Which of these actions makes Obama a corporate sell-out?

[Radical Activist]

I've seen the accusation of Obama being a corporate DLC moderate sell out a lot today so I'm trying to figure this one out. Which of these things make Obama a corporate sell out to other DUers?

[stray cat]

1. He doesn't agree with everyone at DU on everything

Of course he is a sell out!

[Radical Activist]

2. And he's not a vegan.

Just not good enough.

[AtomicKitten]

3. He outshines some favorites here.

He must be destroyed.

[Radical Activist]

4. Ding. I think that's it.

I hope this post serves as a reality check.

[Nye Bevan]

5. He has not come out in favor of a "maximum wage"

Or a 99% tax rate for incomes over $1 million.

[Zensea]

6. Push poll

regardless of which side you are on

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. and no "Other" which would be far more accurate and descriptive.

Frankly, being in Illinois, i follow his career moves closely, and I am not impressed.

Too much fluff and too little substance on many issues. I do not mind his effort to build bridges to the center; that is necessary and will occur on its own after the horrific partisan crap of the last 12 years. But, on critical issues, he waffles, he stays silent or worse, he hides.

[Zensea]

16. Myself I'm reserving judgement although

I am immediately suspicious of the "pretty face" phenomenon.
That's why, although on examination I decided that Wesley Clark talks sense quite a bit, I still remain a bit skeptical of him.
After all, the pretty face phenomenon has a lot to do with why George W. Bush is currently president I think.
It may be hard for Democrats and those on the left to see that, but Bush plays quite well to Republicans and those on the right on that level (a style level) who want someone who "looks good," who looks like an upstanding corporate executive, tough guy type.

[Radical Activist]

23. well...duh

The poll is to make a point, which I think has been made well.

[Zensea]

51. No different than Fox News then

That is the poll tells you more about the pollster than giving any actual information.
}(
Just saying.
I don' really have a dog in this race, other than I thought it was going to be a real poll when I initially clicked on it.
I therefore find it kind of amusing which is why I made my initial comment (and this one also).

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. He doesn't have the unanimous backing of 100% of DU'ers

[nevergiveup]

8. Obama is a class act

and if he decides to run in 2008 I will work for him. He doesn't have a 100% liberal voting record but it is damn good and he has been against this war from the beginning. I find the Obama bashing threads on this site mind boggling.

[niallmac]

9. I visited a couple of resources to verify my impression

That Barack Obama was complicit with the Admin in the early stages of the war.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/161/161_cover_obama_iraq.html provides an
article that attempts to define Barack Obama as "mush mouthed" about the issues and
failing to make a commitment on the war. On the contrary the article had me doubting my impression of Obama as a DLCer in sheep's clothing.

Further reading educates me to the fact that he did come out against the war in 2004
then faces reality once we are entrenched without ever supporting or falling into the
"War on Terrorism" trap.

I am sorry the poll did not have "undecided" as that is what I am with a strong
desire to be able to support this man as a future presidential candidate.

The Time magazine article was also eye opening for me.

I get myself wrapped up in preconceived notions that take some unraveling
before I can say "OK, I was wrong." Still working on that.

[beaconess]

17. You know the Black Commentator is full of crap, don't you?

Hardly a source anyone needs to be citing. It's a joke.

[Radical Activist]

28. I wouldn't be that harsh on the BC.

They have some good commentary but I think they have been unfair against Obama in the past. I don't think they'll be happy with Obama until he uses the black power sign and yells "kill whitey" on the Senate floor. The same may be true for some on DU.

[beaconess]

32. :-) That's pretty funny

[niallmac]

36. Just Googled it today. I guess I know now. n/t

[1932]

52. Black Commentator is crap.

Their journalism on Obama is absurd. They were the ones who made a huge deal about Obama being listed on the DLC website but didn't bother to check their facts first. The DLC put Obama's name on their website even though Obama was not a member. BC wrote thousands of words about what it meant for Obama to be DLC even though he wasn't a member.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Hey.....

:wtf:

[wiley]

44. WTF? II

[wiley]

49. Secreat Daily Kos Poll!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/17/3382/9045

[DeepModem Mom]

11. K&R!

[IndyOp]

12. Bogus poll. See "Barack Obama, Inc. Birth of a Washington Machine" -

in this month's Harper's. He is playing to his corporate donors.

Typical: At a Center for American Progress youth convention, Obama spoke movingly of empathy for people living below the poverty level, for working for something bigger than ourselves. Then he used the energy generated from that to pump up the crowd for E85 - "a product whose profits accrue to a small group of corporate corn growers led by Illinois-headed Archer Daniels Midland." Agribusiness and automakers love E85 because it allows them to look envrionmentally correct while producing highly profitable and fuel-guzzling vehicles like SUVS and pickups. In pumping E85, Obama is being a typical pork-barrel Midwestern pol.

Not so great. Not so inspirational.

I was impressed when I heard him at the 2004 convention. I was very UNimpressed at his passivity in opposing Alito - and the man is constitutional lawyer. I am UNimpressed by his pork barrel politics.

I am sick of personality politics.

Kucinich. Feingold. Sanders. Someone who GETS the economic hell we are sliding quickly towards...

[beaconess]

18. He wasn't passive about Alito at all

In fact, he was royally pissed off at Democratic leadership for not building a case against him with the public, waiting until the last minute to organize a filibuster effort and then trying to push him out in front to carry their water.

He was right. And he was correct and courageous to put the leadership on notice that he wouldn't be their front man jumping on his sword when the rest of them didn't have the cajones to stand up and fight.

[IndyOp]

21. I do agree that the Dem leaders should've built a case waaaaaay early -

and not waited until the last moment to mount an attempt at a filibuster. I didn't see any 'royally pissed off' from him - do you have a link?

Thanks.

[Mass]

42. Can you find a source for your interesting interpretation

The leadership DID NOT WANT a filibuster.

It took a handful of senators to take that into their hands (Obama was not one of them) and they were blasted by the leadership (Reid, Schumer, ...) because they tried.

I do not remember Obama having any other role except to go and tv and complain that the filibuster should not happen, and then, after he was pressured by activists, to eventually decide to vote for it. Durbin, however, was part of those who wanted a filibuster.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/01/29/national/w095727S83.DTL

[Radical Activist]

24. Supporting alternative fuels. Oh how conservative!!!

So let me get this straight, trying to support a fuel that will help us be independent of foreign oil is too corporate? Yes, every politician in Illinois supports ethanol. Its the #2 corn producing state in the nation. It may not be the perfect fuel but I would rather fill up on E85 than gas from the middle east any day of the week. Is that the best you can come up with? Weak. Very weak.

[IndyOp]

33. I didn't want to type the whole Harper's article into my post.

Copyright laws and all that.

We desperately need a MAJOR shift in leadership in the Dem Party - WE liberals need to take it over and transform it so that it reflects true American values.

Apparently FDR wasn't all that great until a people's movement became the tide that propelled him toward his destiny.

I am open minded about Obama - concerned and open-minded.

A fair poll would have included the option "Other" --

:kick:

[LoZoccolo]

29. Kucinich failed to implement socialism when he was mayor.

Corporate sell-out.

[Radical Activist]

31. lol But he did try.

:)

[IndyOp]

34. Ditto what Radical Activist said! He did try and he did not bow down

to the power companies even when his constituency had been 'bought off' with a huge ad campaign that made them believe the power companies had their best interests in mind.

We need leaders who will not put corporations first - we are living fascism (corporatism) in this nation today. We must end it.

:kick:

[IronLionZion]

13. Barack Obama on the issues

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

[saltpoint]

15. Interesting poll you got there, RA.

I doubt I'll ever tire of posting on these boards how impressed with Obama I was at his keynote address in Boston in 2004.

It blew me away.

TIME magazine puts Obama's star high in the heavens these days, and I'm not sure that's a bad guess at all; he's got charisma and brains to spare.

I take him to be the genuine article -- a sense of public dedication and a big-picture ability to round the edges to make things work in the Senate. I think the people of Illinois totally lucked out with their two current U.S. Senators, Durbin and Obama.

[Radical Activist]

30. I heard David Brooks describe Democrats as having beaten dog syndrome.

He's a conservative asshat, but he's right about that. Many progressive Democrats are defeatist and have forgotten that's ok to have a progressive who can actually appeal beyond the base and win. I think some progressives are so used to our side losing that they think backing a winner with mass appeal means they've sold out.

[saltpoint]

53. I hear you on Brooks. I resent Brooks in part because he's talented.

And I hate it when conservatives are talented!

On Obama and your points, yes. The successful American presidencies expanded the base of their initial electoral support. Obama is a candidate who could do that.

He is a gifted man and I hope and predict we will see much of him in large public roles from here on in.

[wiley]

45. He spoke directly to you, didn't he?

I got the same history and hope in the making as when Wes Clark spoke and people from the halls just pushed into the auditorium, or gathered in awe in the lobbies watching monitors. There were other electric speakers as well, like Martin O'Malley. Two prominent speakers left me with the dread that we had just nominated two candidates for Pres/VP and made them the most politically massaged, schooled, prompted, manicured, posed and practically neutered candidates we could. Both of whom, incidentally, had voted for the Iraqi War Resolution. If they had both told all the pundits and consultants to just fuc off, we would have landslided the election.

[saltpoint]

54. I agree that Obama's address seemed at once universal anthem and

personal appeal.

His future, I believe, is a very bright one.

But I voted for Kerry-Edwards with all my heart. And would vote that same heart for them if their names appeared on a ballot for the same office tomorrow.

I'm in the blue seats, cheering for the blue team. These six years of the Bush administration have been brutal.

[blondeatlast]

19. The answer? Good DUers swallowing the RW troll hype whole.

Distressing, to say the least.

[antigop]

20. Obama sold out the American worker on the pension bill

...along with most of the Senate Dems.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00230

[Radical Activist]

26. So only the two Democrats who voted No are good enough for you?

Good to know. Only two Democrats in the entire Senate pass your litmus test. Now I see why Obama is so unpopular.

[antigop]

39. You asked what makes Obama a corporate sellout

I answered your question.

He voted for the pension destruction act, along with most of the Senate Dems.

[Catchawave]

22. I like Obama !

:kick: Ignore the "Debby Downers" :toast:

[calico1]

25. Ugh. I hate push polls!

x(

[Radical Activist]

27. I hate ugly accusations made without backing evidence.

Good reasons why Obama is suddenly a conservative is something still missing from this thread, so I think I made my point.

[calico1]

35. I still hate push polls even if I like the person it's

about. ;-)

[pnwmom]

37. EVERY Democrat is a "corporate sell-out" to some DU'ers,

for example, the Naderites.

[antigop]

40. Most of the Senate Dems sold out the American worker

on the pension destruction bill.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00230

[Imagevision]

38. Obama's good, I'd vote him in as prez in a heartbeat!

[McCamy Taylor]

41. It is because "he speaks so well" LOL.

:rofl:

[bling bling]

43. Corporate sell out is the excuse.

There's a far more superficial reason for most of the people who don't like Obama. They use the "corporate whore" "DLC'er" bullshit (and you've already proven that it's utter bullshit) to cover up their real reason.

Christians and Republicans aren't the only groups who have issues with racism. We have a lot of work to do on the left, too. And this place is no exception by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm sorry. I'm just keeping it real. It sounds harsh but it's true.

The first instinct is to want to just go into denial or make up excuses for people because we don't want to believe our suspicions. But turning our heads the other way on the issue of racism because it makes us uncomfortable or because we don't want to believe "we" have a problem with it is cowardly.

So to the people who don't like Obama because he's a DLC'er, I'm calling RACISM. I won't even give them the benefit of the doubt of being imbeciles any more because this lie has been confronted a hundred million times. If they want to assassinate Obama's character on a popular public forum, they'll have to come up with a more creative, or at least a FACTUAL reason for their dislike of him.

[unkachuck]

46. if not loving Obama....

....is being a racist, then I'm a racist....I'm not going to vote for a person because they're African American or because they're not African American....Obama is TOO slick....he can and will bullshit the Left as fast as be can and will bullshit the Right....that make him a potential opportunist....time will tell....

....it's not where he's been, but where he's going....and I don't see him doing me a whole lot of good....

[bling bling]

47. Ok. If you say so.

But I must say that your reasoning for not liking Obama and declaring how full of shit he is, is pathetically unconvincing. Facts, evidence, and statistics, and voting records would make the argument that he's full of shit a little more credible. And I don't think asking for a shred of evidence to back up one's accusations is too much to ask when it comes to calling out our OWN Dem reps for being crooked shady bullshitters. Especially when you're using that argument as proof of the reason you don't like the guy and not for other more superficial reasons.

But that's just me, and you don't have to prove anything to me, of course.

[Radical Activist]

55. Can't stand to back a winner huh?

The left finally has someone that can articulate our ideas in a way that has mass, majority approval and you can't stand to back him because I guess progressive figures are supposed to look goofy or scream wildly and scare people. Beaten dog syndrome.

[tkmorris]

48. Okay........

I don't like Obama because I'm a racist eh? Ok, that's fine. Do I dislike Alan Keyes for the same reason? I guess this could also explain my distaste for Mel Martinez, but could you explain why I can't tolerate Ted Stevens? That could be age discrimination I suppose, but then I LOVE Walter Mondale and Gary Hart, both of whom are getting long in the tooth.

Please help me understand all this, your post has made me realize I have severe issues and I will need explanations for my therapist. Thanks in advance.

[Senator]

50. ** January 6th, 2005 **

Obama was derelict in his duty to object to the unlawful Ohio electors.

Unlike Sen. Boxer, who stood up for us, he chose the insiders over the outsiders.

This is still the bottom line.

We either "move on" from those who have failed us, or move forward in dishonesty (with Obama, or Kerry, or Gore, or Hillary etc...).

Yes, you have to choose sides. Obama already has.

--

[KoKo]

56. Simple answer...Anyone the MSM pushes is someone that is suspect.

After all this time...those of us who've been through many election cycles can spot the "faves" of the Corporate Media and know to look behind the curtain. There's always something behind that curtain that will come back and bite us in the butt.

[Radical Activist]

57. Like Howard Dean?

He was pushed pretty hard core by the media until he lost Iowa. I didn't like Dean but I give his public relations team credit for doing a great job of getting him out there. While I do think Dean was the more corporate friendly candidate being pushed onto liberals, I think that sometimes it just means a person has charisma and a good PR person.
Its kind of sad to think that if a liberal is ever skilled and charismatic enough to get good media coverage and broad public support that a certain number of liberals will automatically run away from that candidate and run for another loser since that is what they're used to.

[KoKo]

58. You don't remember what the MSM did to Howard Dean? Nevermind n/t

[Radical Activist]

59. I remember how they promoted him for at least six months before Iowa.

Yes, the media turned on Dean once they saw he was losing. But don't pretend they weren't giving him mountains of coverage before that and acted like he was the only anti-war candidate to choose from. Dean got as far as he did in large part because of constant media attention.

[Radical Activist]

60. Saw a comment in another claiming Obama was too conservative.

I'm still wondering why.

[Alhena]

61. LOL Good post

I can't describe how enthusiastic I am about Obama after watching him appear on all these tv programs lately. I think we might finally have the candidate we've been waiting so long for. One thing I didn't realize was that he graduated with high honors from Harvard law school. That is elite, elite intelligence.