some people have a wrong impression of the group Sen. Obama was addressing

[Douglas Carpenter]

The conference was organized by Sojourners - a group that is actually fairly left-wing on foreign policy and economic issues; and moderate to moderately-liberal on social issues.

(BTW I am neither a religious person or particularly a big fan of Sen. Obama)




Sojourners are the group they were speaking to:

Link for Sojourners

http://www.sojo.net /

link for Sojourners Magazine:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.home

Interview with Rev. Jim Wallis (founder and leader of Sojourners) on Democracy Now - link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/26/1355204


"The Rev. Tim Ahrens shared Wallis' dismay: "The faith of Jesus Christ has become such a violent and violating faith in the religious right," he contended. Ahrens is the founder of We Believe Ohio, a group of 300 clergy members dedicated to promoting social justice."

"Many Sojourner supporters didn't hesitate to call right-wingers "bible thumpers" and "fanatics," and they criticized the Bush administration for not helping the poor. They gave Obama thunderous applause when he proclaimed his support for separation of church and state and giving teenagers access to contraception. " link:
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/nation/14923089.htm

___________________________

The founder of Soujorners Rev. Jim Wallis wrote a now famous book:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060558288.01.__PIst.arrow,TopLeft,-1,-17_SCTHUMBZZZ_.jpg
God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It

link on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060834471/qid=1151676208/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1846545-3744063?s=books&v=glance&n=283155



.

[JDPriestly]

1. The Sojouners are great.

But, separation of church and state is clearly established by our Constitution. Madison's writings leave no doubt as to that fact. Those of us who do not belong to Christian religions have the right to privacy with regard to our religious beliefs. The Constitution specifically states that there is to be no religious test for government posts. It's the right-wing Christians who need to reach out and touch the Constitution. The rest of us have already reached out far enough.

[Warpy]

2. Wallis is a true voice of reason

when it comes to interpreting those words in red in the New Testament.

The only problem I can see is that they're still pussyfooting around the one word that describes the religious right's agenda: UNCHRISTIAN.

Wallis is doing a great job of waking a lot of people up, though. I was aware of who he is and who the Sojourners are and what they stand for. Obama still sounded like he was pandering.

Dean, on the other hand, clearly was NOT pandering in his CBN appearance.

[Douglas Carpenter]

46. .

[Totally Committed]

3. This is truly useful information...

Thank you.

"God's Politics" by Jim Wallis is definitely a book every Democrat should read.

Though I am not as big a fan of Obama as some, I am truly glad to read this clarification.

TC

[jonnyblitz]

5. I tried to read that book but couldn't get very far with it.

I guess I am too hardcore of an atheist. :shrug: when people start talking god, I don't care if they are progressive or not, my mind just rejects it all. That is one topic I won't budge on. To budge on it for me would be to regress into irrationality (my opinion for me, I don't care what others believe) I guess that makes me narrowminded on this topic and I admit it. Of course I KNOW there are a bazillion wonderful christians out there, I am friends with a few, I just can't read books about it. I also have NO PROBLEMS with anybody reaching out to soujourner type PROGRESSIVE evangelicals BUT I would assume we already have them by now unless they are COMPLETELY oblivious.

I won't make the mistake of assuming all evangelicals are fundies anymore either.

[Totally Committed]

6. At the moment, I am truly anti-organized religion but,

I realize that is not so for everyone. If all Fundamentalist Christians lived like Christ, instead of ramming a totally unwanted social agenda down my throat, I'd have no problem with any of them.

That having been said... I "got" was Wallis was saying in that book, and think it is a message that Democrats should at least read. Not all Christians are the same. Not all Evangelicals are the same. But, all Fundamentalists ARE.

TC

[Douglas Carpenter]

7. frankly I do see your point

In fact I was very bitter against religious people and Evangelicals in particular for a long, long time; having had an experience when I was young that left me totally disillusioned and angry.

However since then I have seen numerous religious people including Evangelicals who really are better people because of their faith. Sometimes I wish I could believe again. But I guess my mind just does not work that way anymore.

But politically speaking those of us who want to build a progressive majority that effectively challenges the ideology of unbridled militarism and unrestrained global capital we have to fight those who try to wrap themselves in the flag. I can think of no larger group of potential allies to this cause.

In the last election only 21% of white Evangelicals voted for Sen. Kerry/31% of regular white church goers in general (about 88% of regular black Evangelical church goers). If we could alter the perception that progressives in general and the progressive wing of the Democratic Party in particular are hostile to Christian ideals (the kindler and gentler Christian ideals) we might be able to bring about a sea change in the political landscape.


.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. I honestly believe that we can create a genuine progressive majority

if we can tap into the very large group of religious people who are motivated more by the kinder gentler side of Christianity and other religions for that matter. After all most black Evangelical Americans vote Democratic by more than 80% and they are generally speaking on the left-end of the political spectrum particularly on economic issues in spite of the reality that many are socially conservative on other issues.

I believe that if this can be done we could possibly have not just a Democratic majority but a genuinely progressive Democratic majority that can challenge the ideology of militarism and unbridled capitalism.

If we don't do it. I don't see us having a chance.

[Clarkansas]

4. There are good religious people out there that are democrats

or potential democrats.

Thanks for the information.

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. anybody want to recommend this thread??

I just think this information is important in order to correct some common miss-perceptions.

[sandnsea]

9. ok

There's a recommend.

They are a good group. I used to get their emails, I'll have to see what happened with that.

Obama gave a 90% awesome speech. What makes me mad about it is that the separation of church and state was defined way back when, we bring the values of religion into the public arena, NOT the doctrine. Government stays out of the way of religion so it can flourish and theoretically instill values into our citizens. We bring those values to the legislative process to care for our citizens, not to create religious programs. Education, housing, food, health, environment, down to local parks and libraries - we managed to implement all this good without directly funding religious programs for over a hundred years.

If the religious right hadn't hijacked the political process, we'd still be doing that and be proud of the progress we made and pushing forward into the future. Too many years of Reaganism has convinced too many Americans that there was something immoral about government helping people, when the truth is government took the job because religious groups had actually failed. When he talks about religious groups helping alcoholics and addicts, it's a joke. The reason there are treatment centers is because religion failed. The reason there are public schools is because protestants were afraid Catholic schools were going to take over. The reason there is public health is because religious hospitals couldn't meet all the need. It goes on and on.

Democrats don't need to push the religious fallacies of Reaganism, Democrats need to correct the errors that the Falwells and Robertsons have inflicted on us. We were making real progress in the 80's. When Clinton chose to use the language of the right to make changes in welfare, he validated every ridiculous thing they said about liberal programs all through the 80's. Obama is doing more of the same today, whether he realizes it or not.

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. thanks -- that's cool

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. anymore??

The conference that Sen. Obama, Sen. Clinton and Gov. Dean was speaking at was sponsored by the Sojourners movement.

Sojourners are actually fairly left-wing on foreign policy and economic issues; and moderate on social issues.




Sojourners are the group they were speaking to:

Link for Sojourners

http://www.sojo.net /

link for Sojourners Magazine:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.home

Interview with Rev. Jim Wallis (founder and leader of Sojourners) on Democracy Now - link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/26/1355204


"The Rev. Tim Ahrens shared Wallis' dismay: "The faith of Jesus Christ has become such a violent and violating faith in the religious right," he contended. Ahrens is the founder of We Believe Ohio, a group of 300 clergy members dedicated to promoting social justice."

"Many Sojourner supporters didn't hesitate to call right-wingers "bible thumpers" and "fanatics," and they criticized the Bush administration for not helping the poor. They gave Obama thunderous applause when he proclaimed his support for separation of church and state and giving teenagers access to contraception. " link:
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/ne

[donsu]

10. NO religion in govt. - no prayers in public school

whether the religiously insane are rabid neo cons or mild believers - they still believe a fantasy

what with global warming we need leaders that live in reality

(like that woman believer, on TV flood news, that hoped a statue of Mary in her yard would keep the flood from her home)

[blondeatlast]

17. I absolutely believe in the dangfer of global warming,

and I also believe in that "fantasy."

To which group do I belong?

Religiously insane? I'll wear it proudly--in fact, I'll put it in my signature if it would help you...

[donsu]

38. why would that help me?

nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. this is the latest bumper sticker from Sojourners

the group that sponsored the conference Sen. Obama, Sen Clinton and Gov. Dean spoke at:

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. .

[calimary]

15. A good friend of ours just got back from this.

LOVED it. Loved the speakers, including Obama (evidently Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, and Blanche Lincoln also spoke). He said it was actually good that it rained so badly, because there was NO sightseeing. Aw, poo - everybody had to stay indoors and attend the conference the whole time. :evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

16. You know that, I know that, and the thoughtful atheist/agnostic/non-

Christians on DU know that, but there is a hard core group of anti-Christians on here who probably realize it too but can't put their minds around a positive take on Christianity.

To the hard-core anti-Christians on DU, and there are a precious, but very vocal few, what Barack Obama did was almost like speaking to the Ku Klux Klan.

Sojourners is an excellent group that is unafraid to tackle the hypocrisies in the PRACTICE of their faith. That's why I belong.

In addition, most of the Sojourners voting bloc is going to vote Democratic anyway.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Labels like "evangelical" and "Christian," particularly when used

together with "Judeo-Christian values" are synonymous to Crusader and Nazi. For many years now, many of us have been under constant assault by people waiving their Bibles and crosses at us. Many of us have been personally or professionally harmed by "Christian" people that hate us because of our religious beliefs (or lack thereof), our sexual orientation (perceived or real), our gender, and other factors.

Interestingly enough, there are religious groups that are not seen as under the label "Christian" even though they are, the Quakers, Pax Christi, and Pastors for Peace come to mind.

Just as Bush has brought shame to America, many Christian leaders have done the same to Christianity. It is going to take generations to undo the damage that Bush has done to our nation. Perhaps it is going to take just as long to repair the damage that Jihadism has done to the three major monotheistic religions.

The Obama story had him chiding Democrats for not speaking about faith and the failure to connect with "evangelicals." He made no distinction between the Christian Jihadist that we have come to hate and loath, and the Sojourners that you and Douglas Carpenter have been posting about.

I guess our anger and hatred at those that have attacked us sometimes prevents many of us from hearing the softer voices of those that follow the Jesus of the Gospels rather than the Jesus of the Republicans.

[blondeatlast]

19. The power elite have pretty much prostituted everything in this nation.

Religion, government, the press, education, ad nauseum.

I certainly understand the mistrust (or at least I like to think I do).

They've made us all so angry that we often can't see past the anger, which works so well to their advantage.

The thing about this is that Sojourners is a left-leaning group so Obama didn't need to make that distinction for that particular audience. But the press managed to obscure Sojourners history pretty conveniently. To the press, they were simply an "evangelical group"--and that lack of distinction has made for some pretty heated threads right here on DU.

Your point is well taken regrarding the Jihadists of all stripes, though. Because they are so vocal, they get more press (regardless of whether it's the NYT or al-Jazeera, I make no distinction really), so they become even more vocal and angry, generating more press, and so on. The power elite of religion thus works hand in hand with the press and the government and we all get screwed in the end.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Part of the problem, IG, is that the right wingers and fundies

have spent about 25 years telling their followers and the general public that only THEY are Christian. They've said things like, "Catholics and Christians," which gets Catholics REALLY upset.

It's not surprising that people outside Christianity should come to think the same thing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. I was tempted to change my title to "Should Sen. Obama have addressed

far-left fringe group that advocates a weak-on-defense blame-America -first foreign policy and wants the government to give handouts to illegal immigrants?"

I know some people and frankly including myself have had negative experiences with some Evangelicals -- but some people are just plane being narrow minded.

[Lars39]

31. I do not agree with his comments about the pledge of allegiance.

It was wrong of him to curry favor at agnostics' and atheists' expense.

[blondeatlast]

32. I'll give you that one, truly I will, but is that what all this

fuss is about? That single line?

Sojourners is a group reinforcing most progressive values and willing to tackle the controversies surrounding issues that the membership disagrees about.

He was speaking to a group that already votes overwhelmingly left, even if they are often uncomfortable with gay rights and abortion.

And I will say that the press and some-self serving interests have blown the entire speech way out of proportion to what he actually was saying, IMHO.

We on the left tend to nitpick our own's words way more than we do what's said on the right, it seems.

I'm not a Barack Obama fan, fwiw. It just seems this controversy is manufactured somehow--by whom, I don't know, but it seems to have worked right here at DU.

[Lars39]

33. It showed that he is willing to brush off a good portion of the population

as negligible. Big mistake.

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. I would recommend listening to his speach or reading the transcript

I cannot for the life of me as an agnostic-secularist myself understand how his speech could brush off anyone

listen online - link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060629#4

read transcript - link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=C&NewsID=5454

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. just one more recommend.........pleeeeeaze

[IndianaGreen]

22. Sorry

but I already did recommend #3.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. well thanks for # 3 and btw I do know what you mean...in post # 7

I kind of alluded to my own experience

[Douglas Carpenter]

25. just to give you an idea of the thinking of Sojourners please check

check this link to see the kind of issues these American Evangelicals of Sojourners are involved in -- this is definitely not the Pat Robertson type:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_archives&mode=current_opinion&article=CO_031217

[Douglas Carpenter]

26. .

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. /

[AtomicKitten]

29. from GD a few days ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1528922

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. thanks for the full text of Sen. Obama's speech

[intheflow]

34. Thanks for posting this.

I hadn't been following this too closely because I was sure they had been speaking to progressive Christians, not narrow RW fundies. It does my heart good to see a thread started that spells that out. Sojourners is awesome--and not all Christians are evil!

:kick: and recommended.

[Douglas Carpenter]

37. you are more than welcome

I really do believe that the rise of the religious left has the potential to totally change the political landscape in a very positive way -- not only by swaying more votes -- but by reminding even us agnostic/secularist of some moral foundation to the progressive cause

[Douglas Carpenter]

35. Stream/listen to Sen. Obama and Rev. Wallis's speach online

link:



http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060629#4



.

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. fact and figures about belief and church attendance and evangelicals

Kerry still received 33% of the vote of regular church goers in 2004 and 21% of white evangelicals/86% of black church goers (mostly evangelicals). In 2000 Gore received 30% of white evangelical votes/91% of black regular church goers (mostly evangelicals).

It has really only been since 1980 that evangelical vote has become reliably Republican.

According to a recent Gallup poll 94% of the population believes in God/80% are certain and only 1% are convinced atheist it is hard to imagine that a progressive majority can be built without the support of lots and lots of religious people.

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. .

[wiley]

39. Great thread and discussion.

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. thanks

[wiley]

59. You're Welcome!

[skeeters2525]

40. Thank You

Thank You, Douglas. And I really didn't pay attention to the group. Glad to see all DU members aren't reactionary jerks.

I have subscribed to Sojo for sometime. Don't agree with all. But why the hell should we. We really need to get over this DemFacsism and reach out to other groups.

That is if we really care about winning. Or is this just some circle jerk.

All evangelicals are not the same as Dobson and Falwell. Some may actually be pissed at the Bush lies. We can take our message to them and maybe win some races. In the South, escpecially, a lot do get their political messages at church meet-ups. Why not try to win some.

Kerry lost, or nearly lost, the Catholic votes. This was because Republicans went to the churches to scare the bejesus out of them. In some cases it probably worked. Catholics were ususally a base you could depend on.

Seems like we ignored them and now we are paying for it.

Barak has an idea. Agree or disagree, I can tell as someone from Illinois. He is no Joe Lieberman.

[Douglas Carpenter]

41. you are more than welcome

you know I was just thinking; if there is one group of Americans who could critique American foreign policy without being hit with the usual recriminations about being anti-American or being party of the left-wing blame-America-first gang--It would be progressive American Evangelicals. They are in a position to contribute to the discussion and critique and be heard in a way that most of us secularist like myself just cannot do with impunity.

[calimary]

43. Well, I gotta tell ya, our friend who attended this said it was wonderful

and refreshing and renewing, because the place was FULL of people who thought like he does. He's VERY progressive, anti-war, and while a man of deep faith, has a very clear-eyed view of what abominations have been shoved down our throats in the Name of Christ. He said it was really terrific to see so much agreement, ALL OVER the conference, with his (and, for that matter, OUR) way of thinking. He's a religious man, but not in-yer-face about it, and he has complained many times about what the fundie wackos are doing to blight the Person and the teachings of Jesus. In fact, we've joked with each other about how we're still searching for the passage in the New Testament wherein Our Lord tells the crowd - "Blessed are the warmakers."

[Solon]

44. I don't like sectarian political groups...

Don't care if they are left wing, right wing, whatever. Deal with your religion in church, etc. but don't meld your ministry with your politics so brazenly, at least be non-sectarian about it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. From Sojourners Mag:Young adults confront globalization and violence

by Tabitha Knerr

link for Sojourners Magazine:


http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.home


"Tabitha Knerr participated in this week's Pentecost conference along with more than 200 other "emerging leaders" - young people whom Sojourners and Call to Renewal are nurturing and mentoring as the next generation of activists.

In an ecumenical climate where mainline Protestants are rarely seen in the same room as conservative evangelicals or Catholics, Christian young adults are envisioning a new way of doing ecumenism. A grassroots group of concerned young adults from across the religious and political spectrum have been gathering and gaining momentum to host the third annual Young Adult Ecumenical Forum. The diversity of traditions and perspectives at each year's event have led to a creative tension among the participants.

"We didn't always agree, that's for sure, but I respect the passion and conviction that each person brings to the discussion," said Samantha Warren of the Christian and Missionary Alliance. "Besides," Alex Feldt of the ELCA added, "How can you expect to learn anything when everyone is spouting the same opinion?" "

read full article:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=C&NewsID=5440


.

[iconoclastNYC]

48. Obama: attack the right not the left

I dont expect my Democratic elected officials to criticize the party publicly.

Conduct unbecoming a Senator if you ask me. He'll never get a dime of support from me.

[Douglas Carpenter]

49. Sen. Obama is not my favorite Senator either

[Douglas Carpenter]

51. ..

[Douglas Carpenter]

50. .

[Douglas Carpenter]

52. ..

[Douglas Carpenter]

53. listen online to Sen. Obama's speech or read the transcript

I know there has been a lot of controversy..I just hope everyone either listens for themselves or reads the transcript for themselves.

listen online -- link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060629#4

read transcript -- link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=C&NewsID=5454

[Wisconsin Dem.]

Jim Wallis

Is one of the few Religious leaders I ahve real respect for

[Douglas Carpenter]

62. ....

[Wisconsin Dem.]

Jim Wallis

Is one of the few Religious leaders I ahve real respect for

[Douglas Carpenter]

57. Jim Wallis' interview on Democracy Now -- listen-watch-or read

transcript.

link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/26/1355204


Sojourners are actually fairly left-wing on foreign policy and economic issues; and moderate on social issues.


Sojourners are the group they were speaking to:

link for Sojourners


http://www.sojo.net /

link for Sojourners Magazine:


http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.home

Interview with Rev. Jim Wallis (founder and leader of Sojourners) on Democracy Now - link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/26/1355204

_____________

[Wisconsin Dem.]

54. Jim Wallis

Is one of the few Religious leaders I ahve real respect for

[Wisconsin Dem.]

Jim Wallis

Is one of the few Religious leaders I ahve real respect for

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. Jim Wallis: Poverty is not a family value

link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060629#3

"We covenant together here, before God and our neighbors, to work and pray for a new America:
An America where everyone able to work is working and able to support a family.
An America where those who are unable to work are compassionately supported.
An America where no child lives in poverty and goes to bed at night hungry.
An America where every person has a roof over their head.
And an America that opens its heart and its budget to our neighbors around the world. "

read full article - link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060629#3

[Wisconsin Dem.]

55. Jim Wallis

Is one of the few Religious leaders I have real respect for

[Douglas Carpenter]

56. indeed he's a good man

About Jim Wallis - founder and leader of Sojourners



"Jim Wallis is a Christian leader for social change. He is a speaker, author, activist, and international commentator on ethics and public life. Wallis was a founder of Sojourners - Christians for justice and peace - more than 30 years ago and continues to serve as the editor of Sojourners magazine, covering faith, politics and culture. In 1995, Wallis was instrumental in forming Call to Renewal, a national federation of churches, denominations, and faith-based organizations from across the theological and political spectrum working to overcome poverty.

Wallis speaks at more than 200 events a year and his columns appear in the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, and other major newspapers. His most recent book is God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It (Harper Collins, 2005). He offers regular commentary and analysis for radio and television and teaches a course at Harvard University on "Faith, Politics, and Society."

In the last several years, Wallis has led more than 250 town meetings, bringing together pastors, civic and business leaders, and elected officials in the cause of social justice and moral politics. Under Wallis' leadership, Call to Renewal has hosted annual Roundtables on Poverty for national religious leaders and successful National Summits. Endorsed initially by a broad cross-section of Christian leaders, Call To Renewal's Covenant and Campaign to Overcome Poverty now has tens of thousands of supporters around the United States.

Jim Wallis was raised in a Midwest evangelical family. As a teenager, his questioning of the racial segregation in his church and community led him to the black churches and neighborhoods of inner-city Detroit. He spent his student years involved in the civil rights and antiwar movements. While at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Illinois, Jim and several other students started a small magazine and community with a Christian commitment to social justice which has now grown into Sojourners whose combined print and electronic media have a readership of more than 100,000 people.

In 1979, Time magazine named Wallis one of the "50 Faces for America's Future." His books include Faith Works (2000), The Soul of Politics: A Practical and Prophetic Vision for Change (1994), Who Speaks for God? A New Politics of Compassion, Community, and Civility (1996), Call to Conversion (1981).

Jim lives in inner-city Washington, D.C. with his wife, Joy, and their sons, Luke and Jack."

For interview requests, contact Jack Pannell:
[e-mail]
tel. [phone] "

link:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=special.display&item=050111_godspolitics#bio


.

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. Budgets are Moral Documents -- a Sojourners campaign

link:

http://go.sojo.net/campaign/reject_the_bush_budget


"letter to Congress: (From Sojourners)

As a person of faith who believes we have a moral imperative to overcome poverty, I agree with Senator Arlen Specter: The president's budget proposal is "scandalous."

Budgets are moral documents. They give a very real picture of what our nation's priorities and values are. Cuts to low- and middle-income families who are empowered by programs such as food stamps, Medicaid, housing assistance for low-income seniors and persons with disabilities, and cuts to community social service programs - while at the same time increasing the deficit by slashing taxes for people who make more than $1 million per year by $600 billion - are out of touch with my values. I hope they are out of touch with your values, too.

I understand that in the coming weeks you and others in Congress will be designing your own budget proposals. As a person of faith who cares deeply about empowering people in poverty, I will be keeping a close eye on how you and your colleagues design and evaluate these proposals.

Thank you very much for your time, and I will be keeping you and your colleagues in my prayers.

Sincerely "

[Douglas Carpenter]

63. .