My conversation with a neighbor who is a Medal of Honor recipient

[Stinky The Clown]

There's a neighbor and friend of mine - a few years older than me - who won the Congressional Medal of Honor in Korea. He's a member of a group called the Chosin Few and served with the 1st Marines in that frozen hellhole. To this day, he flies the American flag, 24/7, and the Marine Corps flag below on a lighted flag pole - all very proper and respectful.

I've known this guy since 1980. He's a lifelong Republican, but in no way one of the nutters of the modern 'base'. This is an area of Maryland where, before suburbanization, was agricultural and Republican and he was born and raised here and lived here all his life. He's a Republican just because he is.

His property is pretty prominent, being located on a corner where everyone coming or going has to pass it. And every campaign season he has his modest set of campaign signs on the lawn.

The other day, it was hot and I was taking SparklyJr to work. She had a late shift, so it was about noon. He's out in his yard doing some gardening. As I passed, I rolled down the window and yelled something neighborly, inane, really, like "hey, get out of the heat, ya mad man!' He waved, We smile, and I was gone.

One the way back, it occurred to me that he has no lawn signs. They're everywhere else, to be sure. But he had none. Hmmmm. I decided to stop and ask him about it.

"Hey", I said, 'no Ehrlich sign?"

"Ya know, Stinky, I'm just not sure this year." My heart started to race.

"Ehrlich may not be so bad, but I just can't go for Steele. I don't like Mfume, either, so if Cardin wins the primary, that's who I'll vote for."

Mind you, this guy has *never* failed to have Republican campaign signs on hs lawn in the 25 years I've known him. Never ever.

He just felt like talking. I shut off the car and we walked over the bench he has under a tree. He offers me a cigar and i take it. I light his and then mine. We puff.

"I don't even recognize the Republican Party anymore. I mean, (wife) and I go to church every Sunday. We're religious, but that's all I hear from them anymore. Religion and hate. Not so much the local people, although there's some of it here, too. But the national people."

We puff a bit more. (It was a very good cigar!)

"Lemma ask ya," I say, "what about the next presidential election?

"I voted for Jimmy Carter. I voted for Kennedy. I could vote for the right Democrat again."

I still have a few stickers on my truck left over from the 04 primary and a Veteran for Kerry sticker from the general on my car.

"I've noticed that ("my guy") sticker on your truck. I could vote for someone like him."

I smiled. 'Nuff said. We talked some more about his yard and lawn bugs, the heat and the shitty looking property that has gotten worse since the new people moved in. He asked when I started shaving my head and if I use a blade or electric.

I took another puff.

"Blade. I do it blind. In the shower."

"It doesn't hurt?"

"Nope. Its the most liberating thing I ever did. Of course, Sparkly thought at first I looked like a drill sergeant, but now that its been a few years ...... "

It was good cigar, indeed ......

[geckosfeet]

1. blessed be the peacemakers,,,

[babylonsister]

2. H2S, best account I've heard all day! Your neighbor

sounds like a fine man who's given this some thought! Thanks for sharing! :applause:

[TomInTib]

3. I have a friend who is ex-Special Forces and has always voted

Republican. All his life, without fail.

One of the most conservative, righty guys I have ever known.

Also the most dangerous (he was an instructor for my SEAL extraction Team at Coronado, 1969).

We were talking yesterday and he told me that he didn't think he could ever vote Republican again.

He also said he had been thinking about shooting people (I am not using any names, here) and that he didn't care how long it took - if his wife dies before he does, he's got a list. Said he could wait forever.

[babylonsister]

5. Multiply him. I imagine there are many out there. nt

[TomInTib]

6. self-delete

[glitch]

24. Yikes, Cheney's gonna need that bunker.

I still think he's eyeing Cheyenne Mountain.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. Yeah, now that they've ordered the riff raff out

The riff raff being career people who have worked there for years.

[calimary]

4. Hot diggity-dog! Dang - I LOVE stories like these.

I swear, I scan the boards here for stories about saved souls, and I savor every one.

Thanks for posting this - every inch, every baby step, every single conversion, every one of these gets us closer to The Goal. The Big Take-Back. And then, of course, I'd like to see us get rolling on an IMPEACHMENT!

Thanks for this - it is MOST encouraging. Thanks to everybody with testimonials like these to share. I love every one of them.

:toast:

[Kingofalldems]

7. I remember a guy from the 'Chosin Few'

Might be the same guy. Nevermind, different guy.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. No

[adigal]

41. My father, a Republican since 1980, fought in the Chosin Reservoir

and he cannot even talk about Bush/Cheney, he is so sick of it all.

[NMDemDist2]

9. wow

:wow:

it's wonderful that real patriots recognize this crew for what they are

fascist, totalitarian bastards

:patriot: for your neighbor

[autorank]

10. K&R ... start your national tour now. You're doing great.

Why not expect sensible, decent people to come on over this time around. I think that there are a bunch of people out there who are very well meaning & Republican, who will come around. Can't wait.

When you neighbor says he's read RFK Jr's article in Rolling Stone, they we'll know the Republicans are really finished.

Great work, keep it up and head South to Virginia. We need more Democrats like you.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Webb's on my 'give' list

I really, really admire the guy.

[autorank]

13. He's a great guy, quite a career of service and a true patriot.

He'd give the Democrats in the Senate some fighting spirit. He's trailing but close for this point in the campaign. His aid nailed Allen (which I'm sure you say but if not here it is) for questioning Allen's patriotism...my kind of Democrat!


Horse with horses ass!

June 27, 2006 (Allen's aid tried to 'swiftboat' Webb on patriotism regarding the 'flag burning' amendment. Here's the response that was came almost immediately:))

From a statement released by Steve Jarding, an adviser to Jim Webb's VA Senate campaign.

“George Felix Allen Jr. and his bush-league lapdog, Dick Wadhams, have not earned the right to challenge Jim Webb’s position on free speech and flag burning. Jim Webb served and fought for our flag and what it stands for, while George Felix Allen Jr. chose to cut and run. When he and his disrespectful campaign puppets attack Jim Webb they are attacking every man and woman who served. Their comments are nothing more than weak-kneed attacks by cowards. George Felix Allen Jr. needs to apologize to Jim Webb and to all men and women who have served our nation."

On Tuesday, George Felix Allen Jr. and his campaign issued a press release in which the Allen campaign, through Wadhams, implied that Webb’s position in support of the Free Speech Amendment to the U.S. Constitution amounted to a political act and not a defense of our Constitution, which Webb fought for and for which he was highly decorated. George Felix Allen Jr. did not serve.

“While Jim Webb and others of George Felix Allen Jr.’s generation were fighting for our freedoms and for our symbols of freedom in Vietnam, George Felix Allen Jr. was playing cowboy at a dude ranch in Nevada. People who live in glass dude ranches should not question the patriotism of real soldiers who fought and bled for this country on a real battlefield,” Jarding said.

Amen brother!!!!

[Tin Man]

12. It's a keeper - please add to your journal !

Great writing - thanks for sharing your intriguing encounter with DU!

[Vinnie From Indy]

14. Cheers to you and your neighbor!

You have a wonderful writing style and, it seems, a great neighborhood. Thanks for sharing!!!!

[proud patriot]

15. Thanks for sharing

:hi:

[Johnyawl]

16. I'm in awe...

...I knew men who had fought at Chosin...but to win a Medal Of Honor at a battle like that...this combat Marine can only imagine what hell he saw, and what he must have done to attract that kind of honor in a battle where every Marine was fighting desperately, going "above and beyond the call of duty".

We call everybody a hero now, and we debase the word.

I'm a combat veteran. That man's a Hero.

I salute him.

(and a great story, thanks for sharing)

[madrchsod]

19. my brother in law fought in that action

his description of that action was, to say the least, graphic. ya those guys were something special. ya i`m in awe of anyone who win the medal of honor during this action...

[Stinky The Clown]

22. A little back story ........

I only learned just a few years ago that the guy I wrote about in the OP was a Medal of Honor winner. Two other neighbors fit into this story. The first is the one who learned about the Medal of Honor. He's a full bird Colonel in our Army Rserve (he's actually regular Army, involved in the adminstration of our reserve units). He's the one who learned about this and mentioned it to me (and others) a few years back. The guy in the OP simply never mentioned it and no one else who may have known did, either, Kinda typical when you think about some of these guys. Just quiet heros, as most real heros are.

There's another guy in the neighborhood who is also a Marine vet from the Korean era. He has minimal awards and was just another guy who served unremarkably. He never saw any combat in Korea, but was there, assigned to a helicopter maintenance unit. To hear him tell it, you'd think he led the charge in every battle our guys fought over there. Where the guy in the OP is quiet and more thoughtful, our local GI Joe is for*ever* yammering about 'when he was in the Corps'. He's been here about 20 years and I suspect everyone's heard the same stories a hundred times. He's a Republican, too ..... the kind we all love to hate. He's the one who gets the HillaryHate e-mails from other assholes and sends them to everyone in the neighborhood. I got a few from him, long time ago, and mentioned to him I didn't appreciate them at all. I didn't even bother to rty to refute them. Just asked him to stop sending them to me. That didn't bother him. He stopped sending them, but still goes on and on as he always did.

[Sparkly]

26. So true

That one reminds me of the crazy general in the old show, "Soap." Except, as we know, he was only in the service a few years and it's like those years comprise his entire life.

[welshTerrier2]

17. clowns have that way about them ...

he waved those two cigars around in his left hand and slowly reached into his pocket with his right ... my training and years of cautiousness briefly flashed thoughts of a weapon hidden from view ... i held fast and showed him no sign of reacting ... he pulled out a lighter, handed me one of the cigars and offered me a light ...

as the first exhales of smoke mingled in the air between us, the clown spoke ... "so, what's the '08 presidential election looking like to ya?"

i knew where he was coming from and really didn't have much fight left in me ... the last few years had taken care of that ... i reached deep into my own pocket and rubbed my thumb across the silver dollar i kept there ... i used to pretend it was a george w. bush silver dollar ... it used to give me special powers ... it doesn't work anymore ... i'm not really sure why i still carry the thing around with me ... old habits die hard, i guess ...

still, i wasn't ready to give the clown his due ... i knew the words he spoke were the truth ... the clown knows people ... he understands people ... he knew when to press and when to just kind of puff and let the thoughts that transpired between us remain unspoken ... clowns have that way about them ... you might call them kind of spooky ... strange day, this ...

[madrchsod]

18. one at a time....that`s all it takes

i think he needed someone to talk about his feelings about our country . you know there are thousands of republicans his age that feel the same way and i hope to god the democrats are smart enough to realize this. yes one person at a time and the war will be won..

[bleever]

20. I smell it.

Cut lawns, cigars in the summer air, and change. It's in the wind.


Thanks for the story.

[hootinholler]

21. Hmmm...

Maybe I should head over to the AMVETS club I've been avoiding because I don't want to get in real trouble. You know, deputies showing up kind of trouble.

Oh, you shaved your head, and I haven't gotten a cut since Nov '04. Miss mini-Hoot sez "Daddy your hair is Looong."

Nice story, and it is amazing that he survived the acts leading to the MOH. When I was in the Navy, I was walking with our naviguesser, a Lt., and he saluted a grizzled chief first. (for those who don't know, officers return salutes to enlisted, not the other way around) Being the sea pup I was, I asked him why, and he explained what that pretty blue ribbon with the stars on it was that the chief was sporting, and said I figure he deserves my salute. That is my closest encounter with a MOH recipient.

This story is encouraging indeed, and similar ones is why I'm leaning Cardin.

-Hoot

[Sammy Pepys]

23. Great story....

Sounds like that guy would still make a hell of a Marine.

I didn't think we had anymore Korean War Medal of Honor winners around!

[OldSiouxWarrior]

27. The Public Record Does Not Support Your Story

I am NOT calling you or your friend a liar. Perhaps you misunderstood the award that he received.

Please be advised that a little bit of googling brings up web pages devoted to the subject of who did and didn't get what medals, especially the MOH. Those pages are non-partisan.

There are only four living Marine Corp Korean War MOH recipients. None of those four were from Maryland, and none of those seven live there now.

When things are claimed that are not factual, the progressive movement suffers loss of credibility.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. I have no proof other than the word of a friend

You offer nothing that even approaches that. Perhaps a link?

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. ...

http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/living/living_branch_marines.html

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Thanks for the link

He's not on the list

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. Sure it wasn't the DSC or Navy Cross?

Those are the second-highest awards for bravery in combat...suppose it's possible something got confused somewhere, since you say you got the information at second hand.

[Stinky The Clown]

34. I don't know .....

.... and I'm afraid to even guess right now. Please see my expaned post, just below .... #33.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. I am now doubtful that he was even awarded those .....

I found this site: http://www.homeofheroes.com/hometownheroes/md.html which lists all MOH, DSC, NC, AFC and USMC Brevet winners in Maryland. His name is not here.

If he has a commendation for bravery (and I **still** am of a mind he does), it must be lower. Silver Star? Bronze Star?

Are you aware of any public record listings of these? I found this site, but it doesn't claim to be complete and states that most of its registry are Army (although I found a number of Marines, but not him). http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/silver_star/index.htm#Recipients

[OldSiouxWarrior]

32. Sorry. I should have added a link.

I apologize for the oversight. Actually, it would have been several links as there would have been one for the list, and then a separate search for each of the four. Still, I should have backed up my assertion.

You have handled this sad news with considerable grace. I compliment you on that. I was afraid that I would be starting a flame war with my first post.

Thank you Spider for your assistance. BTW - As a long time lurker, I enjoy your posts.

[Stinky The Clown]

33. No problem ......

Flame wars erupt when one or the other party is operating in bad faith - or is delusional. My original post would have been nearly the same had I not mentioned any awards or commendations (i.e.: "My conversation with a Korean War vet"). I included the MOH reference since that was what I thought to be true. You and Spider Jeruselem cited what you see to be fact and that was backed up. In total, this would be a matter of an error and correcting the record. That isn't the basis for a flame war.

For my part, I do intend to ask around and get better information. I am going to ask the person who told me and I am also going to ask the other Korean vet what he might know. That said, this is not an issue I would have any reason to be asking about directly since the person at the heart of the story never told me directly and since there's no reason why I would be asking anyone about this at all. I wish I could tell everyone that I will make a few phone calls today and have an answer later. I just can't do that. That said, our neighborhood gets together frequently and this sort of conversation almost always comes up. When it does, I will make sure I find out something definitive. If I can do that sooner, I will.

In the meantime, it was not my intent to decieve. It seems I have inadvertantly done so and for that I'm sorry. The story as told in the OP is otherwise correct and that Marine Corps flag flies as described. I suppose a man who served might want to display two flags like that, but it seems highly unlikely if he was just another grunt. Indeed, it was the fact that the flag is on his flagpole, all properly lighted 24/7, that added to my sense of truth about the whole MOH thing.

On edit: to clarify my own view, for the record. I mentioned how he flies these flags. In all the years I've known him, I don't recall him ever mentioning military service at all. The flags are there. The story was out there, but second hand. Given the story and the flags, I never questioned the facts or the details.

At this point I don't know what else to say, but welcome questions if anyone has them.

[yardwork]

35. As you say, the MOH is not central to the issue

I enjoyed reading your OP, but I was surprised and somewhat doubtful that your neighbor had actually received a Medal of Honor. They are extremely rare and most are given posthumously. The fact that he didn't receive one does not detract one iota from his record as a Marine serving in Korea.

It's very likely he was awarded other medals, and one of your neighbors got the story wrong.

The point of your post is that here is somebody you have known to be a loyal Republican who is fed up with this regime, and that's good news.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Indeed

That, as you stated it, is the central issue.

That said, I am not one to put out false claims (not opinions, but claims stated as fact). For that, I feel badly.

[ComerPerro]

38. My parents have a politcially active friend and neighbor in IL

who always comes around with Republican literature.

Until a few weeks ago....

[Disturbed]

39. Millions of Paleo-Repubs are not happy with

the Busholini Regime. They know that this Regime is not in the standard "Conservative" mode. This Regime is in the Fascist (Corporatist) mode. Will this realization bring millions of Paleo-Repubs to the Dem side? I doubt that. Most likely they will sit out many elections.

[yardwork]

40. I'd rather they sit out elections than move the Democrats right

The Democratic Party has moved much too far to the right already, imo. I don't want disenchanted Republicans to join the party only to move it even further right. That happened after Watergate and it's one reason we're in this mess now.

I want to see a Socialist movement in this country. I mean it. It's time for universal healthcare, for one thing. It's time for a major commitment to renewable energy development. It's time we stopped pussyfooting around with "moderates" who are to the right of Barry Goldwater.

I've had it with people who are just now waking up to the fact that bushco is incompetent. Where the &^%$ have they been?

[underpants]

42. Great post

It's easy to sit in the back and throw wisecracks around. Going to the front and leading is a whole other ballgame.

EJ Dionne had a good piece about this last weak. The Conservative movement is dying (though I am not counting any chickens) because it was flawed to start with and they never meant to make good on any of their claims anyway their whole mission is simple to rile up the white middle class and then rape them.

Good to hear that story.