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[blm]

6. I am the main one who has held Dean's 11 year record up to scrutiny.

Blame me. Please do.

I am proud that I stood against the man whose centrist corporate record did NOT match his populist campaign rhetoric.

I am also proud that I did NOT attack Dean for personal and family matters, or for personal attributes and especially did not pile on at his more unfortunate moments.

Pete has been stand up in regard to all the candidates throughout his posting.

[Schmendrick54]

12. Since you asked me to, OK. I will blame you.

Hello blm.

I would like to give you credit for two things:

1. You stood up to defend Pete, which I think he deserves.

2. You have provided a lot of links to informative sites with useful information about Governor Dean's record, which is fine with me.

But, ..., (everyone knew that "But" was coming, didn't you?)

I think you have gone overboard on occasion. I will post one example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=105758#113655

In this thread, you post a reply, which you titled, "Dean has the LONGEST record of kissing GOP ass of all the candidates."

In this reply you say "He (Dean) LIED about his antiwar stance and only incomprehensive dolts could possibly STILL believe him when you read all his different stances on it, and even his admission that his position would have still led to war. It's as if you want to believe him when he lies and WON'T believe him when he admits the truth."

Well, I may be an incomprehensible dolt, but I read all of your links (and saw and heard a lot of Dean's remarks in person) and I do not think he has lied about his position on the war. I happen to pay a lot of attention to what the candidates say about Bush's invasion of Iraq, since my son was among the first soldiers to enter Baghdad.

I have donated scores of hours and hundreds of dollars to Dean's campaign, because I (incomprehensive dolt that I am) thought he had the best chance to beat Bush (because he was standing up and pointing out his lies while others were not). But I always planned to put my time and money toward whomever our party chose to nominate. Your vitriol (as in the example above) certainly does nothing to motivate me to support your chosen candidate. I intend to enthusiastically support Kerry if he wins the nomination anyway, but there are probably many others who will not be so forgiving of being called dolts.

There are probably some who will remember that Kerry was the guy whose supporters called Dean a liar and a GOP a$$-kisser and decide they cannot be bothered to send in that check or put that sign in their yard or even make it to the polls in November. And I will blame you for that, though it pains me to write it, because I consider you to be a valuable contributor here.

Schmendrick, the incomprehensive dolt, who still believes that there are two million Americans who would pay $100 to get their country back.

[blm]

13. Remarks made in the spirit of the board at the time.

Dean supporters trashed Kerry in the most inhumane terms for a year.

I was one of a few fighting back a hundred.

I'm proud of myself and my compatriots who stood their ground a helluva lot more decently than most of the Dean supporters who kicked Kerry and mocked us as delusional every step of the way.

And they know who they are.

[Schmendrick54]

15. Let me clarify...

Thanks for responding, blm.

I know that there were many who trashed Kerry here (Including Dean supporters and supporters of other candidates). Perhaps there were more inappropriate remarks made by Dean supporters than against Dean -- it did not seem that way to me, but I did not keep score. I suspect that people who support candidate X tend to be more sensitive to what they deem as unfair criticism (i.e., bashing) of candidate X, and tend to regard criticism of other candidates as thoughtful (unless it is blatantly unfair bashing). Hence, we all tend to think the other guy's supporters are the incomprehensive dolts who are kicking our candidate and mocking us, while our side is standing our ground and fighting back. I guess we are all the hero in our own stories (and I include myself in that).

My bottom line -- I did not mean to suggest that you were the worst (or the first) participant in the spirited debate of three weeks ago. I only pointed it out because most of the remarks of this type are from folks I tend to ignore, because the signal to noise ratio is too low. I don't tend to ignore your posts, because I usually find something worthwhile.

Sincere regards,
Schmendrick, who still likes blm, even though s/he thinks him a dolt.

[blm]

18. she

never thinks everyone is a dolt when she is in a rant. Some, but not all.

;)

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[King of New Orleans]

5. I don't view any of the attacks as influencing me.

Just about every candidate has posters taking cheap shot at the other candidates. Though it doesn't mean you shouldn't make an effort to keep things civil (hence this thread I guess).

Today there's been alot of barking between the Edwards and Clark people. Have to take it all with a grain of salt. You also have to accept the fact that no matter what candidate you support there are always going to be other people backing the same candidate that you think are total jerks, or glad-handers, or opportunists, so forth.

[GumboYaYa]

14. Hey King of New Orleans, welcome to DU!

Are you in the crescent city now? I grew up in LA and lived in New Orleans for five years.

[King of New Orleans]

17. Yes, yes I am

Live about 100 yards from the levee. Been here for almost 15 years now.

[GumboYaYa]

25. Warehouse district?

I was down for the Sugar Bowl (I'm an LSU grad). We stayed uptown most of the time. The quarter was insane. I did drive down once and went through the warehouse district. I'm amazed how much that area has developed.

We will be back fo jazz fest. We go every year.

[LuminousX]

7. While supporters play a role in my decision making process

It is a pathetically small role. My issue with Kerry is Kerry himself. That attitude of the supporters means I have no problem openly expressing my disgust with a man I once admired so greatly.

It takes us longer to forgive friends because we expect more from them. I expected a lot from Kerry and he has failed on nearly every issue.

There is nothing that I can do now to make him beholden to the people. The die has been cast and nothing has changed.

[Padraig18]

8. Bingo!

I couldn't have said it better!

[hippiegranny]

9. Pete, you rock

I think that many people on this forum are acting like spoiled toddlers who've missed their naps. After observing the trend taking place across the nation over the past couple of weeks and comparing it to what is being said here at DU I have come to the conclusion that the loudest and baddest here are quite removed from reality.

While it is GOOD to be be passionate for a candidate of choice, it is not OK to spew hate and vitriol towards OTHER democrats, especially since we are all going to have to pull together and try to like the guy who gets the nomination in the end.

And those who choose to vote third party or not at all, to preserve their own ethics or whatever, are going to be the ones who are throwing daily tantrums here for another four years because Jr. gets four more years to finish the fuck-up he started.

I am not here every day, but I have been around DU for 3 years, and everything I have ever read from you, Pete NYC, convinces me you are not a basher or a gloater.

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[edzontar]

11. Kerry supporters as a whole have been no worse than some others

But the problem, as my coelagues have noted, is with your candidate, whom many of us find extremely wanting in both substance and style.

[arendt]

16. Thanks for your call for civility. I continue, respectfully,...

to support Dean.

The electability issue is a bogus media creation. I refuse
to let the media tell me how to vote. No one has shown me
how the current media lovefest for Kerry cannot turn 180
degrees in a minute. The media is not on the side of ANY
Democrat (unless, perhaps, that Dem is a DINO like Lieberman).
The media promotes one Dem only to trash another Dem.
When all the Dems have been trashed but the nominee, then the
media will start praising Bush again. Don't fall for it.

As far as I'm concerned, all the other candidates are using
Dean's issues , Dean's internet techniques, and Dean's message
but trashing Dean. Everyone writes about how pumped up
Dems are and how they are *angry* at Bush and this is
a good thing. But HD's anger is a bad thing. Total hypocrisy.

As far as Kerry, like all the other spineless jellyfish in Congress,
he voted with the Republicans to weaken the Constitution and
give Bush a blank check for war. I went to Kerry's office twice to
personally ask why the hell he intended to vote for these horrors.
I got the "we adults know better than you" speech. Kerry's behavior
is not something abstract for me. It is VERY personal. If you vote like
a Republican at the most crucial moment in our nation's history,
with thousands of voters calling, faxing, writing, and visiting you
to oppose Bush, then why should anyone give you a free pass?

arendt

[displacedtexan]

20. I wish electability weren't an issue for me.

Like many of us here at DU, I adore DK; however, I believe he would be roundly trounced by the BFEE in the GE.
I spent quite a long time last Summer deciding on a candidate to support in the GE. I made a chart, compared records and the ability to match BFEE $ for $, and I chose Senator Kerry.
We Kerry supporters were laughed at and dismissed out-of-hand both publicly and in many DU threads. It's much worse now that JK is leading in the polls and in delegate counts.
I want to beat * by a large enough margin that cheating is impossible. Firefighters, veterans, and union members have shown the BFEE that they are determined to oust the freak monkey and restore dignity to Americans who either work or want to work.
I've just about stopped posting, even though I'm online all day at work, because I'm afraid that anything I post in support of JK will infuriate supporters of other candidates.
I will support and vote for any Democratic candidate in the GE, but I fear that the major difference between Dems and Repukes will once again destroy our chances in November: Repukes fight like hell during the primary season but all band together to win in the GE; Dems fight like hell in the primary season, but those whose candidate doesn't win the nomination feel obligated to 'send a message' to the party by either staying home on election day or by forming a third party.
We can't defeat the BFEE unless we all stand together.
So I agree with PeteNYC. We can't continue to bash each other; if we do, the BFEE wins.

[deutsey]

19. Great

I have nothing but respect for you.

However, I have to say that while I will vote for Kerry if he's nominated, I'm going to find it very difficult to get involved in his campaign in large part due to some Kerry supporters here.

I have a feeling they're the exceptions and people like you are the norm, so maybe I'll be able to volunteer for your guy if he's nominated. I'm still doubtful, but hope springs eternal. :-)

[King of New Orleans]

22. The impression I get is

alot of people here aren't quite the norm :)

The fact is that in general elections you have two candidates that have a chance to win and there are way more than two worldviews, so you ultimately have to compromise and go with the one closest to your view, or vote for one who has no chance, or just not vote. If you work for one of the final two, I guarantee there will be supporters you cannot stand, that's just how it is.

[deutsey]

23. It helps deal with "those" people when you believe in the candidate

Which, unfortunately, I don't in this case.

[GalleryGod]

21. Nice Try,Pete!

My List (as opposed to Emily's list) Continues to grow like Yeast!

Your Guy in the Faculty Nook of the S.U.B. gradin'Bluebooks:argh:

G.G.:smoke:

[Hoppin_Mad]

24. Thanks Pete - You've always been one of the Good Guys -nt-

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[JohnKleeb]

27. Nice Pete

Youre absolutely right. Good for you man.

[blm]

29. bump for a good guy

.

[maddezmom]

30. hmmm, did you know of upcoming merger between Kerry/Dean

when you posted this? :)