Undecided with 5 days to go (Virginia primary)

[carolinayellowdog]

Hey,

I never thought I'd be one of those voters still undecided the week before an election, but this is a case where I will be obliged to violate an important part of my conscience to vote for anyone. So, which principle to throw to the wind?

I knew, all my friends knew, 95% of DUers knew, most of the world knew, that the Iraq invasion was catastrophically wrong, based on lies, doomed to disaster. If Kerry and Edwards didn't know this, they are too obtuse to be president. If they did know it and went along anyway, they are too morally bankrupt. No matter how much I can find to like about either of them, I can never forget that they enabled the greatest foreseeable, avoidable evil of our times. It's not a matter of never forgiving, but of never being able to trust them to know or do what's right.

Electability is nonetheless important, as I believe it is morally wrong to vote for someone who hasn't a prayer of nomination; hence no matter how much I might like their positions, Kucinich and Sharpton are simply not options. Which leaves Clark and Dean, maybe. And yet the bottom line is how capable a nominee and president one's candidate will turn out to be, and here the morally obtuse or corrupt Kerry and Edwards look much better than either Clark or Dean.

Finally, a criterion that eliminates all my options: arrogance. Dean, Clark, and Edwards have all announced that they reject being anyone's running mate. This suggests to me two things: they think they are too good to be VP (despite some very slim resumes) and their loyalty is to themselves and not the party. I was already bothered by Edwards's apparent belief that a second term in the Senate is beneath him. A friend is urging me to vote for him to help insure that he's Kerry's running mate-- but what if he really disdains that opportunity like he says he does?

So, what principles trump the others, and what choice results? I have five days to decide. At this point, Clark seems to come closest to the ideal: right about Iraq, electable--maybe, plausibly presidential, and no more arrogant than the rest of them. But I can see myself voting for Dean, Kerry, or Edwards if persuaded that some criteria outweigh others.

CYD

[smiley_glad_hands]

1. Clark is the Man

who is best prepared to lead this country. Period, no ifs, ands, or buts----Clark is the Man.

[aquanut]

2. Honest question

and it's directed to the general DU population...

Has any presidential candidate ever said "yeah, I'd accept the VP nod" during the primary season?

Isn't that akin to saying "I'm not really in this 100%"?

If this question is considered thread-jacking I rescind the question.

[SangamonTaylor]

4. conceding to VP would destroy your support

and completely undermine your campaign. It's called politics. Bush Sr. did the same when he ran against Reagan.

[pezcore64]

8. ....

yup
and for once i agree with Bob Dole...
on primary nite he was talking about how you cant turn down a call from your party leader asking you to be VP. its a big responsibility and an honor and to turn it down would be to turn down the american people.

so yeah, i think whoever is asked to be VP will be the VP.

[Meldread]

3. I'm from Virginia too...

All I can really do is tell you what I did and how I came to the conclusion to stick with Dean.

Like you I like Kucinich and Sharpton but won't vote for them because I don't believe that they can win in the general election. Like you that left me with two options: Dean and Clark. Ultimately I chose Dean because of his experience as Governor, his willingness to stand up for what is right, and because I believe he can move our party in the right direction. I respect Clarks record as a General, but without political experience it makes him extremely vulnerable in the General Election. Dean's run tough campaigns before (although this one is perhaps the toughest yet) and knows how to deal with slime balls like Rove.

Ultimately I can see Dean beating Bush in the General Election because he is strong were Bush is strong and even strong where Bush is weak.

For example Bush is weak on his record. Dean is strong on his record -- he stands by it and it reflects well on him. He's also the only candidate that can say he has had executive experience -- experience in balancing budgets, working with healthcare (both as a doctor and providing it as governor), creating jobs, etc. We need someone with that type of experience right now.

Bush is often seen as a stand-up kind of guy. The type of guy who isn't going to be pushed around -- having this image is important when confronted with terrorists threats. Dean also has that type of image.

Bush was seen (at least in 2000) as the average Joe. The guy you can go to the bar with and have a few drinks -- Howard Dean also has that same appeal.

Ultimately all Bush can run on is his image, but Howard Dean carries a similar image and actually has substance to back it up. We also know that Howard Dean isn't afraid to stick it to Bush when he thinks Bush is wrong. We *NEED* someone like that.

I admire Edwards ability to invoke compassion on crowds and Clarks record as General, but ultimately when it came down to who I thought could beat Bush and who most closely represented my views Howard Dean was the obvious choice.

[smiley_glad_hands]

5. You do realize that Dean will never carry

Va or any other southern state---he is unelectable in the south.

[Meldread]

7. Dean could win VA.

It won't be easy, but I think enough people are fed up with Bush that they'd vote for him. He's targeting issues that (at least the Republicans and Independents that I know) care about the most.

Still, I'll agree it won't be easy. Although it'd be impossible for Kerry -- which is why the talk from his campaign suggests that he plans to just ignore the south (with perhaps the exception of Florida). That'd be a real shame; at least Dean has plans to do the best he can down south. Like he has said people down here care about jobs, healthcare, and the economy too. The only thing going against him the is whole issue of gays and his support of Civil Unions, but most people who feel strongly about that are voting Republican anyway.

[DjTj]

6. I'm also in Virginia, and I encourage you to...

...see Edwards speak:

http://winwithedwards.com/cals/VA/calendar.php

John Edwards has chosen not to run for the Senate and has claimed he will not accept the VP slot because the press has constantly tried to suggest to paint him as not a serious candidate. He has been forced to prove to everyone that he really is running for President.

Whether or not he will accept a VP offer is something to be decided later (and I think he will).

He also wouldn't have left his seat if Erskine Bowles weren't there to take it. That seat will stay Democratic easily.

Also, read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/01/19_edwards.html