election (giving bayh the appearance of national aspirations and opportunism - he moved further right than he has ever needed.) Like Bayh brings both Governor and Senatorial experience (but more senatorial experience.) Much more likely to carry Florida than Bayhs addition would help add Indiana (remember how close Florida was...) Florida has more strategic value than Indiana.

There are numerous other moderate democrats who offer to bring much more to a national ticket than Bayh.

[Mairead]

15. If Kerry picks someone like Bayh or Biden, then we will know with complete

certainty that he is nothing but alien slime wearing a Kerry-suit.

[Johnyawl]

17. Kerry is the liberal on the ticket

look at his record.

No, what Kerry needs is a southern centerist, someone like Clinton was, that would help him carry at least a couple of border states (say, Arkansas, Missouri & Virginia), and help in the prairie and mountain states. He also is going to need help keeping the Democrats motivated, and working hard. The last thing we need is a lackluster, boring VP like Lieberman, that brings so little to the ticket.

Clark would be perfect. or Edwards. maybe Bob Graham.

[sandnsea]

23. Exactly

I could only see Richardson or Edwards, from my point of view. ENERGY! Warner or Clark bring alot too, but I still think Clark is running a shaky campaign on domestic issues which is why he isn't winning. He's better than his campaign, that's for sure. But the last thing Kerry needs is another liberal on the ticket, I agree with that.

[Indiana_Dem]

27. I could live with that.

[salin]

53. Sen. Bob Graham

is my choice. Clark would be good, and Edwards as well - but Graham delivers a great deal.

[revcarol]

21. If Richardson is VP, I will seriously think about witholding my vote.

Snarky man spends thousands of scarce NM $$ promoting DEVELOPMENT by promoting NAFTA conferences that result in NO jobs for New Mexicans!!A bunch of us protested and we almost ended up in jail!!Thought we would have a 75 yr. old vet in a wheelchair being handcuffed and led off. We were surrounded by campus police, sheriffs, city police and state police. The ACLU attorney arrived just in time and demanded to talk to the President of the University, and threatened him(ex-CIA) with massive lawsuits. And this was Bill Richardson's idea of DEVELOPMENT.

i HAD TO PRACTICALLY SQUEEZE MY NOSE TO DEATH TO VOTE FOR HIM FOR GOVERNOR.Because of Wen Ho Lee. I'm NOT going to do it again!!

[gate of the sun]

73. I didn't vote for him I couldn't

people need to educate themselves just because someone has a D next to their name means nothing. Thanks revcarol for being a voice of truth here. We live in this state and it was a sad day for me he took Governor.

[adadem]

28. This Kerry supporter

and volunteer would be pissed.

[anti-NAFTA]

31. I would vote third party.

I won't support a system that includes two corrupt parties. So sue me.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

35. Good ol' Evan was one of those Dems...

who stood in the Rose Garden with Bush to support his Iraq crusade while other Dems were STILL fighting behind the scenes to rally against the resolution.

Bayh and Leiberman and Gephart can all rot for that little stunt as far as I'm concerned.

[anti-NAFTA]

36. Gephardt was the only true leftist running.

Show him some respect.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

66. The only leftist?

Don't think so.

I would put Dennis Kucinich in that role Heck even Carol Mosley Braun and Sharpton would qualify. Sorry, Dick lost any respect I could possibly give him that day.

[Paulie]

39. Russ Feingold

A budget hawk would look good on anyone's ticket. People know his name from the McCain/Feingold campaign finance blather.

[spooky3]

40. Bayh cannot deliver any electoral votes to the ticket.

Indiana will likely vote Rep. as it has for many years.

The nominee would be better off choosing someone whose ideology is more compatible with his own, AND who gives him some geographical advantage.

[Guava Jelly]

41. Anyone with a hope of actually winning

Would do very well to pick Bill Richardson.

[sleipnir]

42. I'd vote third party if he picks Bayh...

That's the line I won't cross. Evan is hardly a Dem in my book, not far off from selecting Zell Miller. Honestly, I'm not a Kerry fan, I'd already have to hold my nose to vote for him, but if he picks a centrist, lock-step Dem, bye bye vote. We need change not "business as usual" and that's what Kerry seems to be offering, "Business as usual". Which will only lead to an overwhelming Republican victory in 08, 12, 16, etc...

[revcarol]

63. See post 21.

A New Mexican who doesn't like to see innocent ethnic people FIRED and JAILED.REVCAROL

[sistersofmercy]

72. On the Richardson unemployment issue...

NM has an unemployment rate of 2.7-3% well below the national average. I was just looking at the numbers today. I fail to understand your complaint.

[kiahzero]

43. What if Kerry picks Batman as his VP?

Quick everybody... let's speculate about speculation!

[Terwilliger]

48. damn, you aren't willing to discuss anything?

should we play tiddlywinks while we wait?

[eileen_d]

51. I am perfectly willing to discuss a Kerry/Batman ticket.

For one thing, it would attract the Justice League vote. However, Penguin supporters will probably go third party.

[arewethereyet]

44. if he does he improves his chances

and pisses off the more left wing element. But they still vote "D" so it doesn't matter.

[bain_sidhe]

74. "But they still vote "D" so it doesn't matter."

This is the attitude that will kill the Democratic party.

Too bad, so sad. It was a great party, and I'll be sorry to see it die.

R.I.P.

[salin]

76. Its the old... its a big tent.. but only for my people... all the rest

will vote "d" anyway. :eyes:

[mot78]

46. No DINOs!

Bayh will drive a lot of people to Nader if he's selected. Look what happen with Lieberman.

[sistersofmercy]

54. I think Richardson would be a good choice.

Richardson, Edwards or Clark, I'd be happy with any one of the three because they would pull in votes for the presidency.

[beanball]

55. Kerry&Clark

New England liberal, southern general a winning ticket.

[RichM]

56. Forget about "bold." This is the Democratic Party you're talking about.

We are going to see a thoroughly Establishment figure in the top slot, and an obedient conformist at the bottom of the ticket. Kerry wouldn't even consider a Barbara Lee for a moment.

My guess is he'll pick Edwards. Thus, the whole ticket will have voted for the IWR & PATRIOT Act. That's yer "opposition party."

[KoKo]

62. Rich....I think it will be Edwards or that Warner, Gov. of Virginia.

Just a "gambling/casino is open" thought here..but I think Edwards is being "vetted." But, saw a wonderful "photo-op" with Kerry and Governor Warner of Virginia...on CNN this a.m. and thought....hmmmmmmmm........

Sigh......I think I need to leave USA......and "Good Riddance" some would say....ROFL.......:shrug:

[KoKo]

61. Armstead, If that happens......well...I'm outta here for sure...Coast of

Spain? I know some other places...but they are in America....OMG.....your scenario is so dark and disgusting....RUN FOR THE HILLS OR ACROSS THE OCEANS!

sorry....I have no patience tonight. Your post was the first I answered because I was "scrolling for posters" I think really have something to say, tonight.

Armstead....you have me shivering with those two choices...I hope to "whatever" that these two candidates are not even being thought about!!!

YUCKKKKKKKKKKK! BLECHHHHHHHHHHHH. (I'm not being extreme here!)

[mdguss]

70. He'd be smart:

It would help get rid of the Massachutes Liberal tag. Bayh would be an especially solid choice. Other good choices: Mary Landreiu, Patty Murray, Roy Barnes, Max Cleland, Bob Graham, Tim Johnson, and Dick Gephardt.

[salin]

75. What votes would Bayh bring? He wouldn't deliver our home

state of Indiana - maybe if he were at the top of the ticket - and with mitch daniels running for governor - the pres and vp have already made numerous trips to the state to raise money and fire up the troops.

Bayh is not a southerner and would not deliver any southern states.

So in terms of the electoral college - just what does he add? Nothing. Bad choice that brings NO capital to the race.

There are other moderate democrats who would bring more to the ticket. Bayh would be a waste.