Dems were favored to win earlier this year. Why's MSNBC crediting Clinton?

[blm]

Dems wouldn't be doing as well district by district if they hadn't been WORKING HARD at it for the entire election cycle which did NOT start in September when Clinton finally spoke in his own defense of charges made against him for the last 5 years.

Dean and other hardworking Dems have traveled all over the country, working 24/7 to rebuild the party infrastructure that had been collapsed since 1997 in too many states.

Dems were pounding Bush and the GOP when he was at 80%. And at 70%. And at 60%. And at 50%. Clinton wasn't there for all of that, and instead, was publically and VOCALLY supportive of Bush's policies for the last 5 years.

Now that Bush has been steady under 40% for some time now, some people want to jump in front of the parade. And the media is pushing it.

Those of you who follow the media will see exactly what they're implying in their question.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15320107/site/newsweek

Clinton Comeback
The former president has returned to center stage. Can he make a difference to the election outcome?
...

[AtomicKitten]

1. They asked the question -- they didn't credit him.

Jesus, for once could you present an honest premise for discussion?

[wisteria]

4. The question is meant to be rhetorical and the suggestion is implied.

No need to come right out and say it.

[blm]

5. It is ABSOLUTELY what they are IMPLYING in their question.

You'd have to be braindead gullible to not catch what they're pitching.

[AtomicKitten]

6. No, you just have to be a rabid Clinton hater for that take on it.

Jesus H. Christ, the resentment for a former 2-term Democratic president really impedes the flow of reasonable thought here.

That article asks the question - Can he make a difference? Period.

You guys bitch when he does try to help and complain when he doesn't. The truth is you need ZERO provocation to trash him.

Disgusting.

[BootinUp]

7. good answer

ya think? :)

[AtomicKitten]

11. I'd have more respect for them if they just started a thread

stating I hate Bill Clinton instead of twisting anything they can find to use as a launching pad for this crap. And then they have the audacity and with a straight face no doubt to suggest the article says what it doesn't.

[ProSense]

12. No one is seeking your respect! The OP isn't even

directly about Clinton, but the media's framing of the question. The implication is that the outcome was in question and Clinton may be able to change that.

[blm]

13. READ HIS BOOK - I used to love Clinton blindly, too. Defended him as

strongly as any citizen could.

He decided to insult us with his book as though we had no right to truth - the truth that would have PREVENTED 9-11 and Iraq war, and made certain that no Bush would ever get into office again.

[BootinUp]

14. I really think your obsession

with some "truth" Clinton has hidden is bordering on delusional. I believe he took the terrorist threat seriously and would not participate in a coverup of terrorist activities. The question is why do you think YOU needed to get CIA briefings?

[blm]

15. It's not delusional to want IranContra, BCCI or Iraqgate CRIMES OF OFFICE

that still had pursuable issues for investigation and disclosure, dealt with HONESTLY and OPENLY.

Only a citizen of an authoritarian country would expect it or excuse it as unnneeded.

I believe in anti-corruption oversight and open government. You call it delusional.

DON'T TREAD on ME - I'm an American CITIZEN not a beaten down bystander.

[BootinUp]

16. Why don't you write KERRY and tell him your disatisfied

with his investigation in BCCI!

Why dont you read the reports for the others and if your not happy, do something other that shift blame onto one Democrat!! Its a political witch hunt Dem v Dem, You suck!

[blm]

17. Yeah - that's what was said to Robert Parry and Gary Webb, too.

.

[Auntie Bush]

19. What Jim said.

Especially the last two words. Clinton is probably the most beloved man in the world...minus the Muslems...maybe even some of them. (think Kosavo)

[blm]

20. Thanks. I appreciate that some prefer secret, authoritarian government

I do not, and obviously prefer anti-corruption, OPEN government leaders. I would never stoop to telling those Dems who prefer the former, "You suck."

There are alot more open government types on this board - we didn't set out to be AGAINST any Democrat.

I fight like hell for Clinton when he's being lied about, and always have. I DO call him out on the BAD moves he's made, because PRINCIPLES do matter and the historic record MATTERS to generations to come, whether you recognize it or not.

[BootinUp]

24. why do you have to put words in my mouth?

I reject your claim that there is any indication Clinton's administration did what you suggest. Therefor it follows that you cannot make the conclusion logically that is in your subject line above.

I guess they also call your tactic setting up a strawman.

[blm]

26. His book proved it - you didn't read the book. And whether he covered up

for good reasons or bad, the end result was the same.

And attacking me as delusional for believing in open government and your belief that Clinton doesn't owe any explanation of public matters, well...that says more about you and YOUR level of tolerance as a citizen.

[BootinUp]

28. Proved what. I am not going to respond if you don't

spell out your charge a little clearer. Frankly, I don't think many here are interested in this discussion.

[blm]

30. Then stop attacking me on it - come over to an Octafish or H2O Man thread

or one of the many others when this information is being laid out. You just stalk me when they all feel and say pretty much the same thing - we ALL think Clinton not pursuing the matters still outstanding on those scandals led us to where we are today. But I am the one who takes all the heat because you won't show up and challengethe premise on a thread that would be well-suited for you to do so.

Instead you keep screwing with other threads and turning everything into Clinton-hating when it's hardly that. Did you jump on my threads when I alerted this board and posted we have to hound media and support Clinton on PT9-11 lies?

[BootinUp]

31. I will refute your claims at my choosing

Just like you post your attacks at your choosing. I wish you would go to the Octafish et al threads though. lol.

[blm]

33. Big difference - I read his book. You didn't. I defended him blindly, too

until I read his book.

You act like everything I said is impossible - same way I would have acted BEFORE I read his book.

[ProSense]

10. Clue:

He's not everybody's favorite! Why does this bother you so much? There are people who worship two-term president Reagan and others who despise him!

[gully]

2. Perhaps because they can no longer use the terrorism card?

But, I agree that things were on a downword slide for the R's before Clinton spoke out.

[wisteria]

3. Thats bullsh*t. Clinton hasn't worked hard for other Dem's until

recently. And he most certainly wasn't the first one to speak up and when he did, it was to defend himself. I'm writing msnbc to let them know they have the facts wrong. I am beginning to think the Clinton's pay for this good press.

[iconocrastic]

8. Because they favor Hillary

It's not difficult to understand.

[BootinUp]

9. So the question is

Can he make a difference?

DUH! Thats a tough one, not.

I don't see where they are crediting Clinton with the whole ball of wax, they are saying will he help? Well will he? I say hell yes.

[wyldwolf]

18. Like Olbermann pointed out last night

Hurricane Katrina is what actually started the consistent nod to the Democrats in the polls. It was Clinton who made it stylish for Dems to verbally spar with the Republicans.

Your're right. We were already leading in the polls. Now, we have a bit of swagger.

[Cameron27]

21. I see a significant change in the way that

Democrats are confronting republicans since Bill Clinton went on the attack against Chris Wallace.

[blm]

22. I don't. Dems have been attacking GOPs alot over the years. Some are just

starting to do it more based on the Foley coverage and the normal campaign season that begins at Labor Day.

SOME people in the party may have needed Clinton to lead them to toughen up, but those would be the same ones who listened to his advice to be bipartisan and support Bush for the last 5 years, too.

[Renew Deal]

23. Clinton deserves some credit for what he did on Fox.

He helped Democrats greatly. He was the face of the Democratic Party. He fought back hard against a lot the bullshit of the last few years. He showed America that there is a feisty Democratic party out there. It was very good.

[blm]

27. In Sept. 2006 when Bush's numbers had bene held under 40% for MONTHS?

Clinton persuaded LIGHTWEIGHT DEMS to start fighting back - the same ones who were still taking his advice to act bipartisan for the last 5 years

He didn't start fighting back at GOPs till after Lieberman lost and Path to 9-11 was coming out.

He was being accused of the 9-11 blame in EIGHT BOOKS between 2001-2005 and waited till a movie was made based on these books to defend himself? He didn't think defending himself would have been useful before 2002 and 2004 elections?

[BootinUp]

29. Wasn't he in for quadruple bypass

in Sept 04?

What'd you want him to do, roll around the country in a wheel chair?

2002, I have discussed this with you before. Clinton as a former President was attempting to show unity with the current administration in a time of war. I know you don't like that answer, but tis the facts. Tis also a fact that Congressman and Senators were basically doing the same thing.

[blm]

32. And throughout 2003? And his ENTIRE BOOK TOUR in 2004?

And even in his book where he BUILT UP McCain's role in Vietnam normalization and DOWNPLAYED Kerry's role even though everyone else involved credited Kerry as the sole leader, especially McCain, so why couldn't Clinton tell the truth AS IT HAPPENED about something that shouldn't have had ANY political angling at all?

[BootinUp]

34. Why not cite the book passages

that bother you? I don't think I will just rely on a review done by the friends of Kerry for 2008?

[blm]

35. You think this is MADE UP? Clinton is the one who changed the storyline

to heap praise on McCain. You don't believe me - READ THE BOOK YOURSELF. I loved him so I read the book. You defend him blindly because you didn't read his book. Read it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

25. Or from a Con perspective, another excuse to blame him?

:shrug: