Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Kerry? God I hope not.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Clem Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:42 PM
Original message
Kerry? God I hope not.
This is a post from Dean for America blog, and I think it deserves a mention.

If John Kerry is nominated, I believe we might as well just write off both the election and the party as a whole. Even assuming Kerry can win the general election, we will have gained something far less than the greatest possible result. Kerry has time and again demonstrated himself to be an opportunistic hypocrite who will say and do anything to get elected, and then promptly drop it afterwards.

He threw someone else's medals up the capital steps in the famous Vietnam protest. His medals hang on the walls of his senate office, trotted out and run up the flag poll like no honest veteran ever would. In the last fifteen years, he has collected more special interest money than any other senator, regardless of party, yet now, inspired by Dean's meteoric rise in the polls, rails against them in every speech. More and more information is surfacing about unethical gifts and favors he has accepted and given.

Look at Kerry's record. Has he ever stood up for us when we needed him most, when it wasn't popular to do so? Has he any great accomplishments to his name, other than surviving three superficial wounds in Vietnam and then halfheartedly protesting the war and calling his fellow soldiers evildoers?

Kerry's senate record is one of blatant opportunism. He has voted with Ted Kennedy 93% of the time (when he actually did show up for votes), is an ardent supporter of gun control, voted against the first gulf war when there were more than enough reason for our involvement, and was the epitome of a Massachusetts liberal until races got too close for comfort or when he decided to run for president within the last few years.

When he thinks it's popular, he flees from his past record and imitates the Republicans. In his 1998 senate race against Bill Weld, he made standardized testing, school accountability, and an anti-NEA message the overriding theme of his campaign. Once he got elected, however, it was completely forgotten. More recently, he voted FOR the Patriot Act, FOR the unilateral preemptive war in Iraq, and FOR the No Child Left Behind Act, but then after Dean proved it was popular to do so, railed against all three on the campaign trail. He didn't even participate in 33 of the 38 votes on the recent Medicare act which he now assails. Kerry only began speaking up for people after Dean's campaign eroded his base of support to virtually nothing. Now he talks the talk, but how can we trust him to fight the good fight when he has never given all of his energy to it and put everything on the line for it ever before in his life. "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in the moments of comfort and convenience," as Martin Luther King Jr. so famously said, "but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy."

John Forbes Kerry is Just For Kerry, and if this party nominates him, we will lose more than just an election. He stands for nothing and no one but his own election, none of his positions are beyond compromise if they interfere with that goal. We will lose our purpose in the general election by selling our collective soul to the hollow devil of electability. We simply cannot afford to just nominate a candidate. I want to nominate a president worthy of the job and our unwavering support.

We have in Howard Dean a rare and unique opportunity to elect a truly great man to office at a time when this country most needs his special kind of greatness. He is a man beholden to no one save his own conscience and we the people. He is a man able to look at complex situations and quickly arrive at an accurate diagnosis and a logical solution. He is a man unafraid to say what has to be said, when it is time to say it, regardless of whether he thinks we want to hear it - for all his supposed gaffes, has he really actually been wrong? He has quite literally put his life on the line, withstanding death threats and being forced to wear a bulletproof vest while campaigning in 2000, for the rights of people he has no personal connection to because he believes that the cause of equality is a just one. He has built a campaign in the spirit of the American dream, a campaign of by and for the people, financed with donations averaging just over one hundred dollars from over three hounded thousand people, like you and I. We are Howard Dean's special interests, each and every one of us.

I beg you, for the future of this country, do not throw away this historic opportunity. If we agree that the ascendancy of the far right has caused significant damage to the values and institutions we hold dear, we must nominate the man most capable of righting those wrongs and restoring this country to health. That is why, until, as Bill Clinton once put it, the last dog dies, I will fight with all my strength to ensure that the right man gets the nomination of our party, and not just the most convenient.

Sean Robertson (apparently he couldn't finish his whole post)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. He slams Kerry then quotes Clinton (the all time compromiser) to close?
This post is an appeal to emotion that reduces Kerry's entire career to three votes cast during the most deranged presidential administration in American history.

IF you don't like Kerry...there's more factual ways to appeal to voters. For some reason even the anti-war vote went to him.

Dean has not engendered the confidence of the masses. Dean's supporters need to determine why that is.

I think the answer lies closer to Howard Dean than to John Kerry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Hey, NSMA, met Vanessa Kerry and Ted Kennedy today in
Bangor, Maine.

Did you know she's a 3rd year med student? Boy, did she hammer on the Republican plan to do in Medicare...she's is going to be a big asset for John in the GE.

And Ted was great, the man is fired up for John! He chidded Maria Shriver in his speech.....something to the effect "us Kennedy's are 100% Democrat, well make that 39/40"..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. blah, blah, blah
You lost me after this sentence-
"If John Kerry is nominated, I believe we might as well just write off both the election and the party as a whole."

I think the issue is quickly becoming....will remaining Dean supporter's hang with Howard in the Party or will they return to Ralph's campaign again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. purists make me puke
Edited on Fri Feb-06-04 03:56 PM by codegreen
utter rubbish. people with these attitudes might as well be Republicans, or in a coma.

if you're not going to lift a finger to help your country because you're in some ridiculous quest for perfection, or your moral code won't let you go with the 'lesser of two evils', then your awareness is wasted

and you may as well not have any idea what's going on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. if you won't vote, what does it matter what you think?
i'm a Kucinich person myself, voted for him here in MO.
i'm voting for the nominee.
anyone who won't vote for the nominee might as well be apolitical, and might as well not think anything at all on the matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. And anybody who votes for the nominee
just because he isn't Bush might as well be a sheep. ABB is a hostage situation. If you're OK with that, more power to ya but they're not getting me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. i hope you consider rejoining ranks in November
against the worst Fascist dictatorship regime in our history.
i like and supported Dean and Kucinich, i'm learning to like Kerry.
it's not ideal, it's not all i want, and maybe ABB is sort of a hostage situation...

but i hope we can be allies in November, in the most important political battle of our lifetime, to save ourselves, our country, and the world.

after the election, yes i'm all for working for a better party, more accountability, very open to Green/third party increasing their relevence and power.

let's pull our country from this horrible cliff first, then work moreso on improving it. if we fail we'll have lost so much, because Bushco won't be accountable to anything, they'll do whatever they want and we'll be so screwed...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Well, you are a VERY principled person. Nothing worse than
a VERY principled person having to compromise his principles. Far better to aid and abet the Republican Party's re-election and help insure a RW lock on SCOTUS for the next 30 years. We wouldn't want that VERY principled conscience of yours to be lowered to our level, nosiree; we think you should remain high above the fray in your elitist perch, because you are, afterall, a VERY principled person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Now there's a mature outlook!
Who cares what you think?

Grow up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Grow up, fall in line
and vote for the corporate whore with the D after his name, huh? Sorry, but no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Are you saying Dean isn't a Democrat, Democbrat?
Howard will be pissed if you are misrepresenting his Party affiliation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Grow up and support your candidate
with cogent arguments why you support him, ans why others should as well..."Who cares what you think" is childish and bratty. It does not win points. It does not win debates. It does not win votes. All it wins is enemies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Oh wow, enemies on DU.
I'm so bummed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. I repeat...
Grow up
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. It's not purism. It's pragmatism.
John Kerry is not electable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. if he ends up the nominee, he's the only one that is electable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I wasn't referring to the primary. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. You have a point.
Whichever Democrat wins the nomination will be the only electable Democrat.

But the only Democrat who has the demonstrated national strength to beat Bush is Kerry.

Howards 0-9 in Democratic primaries...why can't you accept reality?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. But he won't be elected.
Again, "electable" by core Democrats means unelectable by the vast majority of non-Dems who are also anti-Bush.

Too bad that it would have to take a Kerry nomination for Kerry supporters to see the proof of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:08 PM
Original message
But Howard Dean is......right.
Excuse us media dupes for not understanding the Dean mantra that Kerry's not electable. National polls show him beating Bush by 9 points.....Dean has yet to prove in can win a Democratic primary.

Your counter-intuitive logic is devoid of any facts that corroborates this talking point.

I suppose you have to believe this, otherwise you'd have to question the reason you are so emotionally attached to your candidate....but rational, mainstream Democrats are more interested in beating Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Casablanca Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
48. You think Repubs might be freeping the polls with faux pro-Kerry votes?
If I were a conservative, that's what I'd be doing if polled.

And $3 mil in less than two weeks says more than national polls.

Rule of thumb - if the corporate media gives red carpet treatment to a candidate with a voting record "left of Kennedy", the candidate doesn't have a chance. If they trash a candidate that has gone on the record against media consolidation, it's a smear campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. well, staying home sure isn't spineless, hypocritical, shortsighted...
indeed, anyone's protest lack-of-vote is going to really resonate,
we're all ears. abstain away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Please
Don't throw a strawman argument at me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why does this look like a subtle "hit piece"???
:eyes:

This is a shameful slander and that is all it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. it's from howard dean's site
it's from howard dean's blog. so take it as such.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Halfheartedly" protested the war? Give me a break.
Sorry, VVAW was not halfhearted. I was of that age. I remember. This article crosses the line into self pity. If Howard Dean - whom I admire and respect - should be nominated, then make your case to the voters and get him nominated. I understand the frustration of Dean supporters; I felt it in 1968, my first campaign, when I worked for Gene McCarthy. I hope Sean Robertson does indeed fight with all his strength for his candidate, but I also hope that he realizes that just because he says it should be so, will not make it so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Completely blind to anything wrong with Howard Dean
it's a problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kerry lost my respect months ago.
And everything that's happened since has just confirmed my impressions. Kerry or Bush? A sock puppet who's owned by oil companies or a weakling who's owned by insurance companies? Who cares? Not me. For the first time in 30 years I won't even bother to vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. your awareness is wasted. you might as well have no idea what's going on.
you might as well have never voted, never came to DU.
you might as well have never paid any attention to politics,
if you can't bother to or lower yourself to vote against the Bush this fall.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Says who?
An apologist for a Bush enabler? Sorry, my vote has to be earned, and JK has earned nothing but contempt. I won't have Bush held over my head, and I won't be shamed, threatened or bullied into voting for somebody who I despise as much as Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. well, you're vote is obviously worthless
because it isn't going to go anywhere even remotely effective in November, right?
go back to Playstation and Survivor, us responsible adults will handle the future of the country from here.
hope we don't fail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. You already have.
The country's run by corporate whores and if you have your way that will never change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. i definately want it to change. but we can only do so much in one year
and in one voting session.

it's like an emergency room situation where the patient has cancer and a slit throat. sure, the cancer sucks and we've got to get on top of that, but first thing is to stop the bleeding
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. I agree. These posts sadden me.
Especially when Kerry is blamed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. That blog is full of nonsense.
Just one thing. Kerry threw away the ribbons not the medals. The rest of the statements are just as lame. Maybe this stuff is why Dean did not do better in the elections. His attitude is very poor and he makes statements that come back and bit him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. This post is so off the beam
it is actually funny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. This blogger is another KNOW-NOTHING, isn't he?
Try READING and COMPREHENDING the last 35 years, Sean Robertson, you ignoramus.

Why post another blog entry that ignores Kerry's 35 yr, record, Clem?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clem Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Because Kerry is a wannabe
and he still hasn't shown leadership.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. Really? Ever hear of BCCI? IranContra? CIA drugrunning?
The FIRST gayfriendly legislation in the Senate was submitted by Kerry.

The first to advocate for gays to serve openly in the military was Kerry.

You really don't know much about Kerry do you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. Just a mention?
Looks like you posted the whole thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. sour grapes
from the shrinking dean support. Kerry support is gaining momentum making the primary process going forward a foregone conclusion. His approval numbers are highest amongst those not voting for him in the primaries already held, he's got the most support against Bush, he's unlikely to make verbal gaffes as Dean has, and can challenge Bush on national security while having a impressively liberal voting record despite some bellyaching on his IWR vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Dean supporters not sour grapes. But Kerry does cry wolf.
Know thy fables.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh
phooey. :argh: x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
D G Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's a decently written "rallying call" to support Dean
Unfortunately it is not well-supported by facts about Kerry. It's well-supported by generalizations, innuendo and ignorance about Kerry, though.

Even assuming Kerry can win the general election, we will have gained something far less than the greatest possible result.

Someone cue the Rolling Stones: "You can't always get what ya want..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. go Sean!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. blah blah sour grapes blah blah
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. Can you post some of the whining posts from the blog, too?
There's plenty to choose from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. Convinced me to cast my vote elsewhere,
but not necessarily to Dean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
36. Change the channel, already.
What is it with all the blah-blah?

Does Trippi owe you money, too?

Dean is all talk. So's the blog.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-06-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
52. Locking
Inflammatory

DU Moderator
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC