The Top 8 Reasons Why H. Clinton Is a Weaker Candidate Than People Think

[iconoclastNYC]

Granted this comes from a right-wing source but I think that they make a lot a good points (the dig about Abortion notwithstanding)


1. Likeability and Charisma

If you look back at the last eight presidential elections, at least, the more likeable candidate has won every time. That’s unfortunate for Hillary because unlike her slick, gregarious husband, she does not have the gift of gab or a warm personality. If Hillary has to pass the old, “Gee, would I rather go to a ball game, grab some pizza, or get a beer with Hillary or the Republican candidate,” test, she’s going to be in a lot of trouble unless the person asking the question is wearing a tinfoil hat or is such a radical lefty that she has a “I (heart) abortion” bumper sticker on her car.

2. Gaffes

3. She Can’t Win in the South

The only two Democratic candidates for the presidency who’ve won elections since Lyndon Johnson was in office have been two Southern governors, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Why were they able to win? Because unlike John Kerry or Al Gore, they were able to win southern states. Northern liberals like Hillary? They don’t do well in the South and Hillary will have a lot of difficulty reversing that trend. After all, not only is she a liberal, from a liberal state, with a liberal voting record, she apparently disliked living in the South so much that she moved to New York. Good luck connecting with the NASCAR crowd after that Hillary, ’cause you’re going to need it!


4. Hillary’s Base Problem

5. Hillary Will Increase Turnout—for the GOP

Remember how the Democrats turned out in droves in 2004 so they could vote against President Bush? Well, the same thing would happen on the Republican side if Hillary were the Democratic nominee. There are few words in the English language more terrifying to Republicans than, “President Hillary Clinton,” and it’s almost guaranteed that they will turn out in record numbers to make sure it never happens.


6. Hillary as Commander in Chief?

7. Her Polling Numbers Aren’t Very Good

8. Baggage

Read all the explanations at : http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15542

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Please, no more DYNASTIC PRESIDENCIES

[iconoclastNYC]

2. Yeah I don't like that either

[coffee_and_cream]

28. How many are they?

I only know of the Bushs and the Clintons in the White House... oh and the Kennedys too. Can't remember anyone else. :shrug:

[amandabeech]

30. The Adamses from early in our country's history.

John, the second President, was a prominent founding father. His son, John Quincy, was number 6, I believe. Both Adamses were one-term Presidents, and I think both were from the defunct Federalist party.

[Iowa]

36. Perhaps...

...but a HRC win would make it 24 consecutive years - possibly 28.

But I'm not the least bit concerned about a Hillary win. I don't personally know a single Dem who is enthusiastic about her.

Regarding the speculation in the OP about her "likability and charisma", I don't think it's really a matter of lacking charisma... it's far worse than that, IMO. The real problem is that she exudes the same personality traits often seen in managers that front-line workers typically despise. It's difficult to identify the specific traits - perhaps a self-absorbed, haughty, detached, controlling, self-serving, coldness - but whatever it is, she reminds me of some of the very worst bosses I ever encountered. She comes across as someone who would connive her way into a management position, and then march in to a staff meeting (with three groveling assistants in tow) and tell a room full of seasoned employees how to do a job she's never done. And if you don't buy into her way of doing things, she'll throw you under a bus and then go have lunch. That's how she comes across to me, and I suspect others are making the same association.

She would be a disaster.

[Turn CO Blue]

59. Roosevelts. Adamses.

[Vidar]

72. Also Harrisons: Benjamin & William Henry

[izzybeans]

42. Seconded. I will not vote for her for this reason.

Why not just hand over the country to two families. Call them Unitary Monarchs and be done with this whole experiment.

[Hissyspit]

3. Which people?

I think she is a weak candidate. I would vote for her, of course, were she to get the nomination, but I think she is a weak candidate.

[Totally Committed]

4. She is UNELECTABLE....

We need to find a candidate who isn't.

TC

[Mojambo]

5. She's going to have HUGE money and near superhuman political instincts

I think she can win, I just don't think that would be a particularly good thing.

[iconoclastNYC]

7. I don't think her instincts are so superhuman

For one thing her favorables are very low in New York state despite the fact that she has a pretty good record in the Senate.

Secondly she's alienated the base so much that various people are considering a stop Hillary movement (in light of the huge money raising advantage she has)

If she had super human political instincts she would have come out against the war and voted the IWR down.

Too bad the Neocons have got thier meathooks into her.

[Mojambo]

15. I'm in that "Stop Hillary Movement"

But that doesn't mean I don't respect her ability to play the game.

When it comes to pure politics, she can swing the bat like no other Democrat. Add in the huge amounts of corporate cash she'd get and she 'd be very competitive.

It doesn't really matter. I don't think she'll end up running anyway. Which is a good thing for everyone.

[speedoo]

41. "near superhuman political instincts".... you're kidding, aren't you?

I can't think of a nationally known politician with WORSE political instincts. Her record abounds with examples of terrible political instincts.

[blm]

6. Odd - you rail against DLC but you put up commentary that supports DLC

thinking for Democratic success? And from a Moonie organization?

This article is supposed to SUPPORT getting conservative Southerners in power for Dems. I just don't get why you posted it - it certainly is inconsistent with the rest of your posts that attack the DLC.

[iconoclastNYC]

9. First of all

I fail to see how this is pro-DLC...care to explain?

Secondly... I agree with the sentiment... Hillary has way too many negatives to overcome.

[blm]

11. Dems successful ONLY with Southern governors?

Centrist Southern governors?

Is that really the point you want Dems to take out of this? Hello Mark Warner, no liberals need apply?

[iconoclastNYC]

13. Listen.

I didn't write the article, ok. I posted it because I thought it was interesting. The author is saying that it's a point against her (one of eight) the story here is that there are eight points against her.

[blm]

23. One thing to note is that consistency matters.

Posting articles from left then way right normally attracts alarms. Someone less familiar with your posts might take it the wrong way.

[iconoclastNYC]

24. They can look at my Journal and get a sense.

If someone is going to make a snap judgement on me based on one post, without looking at my Journal then so be it.

[Kutjara]

8. The one that's always left out.

I've read several articles on why Hillary can't win, listing various sub- and supersets of the eight points noted above. The one that's always left out, however, is the most obvious. Will America elect a woman President? So much of the country is so cripplingly conservative that I think a woman (or a Jew or an African-American) would have a hell of a time.

I'm hoping that someone here can shoot me down on this one, because I'm painting a pretty bleak picture of America's political future; one that I don't want to believe is true.

[iconoclastNYC]

10. Because the debate would devolve into a messy

Debate about sexual politics. Accusations would fly.

[tavalon]

17. I should have read down the comments

before I posted mine. It's effectively the same post you made.

Why is it that that very obvious point isn't made more often? I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it is a thing, an important thing, in fact.

[Awsi Dooger]

26. I'm a handicapper and that's #1 on my no-to-Hillary list

And always will be. I've stated it many times: is it too early for a woman to be elected? I say yes. Especially when I look at the vital states she would need to carry, assuming the popular vote is very close to 50/50.

Do we want a woman trying to win Florida, Ohio or Virginia? I don't think so. Without at least one of those three, we can't win.

Other than gender, I downplay almost everything used against Hillary. She is a fighter, I like her campaign instincts, she's already been Swift Boated as a national figure for 16 years come 2008, and I'm confident she would find the proper message and tone. Lazio wasn't much of a debater in '00 but Hillary was remarkably poised and handled herself well. I think she'll do well in the primary debates.

Another question: is a white woman the vehicle to swing the critical white female vote back to our side? If so, it would negate the "too soon for a woman" aspect. But I'm not confident that's the case.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. But with this attitude won't we have Male WASP presidents forever?

I should've said White Christian Male because John Kennedy was Catholic, but I couldn't fit that in the title.

When is America going to accept a woman president or a black president? Are we just going to suddenly know one election that this time Americans won't have a problem voting for a woman or an African American or a Jew? Or do we have to lead the way and say that the only way that America will elect a woman or an African American or a Jew is if we run one and convince Americans to vote for them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Senator Clinton is by any means going to become the first woman president nor are any of the other current major female political figures. That said, I think it is only a matter of waiting for the right person to emerge.

I would also point out that even in red states, women are elected to US Senate and Governors mansions. Janet Nepalitano of Arizona, Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Liddy Dole of North Carolina, Kay Bailey Hutchinson of Texas, Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska,

Stephanie Herseth is congresswoman at large from South Dakota and they just passed some of the worst anti women's rights legislation in the country.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Harry Truman on Hillary:

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time" - Harry S. Truman

[wyldwolf]

16. He was referring to the Dixiecrats

Of which Hillary hardly qualifies.

Truman also had some choice words to say about those to the left of him, too.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Harry Can Speak For Himself

1. I think that Harry could speak for himself - I don't see the word "dixiecrat" in the quote.
2. By today's standards even Ike would be a flaming liberal. I can't imagine how much further to the left of Truman one could be.

[wyldwolf]

21. LOL!

I think that Harry could speak for himself - I don't see the word "dixiecrat" in the quote.

heh! I don't see Hillary there, either, but there you go saying the quote was about Hillary. Look. It's obvious you know little or nothing about the Presidential race of 1948.

2. By today's standards even Ike would be a flaming liberal. I can't imagine how much further to the left of Truman one could be.

You should take your act on the road! Try..uh... what was his name... Henry Wallace. And just the other day, one of the "progreeeesssiiiives" here called Truman a neocon!

You folks are a riot!

[IronLionZion]

47. Truman pursued an aggressive foreign policy towards the Soviets

as did Kennedy, and Johnson. All of them were socially responsible on domestic issues.

Obviously these three were not neocons, but this line of thinking is what produced the neocon movement. Paul Wolfowitz and many other prominent neocons were Democrats until Reagan became president. A surprising number of neocons came out of Scoop Jackson's office.

[Hippo_Tron]

31. John Kennedy cut taxes for the rich

After he cut taxes, the people in the top bracket paid 70%, twice what they do today. And the right uses this to say that Kennedy supported supply side economics. If a 70% income tax on the richest Americans is supply side economics then I'm all for it.

[Cha]

43. Hey, Truman coulda

been talking about lie-berman and his ilk.

[paulk]

50. you mean the HRC Republican who has a 95% ACT rating?

LOL!

[tavalon]

14. There is one other that no one seems to be willing to touch

Hillary Clinton is a woman. We have not come so far that either a woman or a black has a snowballs chance in Hell of being elected. I am a woman and wish such were not so but it is, and I find it amusing that even right wingers can't admit to that big old pink elephant in the room.

[ruggerson]

18. Rightwing source is a euphemism

It's a lie-filled rightwing rag.

Of course, that doesn't mean they can't be occasionally on target, inadvertently.

[Metta]

20. Flirting with the right is losing the mainstream, I think. Plus, Pugs not

in her corner. She's uphill all the way. Plus, there are really viable candidates out there like Kerry, Gore and Russ Feingold.

[coffee_and_cream]

22. The more you tell bad things about her, the more you're making her win

The more you attack Hillary, the more she's become controversial, the more she's become popular. GOPs' strategy might just back fire.

To see more archive articles about her, just visit votersdomain.com

I have been there. They got nice stuffs there, if you just want. [by the way, this isn't part of my message about Hillary. :freak:

[enough already]

49. Maybe the GOP's strategy is to GET her nominated

You think Rove is not plotting that right now?

[SeaNap05]

25. 9th Reason Hillary not favored in Midwest

Hillary will have a poor showing in the Midwest, the heart of America, if she runs for president. Shes not well liked, and Edwards just recently showed her up in Iowa.

[Sawkrates]

27. I have yet to meet a single person...

Who went out and said, gee I'm happy Hillary will be running in '08. For the most part the people I talk to are just worried that she'll bring right wingers out in droves and let some lunatic waltz in the the White House.

Ultimately the Dems, desperate to win back the Presidency in '08 will go with an anti hllary. Hopefully that person will be better than Kerry. (Sorry John.)

[paulk]

51. Trash two Dems in one post!

Good work!

-Karl

[SaveElmer]

56. I have talked to dozens who express the opposite view...

I have people come into my store to compliment me on my Hillary '08 bumper sticker...

And I live in a purple area of a red state...

[oasis]

66. Outside of DU, Hillary haters only converse with other Hillary haters.

Obviously.;-)

[juajen]

57. I thought it was against forum rules to trash our own?

I am really tired of these stupid Hillary threads. I know everyone doesn't love her, but there are plenty of dems who do. Also, it's past time for everyone to realize that she is a Clinton by marriage only. Her election would not add to any dynasty. That's Rodham blood flowing through her veins.

She is a smart, experienced and very attractive democrat. I am so proud that she is one of us. Yes, I said one of us.

You know, the only time I ever got in trouble on this board was when I trashed Lieberman. I'm amazed at what the Hillary naysaysers are getting away with; even to the point of posting right wing talking points!!!!!

[iconoclastNYC]

62. Sorry you can't take criticism of your candidate

But this is a Democracy. And we're free to criticize our leaders.

[ladjf]

29. 9. She has never had one original thought regarding political

policy.

[Nothing Without Hope]

33. I agree. No wonder the GOPs are doing what they can to stuff Hillary

down our throats as the Dem candidate. Would be a disaster.

[oasis]

34. A: "Whenever I sink to to grasping at straws, I turn to 'Human Events'".

Q:What would Sean Hannity say if he were questioned about using an unreliable ultra right wing source?
:think:

[Cocoa]

35. Human Events?

is your hatred of Hillary so overpowering that you would post something approvingly from that trashy source where Ann Coulter serves as an editor?

:mad:

[OneBlueSky]

37. hell, she's not even very popular as a senator . . .

yes, she has a big lead in the polls . . . but it's hard as hell to find anyone who thinks she's a good senator -- even some who plan to vote for her . . . there's just no enthusiasm outside her immediate political circle . . .

[paulk]

73. 64 positive - 28 negative

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=57631

most recent polling

[Syrinx]

38. "likeability"

I certainly don't base my vote for president on that factor, but I'm genuinely perplexed by people that say W is "likeable" and possesses "sunny nobility."

He always seemed to be a frat-boy asshole prick to me, yet he won anyway. Or so they say.

[Bucky]

39. Yeh, likeability is BS--20/20 hindsight. But the other reasons are valid

And just a reminder about Bush--he didn't fucking win!!

[Syrinx]

40. oh, I'm a Hillary hater from way back

I don't really hate her. But she's certainly not what we need in a candidate.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Syrinx/16

[AlGore-08.com]

45. The "Southern Governor" thing isn't valid for two reasons

1.) Clinton's 1992 win was due in a large part to Ross Perot's candidacy, which got close to 20% of the vote, and allowed Clinton to carry a lot of states with less than half of their popular vote - - and a number of states with less than 40% of their popular vote. (Clinton carried some states with a smaller percentage of that state's vote than Dukakis had gotten four years earlier.) So although Clinton did win legitimately, it's not a win that can be used as a model for future elections, because it's very unusual for a 3rd party candidate to get even 4% of the popular vote. (Even though Perot didn't run in 1996, he still got 8% of the popular vote.)

2.) If you only look at the official totals, Gore got 1/2 million more votes than Bush. And Gore has never been a Governor.

[stubertmcfly]

44. I am a Democrat...

...and I don't get excited in the least about the thought of having to cast my vote for Hillary. That pretty much sums up why she is not a good candidate. If even people solidly among the "base" aren't interested in voting for her then how would anyone expect her to swing any people on the fence? This, coupled with the fact that she would mobilize the right to the polls makes her an awful candidate. My parents are solid Republicans who have been leaning away from the party in recent times. Hillary, I can guaranty, would push them back solidly in the fold. There is a remote chance they would vote Democratic but no possible way either of them would vote for Hillary.

[IronLionZion]

46. We don't want to go Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton

Hillary somehow manages to be opposed by both sides. Only Republican strategists are drooling over her possible candidacy and went so far as to leave her alone during her Senate re-election campaign this year.

It's time for someone new with the right ideas like a certain cheese-loving Wisconsin Senator or an environmentally conscious former Vice President or a retired NATO General.

[juajen]

58. I love Russ, Al and Wes.

I will fight like crazy for any one of them; however, Hillary deserves her chance like anyone else. I will support her through the primaries and will then throw all of my heart into the primary winner's campaign for the White House.

I will accomplish this without trashing any of our great democrats who might be running for the presidency. Please remember that we are all in this democratic boat together. We all need to be rowing together, not sinking the boat.

[rinsd]

48. Its bad enough when Sirota whored GOP talking points, now you are?

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/search.php?author_name=John%20Hawkins

Fucking author of right wing news?

[Norquist Nemesis]

52. #1 reason why it's not important

There is an election THIS YEAR that is just over five months away.

[paulk]

53. That you would use a right wing opinion piece

to attack a Democrat says a lot about you.


right there in black and white.

[iconoclastNYC]

61. Pointing out flaws is not an attack.

[LincolnMcGrath]

63. Yes, we should only use right wingers and their opinions when they

work/write for the dlc.

[Cocoa]

68. it says a lot about people that are tolerating it too

Human Events is among the worst of the worst, but many people here are nodding along, all because of their hatred of Hillary.

[AtomicKitten]

69. torches and pitchforks mentality

Despite their protests to the contrary, they don't represent my party.

[Cocoa]

71. and Lou Dobbs is at the top of the "Greatest" right now

and Salon is getting trashed.

:wtf:

[wyldwolf]

54. Paraphrased and in a nutshell

I'll just paraphrase the article:

1. I don't like her
2. She says things I don't like
3. People down south? They don't like her.
4. The people I drink with? They don't like her much.
5. The meanies will leave their corporate offices and vote against her.
6. Can you imagine Hillary with her husband and all those folks from the 90s in charge again? Sheesh!
7. Just because more people like her than any other democrat, that don't mean nothin'!
8. She's done stuff before.

[AtomicKitten]

70. ***

Knowing that 95% of DU'ers won't vote for HRC in the primary, I can't help but wonder why we are treated to this incessant barrage of Hate-HRC threads. Who are they trying to convince? Is it just rabid vitriol that must be incised and drained at regular intervals? Damn.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[election_2004]

60. You forgot one of the most important ones....

DOWNTICKET LOSSES for Democrats, especially those who are trying to beat Republican incumbents in red/purple states.

Hillary's very presence on the national ticket (her flawed ideology aside), would result in the greatest possible GOTV backlash from the right-wing.

Running against a Clark or a Warner, on the other hand, wouldn't give the GOP such an easy excuse to chant "HILLARY, HILLARY, HILLARY!" during every televised debate or campaign stop.

[Radical Activist]

64. They missed number one: Conviction

People like a candidate with conviction. It was the theme Republicans used most frequently against Gore and Kerry. Why can't the "pay it safe" crowd see that?

[Name removed]

65. Deleted sub-thread

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