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[girl gone mad]

1. So..

how do the FL recount veterans feel about Kerry's "don't go crying in your teacups" comment, or his plans to appoint James Baker special envoy to the M.E.?

If I had been working for the Dems in FL, those are the last two things I would want to hear.

[Name removed]

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[WilliamPitt]

6. Well

since that has been a favored line to take out of context, the fact that these Florida fighters are on board with Kerry should inform you where the true context lies.

===

WRP: In terms of the 2004 campaign, the central argument put up by a lot of people in the Democratic base who are against you is that you don’t “get it.” They see other candidates as fighting for their progressive values, and they see you saying “Get over it” after the election debacle in Florida, as quoted by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. In contrast, your voting record in the Senate is clearly as progressive as the day is long. Where do you stand with the progressive community? Do you “get it”? Can you be their leader?

JK: I believe that I am the most consistent, most accomplished progressive fighter in this entire field. My record over 35 years of standing up and fighting for progressive causes is clear on with respect to women, with respect to the environment, with respect to children, education, health care, our role in the world, human rights, civil rights. My record is stronger, longer and deeper than any other candidate in this field with respect to the progressive agenda of this party.

When I say “Move on” from 2000, I’m as angry as anyone else. Votes ought to be counted. But my objective is to win. My objective is “Don’t get mad, get even.” They way you get even is to go out and take that agenda to the country and build a coalition around it. I think if you compare my record to the people in this field, I think it’s clear that I am the progressive candidate. I am the one who has stood up and taken the risks and fought for the agenda of my party with consistency.

I think the progressives in our party need to look and see who has the ability to take that progressive agenda and still stand up and beat George Bush. We don’t need to send the country a message. We need to send the country a President.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/122203A.shtml

[girl gone mad]

11. That doesn't eplain the..

James Baker comment, or the votes on IWR or the Patriot act.

He says he stands up for our agenda, but IMO, he didn't stand up when it counted. A true disappointment from someone who sent him several letters asking him to stand up against Bush's rush to war. Kucinich did, Kerry did not.

[IndianaGreen]

48. I noticed that Kerry did not mention gays on that statement

My record over 35 years of standing up and fighting for progressive causes is clear on with respect to women, with respect to the environment, with respect to children, education, health care, our role in the world, human rights, civil rights.

I am sure that Kerry's votes on IWR and PATRIOT are fine examples of Kerry's stooping down rather than standing up for progressive causes.

[corporatewhore]

58. I cant belive mr.NAFTAGATTWTO said he fought for the environment

[Buba Gar]

7. sour grapes

Instead of tearing down John F. Kerry, why not congratulate him?

[Tweed]

29. It's beginning to feel like Napa Valley in here

Oh wait, the grapes of Napa Valley are sweet, N/M

[JohnKleeb]

8. On Baker he said he would consider him

and Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, of course people like to see only the bad stuff that comes out of Kerry.

[MrSoundAndVision]

13. still the nice guy

huh John? Here's proof Kerry isn't responsible for his recent upsurge in popularity, PROOF for ALL to REGARD: he hasn't changed a bit nor said anything new, the media is his campaign...for now.

[bushwakker]

46. Six weeks ago John Kerry was a media punchline

Kerry was savaged by the media. Remember the Rolling Stone interview, the Harley ride on Leno? He was dismissed and Dean was annointed. He picked himself up and went on. The notion that he is being coddled by the media is absurd.

[Terwilliger]

16. He would consider Baker?

the architect of Bush's stolen election?

What do people actually believe in here at DU? Anything?

[girl gone mad]

21. His defense of that comment was..

every bit as indefensible.

"Kerry also suggested former Secretary of State James Baker as a possible envoy, a proposal that drew criticism from rival Wesley Clark, who called the notion of using the Republican who played a role in the 2000 Florida recount "offensive."

In a quick retort, the Kerry campaign said national security should trump party politics in light of the threats the nation faces."

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20031203_1989.html

[JI7]

18. the middle east

it's a fact that james baker was a big part in starting the peace process between israel and the palestinians. the peace process started before clinton got into office with the first bush with james baker having the major role in it. kerry's whole point in that was that bush was doing nothing, not just compared to clinton and other democrats, but even compared to republicans. the middle east, between the israelis and palestinians is a mess. people are dying up there. so many innocent people. if baker can contribute to helping stop that then he should be involved, as should carter and clinton whow ere both mentioned and as you say some don't want to mention.

[Democrats unite]

2. I hope so.

Because I don't have faith in Kerry!

[curse10]

3. I agree Pete

the Kerry supporters I know and that I have met at functions have been great, long-time liberals. I've been amazed at the people I've met :-) And am often in awe. I'm just a freakin' law student and I get to hang out with these people!

It isn't a conspiracy. It isn't the media. It's the people.

[MrSoundAndVision]

15. I think you forgot to remove your John Edwards

propaganda from your signature. I'll just leave it at that.

[curse10]

17. What are you talking about?

Edwards is my second choice. I'm still allowed to like more than one candidate last time I checked. :eyes:

[JohnKleeb]

5. Met one of them today at work

I work at a grocery store and there was a man campaigning. Most people took the pamphlets.

[rucky]

9. Pete, We've gotta play these roles till the nomination

as long as our guys are still in it.

After the nomination, we'll have the Party's best & brightest all behind one guy. It'll be amazing.

Sorry to other supporters for peeling back the curtain like that, but it's time to have some honest, supportive discussion. Especially with all this anti-ABB rhetoric floating around.

Until then, we'll continue to bitch & shout so Kerry doesn't seem too "liberal" ;)

[eileen_d]

22. Love the role-playing analysis!

:yourock:

We're all behind the curtain of our avatars... but if we all got together for a party, it would be a love-fest.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. So, you're inviting us to the next Skull & Bones party?

There is a reason most of us haven't met the people in Kerry's campaign. I don't even know where Rand Beers lives - do you?

[Buba Gar]

12. YAWN

yawnie mcyawn

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. Yawn, Rand Beers, Yawn, Iraq War

Yet another one of these same people who are just like Bush - yawn.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[WhoCountsTheVotes]

51. the people in Kerry's campaign wouldn't invite us to their parties

so how could we possibly know them?

[oasis]

37. Don't go to sleep Buba Gar, this thread remains positive. Welcome to DU.

[sistersofmercy]

56. Welcome to Du, Buba Gar!

BWAHAHAHAHA! I like that, "yawn...yawnie mcyawn" :hi:

[eileen_d]

19. I appreciate your post

But it's much easier for other DUers to assume Kerry supporters are either "sheeple" or part of some secret power elite. That way they get to feel either intellectually superior or innocently victimized. Hey, as long as they get to boost their self-esteem, I'll enjoy the bashing and a Kerry presidency.

Caaan you feeeeel the looooove toniiiight...

[hlthe2b]

20. I appreciate your insider view...

Political experience does pay... and clearly both Kerry and his campaign staff have that experience. I find it unnerving that there is so very little margin for error, given the ruthless tactics of the RW, the media's overt manipulations, and the need to set oneself apart from the "democratic crowd," the fact is that we are going to need that experience to take back the WH. While I like Kerry, I can't help but be saddened that several remaining highly qualified candidates-- with less direct campaign experience-- are ultimately so handicapped.

Thanks to Will, too for clearing up some of that lingering misperception re: Kerry.

[MrSoundAndVision]

23. If Kerry gets the nomination...

and, as I believe he will lose, directly because of the media guillotine, or rather the removal of the media platform from beneath his feet, I want to see you people back here, immediately, so that we may redouble the efforts of the revolution.

You support who you will, but remember me and come here.

[woofless]

24. This isn't a revolution, it's an election,

and the PEOPLE are making their preferences known. They all have their own personal reasons and are NOT easily led. Everyone I have talked to in months has given a lot of thought to their choice and today made their voices heard in caucus.

[MurikanDemocrat]

26. Revolution?? Egads!

This is not going to be a revolution for Christ sakes. It's going to take some time to undo the damage Bush has done -- far more than any one President can do in 1 four year term.

You are not going to get ALL of what you want all at once. None of us will. Those are the cards we are dealt. That's life.

[sandnsea]

32. We had NO media

Don't you get it yet. Iowa was won on the ground, pure guts and determination and endless work. I keep hoping the fighting spirit that won Iowa, that Kerry was talking about in his "quit crying in your teacups" speech, will sink in around here one of these days. We aren't chest pounders, we just go about the business of making calls and knocking on doors and getting one vote at a time. Then the experienced organization picks up and makes sure those votes get to the polls.

We aren't expecting a walk into the White House. We're expecting a down in the trenches fight for every vote.

We remember every single Democrat in the country and we WILL be coming for you. Are you going to put aside every excuse and whine and criticism and just shut up and fight?

Bring It On isn't about Kerry and Bush. Bring It On needs to be the attitude every single Democrat has towards every single Republican until November 2004. We can't just sit around crying in our teacups, we have to stand up and fight.

[NNN0LHI]

27. You don't have to convince me that these are good people. I knew it

And we will be sending Bush back to Waco real soon.

Don

[Tim_in_HK]

28. PeteNYC, I understand what you are trying to say

But I don't have faith in our chances because of Kerry himself, not because of some 'insider' conspiracy.

I just think he is not our strongest candidate. I'm terrified that if he gets the nod, he will go back into autopilot mode. Or will fold like a chair when he gets slugged again. I'm hoping that his experience over the summer and fall makes this less likely, but I'm not convinced.

If he gets the nomination, I hope he wins and I'll of course vote for him.

But if he loses, I am going to put a resolution into the Democratic party for a moratorium on Northeastern candidates for 100 years.

Also, I think if he wins the election, he'll be at best a mediocre president. Of course, just my opinion. I haven't seen anything about Kerry that makes me think he'll do anything spectacular.

[sandnsea]

33. It'll be YOUR fault

If he loses it'll be because of people like you, who just sit around and criticize and whine because nobody listened to their brilliance, instead of getting out there and fighting.

I think Howard Dean is as big a buffoon as George Bush. But I have said time and again that I could confidently campaign for him because of the Supreme Court. I could put my feelings aside and work because the country is more important.

Are you going to do that? Or are you going to take some sort of perverse satisfaction in doing nothing and ridiculing Democrats all year just so you can say "told you so"?

[Tim_in_HK]

36. I don't support Dean, BTW

I said I'd vote for Kerry if he won the nomination, I'd most likely even donate to his campaign, and I've said on numerous occasions that I'm ABB, but I do support Clark. I don't know what else you think I should do. I don't forsee a spark to light up in me for Kerry the way it has for Clark. It could happen, but at this point I'd say I'm not going to feel very strong about Kerry, and I doubt I'll be shouting his name from the rooftop. What I will be shouting is 'let's get those Bush bastards.'

In a pro-Edwards thread today, I even stated that if Clark were to drop out, I'd go Kerry over Edwards b/c foreign policy is a make or break issue for me, and in my opinion Kerry is better than Edwards on that.

And I don't think I'm criticizing anyone. I don't think that highly of Kerry, and said that is just my opinion. Sorry, but it's true. I also didn't think that highly of Gore, but I voted for him and donated to his campaign as well.

You love your candidate. Congrats. I love mine. I think mine would be a better president. You think the opposite. Surprise surprise. And I still have these concerns about Kerry. If he gets the nomination, I hope that I am wrong. But that doesn't change my concern at this point.

[sandnsea]

39. Wasn't my point

My point was the sour attitude. I had always figured it would stop, every Democrat knows Kerry has been on the right side of 90% of Democratic issues his whole life. If it doesn't stop, I really do know why Democrats have been losing. We're self-destructive.

And it's absolutely beyond comprehension to me that Clark, who has done nothing but work in the Washington military/political establishment, can possibly be seen as someone to bring change. If people were going with Kucinich, I could understand people harping on about bringing real Democratic progressive values to Washington. But everybody knows in their heart America would reject it. So they get behind all these posers instead. I don't understand it, I just don't.

Kerry, the heart of Kucinch with a pragmatic mind that can create policy the mainstream will agree to. Progress. I don't get what's evil in that, I just don't.

Glad to hear you'll be fighting against Bush, that's the most important thing.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

62. If Kerry loses, it will be HIS fault

That's a nice pre-emptive blaming of rank and file Democrats for Kerry's presumed loss.

[Capn Sunshine]

30. IN what dream world

does the most liberal, establishment, insider old line democrat---THE PERFECT MIX THAT ROVE & CO. ARE CONFIDENT THEY CAN BEAT----"trounce " anyone? Leftist and base party dems are planning on staying home in droves from what I hear

[eileen_d]

31. I thought we weren't letting Rove pick our candidate?

It's a shame that these "leftists and base party dems" are letting Rove decide the election for them. So much for convictions.

[sandnsea]

34. Aren't they so proud of themselves?

You know what. If the left stays home, fuck 'em forever. Your own words, "the most liberal" candidate. And that's not good enough for the left and party base? Fuck 'em.

I thought it was time to turn our fight towards Bush, but I guess not. The left wants to act like a bunch of whiny pissants and try to destroy the country's chance to get rid of George Bush, bring it on. We'll fight this fight first, then we'll kick Bush's ass.

Sick of this shit. Goddamn sick of it.

Howard Dean was more establishment on his best day than Kerry on his worst day. Wes Clark, he was in the military Washington establishment his whole career. He was a goddamn Washington military lobbyist for chrissake. He can't even keep his view on abortion straight. Edwards is a nice guy, but his record is to the right of Kerry's as well. There is NO other choice for people who want to keep traditional liberal values while adding strong national defense, balanced budgets and small business and jobs growth. John Kerry is the future of the Democratic Party, caring, tough, sensible, forward looking, steady. If you're looking for America to be a socialist utopia, it's not going to happen. If you don't want it to be a 1900's nightmare, you better get out of YOUR dream world and be part of the fight to trounce George Bush. Operative word, fight. Not piss and whine about how they're not being nice to me mommy.

[nightperson]

40. Thank you.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[oasis]

41. "operative word, fight"

A dandy wake up call.:thumbsup:

[FubarFly]

43. "If you met the people in Kerry's campaign...

you'd have faith in our chances"

Is this post a common attitude shared in the Kerry camp, or an aberration?

[Forkboy]

49. lol

Kinda disproves the original point in this thread doesn't it?

[murielm99]

44. Teriffic! Best post yet!

:toast:

[molly]

45. One true and powerful statement

"Howard Dean was more establishment on his best day than Kerry on his worst day."

[sistersofmercy]

50. Smokin'...

Hot damn, tellin' it like it is! :thumbsup:

[MidwestMomma]

53. The primaries are not over

I will support my candidate until he no longer wants to fight. Wesley Clark dedicated his life to serving his country and you describe him as nothing more than a 'goddamn military lobbyist?" And you wonder why Clark supporters aren't jumping on the Kerry bandwagon? Whatever!

[Native]

63. Amen!

[oasis]

38. From what I hear, leftist and the base of the Democratic party will be

turning out in record numbers. They hate Bush.

BTW, most of the people I know don't live at DU.

[janx]

64. My listserve posts are all saying the same thing.

They know it's a disaster. :-(

[Tatiana]

35. I know Kerry can beat Bush.

If he's the nominee, I'm sure he'll win. The country is wise to Bush now. Bush is a sitting duck and all he can do now is plunder as much as he can from the U.S. treasury before the people send him packing.

America has had enough of living in a Banana Republic.

That being said, now that I have been assured that the American public is wise to Bush, my goal isn't just ABB. I'm looking at the person who will most effectively institute change from the top on down in this country. I'm looking for a President whose administration will improve my daily life as well as the lives of the majority of Americans.

I don't think Kerry will do that. Yes, he might do some cosmetic things, such as appointing better personnel in Cabinet-level posts, but I don't have the faith that anything substancial will change. He is too beholden to the special interests of Washington. His first loyalty will be to them and not the American public.

I'll vote for him, of course, just like I did Gore. But I won't be an enthusiastic voter because I'll know this country could have had better.

[Piperay]

42. Nice to know that

makes me feel better about Kerry's chances. :-)

[NoPasaran]

47. I am glad to hear all this

I have to respect Kerry. Last fall when it looked like he was going nowhere he fixed the problems with his campaign and it obviously has paid off. Dean's problems went undetected. He's trying to fix them now but it may well be too late.

I have been heartened by the big turnouts in the primaries and caucuses. Of course, I'd be enjoying it more if more of them were voting for my guy, but the important thing is that they're coming out to get rid of those Bush bastards. And after the convention, whoever is nominated will be my guy and he will get my total support.

[Terwilliger]

52. I've got nothing against Kerry supporters

noo too much against Kerry

I'm not wanting George Bush to win again, but I don't think that thge way out of it is necessarily John Kerry

If he wins, that'll be great. That's a BIG if.

[pezcore64]

54. oh

Oh, I believe Kerry can beat Bush...But then again I think any of our people could at this point! Bush is weak!!! Fact still remains, I dont want kerry to be president!
Yeah, better than Shrub, but is that all we shoot for? Mediocracy and old ideas? Id like to think not, but im being proven wrong everytime another primary occurs.

Seems to me Ive heard very little about Kerry people being friendly on DU , besides your post. Most seem to say they are pretty tight arsed. Seems to me Dean, Clark, and Edwards people tend to get along where ever they go. Doesnt seem like the same deal with all of them and Kerry people.

[Algorem]

55. Kerry staffers lost the Florida recount!?Uh-oh!Maybe Sharpton's the elec-

table one!His staff won the Florida recount!Al!Al!Al!

[quaker bill]

57. I could say the same about the Dean campaign

But so far it hasn't panned out. I am sure that Kerry has many good people working for him. That however, gives me no greater confidence that he will win.

[AnnitaR]

59. I have faith in his supporters!

I just don't have faith that he's our best choice. Sure he can beat Bush and we'll have a new President.

I don't just want a new President. I want the best President of my lifetime and I see that man being Wesley K. Clark!

[DrFunkenstein]

60. I Totally Agree (Except For The Clark Part)

I salute your passion and commitment. I know exactly where it is coming from.

:toast:

[loyalsister]

61. That's just expected

nothing convincing there. That's exactly who I would expect would be involved in his campaign. I've been involved in local politics enough to know who goes where when and that's a no brainer.
Sadly, it's not nearly as impressive as people willing to give their own time long before election season really gets started. They're more than just star struck.