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Hey Pelosi! Impeach or be impeached!

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Eye See You Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:26 PM
Original message
Hey Pelosi! Impeach or be impeached!
This drives me up the wall when confronted with this question when
you are talking about impeachment of Bush & Cheney: What did he do?
When that question is asked, my mind just shuts down! It is such a
absurd question that one becomes speechless. Well, you start out with
the question: What didn't he do? Of course, you start out with the
most oblivious: He lied about the WMD's in Iraq. Don't start there,
start from the year 2000.
1. Conflict of interest: He knowingly gave private compies access to
tax payers money with, "No bid contracts". Companies like Halliburton
and Enron and much more.
2. Criminal negligence: He was warn about the 9-11 attacks 76 times
and did nothing! The victims of the hurricane Katrina were ignored.
He was warned about the dikes breaking weeks before it happened.
3. Divulging a CIA agent identity: His underlings outed Val Plaims
CIA idenity. This is a treasonous act.
4.Violating a citizens right to privacy: Contracy to GOP propaganda,
wire taping phones WAS NOT strictly for AL-Queada operatives but to
citizens groups and churches like the Quakers.
5. Defrauding the elections. Bush/Cheney knew about fixing the
elections by Karl Rove. They are accessories to the crime.
6. Grand theft: Bush/Cheney has misappropriated the U.S treasury for
private profit.
7. Giving aid and comfort to the Enemies of the U.S.A.
For example; Giving the Bin Laden family a safe harbor after the 9-11
attacks. Supporting terorists states like Saudi Arabia who violates
Human rights more than Iran.
8. Subverting the U.S Constitution: Violating all the first 10
Amendments. Bush/Cheney took a oath to defend the Constitution not to
abolish it. They violated that oath.
9. Murder: Sending soldiers to their death without justified cause.
Genocide against innocent Iraqi people with massive bombings.
10. Torture: Torturing innocent civilians in secret locations
violating their right with cruel and usual punishment.

And there is more, much more. In the event that the house gets a
majority and Nancy Polesi becomes the majority leader, then she must
proceed in impeachment hearing or we will impeach her!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Enronscam/
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yawn.
A new poster trying to stir shit up? Imagine that?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm sure Nancy is aware of their crimes.
This is strategy, pure and simple. We don't want to give them a talking point to rally their base to get out their vote, right? Nancy WILL do oversight and begin investigations on their pile of felonies. And then anything could happen.
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Monkeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Right on target
We openly say Impeachment we lose thats plain enough
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. There's no point in helping to GOTV for the Republicans. n/t
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pwb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. judge not yest thee be judged
lets get her in first.

to claim that now would be foolish and play right into roves hand..
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, let's bash Democrats. It's the new Triangulation Theory.
You get Republicans to bash a Dem as too liberal, liberals to bash them as too conservative, and Voila! The Republican wins by default.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh please, get over it - you don't have a fricking clue
Right now the focus of the media INCLUDING the right-wing screeds is still not only on Mark Foley diddling pages but the fact that the Iraq was is heading south.

You get Nancy Pelosi out there on a soapbox claiming "Democrats will impeach Bush when we win the majority" and you can kiss that idea goodbye because it'll turn away voters in droves.

For the umpteenth million time so if you don't know this, why not bookmark the thread and refer back to it.

Nancy Pelosi has nothing to do with who gets impeached - that decision would go to the house Judicary Committee which IF we can win the senate would be John Conyers
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. not to mention that to convict...
we need 2/3 of the Senators...and we won't have that during Bush's term.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's very true too however we can still investigate
and perhaps if some of the repukes see Bush as a sinking ship they may jump on board.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. yes, and Pelosi never said there wouldn't be investigations
I actually think that 1st, it's not her call, as it starts in the Judiciary Committee, and 2nd, she's not really saying it would NEVER happen, just that it's not something she's planning or that's a focus.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Here's how the Repigs could jump on board the Impeachment Train
Once Conyers subpoenas Bush and the administration for documents and other evidence, Bush may try to invoke the Executive Privilege Card that doing such a legal matter could make national security "at risk". That would imply that Bush thinks that the White House has more power than Congress and is not an equal branch, let alone that Conyers would be doing the investigations behind closed doors anyway. That would be ANOTHER impeachable offense.

It is then that enough Repigs might peel off the Bush Shill Machine and join in the fun.

Unless we have martial law or some other kind of Pearl Harbor-type event that occurs, it's all very possible.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Did you mentioned "Pearl Harbor event?"
Now I don't believe that 9/11 was LIHOP/MIHOP, I wouldn't put it passed them to allow something to happen to stop impeachment.
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Eye See You Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. I'm over it and it's you that don't have a clue!
Pragmatism kills a revolution!
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. Hey, I understand - believe me, I'm with you
I know a lot of Democrats believe that downplaying impeachment talk is good strategy, but I also believe that it's possible to downplay it so much that it vanishes completely.

The first thing we need to do is taken back the House and Senate. Then we hold the Democrats' feet to the fire to make sure investigations - and impeachment - are what the American people demand.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
40. They will never get over it.
Impeachment is the be-all and end-all to some peoples' lives here. That's all they live for.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ah, another Green Party member in the making... n/t
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why is it this kind of POSTER never has a profile ?

Answer: Because they are just simple minded bullies that need attention.

P.S. - I am sorry your parents don't like you.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Seriously
Nothing more than a post to instigate us democrats in hopes that we give up about the midterm elections. I won't put up with that one at all!
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Eye See You Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Why is it this kind of POSTER never has a profile ?
I am my own parent! What are you? A NSA spy?
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. They're just too CONCERNED to bother making one
:eyes: Yeah, that's the ticket.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. Whatever . . .
Now run along and work on your articles of impeachment against Nancy Pelosi - rest of us have some real work to do . . .
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Way to out yourself!!!
:nopity:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-26-06 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ahem--could you please return to this thread sometime soon?
I'm hearing crickets...

Not a good sign, especially when you are trying to drum up hits to your site.

FWIW, I didn't click on the link and until we see you answer some of the replies here, I won't, either.
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Eye See You Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Go click the link!
Other wise kiss my left wing ass!
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. The only way your ass is left-wing
Edited on Fri Oct-27-06 02:30 PM by Moochy
is if it's wrapped around from the right side... (sounds painful by the way)
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Members of the legislative branch are not subject to impeachment
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hijinx87 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. as far as congressional leadership after the takeover goes . . .

I trust pelosi infinitely more than reid. her bona fides are unquestionable. reid always seems to be behind the curve, rather than ahead pushing our agenda.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. cart before horse
First we have an investigation, which Pelosi has promised. Then we find if impeachment is the remedy.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. Impeachment IS Our Positive Agenda!
Notifying us that there is a threat is the First Duty demanded by their oath

If a member of Congress believes the principles and institutions we established in our Constitution are being subverted, their first duty -- the one they are derelict in -- is to notify the public that the Constitution is under attack and that defensive action is required to rescue it.

In our current crisis, the defensive action required is to remove the threat by removing Bush and Cheney from office through resignation or impeachment.

This is OUR country. We the People are the "deciders."

The process doesn't start with Articles of Impeachment. It doesn't end with judgment in the Senate.

The process starts in the court of public opinion. The process ends with removal from office by resignation or by force through impeachment. Between those two points things can play out in an infinite number of ways. There is no way of knowing.

Their oath is an individual oath. Even if No Other member recognizes the threat, each member has a Personal Duty to act on their own judgment.

To fail to accuse criminals is to be complicit with them.

It doesn't matter if member of Congress doesn't think they can get the votes to convict in the Senate. It may never Get There. It doesn't matter if they think impeachment is "impossible," if they believe the Constitution is being harmed their oath to defend it demands that they tell us.

The cool thing about duty is that you just do it, come what may.
"Fiat justitia, ruat coelum"

"Let justice be done, though the heavens fall"

Dealing with accusations that it's a "partisan coup" or "revenge"

If Democratic members continue to be the only ones who recognize the threats, all they need to do to prove their motives are not partisan is to point out that Bush and Cheney can choose to keep the Presidency Republican. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3:
  1. Cheney resigns, Bush nominates new VP.

    The VP must be confirmed by both the House and Senate. Since we elected these folks, if they object to a nominee that objection reflects our will.

  2. Bush resigns, new VP is sworn in as President.

  3. New President nominates a VP.

    Once again, the VP he/she nominates must be confirmed and therefore must meet with our approval (through the people we elected to represent us).

The Democratic members of the Congress who recognize that rescuing our Constitution requires the removal of Bush and Cheney need to sincerely express their fervent hope that Bush and Cheney do this (and they need to actually BE sincere, so they had better give the moral principles long hard thought).

They need to be clear that they actually want things to play out this way because they do not want the nation to have ANY Question about whether or not their motivation is partisan. If they are clear with themselves, they will be clear with the nation.

Of course, if Bush and Cheney choose to be removed by force, then the succession We the People established in the 25th amendment will govern, and the Democratic Speaker will take the office of the Presidency. Since this succession is in accordance with the laws we established, it is also a reflection of our will.

Pointing out the choices that are available to the criminals in the WH is also a way to speed up the whole process. It shifts the accusations that "they are subjecting the nation to a long painful process" to Bush and Cheney.

When they decide to just "do the right thing" things are always far simpler than the insiders with all their partisan machinations and "strategery" can imagine.

The Choice

We all have a choice: the right side of history or the wrong side. Win or lose.

History is a harsh judge. When we look back at the times that evil has won, the "winners" disgust us and we hold the ones who stood on the sidelines because they believed "We can't win this one so we'd better shut up" in contempt.

At our founding, some who claimed to "hate" slavery were nonetheless complicit in the morally indefensible "compromise" that allowed our fellow human beings to be enslaved in the United States. Undoubtedly many believed they "couldn't win" if they drew a line in the sand and so did not draw the line.

We may never stop paying the price for that horrible compromise.

We face another such defining turning point.

There is No Downside

For years before Pelosi's "pledge", the beltway establishment (both Democratic and Republican) have been dong everything in their power to make sure all talk of impeachment is "off the table." The Democratic assumption that "something bad" would happen is so firmly entrenched in their insular world that it never gets challenged. A very big problem since the assumption has no basis in reality.

What's so tragic is that there is no upside to following the establishment's "impeachment is off limits" edict.

Reality is what it is. Bush and Cheney are grabbing more and more Un-American and Unconstitutional power and using it to nullify our laws through abuse of signing statements and refusal to execute or enforce them, to steal our treasure to empower their tiny faction, and to blatantly violate national and international law to bully other nations -- nations that have given up on looking to the good will of the American people for help because we have clearly surrendered our sovereignty to Bush by tolerating his Un-American and Un-Constitutional claims to be "unitary authoritarian executive."

It is impossible for Democratic leaders to speak in inspiring terms about who we are as a nation if they refuse to point to the fascists and say "That is the OPPOSITE of who we are, and Americans must prove it by removing the threat they pose to the Constitution; our common contract; the soul of the nation. Bush have put the contract into breach. The ONLY way to reassert the terms is through Impeachment, the sole mechanism we established to defend against such attacks from within."

With the ONE weapon that We the People gave them to defend our government from abuses of power "off the table," Dems are incapable of speaking coherently about anything. They are trapped in a world of doubletalk and euphemism because they are desperately trying to avoid having to say anything about the elephant that's trampling the things we treasure most.

There is nothing LESS inspiring then strategy-driven doublespeak.

Even the folks "out here" defending Nancy's pledge don't feel good about it -- they are making apologies and excuses. If the actions of our leaders make us feel a bit "dirty" how can we expect them to inspire our fellow citizens?

If the Party establishment hadn't sold themselves on the absurd notion that "voters won't like us if we do our duty, " we probably wouldn't be having this discussion because 2004 would have been a landslide big enough to overwhelm the election thieves.

Even in the context of the DC bizzaro-world conventional wisdom. . .

"Pelosi's "pledge" was completely unnecessary

It is impossible to carry out their duty to defend the Constitution if the only mechanism by which certain types of threats can be eliminated is "off the table." It is effectively a violation of her congressional oath to say impeachment is "off the table."

It is like answering questions about whether the use of military force is off the table -- the answer to that one is ALWAYS "nothing is off the table." Use of force is a weapon of last resort, but leaders never take the weapons we have made available for our defense "off the table."

All she had to do was point that out.

Until they snap out of their denial of reality. . .

Revised Oath (Changes Mandated by Pelosi's Pledge)


I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and be derelict in my duty to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear foreswear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will fail to take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully negligently and faithlessly discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. "We will impeach her"?????
"we"?:eyes:
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yep. . .It is their duty is to sound the alarm, but the fight is Ours.
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 12:03 AM by pat_k
With a handful of exception, the Democratic Caucus has been derelict in their duty for years. Their failure to give voice to reality has silenced the outraged.

We elect them to represent us, not BE us. It is their duty is to sound the alarm, but the fight is Ours. They have NO right to decide whether or not We the People can win the fight. They have no right to keep us in the dark.

The Congressional oath to defend the Constitution is not an oath to win -- it is an oath to lead the fight.

To fulfill their oath they must be "on the look out" for threats (turning a "blind eye" is not an option). When they identify a threat, their First Duty is to notify us and tell us what they believe we must do to defend against it. (Not what they think we will do; not what they think they can do; not what they think other members of Congress might do. They have a duty to tell us what they personally believe the nation must do.)

Bush and Cheney are leading their tiny faction in an all out attack on our Constitution. The ONLY way to turn them back is remove them from office. Win or Lose, that is the fight we face. Members of Congress, in whom we vested the power to impeach, are duty-bound to call us to arms.

Any member of Congress who sees the threat but won't speak up is enabling and empowering the attackers. No rationalization, whether it's the edict from their peers that "talk of impeachment is off limits," their fear of being snubbed at the next cocktail party, their fear of losing votes, or pronouncements that they "can win," excuses their dereliction.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I trust Pelosi has made a correct decision in "announcing" no impeachment.
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 02:03 AM by oasis
Impeachment's not going to be an issue in the run up to this election. Pelosi, no doubt, has additional cards to play after more is revealed about Bush administration misconduct.

Also consider that the American public will likely demand an impeachment after a number of whistle blowers dessert the Bush camp and spill the beans.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. What is "correct" about it?
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 01:34 PM by pat_k
I have yet to see a case made for the "correctness" -- just blanket assertions that speaking out would be "bad" for Democratic candidates; assertions that it would "gin up" their base made by the likes of Paul Weyrick and Rove; assertions from propagandists that have inexplicably been accepted throughout the beltway establishmment without question. No polls. No evidence. Nothing that would indicate it would "bring them out." No evidence or logical argument offered that impeachment would NOT energize our base to such a degree that it would sweep up voters across the board. No pro v. con analysis.

I have made the case in other posts (links below) that the "impeachment talk is off limits" edict that has been in place for years is not only morally indefensible, it is damaging the Party and therefore hurting our candidates chances. That is, that her "pledge" is incorrect both morally and politically (with the aside that it was completely unnecessary even to achieve her wrong-headed goals).

Whether or not impeachment is "in the cards" isn't relevant to the Democratic "leadership's" dereliction of duty. (And if it is in the cards, and Pelosi believes it is, then she is rationalizing to get elected wth an Un-American "end justifies the means" belief that tosses out the principle of consent.

If you have a case on the "other side", I really do want to hear it. I have been looking long and hard.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2907314&mesg_id=2910368

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2907314&mesg_id=2910014
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Since a GOP win guarantees no impeachment, "principle" will have
to take a back seat on this one for the "greater good". Pelosi came to her decision after careful assessment of the situation.

She has far more access to reliable data on the possible consequences of her declaration than you,me or any other poster.

That said, the possiblility of an impeachment is still alive and well.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. How do proclaimations regarding outcome excuse failure to fulfill. . .
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 12:54 PM by pat_k
. . .their sworn duty? (a duty to "defend" -- i.e., fight)

The posts I referenced (and reference again below) address the ubiquitous and self-destructive "Can't win, so shut up" rationalization for inaction (as well as other rationalizations).

-----------------------------
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2907314&mesg_id=2910368

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2907314&mesg_id=2910014
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Countdown_3_2_1 Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
32. I don't think Nacy WILL be Majority Leader...Maybe Speaker Conyers.
She needs to be voted in by her elected peers.
Does anyone think Nancy will keep her position after this?

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. We need Conyers as head of the House Judiciary Committee
He's tailor-made for the job. Wouldn't consider anyone else for it.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. How is it that no one recommended this post.
I wish I would of been on earlier. I sure would of. It is all the complaints I have.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Mystifying and disturbing. . .
. . . like the unbelievable DU poll discussed in the following post, I am having a very difficult time understanding what the heck is going on here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2458812
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GOPNotForMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
42. This post is in no way productive or helpful.
Nancy Pelosi can't do ANYTHING until we are victorious enough to make her Speaker, so let's concentrate on that right now, okay? Lord...
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
43. This is about politics..
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 01:55 PM by sendero
... nobody but a freeper or a fool doesn't know that if any president EVER deserved impeachment Bush** does. The point is what good does it do to energize the other party's base?

God this is so fucking basic, no wonder we are losing when we should be winning. Purity for purity's sake will get you nothing in this country.

Pelosi is doing the absolutely correct thing here.
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