If dean wins the nomination but loses the GE

[retyred]

Barring a repeat of selection 2000, Who do you blame?

My choice would have to be #1, dean cannot get the job done for so many reasons.

On edit: Forgot the big "IF"

[BootinUp]

1. Suggestion

I wonder if they will lock this from the title? Maybe add an "If..."

[webkev]

2. the people who vote in the primaries (nt)

[retyred]

8. That would be #4

That was my second choice, since most dean supporters can't/won't believe that deans popularity is in part due to the right wanting him as a candidate by voting dean in the primary and bush in the general I phrased it as "fooled"


retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[dfong63]

19. you won't believe that of Clark either, will you?

since most dean supporters can't/won't believe that deans popularity is in part due to the right wanting him as a candidate

how do you know the rightwing isn't doing the same thing to boost Clark's candidacy? Clark is untested and unqualified in the political arena, and has the additional handicap of having only been a democrat for 3 months. rest assured Rove will exploit those weaknesses dems give him the chance.

[retyred]

34. when was the last time

someone posted that the Rove machine wanted Clark to be the nominee?

No Rove and the boys want no part of Clark.



retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[Rose Siding]

3. Bush strategist says Dean's rivals are "doing a great job for us." (NYT)

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/26/politics/campaigns/26REPU.html?ei=5062&en=f70dde43205be535&ex=1073019600&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=

[mopinko]

4. you forgot one

fratricidal dems like you and so many others here.

[edzontar]

6. THAT is who will be to blame--along with the Whore Media.

nt

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. oh brother...this is really rich

dean loses and you guys want to blame the people who have been trying to warn you he was going to lose.

yeah right...kill the canary because he tried to warn you the mine was filling with gas.

heaven forbid the people who have been promoting the loser in the first place would step up and admit they were wrong... it couldn't possibly be their fault....

[INTELBYTES]

29. LOL, Bear!

Like your analogy, and agree with your post as well!

:toast:

[zeemike]

5. No selection there for me

Blame Bush for steeling the election, because that is the only way he could win if there is a large voter turn out And if Dean is the nominee there will be a large turnout.

[Padraig18]

7. Non dean supporters crying he's unelectable. n/t

[webkev]

9. thats stupid

we say that for a reason..
some of us old timers have seen this before

[Padraig18]

11. It's not stupid.

We must agree to disagree.

[OrAnarch]

14. hrm...

would your reason be to justify support in your own cadidate? Such a statement is based on nothing but speculation, which no matter what you say, is biased in light of your own cadidate. Hence, not really qualified political analysis.

[dfong63]

18. LOL

[jumptheshadow]

23. Simple logic

If Dean's electable then he will be elected. :)

If he isn't elected then he wasn't a strong candidate.

A strong candidate in the primary does not necessarily equal a strong candidate in the GE.

However, if Dean does sweep the election, if his grassroots support is as strong as his supporters contend, then he will be judged a good candidate.

It will all come out in the wash.

[mitchum]

31. Why, because we cast some kind of bad mojo voodoo on him...

due to our lack of enthusiasm? Padraig18, I respect you (although I don't care for your candidate), but that's just...

[PurityOfEssence]

37. There will also be plenty of blaming that we just didn't work hard enough

Many of the more partisan Deanies will point the finger at those of us who oppose his nomination but will fight hard for his election should he be the standard-bearer. There will be a blinkered unwillingness to accept any failings on the part of their cause or leader, even if the scenarios some of us predict actually play out.

Too much of the mindset that's prevailing among partisans of various candidates, and certainly his, is far beyond reason.

I fully expect that should this happen, even if the Deanies used ham-handed tactics to force their guy to the nomination and marginalize others, thus not availing themselves of the wisdom of the primary system for determining the most successful candidate, that the finger will be pointed at everyone but themselves or their guy.

Let's hope that this doesn't happen.

[PurityOfEssence]

39. Unintentional mistake; beyond edit period

Not having read the note about not using nicknames for candidate supporters, I used a term--a fairly innocuous one, as you can see--in this post that would fall under those rules. This was unintentional, and won't happen again.

(A nice person pointed this out to me, but my edit period has already passed.)

[cryofan]

10. Dean loses b/c Greens nominate an economic liberal

The candidate of the Greens will be an economic liberal, and that person should attack Dean, because Dean is a economic conservative who happened to obfuscate his record with media propaganda. If the Green candidate can run ads showing how Dean did that, and showing how conservative Dean was in Vermont and showing his dislike of liberals and the left (see this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=27556&mesg_id=27556 ), then the Greens can draw a significant fraction of the Democrat vote, easily enough to ensure Bush's victory. Not only that, but it will give the Greens more money, ballot access, and stature for the future.

The Green Party may run Cynthia McKinney, someone who is well known in the African American community, and who has some national recognition. Also, if Nader runs independently, that will draw even more votes from the Dems. So, Dean loses......

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. I chose a "lying Bush"

Because at root, that is the problem. We have a President who would tell any lie that was convenient to the Nation to pursue his neocom Right wing aganda. Of course I expect Bush to lie, so I am backing who I believe is best equipped to handle that, which is Clark. I also think Dean would do better than most in that regard, because he is good at fighting back.

[SheilaT]

15. Are you assuming

a fair, free, and honest election process in November? Because if you are, Dean (or any other Democratic nominee) would win in a landslide. Remember that Gore WON by over half a million votes, and he's acknowledged to have run a crappy campaign.

The real issue is going to be how the Republicans campaign once Dems have a nominee (whether before or after the convention). They will stop at nothing to prevent the "re-election" of Bush. We can never forget that these people came to power in a coup. They know that, they know they weren't legitimately elected, and they will make sure they stay in power by any means possible.

So the issue isn't if Dean is the nominee (or if Clark, or Kerry, or anyone else is), but what are we going to do to make sure that there is a free, fair, and honest election process in November. And to make sure that the campaign never lets up on reminding people about how Bush took less than a year to bring us from peace, prosperity, and budget surpluses to war, recession, and deficits. We have to bring up the question of why 9/11 happened. We have to remind people of the hundreds of Americans who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have to keep a running total of jobs lost, of pensions disappeared, of higher taxes -- all to benefit the fat-cat friends of Bush.

I'm sure I've left out a few things, but everything needs to be on the table for the election campaign.

[dansolo]

16. GOTV is the most important factor

I think this electability garbage is rediculous, because the swing voters that it concerns are, at most, 10% of the population. I think the key to winning the election is to target the 50% of the population that doesn't vote. Honestly, I don't think the fact that Clark is a 4 star general is really very important to those people. These are the sort of people who don't really pay attention to the politics, and are probably more concerned that they may not have a job or a home to be bothered voting. These are the voters that are ripe to be gained by the Democrats.

[dfong63]

17. sour grapes on the part of Clark supporters

get real, your candidate has no better chance against Bush than Dean does. you're only fooling yourself to say otherwise.

[batman]

20. answer this question about clark first

i personally hold voters responsible when elections are honest

[rucky]

21. All of the above...and Diebold

Picking one is just scapegoating to shed the blame from ourselves.

[Desertrose]

22. good lord...you can't seriously blame non dean supporters?

How pathetic is that? All I hear is how friggin' many supporters Dean has and how much money , how high in the polls, blah blah blah...and you are trying to blame the rest who don't support him when he will lose to bush? You are blaming Dems when you should be looking to other reasons...un real!

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Dean is just the wrong man for the job???

Peace
DR

[mitchum]

32. It's very pathetic...

and the type of thinking which lends credence to accusations of cult-like behavior.

[JohnKleeb]

35. I agree it is pathenic

I fess, I am no big fan of Dean's, much too moderate for my liking and support but should he get the nomination, I'll do what I can, and I bet many others who feel the same as I do will. Yeah DR I hear about that too, money and supporters, yet it will be our fault if he loses.

[Terwilliger]

24. You left out "the Democratic party"

it's always something or someone else

[Northwind]

25. I am NBD

Nobody but Dean, and I still answered #1.

[quinnox]

26. If this scenario takes place, I'm afraid the blame would fall squarely

on the shoulders of the Democratic party, and its members.

If we nominate another Dem in the line of McGovern-Mondale-Dukakis and then expect a different result, we are only fooling ourselves.

Perhaps the lesson, not learned three times, will be learned for good this time if the scenario outlined occurs.

[TheUnknownPoster]

27. I like Dean, but I voted #1

If he loses the election fair and square, it's nobody's fault but his own.

[retyred]

28. While I'm not surprised

some here are willing to blame non-supporters for deans loss, from the posts I've read that say it's your fault and your attitude that will be the cause if dean does lose, I find it refreshing the number isn't higher. Maybe it's just the same few that are posting the same old response.


retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[INTELBYTES]

30. How about the DNC being somewhat at fault?

They aren't exactly doing their job backing a viable candidate. My personal choice is Clark, but I think they are doing a disservice to the party and Dean by turning their back on him.

[deutsey]

33. I'll blame the Democratic Party for abondoning Dean

the way it abandoned Carter (read Walter Karp's Liberty Under Seige).

The Democrats: We're not just a Political Party, we're a Circular Firing Squad!

:evilfrown:

[arewethereyet]

36. the party, for refusal to see the handwritting on the wall

I've finally figured out why people refuse to see Dr Dean self destructing. Too much personal financial investment, they just can't walk away from the money.

[bitchkitty]

38. You left out voting machine fraud -

that's the only way Bush can win in 2004.

[Donna Zen]

40. #1, #7, #8

A parody...this thread actually has people blaming others for not supporting Dean in the primaries. It has posters who refuse to accept that other posters see this entire election very differently.

Accountability...that means you.

We already know that bush will lie...it is a given. We know that repubs will crossover to chose the weakest candidate to run against bush...common practice when one party has no primary. So the only true issue is Dean. If he loses, it is because the majority of Americans rejected his candidacy. Now this could happen to any of the candidates, but you are given time now to chose the strongest one for these times, and against bush. I do not expect this to come down to the popular vs the electoral votes.

Accountability...you...not someone else. This is your choice and only you are making it.