Kerry, Dems may just lose in November and I am planning to leave

[Cascadian]

I just get this feeling that Rove and Company are going to spin like crazy on Kerry, the unofficial nominee of this Democratic Party. Sure he is finally bashing Bush (Howard Dean's idea. An idea Kerry stole!) and sounding "presidential" but why do I have this feeling that if Dean drops out, it will be the same old politics as usual? I just get a weird feeling that Bush and his band of jackals have some major stuff up their sleeve and could undermind the whole election. They will undermind the Democrats. The rank and file Demos will roll over and let it happen and then four more years of Bush and a stronger Republican control on the whole country. Anybody else having that feeling?

I am seriously on the verge of planning my departure from the country at this point.

John

[MurikanDemocrat]

1. Have a safe trip

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taeger]

52. They RAZED Hobbiton

Yep, they actually bulldozed the location and returned it to it's natural appearance.

But Bag End was a nice crib. I hope I have the resources to build an Earth Ship at some point and make it look JUST LIKE Bag End.

[MurikanDemocrat]

64. Oh darn. I missed a love note.

[Dookus]

2. LOL

Kerry "stole" the idea of criticizing the incumbent in a primary race? My god! The nerve!

[MurikanDemocrat]

4. ROTFL! Not only that

But the Republicans are going to spin like crazy against the Democratic nominee!!! gasp!!

Like they wouldn't do that to ANY of the candidates ...

[Born Free]

19. Kerry still the same candidate

Kerry is a Washington insider, one the corporate controlled media likes at the moment, they are showing Americans they can control the outcome of any election. Unfortunately, most democrats follow the media as much as anyone else. Until such time the media is forced to diversify , America is at it's mercy. The only choices you have are to stay home and do nothing or vote for the democratic candidate the media suggests. The so called information super highway lost the battle to the corporate controlled media, and with the corporate lobbyists pushing for more restrictions, it doesn't look too promising there will be any surge in independent news reporting any time soon.

On edit: DUers and other may feel the online scene has power but in reality these web sites are more like the car seats with toy steering wheels for babies to play drive, while their parents control the vehicle. We had hoped for more and perhaps had Al Gore made it to the white house things would be different today, but unfortunately money talks and the corporations have it all. Those democrats chearing the downfall of the democratic candidates outside the inner corporate circles are only adding to the problem.

[Lexingtonian]

20. Excuse me, who are the delusional robots here?

I vote for the "it's all a corporate media conspiracy" drones.

As we have learned, everyone except Dean is an insider- with the exception of all the NYC politicians that back him, Al Gore, Bill Bradley, and Tom Harkin.

[zoeyfong]

22. You would think the opposition party would oppose, but not Kerry...

The polls were against it. Then he saw it was working for dean, so he decided to do it too. It's pretty laughable though to hear him criticizing bush on the war.

[oasis]

3. How about registering voters and fighting to take your country back?

[bluestateguy]

5. At least stay registered to vote

Join Democrats Abroad.

[Tim_in_HK]

7. Hahaha!

Link for you!
www.democratsabroad.org

[JailForBush]

6. I wouldn't exactly say Kerry stole the idea of criticizing Bush;

it's hardly a novel idea. Kerry was just too gutless to pile on until someone else tried it first. When he saw that it worked for Howard Dean, he decided it was safe take off his shoes and wade into the murky waters of Campaign 2004, rather than observing it from the sidelines.

Of course, Bush & Co. have something up their sleeves - it may very well be Kerry. At the moment, it looks like we're likely to wind up with Emperor George W. Bush or President John Kerry. What a choice.

Of course, it's never truly hopeless. No one ever pays much attention to other election campaigns, especially local politics. Simply reforming the Seattle School Board and a few city councils in Texas could help so much.

Unfortunately, Democrats are apparently out to lunch, and Greens are just silly. I think we're going to have to try the German/Japanese brand of reform: Wait for a coalition of nations to do the job for us.

[Dookus]

9. umm...

how exactly did it "work" for Howard Dean? He hasn't won a primary. Kerry's won 9.

[buckeye1]

13. He hates everyone.

Feel better now.

[Cascadian]

11. He is using Dean's rhetoric.

Hell. He is even taking off his jacket just like Dean did. Using the same Dean style. You cannot tell me he did not steal that. What was he like before the primaries/caucuses? He was this stodgy, cold fish of a candidate but when the election season really started, he all of a sudden almost became a Dean clone.

John

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lexingtonian]

16. oh, please

You didn't see much of him in '96, did you. His winning race against Weld was the key one in reestablishing Democrats as the preeminent party in the state, ending the 1994/post-'94 funk here. (California turned it around in '98, New York in '00, Pennsylvania in '02 for purposes of comparison.)

He was mostly so rusty because the operation really took a lot out of him and running against only trivial opposition in '02 he did very little campaigning at all. Notice how the thing has changed since Mary Beth Cahill took over as manager this December.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-cahill29jan29,1,1363731.story?coll=la-home-politics

"She made a very persuasive case," he said. "She said, 'I need you, and we're going to win.' "

[Dookus]

17. I sure can tell you he didn't steal it...

I've been watching Presidential candidates take their jackets off since I can remember. Go watch political movies from the 40's. It's an old tradition. It shows the guy is getting down with the audience.

[bornskeptic]

38. If John Kerry had become a Dean clone

he would have crashed and burned just like Dean by now. Comparing Dean to Kerry is like comparing a bad-tempered house cat to a Bengal tiger.

[murielm99]

8. I understand what you are saying.

Sometimes they really frighten me, too. I think they have already planned several ways to steal this election.

But it may not work. They are not ten feet tall. They want us to think they are invincible, and it is working.

I have noticed many, many cracks in their armor lately. Shrub looks like he is going to come unglued. Who knows what will happen between now and November? Of course, they will trot out Osama, but what else? Are they craven enough to let another terrorist attack happen, and then conveniently catch the terrorists? Will other major, unspinnable scandals crop up to haunt them?

Anything they can do may backfire on them.

I would like my children, all in their twenties, to have a safe place to go, overseas, if things get bad. But that is only when I am feeling my most paranoid.

Hang in there. Do not leave. We need you.

[sandnsea]

10. This is why I'm for Kerry

Quit crying in your teacups. Quit crying in your teacups.

Fight.

We have the votes, we already have them. Don't you get it. We just have to go out there and get them to the polls.

There isn't ONE American that you can't find something Kerry has done in the legislature that will resonate strongly. Think about that. NOT ONE. Vets, poor women, business women, glbt, small business, parents, college students, health industry, environmentalists, union members. Want to talk security? Go get the book "The New War", there's your talking points right there. They CAN'T win. He has it wrapped up if we just get up off our duffs and take the fight to them.

He motivates his supporters to fight, that's why we win. Come on, we really have only just BEGUN to fight.

[oasis]

18. "You have the power" is now an echo in the distance. It can be revived.

Running Bush out of the White House is enough to get my spirits up.

[buckeye1]

21. Thanks

We will win!

[zoeyfong]

24. Fight for what? I'll fight for people i think are fighting for america,

that's not kerry. I don't know what he's fighting for; frankly it's a little hard to tell. Putting a 'D' behind his name does not give him some kind of magical morality and virtue; Repugs would say 'my country right or wrong,' or 'americans support the president;' well, i'll be honest, my loyalty is to what i believe to be truth and justice before it is to america or the democratic party. Therefore i will not vote for a candidate who i believe has committed an unforgivable moral offense, i.e., soliciting murder, and who has no business representing america or the democratic party.

[oasis]

42. No change is better than slow change. I'm beginning to get it, though

most people have it the other way around.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lexingtonian]

26. indeed

But the contents are not directed at him alone.

[rogerashton]

34. The Cascades

are a mountainous region extending from northern California to Canada. I 'spect Cascadian would include the coast range and the populous regions between the two ranges in his Cascadia.

[JCMach1]

15. It's beautiful weather in the Emirates today!!!

:)

[patricia92243]

27. If we run Kerry,we will lose - period - end of story. So get ready to move

[maddezmom]

29. are you making plans, too? n/t

[mikehiggins]

32. If Kerry is our candidate we should win the 2004 election

The dissatisfaction with Bush is so widespread and pervasive across the nation it really should be possible for the Democrat to win.

The only real question is whether it will make a difference or not.

Kerry will prove an inept and ineffectual Chief Executive. That is because he is part and parcel of what put us here in the first place. He is not the "agent for change" our nation needs if it is to survive in this new era. About all we can be sure of is that a Kerry White House will not propose people to the courts who will be blatently "foaming at the mouth" reactionaries. I guess that's something.

New jobs? Reformed trade? Medical care for everyone? Protection for out workers? Withdrawal from Iraq? You name it, it ain't going to happen. This nation will be lulled to sleep by the great stone face and while we sleep, our nation's collapse will proceed without hindrance.

The "Machiavellian" moment will have past and the destiny of this nation will be set for the next generation.

Too bad for us. The only problem with the "cut and run" strategy vis a vis abandoning the US, is where do you go? The coming collapse will be international in scope, and outside of Antarctica every other place will be affected.

Resistance is futile.

[maddezmom]

28. where are you going to go?

Is there a specific gov't outside the US you prefer? Just wondering.

[Atlant]

47. I can't speak for Cascadian, but cities that turn up on my list include...

I can't speak for Cascadian, but cities and regions that turn up
on my list include (in no particular order):

• Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver, CA
  
  
• London, Silicon Glen, or Wales, UK
  
  
• Various spots in NZ
  
  
• Paris or the Provence region, FR
  
  

For me, a huge amount depends on how the global semiconductor
(and general IT industry) market goes. Right now, thanks to Bush's
recession, even the chances of "escape" aren't all that good.

Atlant

[maddezmom]

51. sounds like a great list, I have friends in NZ

Have you ever lived outside the states before?

If you have, you know the mountain of work needed for a VISA. My husband was transferred by his company and we went thru hell. Do these countries let you in without a job or a reason for the move?

Good luck it won't be easy. :)

[gate of the sun]

61. I am thinking of NZ

as well. I'm thinking I want out of here. This whole deal with Kerry has really got my mind whirling....I can stay and fight for America with people willing to fight....but to just let it go like this...It seems hopeless to me...I think Kerry will win over bush but we will have gained very little. YOur right escape will not be easy or necessarily make things better. My husband and I are working on getting some children's books published and if we do...I hope they'll let us in.

[Cascadian]

53. I was thinking of Amstrerdam actually.

Or Vancouver.


John

[ima_sinnic]

30. I so agree--Kerry is a mediocre candidate

It will be easy for Rove et al to paint him as wishy washy, going whichever way the wind blows. Here's one small example, from Slumping in Polls, Bush Plans Fight, AP, Feb. 7:

Republicans say Kerry's record offers them ample areas to attack.

Ken Mehlman, Bush's campaign manager, indicated Republicans might target Kerry's proposal to roll back tax cuts for those making more than $200,000 in income.

"Higher taxes as a way to grow jobs was rejected in an election 20 years ago," he said, referring to Democrat Walter F. Mondale's proposal to raise taxes in the 1984 campaign.

Mehlman and other Republicans also indicated that they will attempt to depict Kerry as beholden to the special interests he routinely denounces in his campaign appearances.

Already, Gillespie has made speeches that question Kerry's record on defense and national security issues . . .

</snip>

Whatever, yes of course they would mount such attacks against any candidate.

When there was so much excitement around Dean we completely forgot about the average American sheeple and how they are pretty much clueless about the urgency of a complete revamping of the government. Since seeing the handwriting on the wall about Kerry a couple of weeks ago I have completely lost interest in the whole primary process.

I will go to the polls in November and, as I have done for the past 35 years, vote Democratic--but that is all I will do. I can no longer make the case with people that they need to vote for change. The people have a choice: vote for business as usual under a lying crony-beholden Republican, or vote for business as usual under a machine Democrat.

*yawn*

[MaineDem]

31. Regardless of the candidate

I'm going to work my tail off to get him elected. If I do my best and the rest of the country pulls together and backs the one who wants Bush out of the White House I have great belief that it can be done.

If I sit back and whine that my candidate didn't win so I'm taking off, well, that's defeatism in my book and I won't feel good about myself.

So I'm fighting like hell and I'm joining others who are willing to fight and we're going to win in November and * will be back at the pig farm.

[gate of the sun]

62. It's not because their candidate didn't win

It's because the candidate that is winning isin't offering us a way out of this mess .

[izzie]

33. I sort of enjoy all this. Keeps my blood moving fast.

Things go in waves any how. We get sick of things one way so another way moves in. We had the Know-nothing party once and we got through that so I guess we will get through the Flat-earth Party.

[Nicholas_J]

35. Kerry was bashing bush in the Senate

Before Dean decided to run for office. Kerry stole nothing. Dean simply started running two years earlier than anyone else, and from his favorabilty rating in the polls, they must be noticing how much Dean stole from everyone else. Adding Gephardt and Kerry's ideas to short up his pathetic ideas for heath care(Which in September of 2002 amounted to letting people buy into medicaid, and that was it).

Copying almost word for word Kerry's speeches before the CFR from six months earlier.

The idea that Dean invented attacvking the opposing party when running against them is the biggest joke there is. WHich is what has resulted in Dean very abrupt fall, and the fact that in polls for upcoming races, Deans disapproval rating runs from 2 to 3 times his approval rating. After seeing how much he has really cribbed from others, his stance as Governor on issues like Medicare and MEdicaid, and how he reveresed them for the presidential run, His support support for unilateral invasion of Iraq before the Iraq resolution was signed and before the war started, and then his sudden reversal, hoping that the American voters memory would be too sort to notice the change (fortunately the media and Dock gepahrdt reminded them of these inconsistancies)

And the fact that the American people, all of them, in almost every poll, beleive that it is Kerry who can beat Bush, and have higher favorability rating for Kerry, than all of the other candidate, whild Deans are among the lowest. Why? Because Dean had to explain so many flp flopos and past op
There are simply too many polls showing that republicans, democrats, and independents beleive Kerry will beat Bush, and want Kerry to beat Bush. You can fudge a couple of hundre votes in Florida, You cannot fudge a landslide. And with the incionsistancies in the Bush presidency, and the consistances of Kerry;s political record. Kerry is going to make Bush like like a lying thief between the nomination and the election. And Kerry has two people sitting very quietly by the sidelines, there names not being brought up, nothing they know being used to attack Bush. Rand Beers and Ambassador Wilson. One very privy to the conversations that went on when the decisions were being made to not go after Osama, and to go after Iraq.

[molly]

37. Kerry will be our candidate and we will win

too many Bush insiders are coming out like Paul O'neill. I have a feeling there will be more.

[NNN0LHI]

36. Have a good trip n/t

[bushwakker]

39. If Kerry can't win then none of them can

He has the best set of credentials to win. Dean would be slaughtered.

[Zomby Woof]

40. Dean IS business as usual

I just don't get where people think Dean is special and is not the usual politician. He reeks of old-time huckster faux-populism. He catered to enough corporate interests in Vermont to make him no better or worse than any other governor. Had he been in Congress, he would have likely voted for both the Patriot Act and IWR. He is no Wellstone or Kucinich. But I will let up on Dean for a while, since picking on the irrelevant is hardly necessary.

[edzontar]

43. We KNOW you hate Dean, but what is your view of KERRY

Now that DK is obviously finished?

Does his IWR vote matter at all to you?

If not, why support DK, whose whole campaign is anti-war based?

I am truly confused about your views on this matter.

[Zomby Woof]

60. I don't hate anyone

As for the confusion, that isn't my problem. My views are open and clear for anyone to see.

I do see a bigger picture than most people on here though. A way bigger picture.

[Carolina]

41. absolutely

a band of jackals. I have money tucked away for my son. It's unlikely that I will leave but I will do what I can to get him the hell out of here. Bush is a monster and our frontrunner Kerry rolled over too many times for him. How, now can he be an effective candidate against the head jackal. I am getting a sinking feeling about Novemeber ... a draft's a-coming so I am preparing to put my child out of harm's way.

[pezcore64]

44. ...

I definitely think Kerry will be an easy target, maybe even more so than Dean possibly could have been. Kerry has done nothing but agree with the president up until his presidential bid, and you better believe they will use this against him. So on top of voting with the republicans, he will have the classic New England/Mass liberal label.

I must ask...

What exactly has John Kerry done for us in the 19 years hes been in washington? we shouldnt we want someone outside of DC?


EDIT :
P.s.
Canada looks pretty nice! Im definitely going after 2008 if things have not changed!! Its like Leonard Cohen said in one of his songs " I love the country, but i dont like the scene". So im up out this piece after 2008!!!

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nashyra]

46. I have serious doubts about Kerry

I will vote for Kerry, but the fact that the establishment is complicit in annointing him the candidate is disheartening, I was hoping that they would have learned after the IWR vote to stick their necks out. It will be too easy to paint Kerry into a corner, his votes against funding for intelligence will hurt him. Why do you think that the administration agreed to the "commission about intelligence" look for them to leak "intelligence community seriously underfunded" "We went to war because of faulty intelligence, guess who in the past voted against continued funding for intelligence" it all falls into place. The WH has figured out that Kerry will be the nominee and that is their rallying call for the elctorate. Anyone care to make any bets? PM me. I'll be doing what I can to get my son out of the country until his education is finished and then he can come back and join voluntarily the branch of service he wants to. He is currently recieving a Retired Military officers Scholarship which requires military science classes but no requirement to join, though he has always wanted to join the Marines when he graduates,OCS Being drafted is pure destruction to a young persons future, choices are what this country is about. I trust my sons future to Clark, not to the status quo Dem party.

[pezcore64]

48. Wow

We sound like republicans more and more everyday!!

"YOU DONT LIKE IT, GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!"


lol!!!

[milkyway]

49. The smug, arrogant reactions of Kerry supporters on this thread is

really uplifting. It inspires me to want to work and donate for Kerry if he gets the nomination. Nothing more impressive than a bunch of sore winners.

[Dookus]

54. *shrug*

After months and months of abuse heaped on my guy by a segment of Dean supporters, I don't feel particularly put-out that now Dean's getting the treatment.

Do you think if Dean got the nomination, we'd all have the warm-fuzzies for him based on his supporters?

[Cascadian]

55. If I am not mistaken...

they are beginning to sound like Republicans. This whole "America. Love it our leave it." attitiude. I don't hate America. I loved what it stood for in the past but now I don't even recognize it anymore. It's a bit like a family member that becomes an alcoholic or junkie and won't get help.


John

[oasis]

57. If I am not mistaken, you're the one that wants to leave. Us junkies and

alcholics prefer to stand and fight.

[mitchum]

59. And nothing is LESS impressive than a bunch of sore LOSERS

ABB

[aquart]

50. Buh bye.

Nobody is going to be voting FOR anybody in November. The vote will be AGAINST Bush.

He can trot out 20 Osamas but he can't make one job.

[NashVegas]

56. I Disagree

I think if Kerry wins the nom, you may very well see him be somewhat protected, and things start looking worse and worse for Dubya.

Not that that's entirely a good thing, it's joint pointing out a doubt that Kerry will, in the end, do any real lasting harm to PNAC's agenda.

[mitchum]

58. WOW! None of the Dems were going to criticize Bush...

without Dean's example? That's ludicrous (and I'm being charitable)

Bon Voyage

[Edge]

63. If that asshole Bush makes it back in...

then I may join you into leaving the country. I will not tolerate him for another four years. I'm gonna do everything on my part to vote Dumbass out of office.

And no, Kerry didn't steal a thing from Dean.

[KoKo]

65. Forget the folks who don't share your frustration. There are others here

who understand "exactly" what you say.

[bloom]

66. If Kerry gets the nom

I think he is going to need ALL of our help - to keep the Anti-Bush message strong.

[eileen_d]

67. Never underestimate the power of negative thinking.

Or negative predictinos, for that matter.