Will we ALLOW Dean to stop? Are we sending him a message today?

[Skip Intro]

ON EDIT: This is mainly for dean supporters and well wishers. Dean speaks for a lot of people, and evidently a lot of people want him to continue to speak for them/us. If all you have to say is "go away," please find another thread to say that in, or start your own.

----------------------------------

Even if WI doesn't go the way we hope, will we allow him to call it a day?

Today he put out a call to raise $700,000 by Sunday. It is around 9:30pm now, and he/WE are within about $50,000 of meeting that. IN ONE DAY! Dean has to be blown away by the response.

What does that say? Are we, Dean supporters and well wishers, sending Dean a message? Stay in it - you speak for us. We'll support you reguardless.

The amount of money raised today is phenomenal. Another mold smashed. Conventional wisdom exposed as a myth yet again. Given this, why the hell should we play by "their" rules? I'm feeling tonight that we'll leave when we're damn good and ready to leave, if at all.

I propose, if the time comes for Dean to address leaving the race, that he put it to a vote of his supporters. If we vote he continues, and pledge to do all we can to see that he can continue, then he should continue.

This may seem radical or be spun as "hurtful to the party" (yawn), but something is going on tonight. Its more than enthusiasm, imho. There is a message being sent to the media, the establishment, and to the Doctor himself. I wonder what he's thinking about what is happening tonight.

Agree? Disagree? Other?

[nankerphelge]

1. Agree

100%

[bitchkitty]

2. I don't want him to drop out,

even if he doesn't come in first - I sent my weekly donation already but am about to double it. It's pathetically small but it's all I've got, and I want to give everything I can to Howard!

[Darranar]

3. So, let me get this straight...

money is more important then the will of the voting populace, as expressed in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, North Dakota, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arizona, Missouri, and Delaware?

[Skip Intro]

4. No, no and no

The convention exists for a reason. It is not a coronation.

[Darranar]

10. How not?

Dean hasn't been doing very well in the primaries; he has won no states, and has rarely succeeded in getting even a second place finish. In South Carolina, he lost to Sharpton, of all people.

Isn't the premise of this thread that despite all this, Dean should continue running, because he has acquired so much campaign funds? Is that all that matters, now?

If I'm wrong here, please say so, and explain to me exactly how I am.

[Skip Intro]

15. The donations represent SUPPORT from the PEOPLE

Its a concept that is all but unheard of, I know, so I don't blame you for missing the point.

:D

[joshcryer]

20. Yeah, but winning isn't about having the most actual supporters.

Unfortunately. :(

Winning is about having the best media, and the best look, and basically winning over the mindless masses.

Yes, I agree with you though. The Dean campaign is undoubtedly, completely, and utterly, the largest individually supported (there is a distinct difference between supporting in the polls, and supporting in the pocket; the latter requires vested interest, and that's the kind of support I'm talking about here) campiagn, perhaps in the history of US politics.

[Darranar]

26. So why isn't this support turning into success in the primaries?

[joshcryer]

17. I think you're wrong on the basis that Dean's media penetration...

...has been minimal at best. He needs to be more visible, and that costs money. They simply spent too much money early on to get this thing to work, and they did it all wrong.

The primary reason Dean was 'leading' is precisely because he was getting a lot of free publicity over the summer. This may be deserved or it may not be (frankly, due to the Dean campaigns grassroot efforts, I do think it was deserved), but it certainly had an effect on the overall image.

[Darranar]

30. If Dean picks up, I will reconsider my analysis.

[dorktv]

19. okay

You want to bash Dean, fine...I will give you my reasons he should stay in:
Even with only 5 million (more now) in the bank, he still has the money to continue to at least Super Tuesday and so should do so.
The field still needs to be cleared out some. Lieberman's dorpping has helped. Dean can easily beat any of the others in a one on one match but that is going to take a lot more time. At least until Super Tuesday.
Dean has people who are very committed and we are learning more with each primary. One of the first problems was that Dean IS getting people in who have never done this before and sometimes they do not do as well as those who have.
Several bits of info will come out soon. One is just who funded the Osama ad against Dean, and Kerry better not be behind it because that will do a massive amount of damage.

[mitchum]

31. nor is it a putsch

despite the bitter pipedreams of some

[maryallen]

11. 10 % of the American public has voted ...

Give the rest of us a chance to vote.

Stay in Dean, Clark, Edwards, Kerry ... all of you.

Personally, I find some of the polls hard to believe. I understand that Kerry is the front-runner, but a 40-50% share of the vote in several states? I just don't see it.

[HFishbine]

12. At this point yes

Considering that only 10% of the population has voted and that Kerry has only 12% of the delegates needed for the nomination to Dean's 6%.

[MODemocrat]

14. 90% o f the voters have not voted yet

So what's your hurry? Apparently your candidate has plenty of money, at his beck and call, so what's so different with Dean's supporters sending money to their favorite candidate? We don't like Kerry as much as we like Dean, give us a break!
:crazy: :argh: :shrug:

[Darranar]

25. I don't support John Kerry...

you can rest assured that Dennis Kucinich does NOT have plenty of money at his beck and call.

[Darranar]

28. Trends are trends...

the vast majority of the American populace doesn't vote in the polls done by the media, but they are still fairly accurate.

[madfloridian]

16. 41 states have had no input. Very few delegates are chosen.

I belong to one of the 41 states with no input. I want a chance to have my vote count this time so I don't have to be mad anymore.

[Samantha]

23. Yes, it is

Because two days ago, John Kerry had less than one-third of the delegates he needed to win the nomination and something like 7 percent of the eligible voters had voted as of that date. The StopDean element persistent in this campaign is attempting to brainwash the American voters into thinking Kerry has sewn up the nomination and cannot be stopped -- join a winner - vote Kerry.

The competition is not yet over. Maryland has not yet voted. I currently live in Maryland, and I expect the DLC and the Clinton element, the corporate news media, and the ego of John Kerry to allow at least a substantial portion of the Democratic base TO VOTE before it castigates all non-DLC candidates. In other words, I am not being so bold as to ask the Democratic leadership to COUNT ALL VOTES, just let most of us cast a ballot ....

In that regard, money IS more important than the victories won in the nine states you mentioned since it is a necessary fuel to keep the campaign of Howard Dean running until it reaches its proper, natural conclusion.

[Edwards4President]

27. This is a very different argument than many Dean supporters were making

just a few weeks ago.

I distinctly recall numerous posts in which Dean supporters insisted that their candidate had the most endorsements and the most money and would wrap up the nomination with Iowa, NH and South Carolina. He himself even said that if he won Iowa, it would be difficult to stop him. When people pointed out that Dean was not as popular with African Americans as he claimed, they were told that he would not only win SC but would carry the black vote. None of this has panned out.

I also recall seeing supporters of other candidates demand that Kucinich, Sharpton, Moseley-Braun get out of the race because they didn't have much hope of winning any of the early primaries.

The bottom line is that Dean has not measured up to the hype. If he doesn't start winning some primaries, soon and by convincing margins (30-30 Clark/Edwards squeakers won't help), he really should reassess his option.

[Samantha]

32. I have made no commitment to the current slate of candidates

so obviously I cannot answer for the Dean proponents.

As far as Dean reassessing his options, I hope he decides to drop out and run as a Third Party. Yes, I have heard him say many times he will support the Democratic candidate, whoever that might be. In that regard, he's a better man than I. I have said for months I will not vote for anyone for president who cast a yes vote to the Iraq resolution, and I stand by that statement.

[Edwards4President]

34. Wouldn't running as a third party candidate just make him another Nader?

He said he would support the Democratic nominee, whoever it is. If he were to run as a third party candidate rather than work to help the person chosen by a majority of Democratic primary voters beat George Bush, it would send the message that this race is just a glorified ego trip.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

5. Money has not worked so far

0 for 9. This is his last shot, and I doubt he'll come through.

Like he said. Win Wisconsin or it is over.

[pacifictiger]

13. it is not so much the man as his message

that is important, and he is the only one who has had the courage to stand firm from the beginning - that his message was in part co-opted by the others speaks volumes. I contributed so his voice and common sense can continue to be heard. A lone voice in the wilderness of political "conventional wisdom" types and media manipulation. They built him up, they tore him down, because he actually is serious about shaking up the business as usual tenor of government. He got a hatchet job done on him and I'm sure most that gave recognize that and are trying to at least even that handicap for we, the people.

[lastknowngood]

6. If he decides to stop running for pres I want him to continue head

running our community. If we gain strength money and people to our cause when the convention comes they will have to address our needs or we can just use our power and money to work on local candidates and show the DNC what people power means.

[LuminousX]

7. He needs to produce some results

But if he says that he is pulling from the race and will pursue a different goal that he needs my support and help for, I'm there for him.

The only way he can let me down is if he totally disappears from the national stage.

[joshcryer]

8. I don't think we're sending him a message.

I think we're sending the whole fucking country a message.

[mopinko]

35. and the whore media

that so many here have decried when their candidate was "gored", and cheered when the other guy got it.
i sent $50 this morning, and sent an e-mail to friends and relatives in wisconsin.

[MercutioATC]

9. I don't think he'll stop unless we give up on him. (yeah, THAT'LL happen)

:eyes:

He's in this as long as WE say he is. All the way to the convention, is what I'm thinking.

[Straight Shooter]

18. What is Dr. Dean thinking?

I hope his mind is peaceful tonight, and he feels re-energized.

[cprise]

21. Perhaps money won't work for election PR

...if it wasn't given to you by the media and other corps to begin with.

You know, kind of like a political meal-ticket: Media/corps say "here is your campaign contribution" as a kind of free-pass to use our services, and the candidate responds in kind with advertising purchases. The money stays "in the family" and nothing smells unusual to them.

So far, the media has wrinkled their nose at the considerable amount of funds raised by the masses in this campaign season. The directors and anchors and pundits nail our guys on minute details and even reject attempted ad-time purchases. Our money must be dirty and lack that certain air of Channel No. 5.

Our money isn't corporate, and doesn't smell presidential.

[Skip Intro]

22. $673,954.28 in less than 24 hours. Average donation is $70.00 -

Yeah, I'd say there's a message there.

:D

[madfloridian]

24. Doggone those upstart Dean supporters!

:7

That is what our local party thinks of us, BTW. One person even used the word.

[Darranar]

29. Good for the Dean supporters!

:toast:

[markus]

33. $693,103.76 / 9,886 = $70 @ (yes I remember what that used to mean)

The fat lady has her Visa out and she doesn't feel like singing until we get our country back.