Should anti-DLC people form an anti-DLC alliance?

[Meldread]

As we all know the DLC has spit in the face of Democracy. There strategies have cost us seats in the House and Senate, and they've thoroughly beaten on Dennis Kucinich (called him a secret ally to Donald Rumsfeld) and Howard Dean (called his supporters extreme leftist lunatics).

Should Howard Dean capitalize on the grass roots movement he has created and form a new organization? Should he create an organization based on the Democratic values the DLC claims to represent but constantly fails to support?

It would be a shame to watch the grassroots movement behind Dean collapse if he loses the nomination. I personally believe that we should continue taking back our country, even if Dean fails to win the nomination. I believe that we should start by first taking back our party from those who have hijacked it from us.

Who else thinks this idea would be an idea worth pursuing?

[vi5]

1. You already have it....it's called the Green Party....

I'm sure they will welcome your votes with open arms.

[Meldread]

6. Not a new party.

The DLC and DNC are organizations within the Democratic Party. I am talking about an organization that works for the values the Democratic Party claims to represent, but working from under the Democratic tag.

(We are in a two party system. If our system allowed more than one party, I don't think there would be half as many democrats as there are now... nor as many Republicans.)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[corporatewhore]

13. actually w/talk about rationalizing being against gay marriage i think its

Republican Underground

[plurality]

14. goddamned that's original, you fuckin' kill me!

[Melinda]

21. Since you are new here, perhaps you should review the RULES:

1. This is a message board for Democrats and other progressives.
2. Treat people with respect. Don't be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger.

It's obvious you don't know anything about the history of DU, so you get a pass from me - this time.

[formernaderite]

32. Darn, there' s no such site up and running...

I jumped for joy at your suggestion.

[ulysses]

19. thank you for at least recognizing

that the Greens are the ones not spitting in the face of democracy.

[vi5]

22. That's not what I said.........If you don't like the democratic party

Because they aren't liberal enough then please by all means vote Green, register Green, etc. And by all means check back in with me periodically because I'd love to know how that is going.

But there are those of us who simply view more votes cast for one candidate than another to be an indication that a certain percentage more of our parties members want that person to be their nominee. Not some big conspiracy, not a blame game, not anything other than a majority of members of a party making a choice. And whether we agree with it or not we accept the result and work to make that person the victor in the presidential election.

Nobody is keeping anybody else tethered to the Democratic party.

[Meldread]

24. It's not about Kerry, Dean, or any other candidate.

It's about re-defining who we are as a party -- becoming the opposition instead of the "Yeah Whatever" party. It's about standing up for what we believe in. It's about re-connecting with the voting population and attracting new voters into our fold. It's about standing up for the people of America instead of doing the bidding of Corporate America. It's about doing what is right even when it isn't popular.

[vi5]

27. Well then provided you are still a democrat...

...and willing to accept the votes of a majority members of that party, then by all means I would applaud anyone trying to be a voice for change within that party and forming as many sub-groups as possible in order to institute that change from within.

What I'm not in favor of is sour grapes, or conspiracy theories, or insulting other people in the party who may feel differently than one particular group.

You didn't necessarily do this, but usually this rabid anti-DLC talk usually ends up going to those places eventually.

[dawgman]

39. Dear God, where do I sign up. I would give what little I have to an anti-

DLC group. Volunteer time and do research for them.

[madfloridian]

2. It is being pursued on several levels.

More later.

[markus]

41. Ah, now that's not fair

How much latter?

Why not start now:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NDProgressiveDems/?yguid=74831856">ND Progressive Dems

[madfloridian]

43. Your link does not work.

:hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I've found others who agree

and, surprisingly, they are independents and republicans who have gotten together with us leftists to elect a Democrat to the Presidency. They say that there needs to be a party that takes its cues from the people and not corporations. They will start working on this after the Democrat wins the Presidency.

[formernaderite]

33. Maybe we should hijack the reform party?

Before Pat Buchanan they were a pretty reasonable bunch....and certainly had support from both sides. I personally have always like Jesse Ventura, he ran as a true populist.

[Iverson]

34. It's been done.

The Greens got quite a few good folk from the ashes of the Reform Party in Michigan. I don't know how that played out in other states.

[no name no slogan]

46. Jesse Ventura......WORST....GOVERNOR....EVER

He ran as a populist, but he was HARDLY a populist. He was the most self-centered governor we in MN ever had.

One of his first acts in office was to cut the licensing fee on recreational vehicles, like ATVs and JetSkis. The fees from this licensing paid for state parks, which had to cut their budgets and calendars because of his elimination of the tax.

And why did he cut this licensing fee? Simple. He owned five JetSkis and was sick of paying to license them. Not very populist, but VERY selfish.

Over the course of Jesse's term, we watched a budget surplus turn into the biggest deficit in state history. He governed like a king, and issues pronouncements from on high, but refused to work with the legislature-- it was "my way or the highway" with him.

Not to mention the fact that he continued to moonlight as an actor, an XFL commentator, and a pro-wrestling "referee". Or the fact that he let his underage son use the governor's mansion as his personal rec room, where he and his spoiled brat rich-kid buddies caused thousands of $$ in damage and dispensed alcohol to minors.

(BTW, the governor's mansion is owned by the state, to be used as a residence/reception location by the sitting governor. Since Jesse lived close to the capitol, he only used it for state functions and did not ever live there).

Jesse Ventura was not a populist. He's a spoiled little crybaby who only cares about himself and how he looks. He was an abysmal governor, a worse actor, and completely useless as an "informed" commentator, if his MSNBC shows were any indication.

[The Sushi Bandit]

4. Count me in!

but what shall we call it??

the DCL?

Democratic Council of the Lefties?

[The Sushi Bandit]

5. Democratic Progressive Council sounds good!

now that I thought about it for a while.

[Meldread]

8. How about ADA?

American Democratic Association

[HFishbine]

15. Or the PDC?

Progressive Democratic Council?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. Yes

absolutely

[plurality]

9. i'm in, these DLC whores can toss my salad!

[MadHound]

11. It is most likely too late for the Democratic Party

It is corrupted almost beyond redemption. The logical alternative is to bring up a new party, one that isn't beholden to corporate interests and is to the left of the political spectrum. And I feel that the Greens should be that party. They already have the grassroots in place, they do have name recognition, people are already gravitating towards it from the Dems, and it take stances on the issues that almost all but the most conservative Democrat can agree with it.

Starting a new party from the ground up is a long and ardous task. It would be better to graft onto the one that is already in place and fill our needs.

[Meldread]

17. I would agree in principle.

However, the problem is that our system has been created so that it is essentially monopolized by two parties. Both Republicans and Democrats will fight you tooth and nail if you tried to break outside of their confines.

That is why I believe our best bet is working from within the info-structure of the Democratic Party -- to take a firm hold over the grassroots and use that to diminish the DLC's stranglehold over the party.

Really, this is the only *REAL* alternative that can work. (At least until we are able to create a system where a large number of parties can operate at once – breaking up the duopoly stranglehold.)

[arendt]

37. Correct. Winner-take-all voting forces a two-party system...

any group that splits off from one of the two parties, merely
weakens that party; e.g., Ross Perot killed Bush.

Until we can get Proportional Representation passed, like
Europe has, we are stuck with two parties.

And I want one of them to represent the people, not the
corporations.

So count me in.

arendt

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. not too late for the Dems, but Waaaay to late for the Greens

I'm sorry, but the Greens are based on an ideology - the 10 principles - that the majority of Americans either do not agree with, or don't care about. That's a fact.

The Democratic party is based on pragmatism and politicking. We can BUY influence in the Democratic party - because right now the DNC and the DLC have very little power or organization in Washington.

They are RIPE for the picking. We will NOT gain power through "people powered Howard" or TV commercials or email.

We need a strong organization, and money to bribe politicians with. That's the way the game is played, and we can do it if we try.

[corporatewhore]

12. where do i sign THE DLC CAN KISS MY LEFTIST ASS!!!!

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. God forbid a DLCer like Kerry or Edwards wins the nomination

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

20. Yes, the DLC is doing such a good job

of handing over all three branches of government (plus the states) to the Republicans.

Thanks, Clinton! The Lewinsky "scandal", Nafta, Welfare deform, Haiti, DOMA, etc. Thanks, DLC, for losing the whole game in 6 years.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. When was the last time a non-DLC Democrat been elected President?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

42. when was the last time we had a third party take 20% of the vote?

the DLC had one assisted win (beating Dole hardly counts). They are hardly the saviors of the party they are made out to be.

[wyldwolf]

45. Sorry, that theory doesn't fly and has been debunked

DLC'er Gore won in 2000.

Plus, saying Perot allowed Clinton to win in '92 is a rightwing talking point, still used as an excuse by the right to claim the Clinton presidency wasn't legitimate.

I challenge you to provide proof of your charge.

Waiting...

[MoonRiver]

23. Go ahead make it official. Then you can start your own message board!

:hi:

[mdguss]

25. I like the DLC, but this is a good idea:

Further debate within the party--as long as it is civil--will force the party to refine and improve its message. The current primary (which has been more or less civil) is a good example of that.

[MoonRiver]

30. Sure, why not.

If we're a big tent then we should reflect that philosophy by respecting all points of view. I'm actually surprised that a progressive Democratic organization doesn't already exist. Heck, I might join it as long as I don't think we're shooting ourselves in the foot just to make a point.

[Meldread]

35. The problem with the DLC...

The problem with the DLC is the fact that they don't see the Democratic Party as the "big tent". In fact they've gone out of their way to say progressives aren't wanted, and that they are costing the Democrats elections. They've bought into the lies and garbage that Rush Limbaugh is selling.

The DLC wants the Democrats in the "center". The problem with that is: How do you define the center? Center of what? We don't have a third party which can be seen as liberal. We only have Republicans (who hold everything from Pat Robertson to Ronald Reagan) and the Democrats (who hold everything from Zell Miller to Dennis Kucinich). The problem with being in the center is the further the Republicans move to the right the further right the Democrats have to move to maintain a centrist point of view. This leaves the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party" behind. I would say that most (average) Democrats define themselves at the very least "left leaning". The further the Democrats move to the right the more of the party they leave behind.

It's like a leader who charges into battle only to turn around and notice no one is following him. The gap between the "Democrats" and their "leaders" is growing with each election cycle. Why do you think they lost in 2002? Sure, a lot of it had to do with a popular President (at least at that time). However, a lot of people also stayed home or voted for a third party.

I believe a new organization within the party may actually save the soul of the party. Because pretty soon the DLC is going to turn around and notice that no one is following.

[Iverson]

26. I'd say build the Greens, only I don't mean it snarky.

I grew up as a Democrat and continue to have a great affection for that part of the party that remembers social justice.

However, the changes over the last generation or so have become increasingly hard to take. Some positions and policies seem to me as antithetical to the spirit of the Democratic Party that I remember, and sometimes candidates need to know that no one has a proprietary claim upon my vote.

In Michigan, when I can, I will help the Greens to grow. The Democratic Party could very, very easily make them unnecessary. It ain't happenin'.

Ideas, not capital letters, are the essential thing.

[MGKrebs]

28. Well, I would think a Dean victory would

show the DLC who's the boss now. WE THE PEOPLE!

[chocolateeater]

31. Yes, because spreading democracy with war

is not a value I think the Democratic Party should be espousing.

[wyldwolf]

36. Please do

[Cascadian]

38. YES!

It's time for a full on power struggle with the DLC! The Democratic Party MUST go back to it's progressive roots. If Dean fails to get the nomination, he should take the initiative to start a united front to take the Democratic Party base. There needs to be a counterbalance to the DLC and the center-right stance it has taken. Let's keep the momentum going! I would love to see the ruckus go on in Boston this summer. Go for it!


John

[Armstead]

40. Check out Progressive Majority

Here's some things from their website:

http://www.progressivemajority.org/about/

Progressive Majority has a clear and bold purpose: To elect progressive champions who will help change the direction of this country. We will do this by building a nationwide member network that will provide much-needed early support to progressive candidates - helping them to win elections and bring our values back into the halls of government.

Progressive Majority is your one-stop connection to innovative and idealistic candidates working to build a practical — and progressive — future. Progressive Majority will foster the emergence of a talented "farm team" of future progressive leaders and decision-makers in Washington, DC and in the states. We know it's not going to happen overnight. But it can happen with disciplined strategies, determination and yes, your dollars.

It's time to turn up the heat. Progressive Majority members need to lead the way against the anti-worker, anti-family, anti-environmental agenda being pushed by the Bush Administration and the conservatives who control Congress. But that's not all. Progressives must also challenge and embolden Democrats to fight against the conservative tide in Washington, DC and state legislatures throughout the country.

In this political cycle, Progressive Majority will provide early seed money for promising progressive candidates, focusing on Congressional races. We will also conduct outreach, recruitment and training to create new classes of top-flight progressive candidates for key federal, state and local races — and we will provide the campaign support necessary to put these candidates in office.




The Progressive Majority Agenda: A Future Worth Fighting For
No one agrees on everything — especially progressives. But here at Progressive Majority, our focus is on the common sense values that unite us. We're solely devoted to electing people who will lead the fight for economic justice, civil rights, health care, education, the environment, and reproductive freedom.

Most Americans want a more just, more enlightened country — one that pays its workers a living wage, that bans sweatshops and keeps our food safe, that guarantees comprehensive affordable health care for all, that invests in high quality education for our children, that ensures dignity and security for seniors, that protects civil and political rights, that stays out of our bedrooms and private lives, and that works to protect the air we breathe, and the water we drink. These are majority positions — just not in the current Congress or many state legislatures. With your help, we aim to change that fact.

Progressive Majority will recruit candidates and help to finance and organize their campaigns. What will we look for? We'll look for leaders, not careerists; for stalwarts, not trimmers; for workers, not shirkers.

What issues will we expect them to support? A set of issues based on common sense and common decency. Our agenda is designed to unite progressives around a set of core concerns while still allowing us to promote a multi-issue progressive agenda that we expect our candidates to champion.

We're electing progressive leaders on the basis of their principles and their ability to champion a broad progressive agenda. Learn more about some of the positive progressive ideas worth pursuing:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

44. http://www.21stdems.org

http://www.21stdems.org