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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:07 PM
Original message
Its not "your money"; its "our house".
Its not "your money"; its "our house".
by arendt

One of the most common bunko games in politics today is to pretend that the complexities of continent-sized countries are nothing but the details of everyday life writ large. For example, we are told to treat the budget as if it were a big personal savings account, ignoring all the issues of money creation, currency exchange rates, unfunded future obligations, and so on. This is the same kind of word game that laissez-fairy tale economists use when they claim that businesses in the marketplace are “nothing but order takers” - pray tell, then, why do large companies have “strategic” planning departments?

George Bush was playing big-time bunko when he demanded tax cuts “because its your money”. This is like the guy who buys a used car, gets in an accident driving it off the lot, and wants his money back. Sorry. You bought something tangible. “Your money” ceased to be fungible; it became a “fixed asset”. Of course, you can get your money back for the tangible wreckage, but all you will get is the market price of the scrap.

The point that is deliberately missed by the conmen pitching the “your money” racket is that the national government is not just a big cash drawer; it is machinery for producing “social goods”. As machinery, as a functioning assembly line, it produces many more social goods than individuals could produce alone. It is Adam Smith’s pin factory; but producing, instead, certified teachers or safe drugs or clean air. But, without functioning machinery, raw material simply cannot be converted into product at the high rate we are used to, or cannot be converted at all.

The reactionary, Repeal the New Deal crowd has (so far just barely) failed to dismantle the assembly line; so they have decided to try to rip off or damage a few key parts. They figure that if they can steal the tires or the fuel injectors, or drain the water from the radiator, they can turn the government into scrap. Then people will agree to sell their car, which has been deliberately sabotaged, for pennies on the dollar - and, coincidentally, to give the proceeds of the sale to the super-rich recipients of Bush’s serial tax cuts.

Opposition to Bush’s asset-stripping racket is the essence of classic conservatism: the honest valuation of assets. Just as the stock of a business sells for a multiple of earnings (in an honest
market, about equal to 20), the value of the government should be set at a multiple of the services it provides. Then, we can see just how much value (as opposed to money) is being stolen from the non-rich by this racket. The fact is that the non-military goods and services which the government provides to the middle and lower classes are worth much more to those classes than the scrap value of the government assets that would be liquidated by a shutdown or privatization of government services. Such an analysis could be done on the privatization of the National Parks, along with the granting of mining and timber rights on government lands for prices that would have been cheap 100 years ago.

To switch analogies from houses to cars, the demand by the rich to liquidate functioning public assets is akin to a group of people who have taken out a joint mortgage on a house. One of these buyers (who happens to be a banker) has decided that he doesn’t want to pay the mortgage he helped to negotiate through his own bank. So, he stops paying and goes to his bank demanding that they foreclose on the other, still-paying (but, due to his default, high-risk) tenants, so that the bank can get back “its money”.

Now if a bank officer in the real world tried this swindle, he would land in jail. There are laws in place which force bankers to get rid of foreclosed properties in open auctions within some short time of acquiring them. These laws were written to prevent banks from foreclosing on a pretext and snapping up desirable property for a song.

It is quite clear that the GOP Congress has no intention of pay-as-you-go financing of existing government assets. Its clear that further calls for tax cuts are basically demands to liquidate public assets for a song to the benefit of the rich. Of course, the government has already long since been looted of all its real cash. Reagan and Bush saw to that in the 1980s, running up the biggest deficit in history, crashing the stock market, and overseeing the de-industrialization of America. What they are after now is the basic infrastructure of our national house, the copper plumbing and the windows if you will. They want to get their hands on the Social Security Trust Fund, even though they have been stealing from its non-existent “lockbox” for years with IOUs.

If any GOP conman has the chutzpah to admit what they are doing, he will probably make some argument that the private sector will provide these services more efficiently. First, the private sector will provide a completely different set of social goods. Any good that isn’t profitable (like low-risk pensions or Flood Insurance ) will simply not be produced. We already see the WTO arguing against basic governmental services in their kangaroo courts. Second, it is an empirical fact that privatization has not produced anywhere near enough “ cost savings” (if any at all, when you discount “free riding” and subsidies) to win the efficiency argument. And, finally, there are simply things you do not want to privatize - such as prisons, police, or oversight of banks.

In summary, the next time some bunko politico says “its your money”, tell him “its our house, and you want to foreclose on it.”


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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent post. You have a nice informative way with words.
I have many talents but writing is not one of them.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Recommended
The "it's your money" shit has always annoyed me as well. I always want to say: No, it's our society. I'm reminded of the Seinfeld line: We're trying to have a society here. Nicely rendered, in any case.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. K&R!!!
:kick:
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Good analogy, I disagree on a few points.
Our government isn't the machinery that makes teachers, clean air, etc,: it's the machinery that allows us to make teachers, medicine, and keep our air clean. It's us writ large.

I'm one of the few democrats that seems to think that we could have both a smaller government and a much more just society. And I'll measure government by spending not receipts. I'm sure that we could get by with 1/3d or less the military spending, and most of the social spending, especially the federal social spending, while making our society more just, is in reaction to some inequity elsewhere in our socioeconomic system. If we eliminated those inequities, there'd be little need for that social spending (but not before).

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Its important exactly how you propose to arrive at smaller government
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 08:57 AM by arendt
Have you seen the Jonathan Rauch piece on "Stoking the Beast"?

http://www.jonathanrauch.com/jrauch_articles/2006/05/stoking_the_bea.html

He reviews an argument from the Libertarian Cato Institute that cutting taxes
without cutting spending INCREASES the size of government. It is the
death knell for any intellectual credibility for the death-by-tax-cut
school of New Deal Haters.

----

It is perfectly legitimate to advocate for smaller government with
an HONEST statement of how to do so - which programs to cut, how to
re-arrange the tax burden,etc. That is, to deal with Rauch's argument.

The problem with "its your money" is that it is totally DISHONEST.
Its the standard Bush M.O. - put down a line of bullshit and then
do exactly what you intended on doing in the first place.

---

I do disagree that we could "get by with(out) most of the social spending".
You would close NIH? CDC? the National Laboratories? Believe it or not,
such government-sponsored science for the common good is a social program.
(I know that the Nat Labs do mostly military work, but they do a large
percentage of the pitifully small amount of non-military science in this
brain-forsaken culture.)

arendt
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Information & Technology are Public Goods
once they aren't protected by patents, that is. Such things, by definition, are best provided by government. And again, i'm not advocating cutting anything until it's not needed. I tend to think that if unemployment was <1%, many of our social programs wouldn't be needed.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. "More is different" - Philip Anderson, Nobel Laureate, Physics
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 09:39 AM by arendt
Dr. Anderson (one of the originators of "complexity theory")
is referring to the "emergence" of higher levels of organization
from lower levels in systems with huge numbers of "particles".
For example, viscosity is an emergent property of large numbers
of water molecules. The calculation of viscosity from first
principles of quantum mechanics is way too complex to do.

--------

> it's the machinery that allows us to make teachers, medicine,
> and keep our air clean. It's us writ large.

After thinking more, I do believe that you missed an important
point of my argument. Maybe you didn't; but let me explain my
concern.

Would you say that "you" are one brain cell "writ large"? One
cell "knows" a lot. It knows how to stay alive, how to do its
job, when to divide, when to die, how to fight an infection,
etc." But one cell is simply not big enough to have a conscious
thought, an agenda, free will. Those are "emergent properties".

Likewise, our country is a "super-organism". It has a different
timescale, a different agenda, different reactions to events than
individual citizens. It makes collective decisions about large scale
things, like Civil Rights or the Environment. One citizen can try
to help with his local environment, but if the country decides to cancel
the pollution control laws, the citizen's effort will be for naught.

Right now, our country is like a drunk. The consciousness in charge
is having a great time, while it is poisoning the rest of the body.
Restoring democracy would be like sobering up, listening to your body
and your mind, dealing with your inner demons.

I would be interested in your response.

arendt

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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. arendt,
Do you have a website?
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Sorry, but I don't. Just a journal on DU.
Its a long story. My house is rural, can't get DSL.
Viscerally hate the cable companies, and refuse
to use a cable modem.

So, not enough bandwidth to support a server.
I suppose I could find some hosting service, but
I'm a little paranoid. I'd rather have my own stuff
under my own control.

arendt
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Well, I am a fan, and if you ever do set up a site, I want to know.
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 04:08 PM by tblue37
I have ten of my sites (and 430 articles spread across them!) on Homestead. I have been there for many years, and as an early member I get a great deal from them. (My other sites are for my students rather than for the public.)

I haven't even checked your profile. I should. I am curious about your background. There is more than just intelligence in your posts. I detect some real expertise.

Heh, heh. I checked your profile. Close to the vest. Are you worried about Homeland Security? Maybe I should be more circumspect, too.
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Our country as a super-organism
(Or our world, for that matter) depends, in my view, on a great deal of freedom from beauraucratic intervention.

It's the collective action of millions of free people, working to their own ends, within a framework established by democratic consensus. Or rather, it should be. Unfortunately, as I believe you're pointing out, our democratic methods have been pushed beyond their limits. Even without e-voting, first-past-the post elections have their failings. But regardless, our current political, social, and economic systems fail to account for the full costs of actions. Whether we have a large government or a small one, unless we fix those systems, we'll be in more or less the same spot. But with a large government, we tend to have more and more distortions, subsidies, kickbacks, and opportunities for corruption.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bush is a "bust out" scam artist...has been all his life....
Look at the record (without the Rove re-write) and the pattern is clear. Everything he has been associated with has ended up in the crapper and he and his friends have walked away with millions. He did it to the companies he "ran" (ran into the ground is more exact). He and his pals then used eminent domain to enrich themselves through the Texas Rangers. He then enriched his political cronies with the endowment of Texas University (and we're talking billions of dollars). And now (following the pattern of his father and Ronnie Reagan's administrations) he has emptied the Treasury and left "we the people" holding the bag. They are gangsters in $3000 suits.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Its amazing with all the cop shows and the Sopranos that...
people don't know bunko when they see it. Especially, actual cops.
But, of course, cops have seen nothing but corruption. They know
that they only get to hurt the small fish, and that the big fish
are too well-connected to catch. The rest of America is learning
the cops' lesson as we prosecute the privates at Abu Ghraib while
Rumsfeld goes yammering on.

Maybe we should name Cheney "Hinky Dick". These people are dirty,
hinky, bent.

arendt
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent!

:toast:

People have no appreciation for the Commons. We value individualism so much that we are turning our back on our communities, which provide the infrastructure for us to act as individuals. We are so short sighted. And we could do so much better.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. Much of the scam is running through the states
On one hand, the federal government is pinching the states unmercifully with unfunded mandates -- No Child Left Behind, Medicare, etc. On the other, the states are trying to close their funding gaps by selling off highways and water systems. The linkage is obvious and probably deliberate.

With one thing and another, I've pretty well given up on any hope of reforming the system through changes at the federal level. But the states still offer some hope -- angry as hell, potentially more responsive to citizen concerns, and in need of support and encouragement to keep from selling out.

When I was a kid in the 50's and early 60's, state governments were notoriously corrupt, and putting more power in the hands of the feds was seen as a path to greater honesty, transparency, and effectiveness. Segregation was a particularly blatant example of what seemed to be the superiority of federal control over major issues -- but it was true across the board.

However, now the states -- at least some of them, on some issues -- appear more aware of the problems and demands of the moment than anyone on the federal level. The Republicans know this and are fighting for control on the state level -- see, for example, Miriam Raftery's recent articles at Raw Story about the situation in California:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Schwarzenegger_appoints_controversial_conservatives_to_education_0628.html

The rest of us could use to really get our act together in the states as well.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The Laffer Curve is not esoteric - it is a JOKE, has been from day one...
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 11:49 AM by arendt
A ludicrous, simple-minded cocktail party "bon mot"
that has nothing to do with reality.

As one economist said - I'll agree about the two
endpoints (0%, 100%); but there is nothing linear or
simple about what goes on in the middle of the economy.

> I think we stand to lose the arguement that these are
> tax cuts for the rich, I mean have you really looked
> at who pays the taxes in this country?

The only person you will lose that argument to is a
shill for the rich. Most people will agree that: the
class war is over: the rich started it, and they won.

Its not about absolute dollars; that's short-term, {personal
finance = government finance} bunko thinking. Its about
percentage rates and long-term accumulation. The rich have
so much disposable income that A) they can afford to pay
a higher percent; and B) if they keep it, pretty soon they
will own everything - game (i.e., democracy) over. In case,
you hadn't noticed, they have already bought the media and
the politicians (both parties).

Read the Jonathan Rauch article.

I have no problem with Buffet or Gates. That's not relevant
to what I'm talking about. They are not conmen.

arendt



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Dembo98 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. sounds like ...
you aren't so concerned about government programs as you are about the redistribution of wealth. And you think the government won't screw that up? HA I think stereotyping the rich as Scrooge McDuck is wrong. I don't think they horde their wealth. I think they spend it. Happiness is not being locked in a room with piles of cash. I think that speaks to your unfortunate opionion about the essence of man.
You are quick to act condescending on a few of my points but only answered my points with a couple backhanded comments. Riddle me this Batman, has the federal government seen an increase in tax revenues since the tax cuts? I know nobody can exactly define the Laffer curve but how else to explain tax cuts and revenue windfalls. My bottom line is that we have let government in general expand beyond its Constitutional origins and for someone to say that we should give them more power is hard for me to swallow. Please don't tell me that the machinations of "government" is the cure for everything.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Strawmen, double standards, and libellous labels
you aren't going to last long at DU with those tactics.

You clearly hold the government to a much higher standard than
you hold crooks like Enron, Haliburton, etc.

Your rhetoric seems very anti-government, as opposed to right-
sized goverment.

You accuse me of stereotyping the rich, even as I say I have no
problem with Gates or Buffet. Yet, you stereotype government in
the same paragraph.

> I think that speaks to your unfortunate opionion about the essence of man.

I think this speaks to an unfortunate grandiosity in your ego.
From what orifice are you pulling this crap?


> You are quick to act condescending on a few of my points but only answered
>my points with a couple backhanded comments.

The Laffer Curve was debunked twenty years ago. You have not made yourself
very credible by endorsing it.

> Riddle me this Batman, has the federal government seen an increase in tax revenues
> since the tax cuts?

READ THE RAUCH ARTICLE.

http://www.jonathanrauch.com/jrauch_articles/2006/05/stoking_the_bea.html

The government has seen an INCREASE IN DEBT with each tax cut.


> for someone to say that we should give them more power is hard for me to swallow.

You are delusional if that is what you think I said. I said that people should be honest
about their arguments for taxation. I said nothing about how much power the government
has. You are just dumping a lot of boilerplate rhetoric.


arendt
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Dembo98 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Wow, if I'm not left of you I'm a right winger?
Is that the way this party works now?

>You clearly hold the government to a much higher standard than
>you hold crooks like Enron, Haliburton, etc.

Talk about boiler plate... Enron and Haliburton represent all businesses? c'mon, many of us are employed in corporate America, does that make us all crooks. For the most part i believe that corporate America does try to do the right thing. Hopefully I can be more jaded in the future.

>Your rhetoric seems very anti-government, as opposed to right-
>sized goverment.

Not anti-government, but right now the right size is smaller than where we are. disagree?

And finally, you act like because the government has spent more with the increase in revenues because of the tax cuts, that more revenues are bad. No they aren't bad, the spending is, lets fix that and not just throw our hands up in the air and say more revenue is bad. I'm all for government doing what they've always done in terms of social programs, I fault the bureacracy for bureacracy's sake approach they take.



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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Classic double negative hypothetical smear
> Wow, if I'm not left of you I'm a right winger?

Make up a lie, couch it in an "if" clause, and
smear your opponent.

Attack, attack, shift the subject, never relent...classic tactics

I won't dignify this kind of assault with my time.

goodbye

arendt

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Dembo98 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Hmmm
sorry puddin', but I'm not sure where I lied, and certainly can't find the smear, I thought we discussing this comment. Or is my job to just agree with things and shut up if I don't. I just thought your article was a little off base. Through discussion I try to vet my opinions or make sure someone else has vetted theirs. By doing this we don't build a "strawman" and the positions become more solid. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. Here's my take...
The REASON that money has ANY VALUE is because of the SERVICES that the GOVERNMENT provides.

If I steal ONE DAMN DOLLAR from you, any number of GOVERNMENT resources are available to the hurt party to find remedy.

Those with more dollars get a proportionally higher amount of services (protection, economic managment, etc) from the government.

But people with accumulated wealth (that is, they made so much in year one, didn't have to spend it on food, so they can accumlate it to further years) enjoy greater and greater amounts of protection from the government.

But there is no wealth tax. Even though the government doesn't tax the wealth, it's the wealth (money and other riches) that's being serviced, but year after year of service from the goverment, the wealth pays no tax. Even though a person may not work in years 10,11 & 12, just live off the accumlated wealth, the wealth continues to enjoy all the protections from the government...

So that's why a progressive income tax is FAIR...

Those who are making higher and higher amounts are most likely to accumlate wealth after basic needs, are those who will be using the asset protection services of the government for longer and longer times even though they're not making any current income...

OK, my rant for the day...
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. So true
I read that over 90% of the cases in the non-criminal court system are
filed by corporations and rich people. The court system services those
who can afford to pay for it; but all citizens pay taxes to support the
system.

arendt
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. How on earth were you ever a Rush fan?
Maybe you should do a thread in GD about it.
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Dembo98 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. You make my point
If you think that more and more government is being used and manipulated by "the rich", then lets reduce the size. When did we get so lost that we believe that government "cololectiveism" is the answer.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Good point: workers are taxed to provide services for wealth. n/t
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. An excellent and concise analogy of the present problem
However, the problem with this is it takes a certain level of understanding of the basics of finance to completely understand this post. If you were to explain things like this to Joe GOP, he'd spit on the ground, rub his ass and say, "that's just high fallutin' stuff."

Our challenge is to break this down to a level that can be easily communicated and understood. The message must be completely consistent and repeated ad nauseum.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. Personal analogies are still useful.
The federal debt is impossible to grasp without reducing it to real world terms. YOU owe $28,118.45 on that debt.

That IS your money, and that of your progeny.
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