How has Skull and Bones affected Kerry's career?

[fujiyama]

OK, How the hell has him being a member in the organization affected his career? I haven't seen any evidence that he's tried covering up for anyone or that his connections have helped him in any way.

Or better yet, how the hell is Kerry as big a corporte whore as Bush? Kerry has a consistant liberal voting record.

I'm seriously so sick of ganging up on Kerry. It was wrong when it happened to Dean and it's wrong now. Enough already. This may be the nominee. It's one thing to ask a question about him, to express concern, but to claim that Kerry voters are "Sheeple" and that they are sell outs is just plain disgusting. Better yet I love these posters that love to state how "proud" they are of being against Kerry. What's there to be proud of in such cynicism? How does voting against Kerry teach anyone a lesson of sorts? Who is helped by such at thing? I don't see any point at all in that.

If you honestly think that Kerry and Bush are the same, you really don't know a damn thing about him. And I know the usual thing - He voted for IWR and PATRIOT Act. Well I hate the two things as much as anyone here...and yes we can see that he didn't show much political courage, but frankly that resolution doesn't matter now. He made a mistake...but even if he did voted against it, we'd still be at war. The fact is though he has spoken against the war. That's better than still praising it. As for the PATRIOT Act, only Fiengold opposed it. Even Wellstone voted for it.

I want to see evidence that Kerry will appoint fanatics like Ashcroft as Attorney General or Rumsfeld as defense secretary, or Cheney as VP. These people will leave as will the head of EVERY other cabinet dept. if Kerry is elected. He will have the power to appoint actual liberal on the courts.

I seriously hope this place ISN'T represenative of the party, because if it was, the damn party would never win for the simple reason that it's so divided. I'm not saying people should fold up their tents and give up. This race isn't done, but the fact is people are choosing the candidate they want (through the primaries), like it or not.

[Edge]

1. From what I've heard...

S & B members, in order to join the organization, have to kill someone...just so that if they decided to leave or speak out against the organization, then the S & B would have something against the person.

If that were the case, then yes, it does make a difference and it makes me question the integrity of the man.

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. From what Ive heard...

Bush has killed over 500 in Iraq so I guess Kerry has plenty on him...

Im ABB but I dont trust Kerry...

[Shanty Oilish]

3. I can see how that might influence your opinion.

Yep...

[MurikanDemocrat]

8. Oh, please!!

Are you SERIOUS??

[oasis]

12. What you've heard? There is ample reading material on the subject.

[Indiana Democrat]

28. Oh my GOD!!!

"Kill someone"?????????

This Skull and Bones conspiracy crap has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAY too far.

You CAN'T be serious?? You CAN'T really believe this????

[eileen_d]

32. Why the hell not... we all know the Clintons were murderers

Why not Kerry? He's an establishment Democrat who's winning elections, so he must be a criminal, right? :eyes:

[MAlibdem]

36. How about the Viet Cong Kerry killed, do those count? (n/t)

[tameszu]

39. I think you may be relying too much on the really bad

movie "Skulls" for your information. Listen, if to join S&B, you had to kill someone, there would be several dozen unsolved murders each year coming out of New Haven as a result. Plus, S&B isn't all that secret--it used to go in your yearbook entry and one of the Yale student tabloids makes a sport out of trying to figure out who the new "taps" are each year. It really isn't that big of a deal--certainly not 1,000th as big of a deal as Yale's elitism in general (speaking as a Yale student), which IS a problem.

[Jim Sagle]

4. Positively.

[eileen_d]

5. Personally, I enjoy being a Kerry supporter

People who can't accept reality need a target. I'm proud to serve.

[nightperson]

6. I find this place interesting,

but don't worry, it is not very representative of the Democratic Party, despite its name. Take it from a Kerry ( Mr. 50%) supporting pariah ;) with no interest in Marxism.

[MurikanDemocrat]

7. What you see here is not representative of the rest of the country

The DU is a lot more left leaning and activist than the majority of the American public.

Nor are the majority of Americans making IWR and the PATRIOT Act a litmus test for their choice of candidates.

The biggest factor with the public is that they are angry with Bush and they want him the hell out of office. The record turnouts at the primaries have to be keeping Rove awake at nights, because its a damned good sign for Democrats.

The people voting in these primaries are not "sheeple", they are making an informed choice. It's just laughable - when Dean was the anointed nominee for the longest time, the Dean supporters like to think that was because people were smart and making the "right" choice. Now that the voters have rejected Dean and voted for Kerry instead, the people are not so smart anymore because they didn't agree with their choice.

Darn that will of the voters! Don't you just HATE when that happens?

There is no question that Kerry is abundantly qualified to be President, and ridiculous to suggest that there would be no difference between him and Bush. That's just the obnoxious ranting of someone having a tantrum.

What really frustrates me, if you want to know the truth, is people who insist this election has to be about radically changing the entire Democratic Party overnight. That is just not realistic, and that is not going to happen no matter WHO is in the White House. Not Dean nor Kucinich, nor even frickin Nader would be able to turn the entire Democratic Party on it's head and change it overnight, or even in 4 years time. Things just don't happen on that kind of a time table.

So, and this undoubtedly won't win me any points with the extreme left here, I really don't have a lot of sympathy for the threats and the tantrums about leaving the party if certain people don't get their way in the choice of the Democratic nominee. Because change happens slowly and their expectations are unrealistic.

The majority of Democratic voters are simply not going go along with a radical agenda, and the Democratic Party is not going to commit suicide to appeal to the small percent that might go Green and abandon the greater numbers left of center. Logic dictates that's not ever going to happen.

Change is going to have to come slow, by working within the party. And that doesn't stand a chance at all if Bush gets another term in office. We desperately need to get a Democrat in the White House in 2004. That's the first step.

Oh, and Skull and Bones is horse shit.

[eileen_d]

9. I agree with most of what you said

and thanks for saying it so clearly.

Just one thing: Skull and Bones isn't horse shit. It's bull crap. ;)

[MurikanDemocrat]

10. I stand corrected

;)

[Democritus AChE]

15. Kerry or Clark: The choice is clear... Clark or bust...

I left the party in 2000 because of people like Gore. While I admit I was disappointed when the election was stolen from Gore, I didn't like him, nor did I vote for him. He did not distinguish himself from Bush at the time that he ran. I have been Democrat for as long as I can remember, but Gore sickened me. He distanced himself from the Clintons and picked up a moron for a vice pres. Lieberman supports faith based crap and was also one of the leading Democrats speaking out against Clinton regarding his PERSONAL FAMILY MATTERS. I also saw him on TV at a Christmas tree giving some Christmas message without even mentioning Hanukah. I know he doesn’t hid the fact that he’s Jewish, but still, I found this quite insulting.

At any rate, I'm voting for Clark. If Kerry wins the nomination, I will vote for anyone other than Kerry or Bush. Yes, I know, I have heard it all before; I'm a sell out, I'm "ruining the party" blah blah blah. That is why I left in the first place. As soon as I showed interest in Nader I was called all sorts of insulting names by other Democrats, which is why I left the party and took 4 years to come back to it.

Clark changed that for me and made me want to be a Democrat once again. He has a long history as a Democrat, has voted Republican in the past, and has had experience in the military, all things which will get the Republican vote. He is also very liberal and will attract the liberal vote. And, as others have suggested on here, anyone will get the vote since Americans are unhappy with Bush. If Clark wins the nomination, I am willing to bet money that he would win the election. Kerry will lose the liberal vote and will probably lose. It's all speculation at this point, but I'm sure we will all see in the end.

Of course I know a few of you will call someone who doesn’t agree with you an “extremist” as I have noticed on this forum many times. That is one of the reasons Republicans make me so sick; they insult people who don’t share their views, yet I have seen some people call left leaning liberals extremists simply because they don’t like Kerry. Well, I guess I’m an extremist tree hugging liberal than. Some of you sound more like Rush Limbaugh than true Democrats…

Personally I'm looking forward to Hillary in 2008, so as much as I hate Bush, I will deal with another 4 years to teach the Democratic Party a lesson: don't ignore the left side of the party as you did in the 2000 election. Such an attitude is what gave the election to Bush in the first place.

Clark is the best candidate for America and I am sticking with that. I'm sure I will be insulted for not following the flock. A month ago everyone was riding Dean because he was the man of the media... Now that he dropped off, everyone is riding Kerry... Wow, Democrats are really disappointing me... After the nomination is chosen, depending on who wins, will depend on what party I declare on my next registration. I would be a life long Democrat, if Democratic nominees would also be life long Democrats; However, at this point, many of them are simply soft Republicans.

[newyawker99]

19. Hi Democritus AChE!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Democritus AChE]

35. Thanks, I wish I could be with a gay midget.

Thanks for the welcome! I really like this website so far.

However, it might be premature at this point to welcome me. I have an affect on people; they either love me or they hate me (usually hate). I'm like Malcolm X meets Stiffler from American Pie. Crude, crass, tactless, honest and direct.

That is not to say I'm not respectful or polite, but rather I'm simply honest. Conservatives don't like that because they themselves prefer someone who lies; i.e. the current president.

Liberals tend to have a problem with me because most liberals have an all-or-nothing philosophy; meaning, if you agree with something 'liberal' you must agree 100%. For example, you could support gay rights, support gay marriage, but state that scientifically speaking, homosexuality is not biological in nature. People will hate you for that, even though you are 100% in support of gay rights. They not only want a supporter, but a cheerleader who will never question the team; I'm too scientific and skeptical for that. I'm only using this as an example, so please don't argue this point...

Anyway, as Adam Ant said on "Friend or Foe," "I want those who get to know me, to become admirers or my enemies."

Oh, yes, I make funny titles to get attention.

[murielm99]

16. Thank you for saying that.

I agree with every bit of it.

Kerry killed someone? Gimme a break. By now, if any Skull and Bones member had killed someone, there would have been an investigation. To think otherwise is extremely silly.

Thank you again for saying all that. If they flame you, I will stand by you. Nearly everyone here seems well-read and well-informed. They should be using some of that knowledge and information to work for the slow but inevitable changes we need.

I like Kerry precisely because of his insider knowledge. Remember what the press and the opposition did to Clinton? They will do the same to Kerry, as nominee, and President. Kerry is tough, and knows his way around Washington. He will be able to hold up well under all that pressure.

And anyone who sits out this election is unpatriotic.

[corporatewhore]

27. but alot of people are making freetrade an issue even lou dobbs

[Lexingtonian]

11. easy

It gives every boob an excuse to engage in classist bigotry.

For being selfproclaimed liberals, the intolerance these people show is pretty astonishing.

[abracadabra]

13. the media told us our candidate is Kerry-ok-I'll go home now

but not until I say WAKE UP !!!
Why the hell do you think the Media is cheeerleading Kerry Kerry Kerry ??
Has the corporate media just switched sides and now they are our friends? They've denounced their allegiance to the pursuit of corporate wealth and now they are speaking on behalf of the people?
Ask yourself WHY haven't we heard about anyone else but Kerry.
I'll tell you this:
It's not because "he's the only candidate who can beat Gorge DubbleYou Boosh"!!!

CLARK would SMOKE Boosh any day any time.
Four stars vs. Four letters(AWOL)

Dean could easily beat boosh if they'd quit turning down the crowd volume to make him out to be mental.


Oh yeah--there was an idioticSkull&Bones movie -showed all there was about the reality of the organization right?
Just a bunch of ficticious nonsense right?

WRONG
Alexandra Robbins has a great book about it--she is the first one to get the inside story -they talked to her because since she was a member of an affiliated female organization.


LOOK- don't be "scared"-

http://www.secretsofthetomb.com/excerpt.asp


here's the main page

http://www.secretsofthetomb.com/index.asp

[MurikanDemocrat]

14. The media told us the anointed one was Dean

The voters disagreed.

[murielm99]

17. Hugs to you!

eom

[newyawker99]

20. Hi abracadabra!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[izzie]

18. I shows he was young and silly once and played kids games

Has any one ever herd of anything as silly as lying in a casket, nude telling other men about your sex life?

[pezcore64]

21. Hum

How can Skull and Bones help someone?

Uhh
lets see
<START SARCASM>
a group of elitest with large amounts of money...hummmmmmmmm
nope..i bet they couldnt effect the political process at all!!!
<END SARCASM>
lol!!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. How has Skull & Bones helped Bush's career?

Not at all? Yeah right.

[pezcore64]

23. lol

tons im sure, as it helps any member who is running for office.
i think its amasing theyve managed to win EITHER WAY! Either way they keep their lil elitest society in the White House! Brilliant! Ya hafta give them that much, they arent stupid. They will continue to play a strong role in who we have as a president until the end of the earth unless someone does something about it...or atleast thats what i fear.

[Duder]

24. Richard Franklin thinks so:

...

'Part of the importance of Kerry's being a Bonesman is the way in which he has insinuated himself into intelligence matters as a Senator. He ultimately became chairman of the Intelligence Committee. This area has always attracted members of the Order. The intertwining of the Order and the CIA has been extensive since day one. Kerry's interest in this area as a senator therefore has a bad smell. The fact is Bonesmen in government serve the Order first and the American people last.

When the scandal of CIA trafficking in drugs was exposed on the West Coast, the Intelligence Committee, under the chairmanship of Kerry was almost forced into looking into the matter. As many predicted, Kerry engineered what amounted to a whitewash and a slap on the wrist, and we lost the best chance we ever had to nail the CIA to the wall for its long involvement in global drug trafficking.'

...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

26. Kerry's Russell Trust connection and his coverup of BCCI and IranContra

are very serious concerns. It's too bad that a lot of people like to dismiss it because of the S&B freaky rituals.

I'm concerned with what these people do *after* graduations - and a quick look at their interconnecting ties and incestuous networks with the intelligence agencies should at least give one pause.

[bigtree]

29. Kerry's coverup? I found the report! Will wonders never cease?

The BCCI Affair
A Report to the Committee on Foreign Relations
United States Senate
by Senator John Kerry and Senator Hank Brown
December 1992
102d Congress 2d Session Senate Print 102-140

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/01exec.htm

Introduction and Summary of Investigation
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/02intro.htm

The Origin and Early Years of BCCI
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/03hist.htm

BCCI's Criminality
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/04crime.htm

BCCI's Relationship with Foreign Governments, Central Banks, and International Organizations
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/05foreign.htm

BCCI in the United States - Initial Entry and FGB and NBG Takeovers
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/06early.htm

BCCI in the United States - Part Two: Acquisition, Consolidation, and Consequences
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/07later.htm

BCCI and Law Enforcement - The Justice Deparment and the US Customs Service
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/08just.htm

BCCI and Law Enforcement - District Attorney of New York
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/09ny.htm

BCCI and Its Accountants
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/10accounta.htm

BCCI, The CIA and Foreign Intelligence
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/11intel.htm

The Regulators
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/12reg.htm

Clark Clifford and Robert Altman
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/13clifford.htm

Abu Dhabi: BCCI's Founding and Majority Stockholders
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/14abudhabi.htm

Mohammed Hammoud: BCCI's Flexible Frontman
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/15hammoud.htm

BCCI And Georgia Politicians
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/16ga.htm

BCCI's Lawyers and Lobbyists
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/17law.htm

Hill and Knowlton and BCCI's PR Campaign
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/18hill.htm

Ed Rogers and Kamal Adham
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/19rogers.htm

BCCI and Kissinger Associates
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/20kiss.htm

Capcom: A Case Study of Money Laundering
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/21capcom.htm

Legislative and Policy Recommendations
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/22legrec.htm

Appendix - Matters For Further Investigation, Witnesses and Writs
http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/24appendic.htm


Spread the word!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

31. and Kerry mentioned Bush how many times?

I suppose Kerry and you just took Bush's statment that he was "out of the loop" at face value?

Kerry did a great job making sure none of his brothers like Bush took any heat. They got a handful of small fries though.

To think - and after all this, Kerry still voted to support Bush's war and Bush's PATRIOT act. I suppose he though the Bushes had changed their stripes?

[bigtree]

33. How does the nation know about BCCI? Did the evidence fall from the sky

What about Ed Rogers? Bush's old presidential campaign manager who he appointed to FEMA? This clown is now the head of 'New Bridge', a consulting group that steers cronies to the Iraq reconstruction booty


From the report: http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/19rogers.htm

ED ROGERS AND KAMAL ADHAM

Introduction

"In the view of the Subcommittee, the real story of Ed Rogers' involvement in the BCCI scandal has yet to be fully revealed. Rogers, a former White House Political Director, left his position at the White House in early August 1991 to start the political consulting firm of Rogers and Barbour in Washington D.C. By the end of August Rogers, who had only briefly practiced law, was offered a $600,000 contract with Kamal Adham.

Rogers was deposed by the Subcommittee in March 1992. His account of how he received the contract with Adham, who he consulted before accepting Adham as a client, and his relationship to Adham after withdrawing from the contract, are all called into question by his telephone logs, documents provided to the Subcommittee and interviews conducted by the Subcommittee. "

Rogers Resigns Account -- The White House Investigates

On October 23, the story of Rogers's representation of Adham was reported in the press. Two days later, President Bush, in a press conference, said that he didn't know what Ed Rogers "is selling," and that "he didn't know anything about the man." From the President's comments it was unclear whether or not he was referring to Rogers or Adham, but, in fact, he appears to know both men reasonably well. In his deposition, Rogers testified that he sat in on meetings with the President "on numerous occasions." In an interview with the Middle East News Network, Kamal Adham, who was head of Saudi intelligence during the same years that President Bush headed the CIA, stated:

There was a period of overlap, but whatever the case it is not possible for a President to say that. The next day, nobody mentioned the White House spokesman came out and said that the President knows Mr. Adham and he did not like what was written in the papers..."
Shortly thereafter Rogers reportedly resigned the Adham account, writing to Boyden Gray:

I registered out of an abundance of caution. The ethics atmosphere at the Bush White House was to go the extra mile to assure that no one could ever say any ethics requirement was violated or avoided. I followed this philosophy and registered, as I did not want anyone to say that I should have registered but did not do so. Unfortunately, going beyond the requirements of the law has resulted in an embarrassing spate of stories for my client, the Administration and me.

Responding to Congressman's Charles Schumer's call for an investigation of the matter, Counsel Gray purported to mount an inquiry. However, Gray never met with Rogers. Instead, two of Grays's assistants, with whom Rogers was "friendly" called him on the telephone two times each to discuss the matter.(32) According to Rogers, the conversations lasted ten to fifteen minutes each. On November 1, 1991, Gray wrote Congressman Schumer that "Mr. Rogers was not responsible for and did not participate in any matters concerning to BCCI at the White House."(33)

The question, however, is not only whether Rogers had access to information on BCCI at the White House, but whether or not he began the process of negotiating his contract with Adham while he was at the White House. On this point, Rogers provided conflicting and confusing testimony:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

34. Because BCCI went under? Along with a lot of the S&Ls?

Kerry was damage control. It worked too didn't it - Bush's son is now President, to be challenged by his brother Bush Jr.

Kerry did make BCCI news - it was news. He got in front of the investigation and made sure it didn't touch any high level people.

[Toucano]

25. Some concerns have merit

"I want to see evidence that Kerry will appoint fanatics like Ashcroft as Attorney General or Rumsfeld as defense secretary, or Cheney as VP."

Why is he associated with Rand Beers? This monkey is a Bush administration transfer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=285781&mesg_id=285781


Kerry embracing Beers is most foul.

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

37. yup, beers

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Rand_Beers

[shance]

30. Money, power, and connnections - its essentially a winning lotto ticket

S&B apparently writes a ticket for whomever is lucky enough to be tapped, which right off the bat, one needs to be white, WASP and from blue-blooded establishment roots.

[UTUSN]

38. Yes, Certainly Around HERE at DU, Where It Shouldn't Have n/t