It's official: Bush is cutting and running

[lwcon]

The news: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15397894/

Iraqi forces should be able to take full control of security in the country within the next 12 to 18 months with minimal American support, Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said on Tuesday

Edit: new wording from msnbc/AP as story was updated from a "breaking news" item:

U.S. officials said Tuesday Iraq’s government has agreed to develop a timeline for progress by the end of the year, and Iraqi forces should be able to take full control of security in the country in the next 12 to 18 months with “some level” of American support.

Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, also said he felt the United States should continue to focus on drawing down the number of American forces in the country, adding that he would not hesitate to ask for more troops if he felt they were necessary.

The snark: http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/10/well-stand-aside-so-iraq-can-fall-down.html


___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Virginia Dare]

1. The freepers prefer the term...

snipping and moseying. :crazy:

[FormerDittoHead]

2. Sad to see our President appease the terrorists.

It's too bad Bush didn't have the WILL, the FORTITUTE and CONVICTION and stand up to the terrorists.

:sarcasm:

[lwcon]

3. Be sure to duct-tape up the plastic sheets

I heard from a great man that they're going to follow us here.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[BootinUp]

4. This is just talk, the decider is still *

Basically they are saying, in spite of a worsening situation, ignore that, it will get better.

Okey Dokey, I can vote for my republic representative again. :crazy:

[lwcon]

6. I hear it as...

... let's blow this pop stand, and let's just pretend this never happened.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[BootinUp]

11. Bush was just interviewed on MTP

and said troops will be there through 2009. All I am saying is if political pressure is making them change there plans then no one should assume they won't change the plans back once the pressure eases. (elections over)

[lwcon]

13. Agreed n/t

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[endarkenment]

5. This is no change at all. It is stay the course.

This is "we will stand down when they stand up". Playing this as a new policy is total bullshit, and the bullshit media system uncritically accepting this as a change in policy is why it is the Bullshit Media System.

[lwcon]

7. I think this is different..

... I think they're saying, "let's pretend Iraq can stand up, so we can get the hell out of Dodge."

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[endarkenment]

8. Sorry but you are simply reading into it what you want to see.

That is not what is being said and what is being said is the same crap they have been saying for the last 3 years. All they do is jiggle the knobs a bit. There is no change in policy. Victory is always just around the corner. The next 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, whatever are critical, blah blah. 12-18 months from now, if the war party is still in charge, this statement will be in the memory hole and new proclamations of brave new policies that are identical to the previous failures other than some irrelevant verbage, will be issued.

[lwcon]

12. At this point, I couldn't tell you what I want to see

Operation Pandora has created a situation that's equally frightening if we walk away from the mess or if we stay and get picked off like Redcoats while Iraq spirals ever deeper into chaos.

We'll see, but this looks to me like advance PR for Jim Baker's report, a way of sugarcoating Bush's switch to cut-and-run. That said,in practice I don't know that the troop drawdown will happen whatsoever under Bush.

But I do think their messaging is changing from the focus on "Iraq will stand up" to one of "we will stand down."

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[endarkenment]

16. No it is just a confusoid sent out as part of the election campaign.

if they hold on after Nov 7 they will proclaim another Man Date to continue the course. If they lose they will be maneuvering to blame Democrats for the debacle. They have no intention of changing course.

That said, I think that you are confused about Iraq. If we walk away the Iraqis will sort out their problems themselves. As long as we stay we will prevent that resolution. Somewhere around 400 Iraqis per day are dying in the conflict. It is a civil war. our presence prevents any resolution of the civil war.

[lwcon]

17. And I think you are over-optimistic about how quickly...

... the damage we've wrought there can be fixed.

Whether or not the US continues its precarious occupation, I think there is a very real risk that the situation in Iraq will keep raging out of control, possibly metastasizing into a broader Middle East meltdown.

The problems may not, in fact, sort themselves out very cleanly and quickly. Numerous disastrous scenarios are plausible: a long and bloody civil war, Iran waging war on Iraq's Sunnis, Turkey waging war on an emergent sovereign Kurdistan, breakdown into a warlord culture, and the ascendancy of a new strongman.

This is not in any way to say "stay the course" makes any sense, rather it's to say that this whole mission was senseless and may destabilize regional and world politics for years to come. Unless Bush gets his Armageddonn wish out of this, that is.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[endarkenment]

18. I did not specify any time at all.

What I said was that no resolution is possible, short of a massive atrocity on our part, as long as we remain in Iraq. Our departure will allow resolution to occur, and that will take as long as it takes. Our civil war lasted four years, I expect that theirs, once we get out of the way, will not take that long.

It may be that our Iraqi Blunder's resolution involves a general realingment of the entire region, and a more widespread regional conflict involving the neighbors of the state formerly known as Iraq. Once again, if this is going to happen, then it is going to happen. Our presence in the region is not doing anything other than putting off the inevitable, and at a terrible price to us in terms of lives and treasure, and an even more terrible price to the people of the region.

I am astounded at those who continue to hold to the 'we broke it we have to fix it' theory. We broke it indeed, but our presence continues to compound the injury. It is as if, having let the bull into the china shop, we then proceeded to refuse to let the bull out until we managed to 'fix the problem'. The bull is the problem and we are the bull. The violence is a direct consequence of what we did and what we continue to do by remaining there. It is not our country, they are not our people, it is not our business.

We do have a responsibility for the damage we have done. Our compensation is not 'continued illegal occupation of the region', that simply continues the crime for which we owe compensation.

[lwcon]

21. I don't disagree with any of that...

... except that my crystal ball isn't quite as optimistic about when the aftershocks will stop shaking the region.

Either way, we agree, the die is cast. Pandora's Box has been opened, and leaving our troops there as sitting ducks and an ongoing symbol of our crime isn't going to help.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Seabiscuit]

19. But... but... hasn't that been their message now for 3 years???

[lwcon]

22. I thought their message had been "stay the course"

But perhaps I'm wrong about that: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/23/the-strategy-in-iraq-has-never-been-stay-the-course-right/ :)

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Seabiscuit]

23. One and the same...

"stay the course" - we'll stand down when the Iraqis stand up.

They've been pretending for 3 years now that the Iraqi army and police forces have been making huge strides towards fending for themselves, that we've "turned a corner", and the insurgency is in its "last throes".

Of course, none of this has been true.

[klyon]

25. The main problem with this stand down thing is that you are

waiting for someone else to do something before you can move. Seems foolish at best, fatal at worst.

[Seabiscuit]

28. I smell Kissinger's "Vietnamization" all over his policy - it was fatal,

at best.

[whistle]

9. It is the old game of reverse Simon Says, remember?

...Simon says, "Sit down", Simon says, "Stand up", etc.

Here it is Georgie says, "Sit down", Georgie says, "Sit down", "Cut and run". Ahaaa, you moved and I didn't say Georgie says. ** <stands for prick>

[LEW]

10. It's changing the message not the course

CNN just had a story called "changing the message" with several different clips of shrub saying "we will not change the course". It was great. OMG is CNN starting to really report, this whole week they will have a different story on the "broken government".

[sutz12]

14. It's pretty much an update of Nixon....

Let's just declare victory and go home.

[hippiechick]

15. Oh, I see ... it's not cutting and running if IRAQ sets a 'timeline' ...

... :eyes: :puke: not like their government is a puppet of the White House or anything ... :eyes: :puke:

[johnnyrocket]

20. 12 months? That's 2 Krugman Time Units, and didn't they say this...

...12 months ago?!?

[dajoki]

24. The dirty...

no good hypocrites. They know it's the only way out and yet we were condemmed for it.

[lwcon]

26. Indeed

As even the Bill O'Reillys become cut-and-runners, there is zero possibility they'll apologize to liberals/Democrats/the Barbra Steisands and Sean Penns, etc., or anyone else who called this misadventure for what it was and is.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[dajoki]

27. When Bush cuts and runs...

and he will, it will be "Clinton did it".