Kerry and Dean were Both past NAFTA supporters

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

Why does one get a pass on his past support while one is called a Bush enabler?

Kerry says he would review all U.S. trade deals within the first 120 days of his administration to make sure the agreements are enforceable and balanced.

Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark of Arkansas promises he would take just 90 days to review all U.S. tax provisions to determine whether any are providing incentives to companies to move their jobs overseas.

Howard Dean, meanwhile, was a NAFTA supporter as governor of Vermont. Now, he says he sees the damage the deal has done to America's industrial Rust Belt.

http://newsobserver.com/front/digest/v-print/story/3196071p-2873593c.html

[ngGale]

1. NAFTA is such a big deal because...

NAFTA has hurt so many people with job loss. But at the same time I hear it has brought jobs to some Midwestern states. This is a big issue not only in the South. They all need to debate it more. Is NAFTA the center of the problem, or an issue they are all afraid of?

[revcarol]

2. Notice how weaseling all three are.

Gotta review,review, review.

(&%$^&*()&*^&^%%% swear words....And THESE are our leading candidates??

[Forkboy]

3. They're both idiots

I give neither a pass.

[corporatewhore]

6. Ditto

[revcarol]

4. And Kerry was /IS also a WTO supporter,

and GATT, and fast track...Can't believe that this guy is leading in delegates.

He has buried his former liberal self somewhere in the DLC trash heap.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Actually while Kerry supported fast track because Clinton wanted it too

He has made some statements to the degree that there needs to be a LITMUS test to qualify...it isn't without strings..I'll have to find the senate statements..I was reading them last night.

[Virgil]

5. Why can[t he decide now?

Does Kerry have a commitment problem? It is not like this thing has not been around for years to evaluate. Damned, the guy is in the Senate and he is paid to be current on this stuff. What a joke? The old boilerplate, I will study the issue when I am in office. The guy is in office. I find the remarks insulting and a failure of service as a Senator.

[Hoppin_Mad]

7. Many Dems supported NAFTA - Clinton sold us out

Dean was questioning NAFTA as early as 1998.

Here's what he said not so long ago :

Concord, N.H.: Dr./Gov. Dean, many of your fellow candidates criticize NAFTA and the WTO for our country's loss of manufacturing jobs. What is your plan to help stop the loss of these jobs without America losing out on the long term economic benefits that come from free trade under NAFTA and the WTO?

Howard Dean :Globalization is here to stay whether we like it or not, but the rules for globalization are not. Both NAFTA and the WTO help large multinational corporations but ignore the needs for the people who work for them -- not only in America but around the rest of the world. In order to make globalization work we also have to globalize worker protection, labor rights, environmental rights and human rights. Free trade won't work under the present circumstances.

[MurikanDemocrat]

9. Because the one getting a pass on his past support is being

viewed unrealistically through rose colored glasses.

[Forkboy]

11. I think there's plenty of evidence

that there's a large supply of rose colored glasses to go around here.

[Tinoire]

10. NAFTA, GATT, WTO... All tools to the New World Order

that Bush Sr spoke so lovingly of and that all our entire establishment candidates support because they have no other vision, no decent vision to get us out of the mess our imperialism got us in.

Thanks NSMA for voting for Kucinich. BLM voting for Kucinich also pleasantly confirmed where I thought two of my most respected DUers would stand because of the insight you guys have into certain things.
I am not knocking Kerry with this post (especially since BLM is a Kerry fan) but these last few weeks I've been getting more and more uncomfortable with S&B and Rhodes scholars because their vision is the same- global domination by the Anglo elite and I am seeing that Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr and most of our Democratic establishment is fully on board with this. The cancer is eating away at both our parties!


Whoever said the sun would never rest on the British Empire was certainly on to something. The Anglo domination of the world is on in earnest. Skull and Bones, Rhodes scholars. No thanks to all that supremacy.

We've had a ton of information on S&B. Here's some on Rhodes.

====

Rhodes was a very complex and contradictory individual. His true feelings and idealogy have never fully been understood by historians and biographers. What is clear is that Rhodes was a very personnable leader who had the ability to inspire others and attract attention to his causes and ideas. On the flipside, he was a ruthless businessman who could often be accused of being little more than a bully. His treatment of Africans was equally contradictory, he often talked about them in a highly derogatory manner and virtually pioneered the 'Apartheid' system of separating the Africans working in his mines from the outside world. Yet, he also seems to have taken an uncommon interest in their cultures and language and had a respect and understanding for Africans that would have seemed remarkably liberal for his era.

Rhodes left a will that was to create one of the most successful educational endowments of all time; The Rhodes Scholarships. These were open to any of the Teutonic peoples; Britons, Germans and Americans. And had the express purpose of enabling the academic elites of these countries to mingle and understand one another better in an attempt to create an Anglo-Saxon empire across the world. Even in his death, Rhodes' dreams were bigger and more comprehensive than most other peoples'.
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/biography/rhodes.htm

===

From "Confession of Faith" - Testament of Cecil Rhodes

"Why should we not form a secret society with but one object, the furtherance of the British Empire and the bringing of the whole world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, for making the Anglo Saxon race but one Empire? What a dream, but yet it is probable, it is possible."

<snip>

To forward such a scheme what a splendid help a secret society would be a society not openly acknowledged but who would work in secret for such an object.

<snip>

What has been the main cause of the success of the Romish Church? The fact that every enthusiast, call it if you like every madman finds employment in it. Let us form the same kind of society a Church for the extension of the British Empire. A society which should have its members in every part of the British Empire working with one object and one idea we should have its members placed at our universities and our schools

<snip>

(In every Colonial legislature the Society should attempt to have its members prepared at all times to vote or speak and advocate the closer union of England and the colonies, to crush all disloyalty and every movement for the severance of our Empire. The Society should inspire and even own portions of the press for the press rules the mind of the people. The Society should always be searching for members who might by their position in the world by their energies or character forward the object but the ballot and test for admittance should be severe)

Cecil Rhodes... founder of the Rhodes De Beers Consolidated Diamond Mines & Rhodes scholarships

http://www46.homepage.villanova.edu/wood.bouldin/cecil_rhodes.htm
http://husky1.stmarys.ca/~wmills/rhodes_confession.html

Also here http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/rhodes-will.html where there is a little more info.

Rhodes' Legacy

Rhodes legacy as an empire builder includes more than the formation of Rhodesia. He built monuments and established game reserves on some of the most beautiful settings of South Africa and Rhodesia in accordance with the colonial ideals of preserving the territories' natural treasures. Some scholars contend that his ideas to civilize the natives in Africa's interior fertilized the seeds of apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia. Roberts wrote in Cecil Rhodes:

Throughout his life he proclaimed his faith in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race: a faith that was to lead to his being likened to Adolf Hitler. Nor did he make any secret of his own role in furthering British interests (1).
Rhodes' gifts to the United Kingdomís Oxford College remain his best known legacy, the Rhodes Scholarship. He endowed the school with the funds to support the education of men with ambitions similar to his own.

http://www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/Bahri/Rhodes.html

[Hoppin_Mad]

12. Tin, I HATE seeing the term "New World Order" on DU !

I've spent a fair amount of time studying various conspiracies, and the people concerned with the "New World Order" are almost exclusively FAR FAR right, and almost always include hypotheses that "The Jews' play a significant role, and are out to rule the world.

Can we come up with less 'loaded' terminology ?

Thanks

[Tinoire]

13. Just being technically correct since that was what Bush coined it

What else would you suggest?

This is the first I've heard (surprisingly) of Jews playing a significant role in the NWO- usually it's a very elite group of Anglo-Teutonic men from old families who are so incestually related that it's not even funny anymore.

Seriously though, what would you suggest if one is trying to be accurate since that's Bush's term which was also used by Hitler? I feel that anything else would be diluting what it really is.

I understand your point but I usually tend to dismiss how the Far Right exaggerates and twists things. In all honesty, I think we do the same and the the truth is somewhere down the middle once you remove all the wedge distractions that keep the people and the far right from recognizing the truth and addressing the real danger which is that countries, like people are being machiavellically exploited based on class with the US/UK/Europe/Australia (led by their elite) at the top. That is the NWO I am talking about and I hate to change the term. Now that I've explained my reasoning, what would you suggest? I am not sure how to make it less "loaded".

I would prefer to spend my time dispelling the myth that its a Zionist conspiracy than to change the term because changing the term would make everything get lost, imo. So what do you suggest? I very much appreciate that you point that out but am not sure that changing the terminology is the best way of combatting people's ignorance. What are your thoughts? & thanks.

[Hoppin_Mad]

15. "Ruling Elite" ? A good description of the NWO'ers

A rather different New World Order is the object of a belief or conspiracy theory among apocalyptic religious and political extremist groups, especially in the United States , that the United Nations has created a secret plan, known as the New World Order (NWO), to rule the world via a totalitarian socialist world government . There are a number of different ideologies related to this, some groups are religiously motivated, and believe that the agents of Satan are involved, and there are others without religious bias, known as illuminus , who are considered to be intellectually illuminated, and operate outside of social, legal and political restraint, gathering information and evidence on world events that are considered instigated by another group of illuminated individuals called the illuminati, to allow a stronger foothold for the global elite to hold control, and also taking direct action influencing groups to prevent the new world order attaining a foothold, these illuminus believe that the totalitarian society has already arrived in a subtle form.

The understanding of these groups is that the NWO will be created by a military coup, using UN and American troops, against all the nations of the world to bring about the One World Government. There was a belief among some believers in this thesis that this process would begin in 2000, set in motion by the predicted Y2K computer crisis causing widespread social disorder.

Some predictions made by users of this term of events that will occur under the NWO include:

The abolition of private property rights and gun ownership

all national and local elections controlled by the UN

the US constitution replaced by the UN charter (although clearly not the current UN charter)

only approved religions will be allowed to exist - as parts of the One World Religion

home schooling will be illegal and there will be a UN approved curriculum

military bases will be turned into concentration camps to confine those who defy the NWO.

Although the UN is used as a central figure in these actions, sometimes Jews ,Communists , the Bilderberg Group , the Illuminati , and similar bodies are included in the conspiracy.

[David Zephyr]

14. Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right.

[mzmolly]

16. Dean supported NAFTA but at the same time expressed reservations

about it.

This was recently revealed on the *lost canadian tapes* that resurfaced just in time for the Iowa caucauses...

[Armstead]

17. "Free Trade" is a conservative political scam

"Free trade" as it is defined these days is NOT free trade. It is just the opposite. The NAFTA free trade model is not just a mechanism to open up trade between natiions. It is a political scam.

Kerry's support of it is one of the reasons I don't like him. Kucinich is the only candidate who is on the right track on this. We need to return to more emphasis on BI-LATERAL TRADE AGREEMENRS between nations.

Dean is not as honest as Kucinich on it, but he is more honest than Kerry, and has at least opened his mind about it.

The whole neo-liberal "free trade" model is about much more than trade. It takes away the ability of nations to determine their own trade policies, in favor of a global set of rules set up by the corporate and political elite. It also is an attempt to force all nations to follow a particulat CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL MODEL, regardless of its particular culture or the desires of their people.

At its core this "one size fits all" approach is unweildy and unworkable. It is the CORPORATE IMPERIALIST AGENDA written on a global scale.

It is not a case of isolation versus global trade either. It is quite possible to both stimulate international fair trade and standards for workers rights and the environment without violating the basic sovergnty of nations.