No Stem Cell Talk in the Senate -- It's Flag-Burning Monday

[Bob Geiger]

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist doesn't want to leave "wedge-issue June" with an 0-2 record -- having failed miserably at banning gay marriage and forcing a repeal of the estate tax -- so he'll try to salvage the month today when he brings Orrin Hatch's (R-UT) S.J.RES.12 to the Senate floor.

S.J.RES.12 , accompanies a similar House resolution and proposes "…an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." Frist has scheduled today for debate on Hatch's bill, with a vote possible as early as Tuesday.

All but four Republican Senators have signed on to cosponsor the bill, which also has a handful of Democratic backers.

"There is no idea or thought expressed by the burning of the American flag that cannot be expressed equally well in another manner," said Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), one of the original cosponsors and one of nine Democrats supporting the measure. "This Amendment would leave both the flag and free speech safe."

Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) and Mary Landrieu (D-LA) have both signed on in the last month, bringing the total number of cosponsors to 59. With that Democratic support, the amendment stands a chance of succeeding, as proponents of the bill say they already have 66 of the 67 votes needed.

"This is the place to stop it," said Ted Kennedy (D-MA), who thinks the measure would have a strong impact on the right to free speech. "This will be one of the most important votes we cast in this session."

The Senate has not voted on such an amendment since 2000, when it got 63 votes and Republicans believe they have enough pro-amendment senators elected since then to get it through this time.

It is important to note that, no matter how ill-advised, the measure doesn't actually ban flag desecration but, as the text of the legislation makes clear, simply gives Congress the authority to issue such edicts in the future.

Still, with everything else facing our country, it is incredible that this and things like banning gay marriage are at the top of the Republican agenda.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) went to the Senate floor on Friday to again plead that the issue of stem cell research, which could someday result in cures to diseases suffered by millions of Americans, be taken up instead of frivolous wedge issues.

"Over the past year, I have repeatedly asked the distinguished majority leader to find time to consider this bill, but my requests have been met by inaction," said Reid Friday morning. "As a result, millions of Americans who could benefit from the cures offered by stem cell research have been forced to wait. They have waited through weeks dedicated to issues such as defining marriage. They have waited through weeks dedicated to issues such as the estate tax. They have waited through weeks dedicated to special interests and the majority's well-connected friends. And next week, I am told we are going to spend it on flag burning."

"They even waited through a Health Week that had nothing to do with getting America health care. How we could have a Health Care Week in the Senate and not consider stem cell research is very difficult for the American people to understand."

Reid cited amazing results recently announced by researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) showing that transplants of embryonic stem cell-derived motor neurons in the spinal cords of paralyzed animals have resulted in partially restored motor functions.

"This work is a remarkable advance that can help us understand how stem cells might be used to treat injuries and disease and begin to fulfill their great promise," said Elias A. Zerhouni, Director of the NIH in a press release . "The successful demonstration of functional restoration is proof of the principle and an important step forward."

However, here's what Reid had to say about the ignorance on stem-cell research shown by George W. Bush and the GOP-controlled Congress:

"Under the President's stem cell policy, Federal research funds can be used only on a small number of these stem cell lines that were created before August 9, 2001. This restriction excludes newer and more promising stem cell lines. These limitations only serve to further delay progress for research that could ultimately benefit a broad range of diseases and conditions.

"A month ago, the 1-year anniversary of the passage of the House bill, Senator Frist once again said he would find time for the Senate to consider stem cell this summer. Summer is here. We have had time for marriage, we have had time for the estate tax, and we are going to have time next week for flag burning. Shouldn't we have time for stem cell legislation? But here we are on June 23. Another month has passed, and still we don't have a commitment to take up stem cell research legislation. That is not acceptable. The news this week that scientists were able to regrow damaged nerves in rats using embryonic stem cells is more evidence of the great promise of this research."

And so it goes, with the Republican agenda continuing to take our country backward, rather than moving forward.

The sickening irony is that Dr. Bill Frist, once a man of medicine, would now rather see someone confined for life to a wheelchair than standing upright and burning a flag.

You can reach Bob Geiger at [e-mail] and read more from him at Democrats.com.

[Olney Blue]

1. How did our country come to this?

"The sickening irony is that Dr. Bill Frist, once a man of medicine, would now rather see someone confined for life to a wheelchair than standing upright and burning a flag."


:cry:

We are wasting time that many people don't have........

[Joe Bacon]

3. The Republicans don't care.

90% of Congressional Republicans don't care about anything because they believe that Jesus is going to rapture them in a week or 2.

We're living with a King of Hearts government where the insane left the asylum and are in charge. Isn't it good to know that life imitates art?

[rhett o rick]

6. I think most Republicans don't care about anything even Jesus, except

power and money. Republican is the party of greeeed.

[w4rma]

33. I think it's worse than that. I think they just do what they are told to

keep their power. I think the vast majority of Republicans in politics are there for the power, only. They believe in nothing except power.



(btw, I don't mention money, because I think it would be redundant to say money and power, since money *is* a form of power)

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. I know why Flag burning is such an important issue in America!

Because the flags are made in China and China owns our national debt. They take it personally when those flags get burned.

Now the Declaration of Independence, that's purely American owned, so Republicans wipe their asses with it all the time.

[slay]

27. Out of all the problems in the world they choose to focus on this BULLSHIT

Fuck them I will burn a goddamn flag if I want to. Our congress is TOTALLY WORTHLESS and shame on the Dems for not calling out the Republican scumbags for wasting the country's time. I'm saddened and sickened by the whole thing. :mad: :(

[babylonsister]

2. The lack of any stem cell legislation underlines the repug

priorities for me. Here's a proven scientific breakthrough that could help so many people, yet the repugs chose to ignore it for political reasons. That's beneath contempt imo. People are dying while the repugs dance around.

Support Stem Cell Research
The Life It Saves Could Be Your Own

[necso]

4. I can't seem to find any definitions of

"physical desecration" and "the flag of the United States" attached to the legislation.

Would a piece of paper with a few (appropriately colored) stars and stripes qualify as such a flag? And how about a flag-like piece of cloth that was wrong in only one detail?

Would accidently spilling a copy of coffee on such a piece of paper qualify as physical desecration? Or perhaps flying a badly torn, faded and dirty plastic "flag" on the window of one's car?

If, indeed, this legislation lacks specifics, then it's quite a reflection on the state of politics in this country.

And what it says is that only form, not function, matters.

...

Your links don't seem to work.

[Canuckistanian]

10. What about writing on a flag?

[Jacobin]

37. well, we need to set up an entire new enforcement division

In the US for just this kind of law breaking



:eyes:

[marmar]

5. Followed by a debate next week: The Attack on the 4th of July....

And quite frankly I'm embarassed by the Dems who've signed on.
"There is no idea or thought expressed by the burning of the American flag that cannot be expressed equally well in another manner," said Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), one of the original cosponsors and one of nine Democrats supporting the measure. "This Amendment would leave both the flag and free speech safe."
Who cares? Unpopular speech is still free speech, isn't it? DINOanne should be too ashamed to ever go back to the Bay Area after a statement like that.
Here and abroad, things are going to hell in the handbasket, and this is all they've got to talk about before their recess? And who's going to police this - are they going to grant money to create flag-burning task forces at police departments across the country?
What a f..king farce!

[LibDemAlways]

18. I am so disappointed and disgusted that

Dino Dianne had no meaningful primary opponent to let people who don't pay much attention to politics know that by re-electing her, they are getting repuke lite. Her primary vote total slipped by 11 points, so some people have caught on, but not nearly enough.

[rhett o rick]

7. Great post, but I have one comment. The failure in the Senate of

the Gay Marriage amendment was a victory for the Neocons. Many voted against it. The Neocons don't care a single bit about gays or gay marriage except to use the issue for distraction and to divide the Country. They want the controversy more than the legislation. If it passed, they would have to find another issue. This way they made it look good because they tried but failed because of the bad democrats. Now, they tell their base, they will have to work harder than ever to fight the democrats.

[bfranky]

8. Marching proudly backwards to our future

Yep, they are denying progress and taking us backwards to a happier era, although I'm not sure exactly when that era was. There's a hilarious satire of all this: "The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and Regulations Manual." Check it out at www.homelanddecency.com.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi bfranky!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Lerkfish]

9. ya know, in any OTHER profession, if you had employees who consistently

avoided their ACTUAL work to goof off on frivolous activity that accomplished nothing, they'd be out on their asses in no time.

[MorningGlow]

11. Oh yeah, this sure is important

:sarcasm:

Maybe they can scare us more if they can prove that gay Muslims are the ones doing the flag burning.

Wake me if anybody sees any sign that our representative government is tackling the issues the American citizens are really interested in.

[shain from kane]

12. Democrats should counter Frist with the Cat Protection Act of 2006. n/t

[brainshrub]

25. Hey, why can't I burn a cat - FOR FREEDOM!!!???

eom

[shain from kane]

34. Chinese restaurants can, but it's not because of freedom.

It's for $1.95 per pound, and all the rice you can eat.

[Deep13]

14. To prove desecration,...

...wouldn't we first have to prove that the flag is sacred, that is of divine origin?

When was the last time someone burned a flag in this country as a protest? This doesn't strike me as a problem that requires any solution.

[banjoterror]

17. Me...

OK so this may be trite. Maybe it's silly and sophomoric. The flag is not sacred, it's a piece of cloth. I don't even find the American flag to be that aesthetically pleasing. The japanese or old soviet flags are WAY cooler. But I burn a couple of flags a year. I do it just because there are raving nutjobs in the government and population at large who want me to be legally barred from the right to do so (I burned my first flag years ago when I heard they were trying to pass a flag burning amendment). I have major issues with having any material object being sacrosanct. My grandpappy and so many others fought in WW2 and other wars not to protect a cloth, but a way of life... or something. i don't really buy that kind of patriotic bilge anyway. I'm fairly certain that people have never gone to war FOR THE FLAG. For the ideals people say are symbolized or implied by the flag... maybe. But not for the flag. And if they are then they are very misguided and I intend to set them straight... by burning flags every chance I get.

[Deep13]

20. Constitution is way more important.

That is supposed to be the foundation of the country. Nevertheless, I do find the USA flag to be aesthetically pleasing. Contrasty colors and geometric patterns rather than pictures of actual things or tiny scrawls of writing. I agree about the Japanese flag, but have always found the Soviet flag to be rather unimaginative artistically.

Favorite flag: Arizona

Least favorite: Saudi Arabia. If your flag is going to be all words, one might as well just post a sign.

[brainshrub]

26. Agree, the US flag is aesthetically pleasing.

I also like the flag of Israel, Canada and Argentina.

[shain from kane]

21. The Hatfield and McCoy Feud started over a pig. Stranger things have

happened.

And how many stories have you read, especially from the Civil War, where soldiers have risked their lives or died to preserve the colors.

>>>"I'm fairly certain that people have never gone to war FOR THE FLAG. For the ideals people say are symbolized or implied by the flag... maybe. But not for the flag.">>>

From the internets ---

"As legends go, the first recorded instance of violence in the feud occurred after an 1878 dispute about the ownership of a hog."

[zulchzulu]

15. The Constitutional Fraidy Cat Bill

It's too bad the Repugs hate the Constitution and the First Amendment. They need a hot, tall can of dissent whoopass in the fall.

[tavalon]

16. Those stupid, stupid asswipes

Remind me again why we elected them! What a waste of air these people are. I suppose there isn't anything more important they can be doing with their time in Congress? :eyes:

Those people are so pathetic.

[LibDemAlways]

19. It's too bad the founding fathers didn't write

a "vote of no confidence" into the Constitution as a way for the people to get rid of idiots who refuse to work on their behalf. The system in place now - big money buys election and officeholder, beholden to special interests, ignores the needs of the voters while promoting meaningless legislation or legislation favorable to his corporate donors - is hopelessly broken.

This flag burning stuff is bullshit.

[FighttheFuture]

31. You mean like CA has... That worked so swell!!

Screw the electric system via buddies at Enron, bring Ahnold on board, bad mouth Grey Davis while bankrolling a sham recall... yup. That was great!!

Hmmm... seems like the founders may be smarter than we realize!

[LibDemAlways]

39. I admit that was terrible, but it also had a lot to do with

an increased vehicle registration tax kicking in while Gray was in office. The repukes and the media joined forces to oust him and they had the perfect candidate in Ahnold - with his Hollywood "star" power. That was by no means a situation where the people took matters into their own hands.

I still think if the government is failing to serve the people's interests, there ought to be a mechanism to replace them - without having to wait until the next election cycle when the damage might, by then, be irreparable. Witness the chimp.

[stevietheman]

22. Read: Feinstein, our master, tells us what "free" speech is acceptable

Dianne Feinstein can go straight to hell if she thinks she can tell WE THE PEOPLE what speech is allowable and which is not.

That's all I have to say.

[Hatalles]

23. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." nt

[brainshrub]

24. The problem is that they are not going far enough.

The Republicans need to combine issues. For example, I suggest a constitutional amendment banning gay married illegal Mexican immigrant flag burning.

As you can see from the following cheaply-photoshoped image, it's a huge problem:

[shain from kane]

35. Mexican hat dances on flags are so gay. Should be banned. n/t

[Silent3]

28. Helping to slit their own throats

The Constitutional stupidity of the issue aside, what about the strategic stupidity for a Democrat to support the flag amendment?

If this bill passes, Republicans get a giant piece of red meat to throw to rabid right-wing voters in November. They'll make sure there are ballot measures in every state for voters to express support for their own state's passage of the amendment, and just like with gay marriage, they'll tilt the polls in their own favor with the extra Republican turnout.

[LostInAnomie]

29. Feinstein and the other cowardly Dems can go to hell...

... if they vote for this shit.

"There is no idea or thought expressed by the burning of the American flag that cannot be expressed equally well in another manner," Who the fuck is she to decide how I or anyone else wishes to express themself? My rights aren't to be thrown away just because a few worthless fucking cowards are too scared to stand up to election year posturing!

What's next? An amendment declaring it illegal to say anything negative about the war effort? The government? The Congress? The President?

Fuck those cowards who are scared to protect our rights. I hope they break their necks on the slippery slope they're creating.

[The Wizard]

32. Will a Senator

propose an Amendment that requires all flags be
made of fire proof material, thus ending this stupid election year
debate forever. Certainly our legislators have real issues to debate.
The flag represents what this nation stands for. It's a piece of cloth
with colored stars and stripes. If the colors of the stripes were
reversed would that be a flag? If the stars were triangles would that
be a flag. To some it would be, while to others it wouldn't. There
would be endless court challenges until the Amendment was repealed.
The flag has stood on its own since the nation's inception. An
Amendment to protect it says our flag, and by extension our country,
is weak.
The correct way to dispose of a flag is to burn it. Who determines
when a flag is to be disposed: the owner? the flag police? the
manufacturer? a government commission? Joseph Pujol? Who?
One of Hitler's first edicts was to outlaw flag burning. We are above
that. But for how long is the real question.
I know my Congressman will support the Amendment, but we disagree on
several issues. I will support him because he effectively delivers the
goods to his district as a minority member.
Can anyone cite the last flag burning incident that didn't involve a
drunk with matches.

[starroute]

36. Flag-burners

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060615/480/62dfdb6ac5594f2680549c0d12582824/print;_ylt=AsEERFzrbeVdL4qifUVY2PdsaMYA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bXNtMmJ2BHNlYwNzc3M-

[PATRICK]

38. Let's push this tack

Several prominent Dems have signed on to this, accomplishing several practical things(regardless of the disgust this ludicrous exploitation engenders). First it gets passed and out of the way with some dem support. this deflates and abbreviates its short and long term effects as a foghorn(fog spewing with the noise) distraction for November. The prominent Dems also seem convinced they themselves will profit personally from taking one for the team. This is typical good sense political strategy.

Next Reid parallels, or tries to, this waste of time with real legislation of crisis and benefit. This will not get fair play and the Dems signing on blunt the showdown aspect. You win some and lose some but this is unfortunately what we are reduced to.

Now us. Instead of writing bitterly or satirically to the Dem flag protectors as if they were the GOP nutcase distracters, lets push them to do what Reid is attempting. Which they are likely doing anyway.
Shorten and dramatize your speeches on the subject drastically, harshly to give this message: "OK you have surrounded the cloth with more paper, now how about the principles the symbol stands for and more important the flesh and blood the flag serves? Can we get back to the business of Congress which is the people's business not showboating for distractions, not the business of a business world minority which has no business in civil government?

Call your Dems in supporting the voters for the amendment and against the amendment by urging insulting brevity and strong language to "move on" to duty.

[IndependentVoice]

40. funny how they say desecrates...

which is a connotation of a religous term *hint, hint* also more importantly there have only been 3 reported flags burned this year, they are trying to bring up a bs issue again to distract us, lets not let them do it again.

BTW I thought that the honorable way to dispose of an old flag was to burn it, so then...:wtf: