Am I hearing HAROLD FORD, JR on the Sean Hannity show right now?

[brooklynite]

This is a pretty saavy move on his part. He's forcing Sean to stay civil, slapping Corker around for being afraid to debate, showing that he'll stand up to criticism and insults, and and in general getting out the message that he's not a wild-eyed socialist to the white Republicans who might have been spooked by the RNC ad.

[davidinalameda]

1. as much as I want a Democratic majority in the Senate

I wish that we had a more liberal candidate in Tennessee

I would be hard pressed to vote for him due to his stands on several issues

[Clark2008]

3. Well, you don't have to vote for him, do you?

I'm so sick and tired of the Harold-bashing on this forum by those who have never even set foot in Tennessee, much less know anything about my state's politics.

Southern-bash-fest... that's what it's amounted to and it's idiotic, divisive and stupid.

P.S. So tell me - when is YOUR state going to get rid of that military-industrial complex whore Di-Fi? Pure much?

[9119495]

6. I hate it but you're right.

First we get Harold into Tennessee, he provides good government, helps turn the state blue, then we get a liberal senator in next time. (hopefully)

[Clark2008]

10. I doubt that will be "next."

First, we need to get back the Fairness Doctrine and get some decent reporting going on in this state so that the people will realize how bad Republicanism is to working people.

Then, you might have more admitted liberals in this state.

Right now, thanks to our conservative-only media, liberal is a dirty, dirty word.

[pnwmom]

46. If he provides good government, then why would the people

want to replace him?

[9119495]

96. I mean replace Lamar Alexander...I think he is one of the many vulnerable

ones for 2008. We may not get the senate this time, but I noticed in 2008 there are a slew of vulnerable republicans and relatively few vulnerable Democrats.

[davidinalameda]

7. southern bash fest?

He's a DINO

he's voted with the more conservative elements of the party and with the Republicans on more than a few issues

he voted for the anti-gay marriage amendment; that right there shows me that he doesn't care about gay and lesbian Americans

[Clark2008]

8. Not your post, specifially, but most.

And, if you think Ford could win in this state by supporting gay marriage - think again.

He's a SOUTHERN Democrat - not a DINO.

So--- what are you going to do about your corporate whore Di-Fi? You know, that "DINO" who votes for war so it will benefit her husband?

I'm just saying that YOU may wish for a more liberal candidate in Tennessee, but it's really not your matter. You need to deal with your own foxes in the henhouse. No one person fits the ideology perfectly.

[BOSSHOG]

11. I have the same situation with my democratic congressman

Gene Taylor (Big D) 4th congressional Mississippi. He isn't my ideal dem but he is a dem and if he drifted too far left he would not continue to be reelected. I'll keep him in office, thank you very much.

Ford is getting raped by the racists and ignorant haters in Tennessee. Imagine what would happen to a candidate far more liberal.

I'd vote for Ford if I were a TN resident.

[davidinalameda]

12. how about doing what's right instead of what's popular

General Clark, who I supported in 2004, ran on a platform of doing what's right

I really wish that people like Ford would step and lead instead of following the polls

[Clark2008]

13. And our General is supporting Ford because he knows

Southern politics.

But, if Ford doesn't get into the Senate, it's hard for him to lead on some of these issues. But, keep in mind, he also has to represent the views of his constituents - and most of them, including a great number of Democrats in this state - simply aren't for gay marriage (not in 2006, anyway).

That will change too. Just not as quickly as it is in other states.

[SouthernBelle82]

92. I agree

And I do see that change slowly but surely and I betcha that Ford will change too. He seems to be that type of person to listen and progress. Earlier this week on the local news they did a story about the amendments (specifically the antigay amendment) and a lot of people weren't voting for it because they either just didn't care anymore or the language of the bill was too confusing and that got them to not vote for it. I like that about TN voters because it shows me they at least care about what a bill says before voting for it and not just listening to any old radio host or politician. I think you'll see more people will change their minds about gay marriage by the next time around. It's up to us I think to show people that just because the government approves of something a church doesn't have to even if it does go against the second commandment from Jesus Christ (love thy neighbor as thy self).

[pnwmom]

97. I read an article about Hillary yesterday

and about how her ideas about gay marriage had "evolved" over the last six years, to the point where she would now support a change in the laws. Good for her.

I think this is happening all over the country, just perhaps at a slower pace in the South. But we're all getting there.

[Tarheel_Dem]

14. sorry dwickham...but you sorta skirted the question....

what are you gonna do about Di-Fi? I'm a red state Southern Democrat, and I have to agree that a "liberal" couldn't even get elected dogcatcher down here. So, for all ideological purity standards set by those who don't even live in the South...I say get a clue.

[davidinalameda]

15. I don't like DiFi

I'm from West Virginia-I know all about red state Southern Democrats and I don't like it

I didn't vote for her six years ago and I'm not sure if I voted for her this time around-I vote absentee

[pnwmom]

19. West Virginia is a different kettle of fish.

It went with the North during the Civil War, a fact that you should be proud of. It has little in common with states like Tennessee, other than mosquitoes.

[davidinalameda]

21. no it's not

it's very conservative

the state if run by DINOs

if they lived anywhere else, they'd be Republicans

[pnwmom]

31. It's a recent idea that to be a "real" Democrat you must

be a liberal.

This is an idea promoted by partisans such as Rove and Gingritch. I don't buy it. Conservative Democrats are still Democrats.

[FredScuttle]

60. No Democrat opposes civil rights for all

or are you from the Dixiecrat school of Conservative Democratic philosophy?

[pnwmom]

64. You're right. I can't think of a single Democrat

who opposes civil rights. So?

[FredScuttle]

Harold Ford does

n/t

[pnwmom]

67. He supports civil rights

in the exact same manner that John F. Kennedy did.

[FredScuttle]

69. Ha!

Ford is to JFK as Rob Schneider is to Lawrence Olivier.

[pnwmom]

74. What is the difference of their positions on civil rights?

I'd like to know.

[FredScuttle]

75. June 11, 1963 - JFK intervened when Wallace barred blacks from attending U. of Alabma

Kennedy called in the federal marshals when Wallace defied a federal order.

I'd like to see Ford show as much balls as JFK did there.

[pnwmom]

77. Oh yeah? Well what did JFK do for gays?

Like my father. Or children of gays? Like me?

That's the only issue you appear to care about.

(The answer: nothing.)

[FredScuttle]

79. Historical comparisons are lost on you, aren't they?

JFK faced the civil rights movement of blacks in the early 1960's. While he didn't do nearly enough, he set into motion what became the Civil Rights Act.

What the fuck has Harold Ford done for the modern times civil rights movement?

[pnwmom]

86. The South is behind the times on gay civil rights,

I'll concede that. It will be a while before they catch up to New York and Massachusetts, among other proud blue states.

But you have no basis for saying that JFK would have been particularly liberal on the issue. Ted is more liberal in many ways than his brother was. He gave up his Presidential ambitions long ago, which freed him to be as liberal -- in blue Massachusetts -- as he wanted him to be.

[SouthernBelle82]

95. And I didn't know

you could now speak for JFK. Kennedy isn't here now to discuss the issue of gay rights. The only person who could come close to speaking on his behalf is Senator Kennedy.

[SouthernBelle82]

94. And Ford has that power where now?

I didn't know Ford had that type of power now. Wow!

[CTLawGuy]

101. Well

Wasn't wallace just doing what he had to do to get elected? :eyes:

[davidinalameda]

84. I agree BUT

some of the legislators in WV make some Republicans look down right liberal

[pnwmom]

88. Paul Krugman, the Princeton economist, wrote a great essay

on why this is the year for a straight party line ticket. Did you see it? He can explain it much better than I.

But the gist is -- if you care about Congressional oversight, if you care about reining in the Bush administration -- then your only hope is to bring Democrats back into power. Krugman says this isn't the year to vote for a guy based on the fact that he's good on the issues -- but on whether he has an R or a D by his name. If you like the way Bush has been doing things, then vote for the R's, and you'll get more of the same. If you don't -- then vote for the Democrat, regardless of what else you might think about him. Every vote for a D increases our chances of taking the House and/or Senate and opening investigations and having hearings and getting subpoena power. Every vote for a D is a vote to check Bush's power.

[davidinalameda]

99. honestly is every "D" a check on Bush

I don't think so

remember back in the early 80s after Reagan took office, there were plenty of Democrats who sided with him

you had nearly the entire Democratic Congress vote for the war in Iraq, or whatever the vote authorized

you still have Democrats, and no, I'm not talking about Lieberman, who want to "stay the course" as much as Bush does

[pnwmom]

100. Counted individually, no. But that's not the most important

count. The most important count will be immediately after the election, when we see who holds the majority of spots in the House and the Senate: the Democrats or the Republicans.

If we gain a majority in either House of Congress, we will have Committee Chairmanships and subpoena power. That's what we need to have in order to exercise Congressional oversight and to put a check on this administration.

On individual votes, any Congressman may disappoint any of us. But all of them will be EQUALLY helpful in helping us to gain a majority position in the House and Senate.

[davidinalameda]

102. subpoena power?

that's your main concern?

how about just trying to do what's right

I for one really don't want to see a replay of the last few years of the Clinton administration in which not a whole heck of a lot was accomplished because the Repukes were so concerned about getting Clinton

[pnwmom]

108. Then you're not going to be very happy with the next two years

either, because the name of the game will be "compromise."

We are likely to take only the House. To pass anything, we'll have to work with a Republican Senate. But let's assume we take the Senate, too. We're still stuck with that Presidential veto power. He can veto whatever he wants, and we won't have the votes to override.

So get used to the idea of lots of negotiating and lots of bargaining and compromising. But it's still better than the situation we have now, where we are completely -- 100% -- cut out of the equation.

I urge you to read this Rolling Stone article, for a description of the "revolutionary" changes that the Republicans have made over the Bush years, in the way that Congress works. You'll see why we'll be better off in a D led Congress, even if we have to compromise.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12055360/cover_story_time_to_go_inside_the_worst_congress_ever/1

But the 109th Congress is no mild departure from the norm, no slight deviation in an already-underwhelming history. No, this is nothing less than a historic shift in how our democracy is run. The Republicans who control this Congress are revolutionaries, and they have brought their revolutionary vision for the House and Senate quite unpleasantly to fruition. In the past six years they have castrated the political minority, abdicated their oversight responsibilities mandated by the Constitution, enacted a conscious policy of massive borrowing and unrestrained spending, and installed a host of semipermanent mechanisms for transferring legislative power to commercial interests. They aimed far lower than any other Congress has ever aimed, and they nailed their target.

"The 109th Congress is so bad that it makes you wonder if democracy is a failed experiment," says Jonathan Turley, a noted constitutional scholar and the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington Law School. "I think that if the Framers went to Capitol Hill today, it would shake their confidence in the system they created. Congress has become an exercise of raw power with no principles -- and in that environment corruption has flourished. The Republicans in Congress decided from the outset that their future would be inextricably tied to George Bush and his policies. It has become this sad session of members sitting down and drinking Kool-Aid delivered by Karl Rove. Congress became a mere extension of the White House."

The end result is a Congress that has hijacked the national treasury, frantically ceded power to the executive, and sold off the federal government in a private auction. It all happened before our very eyes.

SNIP

ON EDIT: Subpoena power goes to much more than investigating Bush personally. Committee chairmen are the ones who decide what will be investigated; who/what is subpoenaed. when public, private, or no hearings will be held. If these years were normal, we would have had many hearings on Iraq by now -- that might have led to our not going into war in the first place. We would have had more hearings on 9/11, Katrina, etc. The reason we haven't is because the Republicans have been setting the agenda. One more thing about Committee Chairman: they decide when and IF legislation ever comes up for a vote. With Democratic committee chairmen, the Military Commissions Act (the anti Habeas Corpus torture bill) would have been dead in the water.

[davidinalameda]

114. I have no problem with compromise

on certain issues but certainly not on issues like basic civil rights

[pnwmom]

115. As long as Bush is President he'll veto any change

in the marriage laws. You can count on that.

[davidinalameda]

116. I think he would too

but I have to believe that some Democrats, like Ford, would vote against any changes in federal marriage laws like DOMA

[SouthernBelle82]

93. I agree

I used to think Ford was a DINO myself but than I started listening to him and following his career. Even though I don't like some of the things he has voted for and/or against I don't think it's right calling him a DINO. Just more conservative. It's like when everybody on the right calls anyone in opposition to the Bush's and/or the republicans a liberal. It's not a true label because there are all sorts of people who are critical and against Bush and the republicans who aren't liberal.

[hollowdweller]

107. The Bottom Line

In most instances in rural areas the Democrats who are taking some positions that might be considered conservative are doing it because it reflects the sentiments of their constituency.

While I am for gay marriage, pro choice, and numerous other left wing pinko issues, overall stuff like people losing their penisons, health care, banning permanent replacement workers, penalties for outsourcing jobs, raising the minimum wage getting out of Iraq I feel are issue where we have traction and can actually do something. Most socially conservative Democrats are still with the party on these issues so I don't have any problems with voting for them.

I am much more concerned with electing people who will stop the corrupting influence of money in our elections and who will stop corporations from controlling us.

[hollowdweller]

105. DINO's true but they pretty much support the party on the populist issues.

I do wish we still had a few more like Charlotte Pritt, David Grubb, Ken Hechler.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. West Virginia has gone Republican in the last decade

To give you an idea, Michael Dukakis carried it but neither Kerry or Gore did.

[pnwmom]

43. Wow. Dukakis but not Gore. Hey, maybe it's some kind of

liberal bastion. Do you think?

:sarcasm:

[hollowdweller]

106. Gore was much more openly anti gun than Dukakis

Also Dukakis came from humble beginning where Gore had a daddy in politics just like Bush.

[geek tragedy]

16. In all fairness, Wes Clark has never been elected to anything

in his life.

[Clarkie1]

52. That's something in his favor, should he decide to run again. nt

[pnwmom]

18. Because that kind of blind idealism won't get you elected.

Sad, but true.

Anyone who doubts that should think about Nader's history standing up for what he thought was right, without regard to practical consequences. Did that help us in 2000 or 2004? No, it just put us deeper into the hole.

[ContraCommando]

24. “how about doing what's right instead of what's popular”

No offense intended, but we’ve been doing that, and unfortunately, it doesn’t get you any power. I wish we could more often - but I’m not sure this country could take more of HTH King George W Gump's congress: trillions wasted cutting the taxes of the super elite, started an endless oil war in Iraq, broke the law repeatedly, let corporate fat cats like Murdoch buy up the media, Enron, lobbying scandals, wiretapping, North Korean debacle, Darfur (ignored), America hated by everyone, operation: drop in the bucket (doing nothing to conserve and make us less dependent on oil), global warming ignored, religious nut jobs running the government, …………………..

I’ll take a Ford victory if I can get it, definitely.

[pnwmom]

32. Me, too. Welcome to DU, ContraCommando!

[Auntie Bush]

33. Welcome aboard Contra!

:hi: Glad to see you have the bush* crimes and blunders down pat.
You're going to love it here. :)

[Lochloosa]

39. Thank you

and a VERY BIG WELCOME TO DU:toast:
\
because when it comes down to it we will need all the Democrats we can find. DINOS OR NOT

Everyone forgets that President Clinton was NOT convicted by a Senate controlled by the Repubs.

[WCGreen]

37. I whole heartedly agree with you....

Each district, each state is different...

What brings us together is that almost all democrats agree on one thing, we must protect and build the middle class...

That is the first step into taking back our country...

[pnwmom]

49. "There's nothing 'normal' about a middle class"

Did you see this essay by Thom Hartmann today? I think you'll be interested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-hartmann/theres-nothing-normal-_b_32532.html

"That liberty which is to go to all, and not to the few or the rich alone." --Thomas Jefferson to Horatio Gates, 1798.

There is nothing "normal" about a nation having a middle class, even though it is vital to the survival of democracy.

As twenty-three years of conservative economic policies have now shown millions of un- and underemployed Americans, what's "normal" in a "free and unfettered" economy is the rapid evolution of a small but fabulously wealthy ownership class, and a large but poor working class.

In the entire history of civilization, outside of a small mercantilist class and the very few skilled tradesmen who'd managed to organize in guilds (the earliest unions) like the ancient Masons, the middle class was an aberration.

SNIP

[WCGreen]

58. But there has been a substantial Middle Class in the US

since the early 1900's...

The Depression years, of course, weakened the Middle Class, but in order to preserve the money for those at the top, there has to be a Thriving Middle Class to purchase stuff...

Warren Buffett took his class to task today about the perverse need to hoard money...

I look at it more like the old Edgar Allen Poe Short Story, the Masque of the Red Death...

where all the elite gathered in the palace to wait out the Plague... Thinking their money and status mattered... I see the same thing here developing... Throw in Calvanism and you have the elite of the GOP...

[pnwmom]

66. That's exactly what the article addresses.

Roosevelt helped bring about a strong middle class. Ever since the Reagan presidency, the Republicans have working to destroy it.

[pnwmom]

17. If you're going to write off every conservative Southern Democrat

you might as well write off the Democratic party.

We should be going back to the days when we all were working together. It's the only way we'll be able to fight back against the Rethugs.

[DeSwiss]

22. pnwmom, you said it...

...you too Clark2008. Actually I felt a lot like dwickham until last week. It was YOU, pnwmom in another thread on this topic, that remnded me what this is really about. Control. If we have any chance at all of capturing the Senate, we need Dems in control. Bottom line. I don't agree with all of Jr's positions either. Particularly regarding gay marriage. But the reality is that won't get him elected here in Tennessee. We're the buckle on the Bible Belt. But I voted for him anyway. Yeah, I'm done -- early voted last week.

Now go kick some ass Jr!!!

:grr:

[pnwmom]

34. Thank you, DeSwiss.

It's going to be an awful stressful 12 days waiting for this election to be over -- but your post gave me a little boost. Here's an article in Rolling Stone that I've been pushing today. I think it does a really terrific job explaining what has happened to Congress in the last six years. It's called, "The Worst Congress Ever," and describes the truly revolutionary way the Rethugs have gone about dismantling Congress and turning it into an arm of the Executive branch.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12055360/cover_story_time_to_go_inside_the_worst_congress_ever/1

I just got my absentee ballot today! Going to go vote!

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. I mailed mine today pnwmom....

and I feel great! I'm a lifelong Democrat, and I fear I may not be liberal enough for some? Hope I don't have to pass any "purity tests". I think we should put aside the dem-bashing at this point, & hammer out our differences after Nov. 7th....

[pnwmom]

44. Any Tarheel who votes Democratic

is plenty liberal enough for me! Great to hear from you. I'm starting to feel a little more hopeful. If only I could trust those damn machines . . . because I have no doubt the PEOPLE are with us.

[DeSwiss]

45. pnwmom, you're welcome...

....and I'm no spring chicken either. My first vote was cast against Tricky Dick in 72' so I should have known better. But the diminution of political discourse these days had taken its toll on me. Thanks for the booster shot!

And thanks also for the link. I previously had seen that article on HuffPo but never got around to it until I saw your thread.

:yourock:

[pnwmom]

48. I was just starting college in that year

so I remember the disappointment very well. What a ride it has been since then. I could never have imagined the last six years, could you?

You know, it's pretty easy being a Democrat out here in liberal-land. (Though our state is a swing state, this side of the mountains is a very nice shade of blue.) So I salute you and all the others trying to keep your cool out there in red country.

:loveya:

:hug:

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

68. Ford isn't a racist, and you know it.

[FredScuttle]

71. Well, why is he following in their footsteps?

n/t

[pnwmom]

76. Why are you holding all conservative Democrats responsible

for creeps like Strom Thurmond?

There you are in NY, looking down your nose at Democrats in Tennessee. Must be fun.

[FredScuttle]

78. If the shoe fits....

Conservative Democrats have gotten us where as a national party? Nowhere. And, I don't look down on anyone and I don't pretend that I live in a liberal oasis. But I'm proud to live in a state that better men and women than me have given their sweat and blood and lives to make an equal society for all. I honor their sacrifice...I don't wallow in complacency and vote for clowns like Harold Ford simply because he isn't a Neanderthal like the Republican opponent.

[pnwmom]

81. You will never have to make a choice between people

like Corker and a conservative Democrat BECAUSE you live in New York. How special of you.

But Tennesseans live in Tennessee and I'm happy that they have a Democatic candidate who might actually win -- as opposed to Al Gore, who couldn't carry the state in the last Presidential election, as I'm sure you know.

And if Ford does win, he might be the guy who puts us over the top in the Senate. If we're all celebrating in two weeks, it will be in part because of people like Harold Ford -- who just isn't good enough for you.

[FredScuttle]

83. So I should stand up and applaud because your candidate opposes civil rights?

excuse me if I don't

If the voting population of Tennessee doesn't see how ruinous three decades of voting Republican has been to the state, don't blame me for pointing out the folly of supporting a "Democratic" candidate who opposes civil rights for Americans.

[pnwmom]

87. The only folly would be to look a gift Tenneseean Senator

in the mouth.

There's no folly to supporting a Democrat for Senator who could help bring people Ted Kennedy and Patrick Leahy back into power.

Do you honestly think Ford's positions on issues are going to matter, as long as Bush is President? Even if we do win, you can be sure that you won't like any of the legislation that the Democrats manage to pass through compromise with the Republicans and under the threat of Bush's veto. It certainly won't be blue enough for you.

However -- the worst of the Repub bills -- such as the Military Commissions Act, with its destruction of Habeaus Corpus -- will never make it out of the Committee. The worst of the Judicial nominees will stay in the chute. And the Committee chairman will once again have subpoena power, and the ability to open up the windows and clean up some of the worst rot that is festering there.

[5thGenDemocrat]

112. I come from a long line of Southern Dems

That is, after all, the reason I'm a fifth-generation Democrat.
My great-great-grandfather fought for the Confederacy at the Battle of Fort Donelson. Captured, he spent three years in the Yankee POW camp at Rock Island, Illinois -- nearly dying of exposure and dysentery, but somehow surviving to become the oldest Presbyterian minister in the Commonwealth of Kentucky at the time of his death in, like, 1929. He only joined up after Union troops marched into his county.
Another branch of the family owned slaves. They ran the largest rice plantation in the Carolinas at one time.
I'm related in some torturous way to Thomas Lynch, who signed the Declaration of Independence for South Carolina. I don't remember how exactly -- he and his wife had no children (they drowned when their ship sank crossing the Atlantic enroute to France in 1780-something, BTW).
The family tree also includes such fine old southern names as Seaman and Hamby. We fought alongside both Francis Marion in the Waxhaws and Andrew Jackson in New Orleans and we voted for Breckenridge in 1860.
So, yeah, I know I'm a mossback compared to some of the bomb-throwers who inhabit DU nowadays. That's probably why I hardly ever post here any more. But I'm still a Democrat to my bone marrow and so are the two generations who come after me. I suspect there are millions of old-style Dems of Southern descent who, like me, don't exactly trust Washington and who believe, like Jefferson, that "that government is best which governs least." Nashville understands Tennessee better than Washington does, and one size doesn't fit all. The Federal government is out of control and the GOP isn't what it professes itself to be.
Good government? You've got to be kidding.
Balanced budget? Not in our lifetimes.
Strong military? Christ -- we're fighting a war with the National Guard and the Reserves. They should be filling sandbags and getting kittens out of trees.
The South is Democratic and what's going on in Washington today under the Republicans is just reminding it of that. And maybe Southern-style Dems are more conservative than some here would like but they're still Dem to their DNA. Race (and miscegenation) just isn't the most important card to Southerners any more and I think there are an awful lot of Tennesseans ready to support a Democrat -- any Democrat -- this year.
We're going to do just fine, thank you. Harold Ford's still an enormous step left of, say, George Wallace, Richard Russell or James Eastland. I'd say he's more like Bill Clinton or -- hell -- Huey Long, and that's good enough for me.
John
Who was born in Michigan but who can still recognize Southern populism when he sees it.

[Tiggeroshii]

28. He will not be making the major decisions

Think about who WILL if he's elected.

[pnwmom]

85. Voting for the anti-gay marriage amendment does not mean

he doesn't care about gays and lesbians.

It means that he decided to vote in the way that the people in his district overwhelmingly wanted him to. He was supposed to be representing the interests of his district. If he didn't, he probably wouldn't have kept his job.

That was also the reason Clinton signed the Federal law. Not because he doesn't support lesbians and gays, but because to do otherwise would have just invited a backlash -- the threat he was trying to avoid was an amendment to the Constitution of the U.S., which could have doomed gay rights for decades, if not forever.

These are the kinds of decisions politicians have to make. This is why idealists hate politicians. Oh well.

[SouthernBelle82]

91. I don't think he's a DINO

I used to think he was one but after watching him in this race I do think he's a democrat just more conservative. A lot of democrats now days in politics are moderate or conservative. In my opinion it's rare to find a person who is a liberal and will announce it to the world. So because he voted for an amendment that means he doesn't care? Have you asked him why he voted for it? I admit I haven't read the amendment so I don't know why. As I have said myself there are a good number of issues I disagree with Ford on but the fact still remains that he is the democratic candidate for the Senate here in TN and he is who the voters chose. If you don't like it why don't you come here to TN, become a resident and be able to vote in the primary's?

[DuaneBidoux]

103. I agree but...

any Democrat, no matter how they vote, gets us closer to getting our leadership at the top of all the committees. That's all I'm thinking about now. And we have to face the fact that liberals will never be common in the retrograde South.

[ContraCommando]

20. I agree.

Republicans have liberal senators like Chafee and Snow; they know that having a majority in the most powerful branch of government is often more important than any one senator’s or representative’s political beliefs. That Harold Ford vote for the democrats to take the senate is important - we could block nominees as well as take control of the committees.

[blondeatlast]

27. Excellent reply. I'm in a red state too, and all I can think about is:

Set the agenda.

[SharonAnn]

47. I proudly voted for him! And I'm about as liberal as they come in TN.

He's a Democrat, bright, articulate, feisty, doesn't take sh*t from the right-wing, and will be a great Senator.

Unfortunately, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Barney Frank, Bernie Sanders aren't running here.

Besides, we're Democrats! We have room for various points of view and lively discussions/debates among our elected officials. Frankly, we all get better results when we have a variety of views represented in decision making processes.

[pnwmom]

51. I totally agree, SharonAnn

The more points of view we can include, the better. Whatever happened to people valuing the idea of negotiating and compromising?

[SouthernBelle82]

90. Exactly

I'm tired of it too as a Tennesseean voter. Ford won his primary and is doing the hard work. He isn't the perfect liberal candidate I wish for (my dream) but this is Tennessee. And Ford is being as real as possible to people. He isn't a liberal but I personally haven't heard him bash us either but just stating the truth which is what we need in a politician now days. There are a good number of things I personally disagree with him on but he will do the better job for this state and we need someone who cares about health care and balancing a budget and that Ford seems to care about. Sometime last year I believe it was (or earlier this year) I saw him on CSPAN ripping some Bush crony about the budget and that's when I started watching him. I think he will do a better job at listening to Tennessee voters and really doing their business in DC unlike Corker. He is not for "Staying the course" In Iraq even though I disagree with his plan he at least has something and historical history to point to as well to show people. Plus it would be nice to have a democrat as my senator. He will also be the first black man to serve the state of Tennessee as a Senator if he wins on Nov 7th.

[Elidor]

109. Do you seriously mean to say

That people who don't live in Tennessee aren't allowed to criticize Ford? That's just absurd. "Oh, you just can't imagine what it's like here in Tennessee: we have to run people like Ford if we want to win. And since you don't live here, you're just smearing my state." Gee. :eyes:

Here's a thought: Albert Gore, Jr. You might remember him. Fairly liberal guy. Elected to the House 4 times. Elected to the Senate twice. Proof positive that you don't have to be a torture-loving, anti-gay marriage, wanna-ban-flag-burning, wingnut wannabe-republican to win office in the great state of Tennessee.

I've lived in Tennessee for fourteen years, and I say: Harold Ford is a fucking piece of shit. And I really have to wonder how the state party couldn't pull anything better out of its collective ass than this wretched excuse for a democrat. People who slam Ford aren't slamming Tennessee: they're slamming Ford, and by extension the Tennessee Democratic party. And they're quite justified in doing so, regardless of where they live.

[pnwmom]

110. Gore is great, but he didn't carry Tennessee in his own

Presidential election, as a favorite son candidate. Apparently, he and Tennessee no longer see eye-to-eye.

[cnlst8]

25. Let's be realistic here.

If there was a liberal candidate as the Democratic challenger he wouldn't have a chance in this race. TN is a conservative state and has been trending that way more over the years. Heck, even Al Gore couldn't pick up this state and he was their former senator.
I too don't agree with some of the Ford's issues, but for a Dem to win here he must be moderate (or least show it.) Remember that if Ford gonna win he must sway over conservative voters.

[pnwmom]

56. Another voice of reason. Welcome to DU!

[blondeatlast]

26. You live in CA. You have the luxury of "pure" D-ness.

Those of us in red states have to think of three words:

Set the agenda.
Set the agenda.
Set the agenda.

[Claire Beth]

36. It won't happen....

in TN or any other place in the south. I hear what you are saying but a liberal candidate wouldn't stand a chance. Ford is definitely better than the other choice however.
GO FORD!

:dem:

[Samantha]

40. Harold Ford is in exactly the same position Gore was in when he first ran

for Congress in Tennessee. Gore had to take positions reflective of the constituency in order to win the seat. He voted as his constituents wanted, although on many of the issues, his vote did not reflect his personal opinion. He wrote later about the frustration he felt at having to support stances on issues he personally felt were wrong, but represented the mindset of those he had been sent to Congress to represent.

Later, as he gained some what of a standing and could break away from the constituents somewhat and ARGUE for the position he personally felt was the correct posture, he was able to stay in office while gently trying to explain why the people of Tennessee should be able to consider changing their views on certain political debates. It was a long arduous process. As a person from Tennessee, believe me, I have an acute sense of this phenomenon, since my relatives are very politically naive, but very, very conservative on issues of the day.

When Gore did mature as a politician and a man of standing, and took political positions opposed to those of his early years, he was accused of flip flopping. Nothing could have been farther from the truth. He simply stopped voting all of the time as the conservative people of Tennessee wanted, and on truly important issues, he voted his conscience.

I think Ford has taken a page from the Gore playbook for his own political survival, but as he "matures" and gains his own standing, just like Gore, he will "work" on his constituents, to look at matters perhaps in a more broader-minded way.

To say it's difficult to be a liberal and be elected from the State of Tennessee is a remarkable understatement; if Ford can pull it off, he will go far.

[pnwmom]

62. What an informative post, Samantha. Thanks.

I learned a lot.

[frogcycle]

104. i am sick and tired

of people wanting a bunch of ideological stepford wife candidates - on either side.
I want reasonable, thinking, intelligent people who are able to look at all aspects of an issue. Harold Ford is one of those. just because someone is able to recite every far-left mantra you can think of, that does not make him/her competent to deal with whatever as-yet-undefined emergency we may one day face. i want LEADERS, not followers.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

111. Interesting post.

:toast:
I salute you for posting this. It really made me stop to think about the "big tent" philosophy that we espouse, but sometimes forget in the midst of our idealism. I would love a candidate who would vote 100% for what I'd like. But, I fear that the candidate that would do so would actually be me. And I don't want to run at this point in my life. Pehaps in a few years, but at this point, I enjoy the numbers crunching and serious planning of the behind the scenes candidate support and GOTV necessities to gain the strategic coalitions necessary to win on an issue by issue vote as part of an elective official's team.

Maybe one day I will run. Posts like this make me want to do so.

[frogcycle]

113. well thanks

I expected to get flamed!

maybe not a perfect analogy, but there is a school of thought in athletics that when drafting new players, you draft the best athletes, not necessarily the positions you need to improve on your team.

I would much rather have a representative with whom i disagree on a specific position, but with whom I feel serious dialogue on the topic would be possible. As you say, someone who agrees perfectly with me would be.... me! (well, not all the time - sometimes even I disagree with me :) )

[longship]

2. Excellent move on his part.

Even if he *is* giving comfort to that lunatic InsHannity.

[Clark2008]

4. Correct. Dems need not be afraid of appearing on these

shows.

You can't gain new voters by preaching to the choir and I KNOW there are moderate Republicans fed up with the Republican Congress who listen to this show.

Heck, in Tennessee, we don't HAVE any liberal shows on the radio, so one HAS to do these shows to be heard.

[AlCzervik]

5. i don't blame him, it's media coverage, what saddens me is that a huge

asshole like Hannity has a radio and tv show. Good luck Harold, don't take any of Hannity's shit.

[NewInNewJ.]

9. I voted for him already!

I am much more liberal then he is, but I will never vote for a Republican.
Corker is a joke. I have been phone banking and canvassing for him also. I love it.

[pnwmom]

35. Good for you!

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

23. for and hannity have been friends for years

often having dinners together.

i don't trust ford. he's going to be another lieberman.

[FrenchieCat]

29. It's not about just Ford....it's about Dems being able to set the agenda.....

However Ford votes, at least he'll be voting on what Dems decides is important and needs to bring brought forth....like Minimum wages, Global Warming, etc.....

Otherwise, Ford loses, we stay in the minority, and BushCo and Rubberstamp congress keep doing their thing!

There are not many option, and trusting Ford ain't what his election is really about. We need a certain number of seats...his being one of them. It's really that simple.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

30. i realize that

i hope he wins, but i wish someone else had the dem nomination there.
conservative dem is one thing; being in bed with hannity=zell/lieberman redux

[pnwmom]

53. All I ask of the Dem nominee in Tennessee is that he win.

If he can do that, he'll suit this northwesterner just fine.

Think about it: if we had Democrats in charge of all the committees, the Military Commissions Act -- among others -- would never have made it out for a vote. it would have been dead on arrival.

I'll love any conservative Southern Democrat who helps put John Conyers, Ted Kennedy, et al in charge of committees.

[FredScuttle]

57. Conservative Southern Democrats: A Proud History

Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, George Wallace, Orval Faubus and Zell Miller....yeah, quite a proud pantheon Harold's joining.

I can't understand how he can be applauded for appeasing the same people who would have gladly seen him hung from a tree 40 years ago.

[pnwmom]

61. Those were racists. You're not accusing Harold Ford of

racism, are you?

Harold Ford will be joining many other Democrats whom "progressives" have, at some time or other, deemed to be "Republican lite" or "too conservative." Democrats like Bill Clinton, Al Gore, (who the far-left claimed was just like Bush), and Jimmy Carter. I'm not going to look down my nose at him for not being liberal enough. He's not representing Seattle, he's wants to represent Tennessee.

[FredScuttle]

65. You tell me....you seem to want him to toe that line

I wouldn't call Harold Ford a racist, but his rhetoric on civil rights for gay Americans echoes the disgusting words used by those men to deny civil rights to Americans a half century ago.

Comparing Harold Ford to enlightened Southerners like Clinton, Gore and Carter is laughable.

[pnwmom]

70. Oh yeah? I seem to remember

Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act.

And I didn't blame him for that either. Neither did my gay father.

Politics ain't pretty.

[FredScuttle]

72. Politics ain't pretty....neither is being on the wrong side of history

Ford, if he wins, will be a speedbump on the path to equality. Better he get with the winning side than throwing his lot in with the ingrained retardation that is the "Conservative Democratic" way.

[pnwmom]

80. Can't you get it through your head?:

If Ford wins Tennessee, we may take the Senate. That means that a Democratic Senate will be in charge of approving any appointments to the Supreme Court or the federal judiciary. Don't you think that would be CRITICAL to any changes in Federal laws with respect to lesbians and gays and their families?

If Ford wins Tennessee, and we take the Senate, then people like Ted Kennedy and Pat Leahy and Barney Frank will be chairing committees. Bills like the Military Commissions Act won't even come up for a vote.

When I see Harold Ford, I see him standing alongside Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy and Pat Leahy. And that picture looks awfully good to me.

[FredScuttle]

82. We need a lot more than Ford to win the Senate

and if you think Ford is going to have some sudden epiphany and stand with Teddy and Leahy as the liberal bastions of government, you are smoking something a lot stronger than I am.

Ford will be a DINO traitor every step of the way because it will be an endless cycle....he had to run as a Republican-lite to win office and he'll have to legislate as a Republican-lite to retain office.

[pnwmom]

89. He'll be standing with Kennedy and Leahy when they take

the count that will matter more than any other -- the one that determines whether Democrats have a majority in the Senate. As I explained, his votes on individual pieces of legislation won't be nearly as important as this simple fact -- whether or not we get a majority. And he comes from one of the three states that are critical to our ability to get the 51 votes. (Virginia is the second one; I can't remember the third.)

Get over the pipedream that we'll suddenly have a lot of liberal legislation if we win. That won't happen as long as a Republican is President (even if all our candidates WERE as liberal as you would like), because Bush can always exercise his veto power. And we won't have enough votes, no matter what happens, to override.

[Telly Savalas]

117. And if the conservative voters to whom he supposedly must pander

see him standing alongside Frank, Kennedy, and Leahy like you do, why won't they reject him? If they have no problems with the guy standing alongside real liberals, then why is Ford so afraid of showing any signs of being a liberal himself?

[Eric J in MN]

41. Ford and Corker have debated. I saw it on C-Span (NT)

NT

[pnwmom]

55. What did you think about how it went?

[Eric J in MN]

63. I thought Harold Ford came across better.

He seemed more energetic and passionate.

There was one bit which made me want to barf, though, in which Harold Ford boasted that he voted to authorize military force in Iraq, while noting parenthetically that the intelligence was wrong.

"Only one man on this stage has voted to authorize military force, and that's me" (almost word for word)

[pnwmom]

73. Well

that was unfortunate! But when I hear Harold Ford -- I think "Ted Kennedy" and "Pat Leahy" -- helping to run the Senate again. That's why I'd vote for him, if it were up to me.

Plus Corker is such a jerk. It's not like it's a tough call.

[osaMABUSh]

50. You mean on Sean 'He said cracker' Hannity ?

Hannity tried to create a Mucaca moment for Harold Ford - nice try you moran.

[pnwmom]

54. How did he try to do that?

[KamaAina]

98. So is Insannity playing tom-tom drums as bumper music?

I seriously would not be surprised.