Katherine Harris rolls the dice on tax plan (advocates National Sales Tax)

[Human Torch]

Harris rolls the dice on tax plan

Senate candidate says it 'makes sense' -- but others disagree.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061007/NEWS/610070341

By SARA LUBBES, Last modified: October 07. 2006 6:33AM

With four weeks left in her campaign for U.S. Senate, Katherine Harris is pushing for a drastic overhaul of the way Americans pay taxes.

But the timing and her lack of details about the plan have led some to question whether it is born of studied conviction or a desperate gamble to attract voters to her lagging campaign.

The plan -- shuttering the Internal Revenue Service and in its place creating a national sales tax -- would be perhaps the greatest domestic policy change since Medicare was introduced 40 years ago.

---SNIP---

But economists say the plan is too good to be true. They argue the tax would actually have to be much higher, perhaps 40 or 50 cents of every dollar spent, to generate enough money to run the government. "Nowhere in any developed country do you see a sales tax that high," said Gilbert Metcalf, a professor of economics at Tufts University in Massachusetts. And critics say the program would create a government bureaucracy just as lumbering as the IRS that Harris wants to destroy. A massive Social Security-like operation would have to be created to send out the rebate checks. The plan could also encourage people to buy goods on the black market to avoid the tax, Metcalf said. It would impose a sales tax of at least 23 cents of every dollar spent on virtually all goods and services, from groceries to dental bills.

National Sales Tax Links

A National Sales Tax No Vote: The rates would be vastly higher than what you might suspect (Bruce Bartlett)

Pelosi: ‘National Sales Tax Would be Burden for Middle Class Americans, But Boon for the Wealthy’

Retailers File Comments Urging Rejection of Consumption Tax (National Retail Federation)

23% rate touted by Fair Tax supporters is misleading (Roth & Company)

"You know, I'm not exactly sure how big the national sales tax is going to have to be, but it's the kind of interesting idea that we ought to explore seriously," Bush said, according to a Reuters report. (CNN, 08/11/04)

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[1932]

7. National Sales Tax would put middle class out of business.

If you want tax simplification, we should just withhold exactly what people owe from all their income streams when the money is received and only require people to file tax returns if they are owed refunds at the end of the tax year. That's the way they do it in the UK.

[Webster Green]

2. That's the broad with the bad make-up and fake tits, ain't it?

I don't like her.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

11. she has LOTS of real tits...

They are just hard to see, because she walks on four legs.

[Ravy]

3. I think Fair Tax is a bad idea.

Besides the issues mentioned at the bottom of the post, all of the money that people have in savings and in property will be taxed *again* when the savings is withdrawn or property sold and the money is spent again.

[Human Torch]

5. That's the worst strike against it...the "double dip"

There are NO provisions in the plan...NONE...for saved income that has already had the Income Tax applied. When you spend it, it gets taxed. If the estimates of a 50% tax (in addition to state sales taxes) are correct, it could add up to 91 cents out of every dollar going to the government.

Initial income tax (approx): 33%
National Sales Tax: 50 cents on a dollar (or more)
State Sales Tax: approx 8 cents, depends on state
TOTAL: 91 cents comes out of every dollar you spend from savings.

I know Freepers "kinda like" the idea because Neal Boortz tells them to like it, and they kinda like to do what they're told by their favorite radio hosts like Boortz, Hannity, Limbaugh and Savage. It would ruin senior citizens on fixed incomes, as well as the unemployed who tap into their nest eggs for survival. Eventually it would ruin the Freepers too, which would be the only redeeming factor of this scam.

:patriot:

[Ravy]

6. Not to mention... most states have an income AND sales tax.

So they put in this "Fair tax" and all of a sudden some a**hat wants to invade Iran, but we need more bombs. What is to prevent them from *re-instituting* the income tax on top of "now accepted" sales tax? We could easily be stuck with both at some point in the future.

I am a pay-as-you-go kind of guy, but changing the rules after a lifetime of financial planning scares the crap out of me.

[bluestateguy]

4. Who? I didn't know she was even still campaigning.

Just ignore her.

[rucky]

8. BANZAI!

:nuke:

[lonehalf]

9. Here's a link to the "Fair Tax" that she is supporting.

I'm neutral about it so far because I haven't had time to study it.

But I have read some and talked to Georgians about it.

Here's the basics (read for yourself though):

1) All taxes (income, payroll, corporate, etc) go away.
2) A national sales tax of 23% on all retail sales.
3) Every household would receive a check from the Government every month that covers basic needs.
4) The IRS would be abolished.
5) It would get the tax cheaters except the ones who go "black-market.

The supporters (mostly middle class and non-aligned ideologues) say it will be good for the entire world.
The opponents (mostly Liberals and Progressives say it will hurt the poor. They usually point out number 2, and not the other provisions.

Like I say, study it for yourself.

But it has many supporters in Congress.

The bill number is HR25.

You can study it here and make up your own mind.

http://www.fairtax.org/

[Human Torch]

10. That's the "official" site...

...so none of the shortcomings or idiosyncrasies found by those who have studied it will be found there.

First: the 23% rate is highly unlikely. More than one source has tagged it at 50% or more.

Second, the "basic needs" check is $500 and is based on the number of people in the household. If a National Sales Tax imposes 50 cents on every dollar in addition to current state taxes, the check ends up being a tiny percentage of what will actually be paid out.

Third, the "IRS would be abolished" idea is popular with people, but the NEW government agency that would have to be set up to mail out the monthly checks and administer the program would be just as big, if not bigger.

I have no problem with people going to the link you provided. I suggest they also go to the ones in my original post if they really want to make up their own minds (as opposed to being swayed by the architects of the plan).

This is not a "high five, woo hoo, the IRS will be abolished" plan. The price paid by Americans will be just as high, and in all likelihood, higher.