Kerry:"I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts decision"

[w4rma]

Kerry: "I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts court's decision."
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=4294456
(edited to fix link)

This is the position of the current Democratic frontrunner. Who thinks that this position will bring folks together? I don't.


compare with Dean's response:
"I believe firmly that we must do everything in our power to assure that all citizens of the United States are afforded equal rights under the law... Today's decision by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court represents a different approach to the same goal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=275414

[lastknowngood]

1. What a courageous liberal

<sarcasm off>

[David Dunham]

That's the only position that stands a chance of winning in GE v. Bush

It's the same position of Edwards.

[Cannikin]

2. And there goes one less vote for Kerry....

He can kiss my faggot ass!

[styersc]

81. And one more vote for Bush.

That will make everything better.

[harrison]

3. Republicans are forever winning on "wedge" issues. This is one

of them. Kerry has to say this. Unless, you want another four years of Bush.

[ulysses]

6. the way to be beaten on a wedge issue

is to give in to it.

[corporatewhore]

9. well abortion is controversial should he be opposed to abortion

[HFishbine]

11. Ooooh! The republican "wedge issue" boogey man

How about a little backbone? How about just ONE principled stand this election? How about the fact that the coveted independents disagree with the republicans?

Finally, in a fascinating result that speaks to the difficulties the GOP may have using gay marriage as a wedge issue, while voters overall say they do not support a law allowing same sex civil unions (53 percent to 40 percent), independents narrowly support such a law (49 percent to 43 percent).

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9892

[Gman]

17. The principle stand that matters this year most

is getting rid of Bush.

Some people just don't get it.

[HFishbine]

40. No, you're right

Some people don't get it. Here's what they are missing.

If we "win," and the democratic party comes to be defined as one that supports pre-emptive war; one that is unwilling to extend constitutional protections to all people; one that is no less influenced by corporate interests, then that would be a greater tragedy than four more years of Bush.

[Gman]

102. I'm sorry but

that's just simply not going to happen. That's a stretch.

[IndianaGreen]

103. That's only a personnel change!

We want a change in policies, and Kerry offers only a change in personnel.

[Virgil]

65. Nothing like being your own man.

People have rights. Here again, Dennis Kucinich admits the obvious.

[janx]

82. So the way to beat Bush is to be like him?

I think not.

[ulysses]

4. sad and obnoxious.

He's trying to run from the "NE Liberal" tag and apologize for his DOMA vote. Like it'll do him any good in the Rove grinder.

[Democrats unite]

5. Well heres another good reason to kick him out of the primary!

[corporatewhore]

7. what if he said

"I oppose multi racial marriage and disagree with blacks and whites marrying" SAME FUCKING DIFFERENCE!!!!!!

[movonne]

8. Once he is in he could change his vote...Bush won't that is for sure

[Closer]

10. Kerry will never

get my vote.

And with this statement, that's assured.

[Gman]

12. Clinton took a similar approach to such things in '92

during the campaign, then in January 93 promptly instituted "don't ask-don't tell".

[roughsatori]

22. Clinton Signed the DOMA

It was a disgrace and I will not put up with Democratic cowardice ANYMORE. Kerry just lost my vote.

[blm]

34. Vote Kucinich, he's the only one for gay marriage.

All the others have the same position for civil unions and opposed to gay marriage.

[roughsatori]

38. That is one of many reasons why I support Kucinich

he is the only reason I have not changed to the Green party this year.

[Alopenia]

13. Kerry had to take this stand

or get butchered in the polls. I'm sorry. But now that he's a lock for the nomination, he is wise to stake out a more middle-of-the-road view. He has to do this to win the presidency.

[ulysses]

15. no he doesn't.

[Terwilliger]

19. maybe it's me

doesn't someone who suggests that Kerry must side with one group or another sound like a person who wants the issue to become a wedge?

[ulysses]

32. no, not just you, Ter.

:hi:

[Cascadian]

94. Tell that to me on November 3rd.

We'll see if the middle of the road act works for the Democrats.


John

[Duncan Grant]

14. Does Fannie Lou Hamer mean anything to you?

Doesn't anyone have the courage of their convictions anymore (besides reich-wing fundamentalists)?

Ok John, whatever you say. Just explain to me why I should give money and mobilize for the democratic candidate? Let me get this straight (if you'll pardon the expression), I should help you and your party (faithfully for over 20 years now) while you and your party leave me behind? :wtf:

I am sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. -Fannie Lou Hamer

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Here's his actual statement

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, said in his own statement: "I believe and have fought for the principle that we should protect the fundamental rights of gay and lesbian couples — from inheritance to health benefits. I believe the right answer is civil unions. I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts Court's decision."

[Duncan Grant]

20. Thanks! And I still want him to lead on this issue, NOT cave.

We're splitting hairs here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. To answer you and Terwilliger, here is my response

He is NOT caving. When he made the statement he said he supported civil unions which are legally binding contracts tantamount to marriage which is mostly a religious ceremony.

His position is comparable to your favorite candidate and completely in line with HIS position in the matter so I fail to see how it is wrong if Kerry states it and bold if someone else states it and for the record, he has been defending GAY right since the 80's and authored one of the first anti-discrimination laws against gays in the workplace.

If he says he is FOR giving you ALL the rights inherent in a marriage without using a term that is a religious BUZZ WORD, how is that chicken?

How is it any different than any of the other candidates' comments in the matter?

Has one already said, "When I become president the first thing I will do is make GAY MARRIAGE legal?"


edited to reflect that Kucinich and Sharpton have but none of the frontrunners.

[Duncan Grant]

53. Fair assessment, and I'm disappointed with all the candidates on this.

I've been waiting patiently for anyone in the pack to clearly call this "gay marriage/civil unions" hairsplitting for what it is; hairsplitting. Just my opinion - doesn't mean I speak for others or that I hold the high ground here.

I don't think Senator Kerry is a chicken and acknowledge his efforts on "my" behalf. Perhaps this has more to do with my desire to see a candidate call the right on this issue once and for all. I believe that it's time to stand up to these ideologues and confront them for what they are.

Also, I'm not a single issue voter (but I'm getting there), I do want to see leadership on this issue not a deft political game of dodge ball.

Once again, fair assessment NSMA...I just hunger for an uncompromising leader on this issue.

[Terwilliger]

55. hahah!

So, Kucinich and Sharpton have, but they're not "front runners"

That means that matters of civil rights are to be determined by the whims and musings of people who are frightened into thinking a certain way?

If everybody thought slavery was a good idea again, would Kerry equivocate and say "Well, it's just indentured servitude, really"??

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

57. Why not just check his vote on anti-discrimination legislation?

I don't give a fuck what it's called if all the rights inferred upon one group are inferred upon me.

Guess semantics has never been a big deal to me.

Kerry was acting on gay rights issues before ANY of the other candidates gave a flying fuck about them and that IS A FACT!

[Terwilliger]

61. well, that's good nsma...it really is

maybe I just expect more from somebody you want me to vote for

Kerry should "stand up" like all Dems should.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

63. He was one of the first in the nation to stand up on gay rights

So everybody else followed HIS lead...there's just a very short legislative memory on DU.

[Terwilliger]

23. thanks for the context

so what do you think about what he said?

[Closer]

24. Is that supposed

to make him look better? :shrug:

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

50. Read Dean's statement again. He did not say he is for

gay marriage. His position has always been for civil unions. Dean's and Kerry's positions are the same.

[Bonobo]

28. Ouch! Still not good enough for me.

Honestly, how can you oppose gay marriage!?

Can anyone here stand up and say that they also opposed gay marriage?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. Which candidate(s) has a position that is good enough for you?

Kucinich and (I think) Sharpton are in favor of gay marriage. All the other candidates have the exact same position as Kerry.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Bonobo]

46. Unfortunately, no one I think. So sad...

BTW, do you agree, at least, that it was wrong for Kerry to say he opposes Gay Marriage? An honest confession would go far in my book.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

56. Clark doesn't support gay marriage either

He supports civil unions just like Dean, Kerry, Edwards.

[54anickel]

78. Yes, I can.

I am, and have been for many years, against the term marriage being used at all by the states. It is a religious term that was "borrowed" for what in reality is a civil contract.

If I wanted to get married in the church, before God (or whatever diety) I need to get a state marriage license (for the majority of churches). Suppose I want to get married in the religious sense only, not the civil sense for whatever legal reasons I may have? I would need to find a pretty liberal church to do that in.

But I can get "married" in the civil courts without having to do the church deal. They are using one term for two completely different things.

JMHO, I do not mean to offend anyone.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. READ THIS: What Kerry really said

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, said in his own statement: "I believe and have fought for the principle that we should protect the fundamental rights of gay and lesbian couples - from inheritance to health benefits. I believe the right answer is civil unions. I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts Court's decision."

[mikehiggins]

109. Come on. He was crossing his fingers behind his back when he

said that. You know JK would never make a straight out announcement like that unless there were forty-two cutouts built in to allow everyone to read into it whatever makes him look better.

So this means he really does support Gay Marriage, or perhaps Bush's Mars program. It isn't really clear right now.

However, whatever he said, its pretty certain that once the polls come out with what will get the most votes, that'll be what he really meant.

[Red State Rebel]

29. I agree with you, I'm very disappointed. I was hoping he would stand

on principal on this. If he can't be counted on for this issue, can he be counted on for anything?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

68. if you don't vote for Kerry, you are voting for Bush! ABB!

Don't be a single issue voter. Compromise is necessary. Bush will be worse.

Black people still don't get equal treatment under the law, in the economy, in the workplace, or society in general. They have to vote for Kerry. Straight white males whose fathers had high paying union jobs work at Walmart for $6.50 an hour now, they still have to vote for Kerry. Women still get paid less than men, they will vote for Kerry. And gay couples can't fly to Mass and get married and expect Louisiana to accept it, allow them to adopt children, and put Heather had Two Mommies in elementary schools. And they still have to vote for Kerry.

Everyone else had to take a backseat to beating Bush, and so will the LGBT community.

[the skeptic]

99. Conviction?

It's easier to dance on the head of a pin that to have a politician that has any kind of convictions on any issue. They just don't make 'em like they used to.

Name 5 democratic politicians who you can classify as "conviction" politicians, those who, on controversial issues like gay marriage take a clear stand and STICK WITH IT, knowing that it may make for bad politics but is the right thing to do.

I can't think of 5, especially in the senate.

[roughsatori]

16. I NOW refuse to vote for him and will OPPOSE him NT

[Virgil]

69. I will write in a name myself before voting for Kerry

With my vote I will tell the Democratic Party I will not rubber stamp the status quo guy that went along for 19 years to get to this point. He will not even sponsor the bill requiring a paper trail on the electonic voting machines. Of course, no Senator is. 110 members of the House support the bill, but it seems the Senate had it the way they wrote it when they funded the new "standards" that would allow what had never been done- remove the paper trail.

I am going to vote, but not Kerry and of course not Bush.

[Bonobo]

21. Link does not work. Did Kerry really say that?

[Terwilliger]

27. read post #18

[blm]

25. Dean is not FOR gay marriage either. His wording is typical for him.

btw....Kerry's never been for gay marriage because it adds to the religio/civil conflict involved.

Marriage as a religious ceremony is just too ingrained into our culture at this time.

Maybe if all marriages had to be performed civilly with religious ceremonies added as one wished, things could be different. I dunno.

[HFishbine]

44. FLASH FORWARD

PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE:

MODERATOR: Where do you stand on gay marriage Mr. Bush?

BUSH: I'm agin' it.

MODERATOR: Mr. Kerry?

KERRY: Dr. Dean is not for gay marriage either.

---------

These "But Dean..." defenses of Kerry are tiresome.

[blm]

67. I'm here to keep the score straight...thaz all folks.

And while there is a primary goin' on, there will always be a "score" to keep straight, eh?

[IndianaGreen]

104. Kerry was against Biden-Lugar

I thought I might mention the Biden-Lugar mantra...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. Why don't you try posting a valid liink?

Posting a bogus link is a good way to hide the other things Kerry said along with the eleven words you picked out.

[INTELBYTES]

30. What wass massachusetts thinking...

...bringing up this hot potato issue during the election year? They had to know how divisive it would be. The Dems will lose votes with the 66% percent that believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman. It was just bad timing on their part making me wonder what their motive was.

[HFishbine]

47. Massachusettes didn't "bring it up"

People who are fighting to have the same rights as you and me turned to the protectors of the Constitution* in order to address a gross inequity.

(* Techincally, the MA constitution)

[treefrogjohn]

31. I look on this as declawing Rove

The repubs are latching onto this as an issue they can use to inflame emotions and turn independents towards Bush. By this simple action, Kerry removes it from Rove's toolbox. Even though I believe strongly that same-sex marriage is OK and inevitable (hell, I was walking down Castro St just last night), I firmly believe that we must focus on Job One, ie. getting Bush out of there. We will then at least have a move level playing field for working our pet issues.

[QuidditchFan]

45. I unfortunately and regrettably agree with you...

I am experiencing a high level of cognitive dissonance with this one, but...

Kerry can only implement his vision for America if he actually beats Bush in the GE. This is EXACTLY why I would never want to be a politician myself. In my heart, I don't believe that Kerry actually opposes gay marriage, but this was the minimum that he could have said to navigate through this issue and not alienate too many voters.

Do I like it? No. Is it reality? Yes.

George Stephonopolous talks a lot about this cognitive dissonance in his book "All Too Human." He had to keep telling himself that, in spite of Clinton's embarassing lies about the Lewinsky affair, he had to back Clinton because there was a bigger cause that he was trying to affect.

[HFishbine]

51. That argument

however gutless, isn't even supoprted by the facts:

Finally, in a fascinating result that speaks to the difficulties the GOP may have using gay marriage as a wedge issue, while voters overall say they do not support a law allowing same sex civil unions (53 percent to 40 percent), independents narrowly support such a law (49 percent to 43 percent).

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9892

[girl gone mad]

37. Just wait until..

the polls say most people support gay marriage. Then Kerry will be for equal rights.

[Democrats unite]

39. I just became ABK

[DoctorBombay]

89. You should probably change your handle in that case n/t

[funky_bug]

41. Dang! Thanks a lot...now I have to find another reason...

I told my hubby the other day that I could not think of one single reason to work for Kerry if he gets the nod. I won't even vote for him, just vote against Bush (no, not third party... I'll bubble the strongest opponent come GE). Then I started thinking about the Defense of Marriage bullshit, and I called my hubby up and said, "I got it. I just thought of ONE GOOD REASON to work hard for Kerry."

Now I gotta come up with another reason, 'cause Kerry ain't gonna do a damn thing when it comes to the rights of my gay friends.

[blm]

70. His position is the same as the others except Kucinich.

May I remind you that Kerry was the FIRST Senator to put forth anti-dicrimination of gays legislation in 1985. He pushed for gays to be allowed to serve openly in the military. He helped draft the Hate Crimes bill and voted against DOMA and called it "gay bashing in the Senate"...please read his full record and don't jump to conclusions based on a quote not giving the full context of what he said.

[JohnKleeb]

73. and Sharpton blm

Seriously, I think Kerry is totally wrong on this but hes not unique on this issue.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

42. Your quote is misleading and your link doesn't work

Kerry went further to say he DOES support civil unions.

Kerry has always supported equal rights for GLBT and has sponsored hate crimes legislation as well. Here are a few excerpts on his positions:


Preventing Hate Crimes
John Kerry is an original cosponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention bill, which would extend federal jurisdiction over serious, violent hate crimes. These would include crimes motivated by sexual orientation. Hate crimes rose a disturbing 3.5% from 1999 to 2000.

Protecting Gay and Lesbian Families
John Kerry believes that same-sex couples should be granted rights, including access to pensions, health insurance, family medical leave, bereavement leave, hospital visitation, survivor benefits, and other basic legal protections that all families and children need. He has supported legislation to provide domestic partners of federal employees the benefits available to spouses of federal employees. He was one of 14 Senators -- and the only one up for reelection in 1996 -- to oppose the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

Lifting the Ban on Gays in the Military
John Kerry opposed the Clinton Administration’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Policy” He was one of a few senators to testify before the Senate Armed Services Committee and call on the President to rescind the ban on gay and lesbian service members.


Support for Civil Unions
John Kerry supports same-sex civil unions so that gay couples can benefit from the the health benefits, inheritance rights, or Social Security survivor benefits guaranteed for heterosexual couples.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/glbt/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. Now who is parsing words?

Dean has supported civil unions all along, the same thing that Kerry said PRIOR to the sentence that you headed this thread with...now Dean calls the courts' granting of marriage rights a "different approach to the same goal"

WHO'S SPINNING NOW????

Kerry's quote
Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, said in his own statement: "I believe and have fought for the principle that we should protect the fundamental rights of gay and lesbian couples — from inheritance to health benefits. I believe the right answer is civil unions. I oppose gay marriage and disagree with the Massachusetts Court's decision

[Closer]

49. Funny how

an openly gay woman like yourself supports a candidate who doesn't believe in equal rights for you.


Actually, funny's not the word. Sad is.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

52. You obviously didn't read his statement

or intentionally choose to ignore it. Kerry's position has always been for equal rights for GLBT's

[ulysses]

54. then why oppose marriage?

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

58. Marriage is being used in the religious sense.

ALL of the major candidates have the same position on this. Clark, Kerry, Dean, and Edwards ALL support civil unions and NOT gay marriage.

Sharpton and Kucinich are the only ones who support gay marriage.

[JohnKleeb]

59. uly I dont like his positon on this a damn bit honest

But why are supporters of a man who opposes this idea attacking Kerry over it. If it really meant anything they would be suppporting DK or Sharpton but alas people are convinced hes unelectable. I am not attacking you guys but your guy opposes it like Kerry, and I do think its an oppertunity to go after Kerry, and I think hes dead wrong too, I am merely saying, only two candiates support literal gay marriage, yet we are acting as if the senator is a rare case which he isnt. I hope he changes his mind on this.

[ulysses]

75. has Dean stated active opposition to gay marriage?

Maybe he has - if so, I have another issue with Dean and the same issue I have now with Kerry. On balance, I have more issues with Kerry than with Dean at any rate.

If it really meant anything they would be suppporting DK or Sharpton...

An issue need not be a deciding one for it to mean something. Personally, I'm starting to lean harder toward Kucinich, but I'm a lot less inclined toward the "special Ks" approach.

[JohnKleeb]

76. I know that uly but Kerry did vote against DOMA

I am just saying its rather hypocritical to jump on Kerry for it when the original poster's candiate "has problems with it like everyone else" I just find it hypocritical, sorry. I prefer Kerry over Dean for my reasons and you have your reasons for prefering Dean over Kerry. Kerry isnt going around saying I oppose gay marriage, hes giving what he feels on the matter, and you know what hes wrong, but why is he and he only getting shit for this, Dean, Clark, Edwards should get equal scrunity. Sorry.

[ulysses]

79. "he only"?

I seem to recall several weeks not long ago where the regular topic in this forum was how Dean didn't really support gay rights, and it can't have been more than ten days ago that he was labelled the candidate with the worst civil rights record.

Sorry, but everyone's candidate has his ass inspected with a microscope. Kerry's the frontrunner, he gets a little more microscope.

[JohnKleeb]

90. bs then is bs now

I think they all have good gay rights records. Remember two wrongs dont make a right.

[ulysses]

91. "two wrongs dont make a right"

True, but please explain to me what I stand to gain by simply turning the other cheek to the smears against Dean.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

60. might have something to do with the threat issued earlier this year by

the Catholic church...that's just a guess but you can google it in the news if you'd like.

Earlier in the year when the RCC was taking shit for their priests, one of the archdioses in the Boston area threatened ex-communication to politican's who voted pro-life and pro-gay IIRC..Kerry did make a very public statement against their interference but probably did not want to piss off Dem leaning Catholics...I don't consider that CHICKEN...it's a reality.

For the record, as a gay person, I don't care if it's called a civil union or a marriage.

[JohnKleeb]

62. Kerry like me is Catholic

and is pro gay and pro choice, he is not pro gay marriage in name at least but is he good on this issue, I would say yes, Opus Dei probably hates Kerry :D, which is good :).

[ulysses]

77. but if it's a semantics issue to you,

why wouldn't it be to those same Dem-leaning Catholics? If the reality is as you say, does Kerry supporting civil unions instead of marriage make any real difference with them?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

80. I don't know..I can only speak for myself

Either way, I don't see this as an issue..and I don't see it as being apart from any of the stands save for Kucinich who mentioned it for the first time in his political career when he ran for president...ditto with Sharpton....Nader of course in 00 dismissed it all as gonadal politics.

[ulysses]

83. gratuitous Nader slap #23560.

Hell, why am I even bothering? Maybe it isn't all that big an issue after all, eh?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

86. How was that a NADER slap?

I am simply pointing out how HE adressed the issue. BY DODGING IT WITH A CUTE PHRASE.


Why am I bothering?

Howard Dean invented gay rights as did Kucinich..:eyes:

never fucking MIND that if JOHN KERRY had not been around to approve aids funding, and fastrack legislation at the FDA (which in case everyone forgets was NOT to be a fucking CORPORATIST but to get life saving drugs for AIDS/HIV patients to the market even though big pharma BASTARDIZED IT) half the goddamn gay people on this board that may or may not be HIV positive from the 90's would not be here to bash his sorry chickenshit ass.

Watch the movie BANG THE DRUM SLOWLY to remember what the aids crisis was like when it first cam about. Kerry was there to vote FOR gay people and has consistently done so.

Sorry but he WAS on the cutting edge...not Saint Howard who got civil unions through in a state the size of a city and not Dennis whose position is admirable but was absent until he ran for president.

JOHN KERRY HAS THE LONGEST LEGISLATIVE RECORD OF ANY OF THE CANDIDATES WHERE GAY RIGHTS ARE CONCERNED AND ALL THE FUCKING LIES BY THE FUCKING LIARS ON THIS BOARD CAN'T ERASE THAT RECORD!!!

[ulysses]

88. how is Nader even germaine?

You brought The Great Bogeyman into the discussion, not I.

Howard Dean invented gay rights as did Kucinich..:eyes:

I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth.

Kerry gets kudos from me for his pro-gay legislative efforts in the past, which is more than a lot of his supporters gave Dean for *his* efforts.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. With the exception of questioning the "confederate flag" comment

I was never on Dean's case until a week ago and with the exception of his anti-reproductive rights votes, I have never criticized Kucinich.

BTW..Kerry voted against DOMA..he gets a 100 rating from Human Rights Campaign

[ulysses]

95. I understand your dilemma.

Really, as a Dean supporter who's been cannonaded for the statements of other Dean supporters, I feel for you. But your boy's the leader now.

And I know Kerry voted against DOMA. Like I said, he gets kudos from me where they're due. His statement on the Mass. SC decision is what's under discussion, though.

[Terwilliger]

87. nsma! the {insert description} with the gleam in her avatar!

IM JUST KIDDING...but it's true {insert description}

Anyway, I'm not voting for Nader on March 2nd. I'm voting for Kucinich.

In November...if it's Kerry against Bush, with Nader harping...I'll probably vote for Nader. But nobody else will. I think I can safely make a "protest vote" in November if you can vote for Kucinich on March 2nd.

I mean...if Kerry loses California... :shrug:

Edit: more to Teena than to you, John :hi:

[HazMat]

48. I don't agree with Kerry, but understand his position.

If he comes out strongly for gay marriage, we will lose big in a year when there are such life and death issues on the table. Gay marriage is very polarizing.

Deep down, I'm confident that Kerry (and most of the Democratic contenders) believe in gay rights, but will lose badly if they take a strong position on gay marriage.

Lest we forget that St. Jack Kennedy himself ran as a MODERATE on civil rights because he knew the country was not ready for it. But there was no greater friend to the civil rights movement. He sought to lead the country towards the liberal, morally correct positon. I believe Kerry will do the same with gay rights.

[MrPeepers]

64. This did bother me, as a Kerry supporter

I'm willing to admit that I disagree with John on some points. I don't like that he's personally opposed to Gay Marriage. I am very much for it, HOWEVER, should we not exercise the same tolerance of ideas that we demand of others? If we are to ask others to tolerate people's differences, if we are to ask them to tolerate, say, homosexuals, then ought we not tolerate those who are opposed to gay marriage? I accept that he believes a marriage should be between a man and a woman. What is important, what is critical here, is that he is NOT willing to legislate to that end. He is not willing to set down law saying that a man and a man or a woman and a woman cannot marry. That is what is important here. I think we should be as tolerant as we demand others to be. I'll tolerate differences in opinion. What we needn't be tolerant of is an Administration that tries to force a moral position onto us. Kerry's Administration will be no such Administration, period.

Peepers

[Julien Sorel]

66. It's a sad reflection on the state of our country.

Civil unions will eventually lead to legalized gay marriages anyway, so it's just a matter or time. Until then, don't give the wingnuts the leverage of this issue.

Two of my closest friends are a lesbian couple, and this issue isn't that huge to them. I wonder how big it is throughout the G&L community.

[Cascadian]

98. I wonder how some of you feel about Ohio's ban on domestic partnerships?

Seems like Kerry supports what governor Taft and the Buckeye Repubs have done in Columbus. What is wrong with this picture?


John

[AVID]

71. sometimes another four years doesn't sound so bad

it might take that long for the democratic party to evolve into a species with a backbone again.

Hillary, 2008

[JohnKleeb]

72. indeed it is a shame

but we have a candiate out there who is favor in gay marriage and many other progressive policies but people have been convinced hes unelectable. Kucinich that is. 4 more years would not be good.

[zoeyfong]

84. America and dems need to hit rock bottom.

Yes, I am really to the point that I don't care if kerry or bush wins in 2004. Maybe if dems lose enough times by trying to get votes in the middle they might actually try to get some votes among their base. Funny, I had made a bumpersticker in the early '90's that said "Hillary in '96;" i won't vote for her now though, since she supported the war. I have lost a lot of respect for her and bill lately.

[anti-NAFTA]

85. I'm sure thousands of workers care. n/t

[Cascadian]

100. I hate to be a doom sayer but I think after 2004....

if the Democrats lose again, the party will no longer have any real credibility as a real opposition party or any political party for that matter. In fact, dare I say that the Democratic Party might as well die. The country will already be in the total control of the Neocons.

John

[Northwind]

74. John Kerry

Cowardice in action.

This man stands for nothing. Maybe all the GLBT people in the country could raise enough money to buy his vote like the lobbyists do?

[Cascadian]

93. That's what Howard Dean and I call Bush Lite.

See? The more this guy gets delegates, the less happy I am feeling about our chances in November.

:eyes:

John

[George_Bonanza]

97. We all know how Dean tried to pursue gay marriage in Vermont

Instead of settling for civil unions.

[ButterflyBlood]

101. really Howard Dean says so?

even though Dean has the EXACT SAME POSITION?

[Darranar]

96. Kerry voted against DOMA...

unlike Paul Wellstone and many other respectable senators.

His record on gay rights is excellent.

And it's not like Dean's "civil unions" are any better.

[phrenzy]

106. Keep your eye on the BALL!

Damn it - This is how Repugs are now winning elections.

They understand the wink/nod code - we DON'T.

I am no Kerry fan, but I truly believe that he is not personally 'opposed' to the idea of 'Gay Marriage' - But, politically, he HAS to say this!

We all know he would NEVER propose a constitutional amendment (like Shrub) to ban it.

We need to understand - that like Shrub, in order to get elected he has to pay his lip service to some distasteful but popular positions in order to get in and get Bush out.

Bush had to say "good people can disagree" on Abortion - but he is still rabidly pandering to the pro-lifers. He will SAY he will give jobs to illegals, give money to Africa for AIDS prevention, put us on Mars, etc. But these are all things he says to placate the MIDDLE.

His base KNOWS he doesn't mean ANY of this. That is why he has them locked up on election day. They've "gotten" it. They are nodding their heads and saying 'ahhhh, I see.. he's just SAYING this stuff"

I know it sucks. It really does - but we need to work WITHIN the framework of reality. It doesn't mean selling our souls. It means being strategic. He has to take away these issues before the pukes can use it against him.


We all need to start thinking in terms of being in an emergency. In emergency, we all have to just bite the bullet and do what's necessary to GET SHRUB OUT. It is going to mean doing some things we don't like, but this is an emergency and ridding the whitehouse of Shrub is the TOP priority.

Look at it this way. Wouldn't it be much better to have Kerry to protest against, then Shrub? I will vote for ABB - But once that person is IN - I will protest them at every turn if they try to pull shit that I disagree with. Including unjustified wars and proposing hateful anti-gay 'marriage defense' acts.

But, I would rather try to change Kerry's open mind then Bush's closed one.

Get it?

[arewethereyet]

105. I really cannot believe that the SC timed this decision this way

They either hate Kerry, are on the take or are just stupid.

And don't tell be that they couldn't have manged thier docket to avoid this.

This is stunningly unhelpful.

[LostInTheMaise]

107. What a man of principles not!

Either you support equal rights or not. No waffeling.

Kerry is NOT the one.

[TheStateChief]

108. I don't pretend to know everything...

but how is abandoning the goals that many Democrats have fought so hard to embrace for decades, so he can look and sound like Bush, any different than voting for the IWR, Patriot Act, NCLB, and all the other scummy policies Bushco and Rover introduced? He seems to still be marching lock-step with the right-wing on this one - I just don't see how abandoning your beliefs makes you more of a leader or more electable.

[Moderator]

110. locking

taking quotes out of context and misrepresenting the position of Senator Kerry. Also, the link to the story doesn't go anywhere.

Thanks