An impeachment that COULD work.

[reprobate]

Impeach the bums! We hear it all the time. We say it all the time.

But WHICH bums?

Bush? No one deserves it more, but it's a hard sell. Too many Americans are hesitant to impeach a president, no matter how bad the job he's done. And there are still many repugs who support - or at least won't impeach him for it to work.

But let's think for a moment. Whose impeachment would be easier? And whose impeachment would be more effective in crippling this evil administration?

Who was behind the outing of Valarie Plame?

Who was the architect of the Lebanon-Israel war?

Who was behind our failed energy policy?

Who was the biggest advocate of the Iraq invasion - even during Gulf War I?

Who signed the PNAC documents?

Whose idea was it to create a "Unitary President"?

Whose national approval ratings are even lower than Mad George's?

Who thinks he's the clone of Spiro T. Agnew?

Who decided to appoint himself acting president....sorry, Vice President?

Answer to all the above: Richard Fuck You Cheney!

Ok, how did you do on this little pop quiz?

This, folks, is the person most responsible for our fall from grace in the eyes of the world.

And this is the person whose removal from office would absolutely cripple this administration.

Let me suggest that without Dickhead Cheney pulling the strings of power, this presidency would fall on it's face in just a few months, thereby obviating the need to impeach Bush. Let him fall by his own stupidity without behind propped up by the man behind the curtain.

Here's a man who really COULD be impeached. And he really did commit impeachable high crimes and misdemeanors.

So this is the meme that should be circulating among the blogs and dem web sites. Talk it up out there and we really could be effective as Democrats this time.

[elehhhhna]

1. Cheney could be impeached.

But if you think that will stop him from running things from his bunker, guess again.

I DO like the public shame aspect of it though. He is soooo deserving.

[Fridays Child]

2. If Cheney vacates his office, Bush gets to nominate his replacement.

Impeaching Cheney might be a good place to start, if Democrats gain the majority in the Senate.

[Sherman A1]

3. Correct!

And then you have a sitting VP that would very likely run for the #1 spot in '08, thereby giving them some edge. Yes, Cheney should be impeached along with his "boss", but I don't think this option is the answer.

[yebrent]

4. Impeach both of them!

If the Dems win the House, then they could impeach both of them. There is no lack of high crimes and misdemeanors to justify it. Even if the Dems don't control the Senate, it would be hugely damaging to the Republicans in the Senate to vote in support of both Bush and Cheney. They could remove Cheney from office as a sacrifice to save Bush. Bush would be weakened even further during the entire process. He might keep his 30-35% of support, but there is no way he would be in the 60s, like Clinton. Nobody died when Clinton lied. Bush would be the lamest of lame ducks.

I just thought of a crazy possibility. What if Cheney gets impeached and removed the Senate, and Bush gets impeached, but the Senate splits on his vote? Cheney is no longer VP, so who would cast the tie breaking vote?

[pnwmom]

6. You can't do a drive-by impeachment. Cheney would resign if

impeachment were on the horizon, and Bush would get to appoint his replacement -- who would be in a very good position for 2008. (John McCain, for instance.)

Then, if we impeached Bush, the new V.P. would become President for the remainder of the term, and he would issue a blanket pardon to Bush.

[cascadiance]

7. We would have to impeach both of them simultaneously...

If Dems get control of the House in 2007, then they would do it that way I'd expect. That way, even if Cheney gets impeached, I don't believe that a sitting president who's under impeachment proceedings can appoint a replacement or issue any pardon for someone at that point. I recall seeing earlier that those powers would be suspended at that time. Maybe if they vote to convict Cheney and not Bush, then somehow afterward he could appoint his replacement if that's what you're saying.

I think a lot depends on what happens in November. If the Dems take control of BOTH the House and Senate with strong numbers, then we might even see Cheney resign before the 2007 congress takes session, so that Bush at the last minute could appoint his successor before any impeachment proceedings could start. Perhaps give the "health conditions" excuse, etc. Maybe Cheney might have a "heart flutter" or something like that to legitimize such an excuse. And they would then have to find someone that would not have any investigations/suspicion hanging over him. Hastert wouldn't do in that situation.

If the Dems win control of the Senate, I wonder if they could have it so that the vote to convict Bush/Cheney would be a single vote or if it could be two separate votes, which might lead to Cheney getting convicted and Bush not (need a 2/3rds vote). Or I wonder if Judge Roberts who would be conducting that trial in the Senate would have say over that or not (he definitely would try to control it for the Rethugs and Bush's favor).

I still say that if it gets down to the only thing standing in the way of Bush/Cheney getting convicted of an impeachment is Republicans standing in the way of a 2/3rds vote in the Senate, then that's the time you push HARD on those Republican senators up for re-election in 2008 and tell them that America will hold them responsible if justice isn't served, especially if investigations that are done in 2007 show tons of damning evidence against Bush and Cheney. If they're interested in keeping their jobs and have any chance of getting the presidency in 2008, then they'll want to show some sense of justice if Bush and Cheney are shown to be the criminals we believe they are.

[badgerpup]

25. point of order...

seeing as how Roberts was appointed by Bush...
wouldn't both he and Alito have to recuse themselves from this case?
BFF you scratch my back, I'll pardon your ass Conflict of interest sort of thing...

[cascadiance]

30. It is the chief justice that presides over the senate for impeachment

... by the constitution. I don't know if he could be forced to recuse himself or not. You can bet though that Bush had this as one of his reasons for making Roberts chief justice, and not one of the sitting members chief justice. He probably had Roberts completely schooled on what he'd want done in a situation like this. And you can bet he wasn't planning on having him recuse himself. Also didn't stop Scalia from still ruling on cases in the past when he should have recused himself too, including the big one in 2000.

[pnwmom]

40. Right. From what I have seen, there is no one in a position to

overrule a Justice if he doesn't recuse himself.

I assume a Supreme Court Justice can be impeached, but I can't imagine that happening in this situation, either.

[pnwmom]

8. Cheney would still have plenty of advance notice, and I'm sure he'd resign

if it was likely that he would be impeached.

[cascadiance]

31. I do believe that there is also a congressional approval process

... that needs to be followed if a president appoints a VP successor. I think that congress had to approve Ford when Nixon picked him to replace Agnew, if I'm not mistaken.

If Cheney waited until after the November election to do so, that provides only a month and a half window for him to do so where he would have a GOP majority. And I'm guessing this would be the time that the Democrats hopefully would put their foot down and vote no on cloture to fillibuster this until the new congress takes session.

[NoPasaran]

32. There sure is

The new VP would have to be approved by a majority of both houses.

[pnwmom]

38. You think the Congress would vote no on someone like John McCain?

Or even Jeb?

[cascadiance]

43. If they take a majority of congress in 2007, they will have more leverage.

They might even not have to worry about a selection then if they get Bush and Cheney in one fell swoop and Nancy Pelosi takes over by rule of succession. That's why it would behoove the Dems to fillibuster any attempts at trying to appoint a replacement in November.

Especially someone like Jeb. Why even consider him! McCain maybe, but there you have someone setting themselves up as a more "viable" candidate in 2008 too. The Dems want to avoid having someone to strong if they have to have an appointed successor at all, which they will try to avoid if they do an impeachment "right".

[Independent_Liberal]

45. Please read my "Perfect Storm" piece below, calipendence.

I agree with everything you've said on this thread. You really know what you're talking about. You're one of my favorites on this board along with autorank, understandinglife, Chicago1, Cleita and Miss Waverly.

[Hawkowl]

53. Congress doesn't HAVE to confirm a new VP nt

[NoPasaran]

33. I doubt Bush would nominate McCain

If for no other reason than Arizona's Democratic governor would get to name the new senator.

[pnwmom]

39. Bush will do whatever he thinks is good for Bush. Period.

[NoPasaran]

42. Adding another Democrat to the Senate

Especially since we're fantasizing about impeachment, is unlikely to be "good for Bush", even to his addled brain.

[K8-EEE]

5. My Dad's Protest Sign Says: IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST!

Always gets lots of honks!

[Independent_Liberal]

9. You must be thinking what I'm thinking.

Here's a little something to taunt you with.

IRAQ, PLAME, ABRAMOFF, BIG OIL, DOJ, FBI, CIA, DIA, DOD, NORAD, CENTCOM, NSA, FAA, ETC.
All Roads Lead To
9/11 COMMISSION COVER-UP

Endgame: The Perfect Storm
What sets it off?

Some interesting things start to come to light at the William Jefferson Capitol Hill FBI raid hearings.
1. The Department of Justice, the FBI, Federal Prosecutors and Senate Investigators get some cooperation in the Abramoff case and the “Duke” Cunningham bribery case. Jack gives up all the information he has on everything including defrauded Indian tribes, gaming casinos, lobbying firms, illegal campaign contributions sent to GOP Congress people, foreign influence peddling, illegal arms trafficking, the American Turkish Council, Denny Hastert’s ties to Turkish spies and his shady housing deals, the SunCruz investigation, Guam, Adam Kidan, Michael Scanlon, David Safavian, Grover Norquist, John Colyandro, Jim Ellis, Tom DeLay’s misuse of the FAA and the DHS, his trips to Russia and the people who turned up dead in his district, DeLay’s ARMPAC, Bob Ney’s golf outings in Scotland, his ties to Iran and use of secret government wiretapping operations, Ernie Fletcher, Bob Taft, Tom Noe and Coingate, Ken Blackwell’s stocks in Halliburton, Leandro Aragoncillo and AIPAC-Israeli spy espionage, the Gus Boulis murder case, New Hampshire phone jamming, stolen computers from the Ohio Democratic Headquarters, secret meetings with bankers from the UAE, Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling and Enron, CIA narco-trafficking, GOP prostitution rings and pedophiles, Wally O’Dell and Diebold, HAVA, Ralph Reed, etc. Randy gives up all info on Porter Goss, Kyle Foggo, Brent Wilkes, Mitchell Wade, defense contractors and hooker and poker parties at the Watergate Hotel. They blow the whistle on several Republican leaders in the House, Senate and Executive Branch. All this doo doo hits the fan and Ney, Hastert, John Doolittle, Dana Rohrabacher, Richard Pombo, Roy Blunt, Louis Gohmert, Tom Feeney, Conrad Burns, etc. are all indicted as well as their staff members. Also, Austin, Texas District Attorney Ronnie Earle indicts John Cornyn on charges relating to Abramoff-DeLay money and the SEC charges Bill Frist for his insider trading.
2. Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald manages to obtain info from White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove in the CIA Leak investigation. This is related to missing emails from Cheney’s office and White House documents requested by Federal Judge Reggie Walton.
3. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley is indicted by Fitzgerald for perjury and obstruction of justice and former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith is brought up on espionage charges in the AIPAC case.
4. Fitzgerald indicts Attorney General Alberto Gonzales for obstruction of justice.
5. A few whistleblowers step forward at the open and closed door House and Senate subcommittee hearings on NSA domestic spying and the Pentagon’s 9/11 “Able Danger” program and more interesting info is revealed. Several insiders from AT&T, Bell South and Verizon are forced to release info on phone records and data collected by the NSA.
6. More damaging info is revealed at the House and Senate Katrina hearings.
7. An Independent Commission to investigate the NSA wiretaps is set up. NSA staffer Russell Tice gives testimony before the Commission. Shortly after, the citizens’ appointed special grand jury to investigate torture allegations is set up.
8. Edmonds v. DOJ – FBI translator Sibel Edmonds takes her case with the DOJ on FBI cover-ups to one of the Federal Courts. At the same time, New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer gets an independent grand jury investigation into the 9/11 events in New York City going. Some family members are alleging a government cover-up. An Independent Prosecutor is appointed to investigate the World Trade Center EPA case and other unsolved crimes related to the events.
9. The Democrats win back Congress and the Governorships in the November 2006 midterm elections. They get huge margins in both the House and Senate.
10. Happy New Year. January 2007, 110th Congress, 1st Session – The new Congress is sworn in (with Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader, Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House of Representatives, John Conyers as House Judiciary Committee Chairman, Henry Waxman as House Government Reform Committee Chairman and Louise Slaughter as House Rules Committee Chairwoman).
11. Cheney’s former Chief of Staff I. Lewis Libby is convicted and he implicates Cheney. A bunch of info comes to light about Plame, Halliburton no-bid contracts and Iraq corruption, AIPAC, the Energy Task Force and secret energy meetings and Mexico influence peddling. Cheney is indicted by Fitzgerald for treason, conspiracy, espionage, fraud and tax evasion. Calls are made for his resignation and his head on a silver platter. Cheney resigns. He claims he’s leaving because of health problems. Shortly after, indicted Pentagon official Larry Franklin implicates Rumsfeld in the AIPAC case and Rumsfeld is indicted and resigns.
12. Congress forces Bush to appoint John McCain as Vice President and Joe Lieberman as Secretary of Defense. Both houses of Congress vote overwhelmingly to confirm Vice President McCain. The Senate also confirms Defense Secretary Lieberman.
13. Conyers sets up a House Select Fact Finding Committee to investigate everything (Downing Street Memos, Plame, White House Iraq Group, AIPAC, Niger forgeries, depleted uranium, Patriot Act and IRS abuses, Dubai Ports deals, mining disasters, Edmonds FBI whistleblower case, NSA, Gannon, Abramoff, Enron, Halliburton-Kellogg Brown & Root, Carlyle, Harken, Betchel, WorldCom, 9/11 Commission cover-ups, election fraud, Coingate, torture of prisoners, FEMA’s Katrina response, Pentagon psyops units and secret government propaganda operations in the Office of Special Plans, etc.) Hearings begin and subpoenas are issued. Several whistleblowers from the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, FAA, State Department and Pentagon step forward to testify. The public hearings are broadcast on television 24/7. A few Independent Counsels show Congress their findings from grand jury investigations. And Waxman opens an investigation into Halliburton war profiteering and examines reports from the GAO.
14. The investigation into Senator Paul Wellstone’s 2002 plane crash death is reopened.
15. The Senate sets up an Investigative Committee to investigate Iraq intelligence, Phase II, Plame, NSA, 9/11 oddities, Energy Commission cover-ups and other corruption, waste, fraud and abuse and an Independent Prosecutor is appointed. Senate hearings begin and Sibel Edmonds, Russell Tice, Richard Clarke, James Comey and Lawrence Wilkerson all step forward as witnesses. Ted Kennedy chairs the hearings in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The Abramoff Special Prosecution Force brings evidence before the Senate.
16. United States v. Bush – One of the whistleblower cases goes to the Supreme Court. One of the conservative justices breaks ranks and sides with the liberals on the matter. It is ruled that Bush must turn over documents on FBI cover-ups from the DOJ Inspector General’s office based on allegations by Edmonds and others. Bush refuses to comply. The Senate holds a censure vote.
17. Congress motions to impeach Bush. Impeachment proceedings and hearings begin. The House Judiciary Committee begins voting on articles of impeachment.
18. A small delegation of Congressional Republicans go up to the White House and urge Bush to resign.
19. Bush resigns to avoid impeachment. He fakes an illness.
20. McCain is sworn in as President. He appoints George Pataki as his Vice President. Both houses of Congress vote to confirm Pataki. And of course, McCain-Pataki are Jerry Ford-Nelson Rockefeller until January 2009.

Footnotes
Public Court Filings From Valerie Plame/CIA Leak Case
The New York Times And Judith Miller’s Testimony
Matt Cooper’s Source
Robert Novak’s Source
Patrick J. Fitzgerald – Office Of Special Counsel
UNITED STATES V. I. LEWIS LIBBY
UNITED STATES V. LAWRENCE ANTHONY FRANKLIN / STEVEN J. ROSEN / KEITH WEISSMAN
Plame Leak Timeline
Plamegate/AIPACgate
Feith, Office Of Special Plans, AIPAC and The American Turkish Council; July 31, 2005/August 1, 2005 **** Plame leak damaged a major CIA investigation linking senior Bush administration officials to WMD proliferation.
After Downing Street Coalition: Demand A Resolution Of Inquiry
WHIGgate
Iran-Syria Operations Group
James Bamford, Feith, Franklin, Office Of Special Plans, National Security Council and FBI Tapes
Libby: Bush Authorized Leaks of Classified Information
British MP George Galloway Before the Senate on Oil for Food
Downing Street Minutes Hearing, June 16 - DVD
Phase II Investigation
Abramoff – His Crimes And Connections To Public Figures
The Firing Of Abramoff Prosecutor Frederick A. Black
Abramoff Fraud Probe Leads To The Arrest Of Budget Official
Abramoff Timeline
The DeLay-Abramoff Money Trail
Abramoff, DeLay and Enron
DOJ Issues Ney A Subpoena
GOP SCANDAL SCORECARD
Lobbying & Ethics Reform, House Ethics Committee, Ney, “Duke” Cunningham, DeLay, Enron Trial, Halliburton, etc.
Senate Indian Affairs Committee Hearings on Abramoff and Indian Tribes
Secret Wiretapping Scandal
The Plight of National Security Whistleblowers
Senate Judiciary Committee Hearings on Domestic Spying
MAKE THE CALL: Demand An Independent Prosecutor To Investigate NSA Wiretaps
Senator Robert Byrd: Demand An Independent NSA Commission
Feingold’s Censure Resolution
Specter Prepping Bill To Sue Bush
72 Congress People Join Lawsuit To Stop Wiretaps
House Judiciary Committee Adopts Request for Illegal NSA Spying Documents; ACLU Welcomes Unexpected Move, Calls for Thorough Congressional Oversight
ACLU Raises Spying Issue at BellSouth Shareholder Meeting on AT&T Merger
Domestic Taps Smoking Gun? WorldCom Routed US-to-US Calls Through Canada
Conyers v. Bush Lawsuit
Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson Sue Cheney, Rove and Libby
Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) on PATRIOT II: Domestic Security Enhancement Act
Enron Scandal
Enron Watergate II
ENRONGATE
Enron Case: Lay And Skilling Found Guilty
Halliburton Watch
Halliburtongate
Halliburton Sold Iranian Oil Company Key Nuclear Reactor Components
Cheney And Secret Energy Meetings
GAO Reports on Energy Task Force
Whistleblowers Finger Vice President And 3 Congress Members For Mexico Influence Peddling
Cheney’s Energy Team Lied To Congress
Rumsfeld and Betchel
Harkengate
Carlyle and Dubai Deals
Portgate: BCCI II?
CIA Shake-Up
Attorney General Gonzales, Deputy Attorney General McNulty and FBI Director Mueller All Threaten to Resign Over Documents Obtained in William Jefferson Capitol Hill Raid
House Judiciary Committee Hearings on Jefferson Raid
Gannongate: How Did A Male Prostitute Get Into the White House Press Corps?
GOP Prostitution Rings and Pedophiles
Ohio’s Coingate
BLOOD IN THE WATER: Watergate II by Michael C. Ruppert
Chalabigate
Franklingate: The AIPAC Spy Case – Iran Contra II
Watergate II: Prostitutes and Poker Parties
“Duke” Cunningham and Defense Contractors
“Duke” Cunningham Wore A Wire
CIA Director Porter Goss Resigns
“Duke” Cunningham, Goss, Wilkes and Wade
Wilkes Worked For Business Firm Involved In 1980’s Drug Trafficking During Iran Contra
New Hampshire Phone Jamming Scheme
Haley Barbour Had Interests In Phone Jamming Firm
GAO Investigation Into Propaganda Segments
Pentagon Psyops Unit Provided Journalists With False Information On Threats Posed By Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi
Pentagon Roadmap to Propaganda Report Obtained Under FOIA
White House Shake-Up: Press Secretary Scott McClellan Resigns
FBI Reopens Inquiry On Niger Forgeries
Depleted Uranium in the Middle East
FBI Spy Probe: Leandro Aragoncillo and Michael Ray Aquino
Aragoncillo Pleads Guilty In Espionage Case
All Roads Lead Back To Cheney
Sibel Edmonds – Just A Citizen
FBI Whistleblower Sibel Edmonds Is Ready To Talk!
Edmonds v. DOJ
Judge Walton Presiding Over Libby Proceedings and Edmonds Case
National Security Whistleblowers Coalition
John Conyers’ The Constitution In Crisis with Introduction by Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson
Sibel Edmonds: Brewster Jennings, nukes in Turkey, Iran and 3 other countries.
FBI & 9/11 by Sibel Edmonds
Hastert and Turkey
Republican Congressman Alleges 9/11 Cover-up by Pentagon
Representative Curt Weldon (R-PA): ‘Able Danger’ Identified Atta 13 Times
Weldon seeks Defense testimony on al Qaeda
Weldon: Atta Papers Destroyed on Orders
OPERATION ABLE DANGER: The Sleeping Gun?
David Ray Griffin’s 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
Highly Sensitive Information on Misconduct In Government Offices, Some Enabling the Aircraft Hijackings of 9/11
FBI linguist won’t deny intelligence intercepts tied 911 drug money to U.S. election campaigns
DOJ Asked FBI Translator To Change Pre 9-11 Intercepts
9/11 Truth Movement
Connecting the Dots: S.B. Writer Peter Lance Dismisses 9/11 Commission Report in Cover-Up
Scarpa Jr. and Yousef
Yousef and Bojinka Two
FBI Agent Testifies Superiors Didn’t Purse Moussaoui Case
The Enron Pipeline Connection to 9/11
DIA pressures 9/11 whistleblower
Jack Abramoff’s Pakistani Connection
Abramoff, Kidan and the Gus Boulis Gangland Slaying
Abramoff and Able Danger: Confirmed: US Intel told “hands off money laundering”
Abramoff, Mohammad Atta and SunCruz Casinos
Abramoff’s Ties to Heroin, Mob and Casinos
Abramoff and Able danger: Why Atta's face was covered before 9/11 and Able danger dismantl
9/11 Commission’s Staff Rejected Early Report on Identification of Chief Hijacker
Sibel Edmonds’ Letter To 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean
Justice For 9/11
Scholars For 9/11 Truth
Independent 9/11 Investigation
9/11 Timeline
Patrick J. Fitzgerald’s Testimony Before 9/11 Commission
Zelikow And The 9/11 Commission
Man Behind the Mayor: Tripod II, OEM, FEMA and WTC 7
911: Cheney’s ‘Shoot down-order’
9/11: FAA Had 52 Warnings
Petition to the Senate to Investigate 9/11 Oddities
Senators Accuse Pentagon of Obstructing Inquiry on Sept. 11 Plot
Pentagon Nixes 9/11 Hearing Testimony
9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by the Pentagon
9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes
9/11 Panel Members Seek Inquiry On New Atta Report
Richard Clarke and Counter Terrorism Intelligence
Judicial Watch Files Lawsuit For Release of Pentagon Tapes
Judicial Watch Investigation Uncovers FBI Documents Concerning Bin Laden Family and Post-9/11 Flights
The Failure to Defend the Skies on 9/11 by Paul Thompson
FAA Managers Destroyed 9/11 Tape
New York Fire Department and 9/11 Tapes
9-11 Research: NORAD Stand-Down
World Trade Center EPA Case: Christine Todd Whitman Lied About the Air Being Safe to Breathe at Ground Zero
Was Wellstone Murdered?
Election Fraud Ohio: Conyers’ Letter to the FBI
Election Fraud News
Coalition Against Election Fraud
Investigate Election Fraud
Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell owns stocks in, and gave contracts to Diebold
SECURITIES FRAUD LITIGATION FILED AGAINST DIEBOLD!
BREAKING: Legal Proceedings Launched Against Diebold In Florida!
BREAKING: SEC Investigation Into Diebold Underway!
“Was the 2004 Election Stolen?” by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
RFK Jr. To Launch Fraud Suits Against E-Voting Companies
Demand An Independent Katrina Commission
Former FEMA Director Michael Brown’s Testimony Before the Senate Homeland Security Committee
Tape: Bush Received Warnings About the Levees
ACLU Torture FOIA: Seeking Truth and Accountability
Rumsfeld Subpoenaed Over Abu Ghraib
Gold Star Families For Peace: Camp Casey
The Impeachment of George W. Bush
WHEREAS: Citizens Appoint A Special Grand Jury To Investigate Allegations Of Torture
Operation Northwoods: CIA Planned Fake Terrorist Attacks To Get Support For War With Cuba
JFK Assassination Research Materials
Woodward Reveals Long-Kept Watergate Secret: FBI #2 Man W. Mark Felt Was “Deep Throat”
Times calls for new Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg
Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush by John W. Dean

I couldn't figure out how to insert the hyperlinks for those footnotes, but I think they pretty much speak for themselves.

[Tigress DEM]

23. Yes, Brain, I would like a cherry soda. How thoughtful of you.

Not now Pinky, we still have to take over the world and we are out of bicarbonate.
Aw, that's too bad.




You know though, these guys are scurrying like rats...

Cornered rats, dangerous rats, but ... if we just keep applying the pressure wherever the opportunity presents itself it has to eventually cause them to self destruct, don't you think?

[cascadiance]

49. Wow, lots of stuff there Indy_Liberal...

You've got the right idea that this we need to build out a strategy on all of those fronts. Though in my "perfect storm" you'd have the Dems impeach both Cheney and Bush at the same time so that Nancy Pelosi takes over and CLEANS house in the executive, not McCain, etc. Either McCain won't go after EVERY sitting person in the executive side for fear of alienating his party (and therefore leaving some criminal activity still operating there) and/or McCain will set himself up as a more viable candidate in 2008 when the Dems HAVE to have the presidency too.

Also, if you have Pelosi take charge in 2007, then you would have the option of looking to impeach SCOTUS judges earlier too if they are found to have contributed to the process of coverups and corruption too. If they get impeached, either she or the person in 2008 can name their replacements and hopefully restore balance to the SCOTUS sooner too.

Not to say that your scenario might happen as well. Just my "perfect storm" which would have Pelosi in charge instead.

On some specifics above:

Item #1: Don't forget that others that could get outed in the HookerGate/MZMGate, etc. scandal anchored by Cunningham would be Katherine Harris, Virgil Goode, and Duncan Hunter. Katherine Harris and Virgil Goode will get nailed as soon as the MZM/Brent Wilkes stuff is investigated more thoroughly and around the time when Wilkes finally gets indicted himself. Duncan Hunter worked alongside Cunningham on many issues here and in other places, and I might expect him getting in trouble too. Already heard a rumor from someone in the thick of things that he might be indicted soon (which might be one reason why there were so many Dems running in the primary here for his seat). I think they're holding off to go after Harris until they have grounds to lock her up in a mental ward someplace, so that in the conspiracy's minds noone will believe her "rants" of things she knows about the 2000 election debacle which would out Jeb and others there in Florida. I also wouldn't be surprised for Brian Bilbray to get touched by this too, after having received donations from both Cunningham and Wilkes, as well as trips to the Marianas on Abramoff's dime.

You've got a lot of the good cases here that will be looked into in 2007. I'd expect others as well, like:

1) the coverup of the cost of the Medicare Bill that the administration asked certain individuals to hide before congress.
2) the methods used in the "investigation" of Bill Clinton by Ken Starr documented by "The Hunting of a President".
3) John Negroponte's involvement with the School of the Americas and the death squads in South America. This might also rope in Henry Kissinger as well. Perhaps also Michael Hayden, Gonzales, etc. will be implicated in this investigation too, when it expands into Abu Ghraib abuses, along with more damning info on what went on in NSA. You'd probably get Porter Goss, Dennis Hastert, and others testifying against these folks, since that power play that Gonzales, Negroponte, etc. engineered to claim the right to searching congressional offices got folks like Hastert upset too. As a result, perhaps the School of the Americas will be shut down.
4) Investigation into the involvement of ChoicePoint in various efforts in orchestrating election fraud in Florida, Ohio, and other places here. Investigate their involvement in election fraud in Mexico too that might help Obrador force a new election and dismissing the current corrupted results.
5) As a part of the Edmonds and other whistleblowers coming forward on the AIPAC, Plame, and other investigations, force a reopening of the investigation of David Kelly's death, Judith Miller's complete knowledge of that event, and completely investigate whether Brewster Jennings was close to exposing a plot to plant WMD's in northern Iraq that might have happened had Brewster Jennings not been shut down by the Plamegate affair.
6) Investigate what pressure Bushco had on trying to accelerate the public airing of the latest terrorist plot before British Intelligence wanted to expose it, thereby losing the opportunity to arrest and contain more folks that were involved in that conspiracy. Related to this, look into who in the Bush administration, and for what reasons, might have leaked A.Q. Khan's name out prematurely, which might have lead to some escaping to further carry out the London subway bombing raids later.
7) Investigate further what sort of data mining that Bushco was wainting to do through Google, Yahoo, AT&T, etc. over and above the NSA wiretaps as well. Look into whether Google or other search engines were asked to have their search hits manipulated at certain times to censor information on sensitive events, etc. too. I personally suspect that Google was asked to censor certain hits like those having to do with Sibel Edmonds at the time that Larry Franklin was arrested when the AIPAC spy scandal became exposed publicly.

There's tons more that one could add to the list. Then it would get even more daunting for the average person to look at.

[hijinx87]

10. the bastards are gone in a couple of years anyway.

and the * administration will be a lame duck much sooner than
that.

it seems like it would be wasted effort, and if we do manage to
retake the house and senate, the * agenda would be thwarted anyway.

I can think of better uses of a dem controlled congress's time.

[Independent_Liberal]

11. Hey, don't rain in on our parade.

If we don't bring these fuckers to justice, how will that make us look to the rest of the world?

[hijinx87]

12. we would probably look like a country with health care reform

and an increased minimum wage, among other things.

an impeachment would paralyze the legislative agenda for
months and months and months. this would be the DEMOCRATIC
legislative agenda. it's just counterproductive in a big,
big way.

just to throw a guy out of office that is gone soon anyway?

[Independent_Liberal]

13. You don't understand. If you keep letting the Bushes get away with it...

...they'll keep coming back and keep getting worse.

Here's what somebody on this board (can't remember who it was) once said:

Reagan-Worse Than Nixon
Bush I-Worse Than Reagan
Bush II-Worse Than Bush I

Do you want to meet the next one?

I sure as hell don't.

The only way we'll be a democracy again is to hold this administration accountable. If not, then we may as well tear up the Constitution now and get it over with.

Here's a quote from www.worldcantwait.net

"The point is this: history is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US."

[hijinx87]

14. you are assuming it will be successful.

our majorities in both houses will be very slim. and not
all dems are what we would call "reliable". we wouldn't be
able to withstand any defections at all.

I'll say it again, if we win control of congress, an impeachment
would be a pointless endeavor, and will kill our legislative
agenda. this country is bleeding and needs immediate help.

* will be irrelevant after democrats take control of congress anyway.

charge him with crimes against humanity after he is out of office.

[Independent_Liberal]

15. Right, it IS bleeding and needs immediate help.

We have to go to the source of the problem first. That is the Bush/Cheney Neocon cabal.

Have you ever fixed a broken faucet before? Got to shut the main valve off before you go about fixing everything else.

Maybe it would be a waste of time to you, but other people around here don't see it that way.

[hijinx87]

16. do the math. we win in november, it will be the next year before

the new congress convenes. figure 6-8 months to get articles
of impeachment through the house, and probably as long to get
the historically slow moving senate to do anything.

how much shorter will we actually make the * administration?

and what could we be doing with that time instead?

[Independent_Liberal]

17. Like I said, if you don't want it, that's fine.

But other people do. It's something they're very passionate about. They want rid of this regime as soon as possible and they want to set the precedent that this type of behavior will NEVER be tolerated from a president ever again.

[hijinx87]

18. passion is trouble as often as not.

if we pursued impeachment, it would probably be smack in the
middle of the election cycle.

I don't know how that would break, either. it could be useful
for our candidate(s), or it could make it impossible to get our
message out.

my overall point is that I don't think people have fully thought
this through.

[ClassWarrior]

26. I've thought it through. It's the right thing to do. Let's do it.

Visualize IMPEACHMENT. Then DO something to make it happen.

NGU.

[hijinx87]

28. it will make us FEEL better, but would it actually accomplish anything?

I guess it depends on the size of our majority in congress
after november. if our majority is slim, then it would be
better to forego the whole effort, and concentrate on progressive
issues on our legislative agenda.

merely hating * just isn't going to improve the lives of our citizens.

[cascadiance]

34. You need to put some of these criminals AWAY!

Not just pardon them, as has been done in the past so many times, and those people keep showing up later in other people's administrations (Elliot Abrahams, John Negroponte, etc.). We need to put these people AWAY (and not just Bush and Cheney) so that we can stop any fascist overthrow from trying to percolate again in the future. In my mind, it's completely worth it.

Another thing you have to fix before you can substantively get many other things passed constructively is to push for national level public financing legislation. Once that's in place, hopefully we can get some real substantive legislation to deal with other real important issues like global warming, social security, outsourcing, education, bankruptcy protection, etc. The other thing equally important in terms of timing is to get the Iraq War ended too and stop the financial and diplomatic bleeding there too.

In order for us to get any kind of diplomatic respect in the future on a global level, we need to THROW Bush and this administration OUT as soon as possible. We will get NO help from other countries if they are in power. And for things like helping resolve our foreign debt, etc. we are going to NEED their help. One of the quickest ways we could get them to help us and restore our name with them would be to turn some of these folks like Rummsfeld, Bush, Cheney, etc. over to the Hague for war crimes. I'm not sure that we'd go that far, even with a majority in both the Senate and the House, but that would help us repair our global image more quickly. I think one thing that might make that work is that there would be no way they would be given death sentences now, given European Union's not having death sentences like they would have had back after WWII.

[ClassWarrior]

36. I don't "hate" anyone. And likely it'll make us all feel worse.

But it's the right thing to do.

Please don't distort my words for your own personal agenda.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

37. "Make us feel better??" LOL... Who hasn't thought this through??

:eyes:

NGU.

[agentkgb]

46. We want them all out

We're not trying to fix the republican majority, we're trying to destroy it. It doesn't matter what order we go, it just has to work. Cheney's gone soon, so why focus on him?

[ClassWarrior]

22. Just putting IMPEACHMENT on the table is a success.

Doesn't matter if we succeed in removing him/them. The public will learn what these criminals have been doing to their nation.

Besides, it's the right thing to do.

Visualize IMPEACHMENT. Then DO something to make it happen.

NGU.

[Tigress DEM]

19. I'm all for it.

So exactly what impeachable offence do we have "evidence" on for Chenney?

I know he's guilty as sin, but do we have the goods to send him packing?

[Greyhound]

20. An alternative to a divisive, distracting, paralyzing partisan fight to

impeachment that is, I believe, quite doable should the will exist.

A resolution stating that there is sufficient evidence to support criminal indictment of the whole cabal, including the rats that have already left the ship, but that we as a nation "are too close to the issue" to objectively try the case and therefore it shall be conferred to the International Court of Justice at The Hague.

We get to watch them squirm for years on the receiving end of a system they have no control over, or better yet, they become international outlaws and have to live out their days in Saudi Arabia or some other "friendly" nation, and have to face the shame and outrage of the world over what they've done. Add to this, the incredible international goodwill that the country would get, making it much easier to solve the enormous problems we will face in the coming years.

What do you think?

[Tigress DEM]

21. 'Cept Bush let our subscription to the ICC expire.

So, they could be tried and convicted maybe if 20 million citizens wrote out impassioned letters begging them to try them in absentia, but the crooks would only be caught if they went to a country with enough balls to wrap them up and ship them to the Hague.

[Greyhound]

24. But couldn't the Dems, assuming they are in control, re-join the ICC?

I'm just concerned that an impeachment will be an all consuming circus for at least a year, probably more, nothing else will be done, and we just don't have the time. The most heinous of the criminal cabal's legislation starts to take effect this year and will only get worse over the next six years.

I don't think many people realize just how deep the shit we're in is.

[pnwmom]

41. I think the Dems would be pilloried by the press and most of

middle America for voluntarily giving up America's sovereignty to a world court. That could be the end for us as a viable party. (Assuming we are still viable.)

[Greyhound]

44. And yet there is nothing about "surrendering our sovereignty" through

the myriad trade agreements we have entered into (GATT, NAFTA, etc.) that specifically state that our national laws are inferior to those agreements. That's Why we cannot require Mexican companies to make their trucks that are coming across the border safe (they are frequently riding on bald tires, defective brakes, no emergency brakes or mirrors, etc.) and enforce emissions requirements, etc.

If the Democrats had the will (they don't), this could easily be spun into a great victory for "The American People" and Democratic Representatives "taking care of the people's business" and undoing the illegal, immoral, theft of national assets.

Speaking of which, what candidates have even hinted that, if elected, they will fight to withdraw from these one-sided agreements?

[pnwmom]

47. I'm not in favor of those agreements, either. But I think most average

people don't know that much about the details. The average person WOULD notice, though, if we were suddenly shamed as defendants before the World Court.

And I think it would backfire on us, if we were the ones that tossed Bush to the wolves.

[Greyhound]

51. You may well be right, in so far as our domestic press goes,

but the goodwill it would generate internationally would be awesome, it might even get us back to the place we were right after 9/11.

The politicians might pay the price in the next cycle, but sacrifices are sometimes required from us, after all they have no problem asking our children to sacrifice for their agendas.

Also the shame would not be "ours" in the sense of the American People, only those that perpetrated and supported the crimes committed. I think our stock, internationally, would rise to levels not seen since the end of WWII.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just an a amerikan with a long memory and a pretty good knowledge of history.

We have been betrayed by our "leaders" and worse, we don't seem to give a shit.

[Yellowcake]

27. "An impeachment that COULD work."

No, it could not, under any capacity. Though I wish it could, it's not happening. Focus on November.

[cascadiance]

35. I think now you focus on November, this is correct...

But you do not exclude the option of impeachment after the new congress takes power. You have more investigations that would turn up more evidence, and at that time, then a majority of Americans could support impeaching these bums when the truth is out.

First and foremost now though, the priority is to do WHATEVER possible to ensure that our votes are counted to get us a majority in congress in November. Though I'd like to start impeachment proceedings now if possible, I also recognize that now it's a fruitless exercise, other than continue to expose the criminal acts as much as possible when they come to light between now and then, so that we can build up a list of things in 2007 to address if and when we decide to proceed with impeachment then.

[Divine Discontent]

48. remember, remember...

ALL of november....

we will overcome. I can feel it. I had doubts about Kerry winning, even though I thought he was awesome and did his best at the end (damn osama tape), but this time, I just feel the country, and all the people I meet are so SICK of republican shit, and it was so close last time, that the damage they've done will result in us winning 1 if not 2 houses of congress.


here's a FUNNY video!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2790162

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lisainmilo]

50. S.F. HAS IMPEACHMENT ON THE BALLOT FOR NOV. What about your city?

San Francisco CA, has successfully put impeachment on the ballots for this NOV. If you truly want impeachment you can get involved. Here are some links.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_david_sw_060808_san_francisco_puts_i.htm


to simply send a post card to congress: www.johnlisainmilo.com

Though I represent johnlisainmilo, I suggest you go to opednews because his link directly sends your message to local newspapers and your representatives. You can go to both sites if you wish to send 1 message hard mail and the other via email.


Lisa :dem:

[saberjet22]

52. impeach the bastard

Impeachment is too good for the son of a bitch. He should be drawn and quartered, and then barbecued on a mesquite fire in fucking Crawford Texas. The hogs wouldn't even touch it. I am overwhelmed with disgust at the fact that the assholes who populate this country elected him TWICE!!! Just venting, however don not ignore as I mean every word. I absolutely loath the man, and the system that produced him, popping him out like a turd at the culmination of the digestive tract know as the Republican party. ugh.

[Hawkowl]

54. Impeach & Imprison

There must be consequences to a criminal president. He simply can not be allowed to get away with it.

In my view, because Nixon did not serve time for his criminal actions, the neo-cons, i.e; Cheney & Rumsfeld, in the Nixon administration, saw no downside to raping this country and murdering its citizens. The only way to make sociopaths like the neo-cons adhere to the law, is through fear of criminal prosecution and imprisonment. A slap on the wrist and sweeping it under the rug "for the good of the country" will send our democracy the way of ancient Rome, Greece and the dodo.

We the people must DEMAND, accountability, responsibility and justice! It infuriates me to see DLC (Dumb-ass Lieberman Caucus) supporters shushing up our RIGHTEOUS ANGER!