Bush says Fitzgerald investigation over

[MissWaverly]

In October, Libby was charged with obstruction of justice and lying to FBI agents and a grand jury during the investigation. He has pleaded not guilty and is scheduled to go to trial in January.

That prompted speculation that Rove, too, could face charges since he had also spoken to reporters in the case.

"We believe the special counsel's decision should put an end to the baseless speculation about Mr. Rove's conduct," Luskin said.

On Air Force One flying back from a surprise trip to Iraq, Bush said of the decision: "It's a chapter that has ended. Fitzgerald is a very thorough person. I think he's conducted his investigation in a dignified way. And he's ended his investigation." I especially like how
the decider gets to decide that the investigation is over, Woooo HOOOO, I am the decider,
I've got my hand in everything, I am not just the president, Wooo HOOOO, I am judge and jury,
TOOO!

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=6806820

[JDPriestly]

1. The investigation is over.

The Libby trial is about to begin. Will we ever get to know the results of the investigation? Do we get to know anything under the current regime? No. No. No. Business as usual. Get over it. --- The fascist regime has officially taken over, excused itself from paying its fair share of taxes and squelched any attempt to reign it in or make it follow the same rules that we lowly taxpayers have to follow. We're just supposed to get used to it.

[MissWaverly]

4. Well, unfortunately for them, this is not 1820

as much as they would like it to be, where the robber barons could slumber peacefully in their
chairs, we have electronic media that stretches around the globe. Jeffrey Skilling and Ken
Lay are on their way to the slammer with many miscreants from this new gilded age to follow.

[Dulcinea]

42. Just because he says it's over doesn't make it so.

I have a suspicion there's more to come.

[journalist3072]

2. And that is precisely why

Patrick Fitzgerald needs to hold a press conference to explain the status of the investigation.

Of course he's not obligated to under any particular law or statue.

But I believe he has a moral obligation to explain the status of the investigation. And if he has truly decided not to indict Karl Rove, I believe he should explain why. Is it because people impeded the investigation so much, that he couldn't make heads or tails of things to see who did what? Or did he have the information he needed, and decided that there was no basis for an indictment?

[MissWaverly]

5. Bush just announced this as he was flying back from Iraq

That's all we need to know, heh, heh, heh!!!!

[JuniperLea]

11. I think that would be unwise of him

You can't talk about an ongoing investigation and there is still a trail looming.

After the trial, then yes, he needs to tell all.

[MissWaverly]

12. No, he will not speak, that's why Bush is speaking

Bush, the unitary executive, is telling us that the investigation is over.

[JuniperLea]

3. The trial won't start, conveniently enough, until January 07

There is still a chance Rove could get his for lying under oath during pre-trial testimony.

[MissWaverly]

7. I still think there's a chance that things could change

I have a feeling that there has to be pressure on Bush from the CIA to have accountability in
the PLAME case.

[JuniperLea]

9. I agree

I keep hearing that "Rove did not intentionally out Plame." Intentional or not, he confirmed it. If you unintentionally kill someone, it's still manslaughter. And it's still negligence.

[MissWaverly]

10. Yes and people still died because their cover was outed

[JuniperLea]

13. The outing put a lot of agents, and our national security at risk

There's this little thing called treason that still needs to be addressed... It's not over by a long shot. This trial will go on for a very long time and much could be discovered during said trial.

[MissWaverly]

14. or if it is squashed then there will be consequences as well

who is holding the curtain over the secret prisons, who is operating rendition, who has these
high profile terrorists under lock and key: the CIA. I am sure there will be more whistle
blowers now, they will just leak to the foreign press instead of the US press.

[ananda]

6. God, you know, I have this sinking feeling that..

.. Fitz has been bought off or threatened.. probably both.

Something about all this just stinks....

[MissWaverly]

8. no, I just think the indictments were sealed just like Leopold

said, and everyone jumped on him and personally attacked him, look at Dan Rather, smeared over
the TANG documents, or how the New York Times was villified for releasing info on illegal wiretaps. It's blame the messenger. It's a smear, the same way that Plame was outed,
a smear, political payback. I have heard that Fitzgerald is a man of intregrity so I
hope that people will not throw brickbats at him. Over and over again, we have an
individual tried in the public eye for something related to this administration, while
they set back exonerated, like heckuva job Brownie.

[rodeodance]

19. I think Fritz just raised the bar for indicting an imp. public figure such

Rove. just my opinion but i think he wanted to 100% sure.

[KingFlorez]

15. Why should we trust what Bush says?

[MissWaverly]

17. that is a very good point

I, myself, believe that the indictments have been sealed which is why the investigation
is over. Because the Justice Department is sitting on them or the Judge is sitting on
them.

[Peace Patriot]

16. There is no such news at the link, nor at the swissinfo international news

ticker.

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/international/ticker/index.html?siteSect=142

Do you have a better link? This is the first I've heard of any definitive statement like this by Bush about the Fitzgerald investigation. I believe all other news sources interpreted "And he's ended his investigation" to mean that he's ended his investigation of ROVE. And both that, and this broader interpretation, could well be spin. Fitz may have "ended his investigation" of Rove in the sense that he cracked Rove with the threat of indictment on perjury (he has the goods on Rove on perjury, from what I can see), and that he can now proceed to trial on the Libby perjury, and proceed with the DEEPER aspects of the investigation, and try to crack Libby (who is obstructing the actions of his superior Cheney--and possibly of Rumsfeld also--the chief conspirators and masterminds, who sought to destroy the CIA's WMD counter-proliferation network for their nefarious reasons--something Rove didn't have the power to do alone).

I believe that what you've posted in not new news--it's what Bush said in coordination with Luskin, Rove's lawyer, who has yet to release the Fitzgerald letter about Rove's status, because it likely says that Rove will not be indicted PENDING HIS FULL COOPERATION AT TRIAL. The "aspens" (fatcat Repubs) may have a strategy to finger Cheney (for a slap on the wrist by the Diebold Congress) and get a fresh face in as V-P. Whether it works out or not remains to be seen. But I don't think anyone can "end" this investigation but Fitzgerald. And you will notice he had "no comment" on Luskin's spin. If Rove were exonerated, he would be obligated to say so. He has said nothing.

There is a possibility that torture memo writer and Bush Cartel toady, AG Gonzales SOUGHT to interfere behind-the-scenes. (--this mysterious sealed indictment, "Sealed v. Sealed," that Fitzgerald filed during the Rove flurry in early May.) But Fitzgerald ALSO has the goods on Gonzales, on obstruction (his alerting White House operatives to the investigation, early on, giving them time to shred documents, wipe hard drives and cook up cover stories). So I don't think Gonzales interference could or did fly.

Most of us here at DU interpret things politically. We wanted Rove indicted for perjury NOW, to help toss these criminals out in November. But a Rove perjury indictment might well have been a FAILURE for Fitzgerald (more obstruction on the main conspiracy--total blockade). Rove NOT being indicted--amidst all these signs that Fitz's pressure on him resulted in his reluctant cooperation--may actually be very GOOD NEWS, for the long term disclosure of the dreadful, traitorous conspiracy to manufacture a war against Iraq.

[MissWaverly]

20. Try the link again, I don't know what went wrong

I e-mailed the article to myself and recopied the link. I went in and fixed my initial post.

:-)

[alfredo]

18. Has fitz dismissed the Grand Jury? If not, the investigation continues.

[MissWaverly]

21. heres an article from the Washington Post

With Rove's situation resolved, the broader leak investigation is probably over, according to a source briefed on the status of the case. Fitzgerald does not appear to be pursuing criminal charges against former State Department official Richard L. Armitage, who is believed to have discussed the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame with at least one reporter, according to the source.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/13/AR2006061300267.html

[alfredo]

30. If it was over the Grand Jury would be dismissed. Something is still

in the works. Fitz could have found something else rotten on Pennsylvania Ave. Maybe the leak investigation could be over as far as Rove and Armitage, but we don't know what else is to come.

I'm hoping Cheney is in Fitz's cross hairs.

[Peace Patriot]

24. There are several avenues for continued investigation: 1) the current

grand jury still sitting, extending the term of the current grand jury (which Fitz did with the first grand jury), and a third grand jury when this second grand jury's term ends (not sure when), and 2) the Libby perjury/obstruction trial, which would include pre-trial depositions, fine-tooth comb pourings over GJ testimony, calling witnesses (both sides), examination of witnesses under oath--which could well include at least Cheney (Cheney written evidence has already been introduced)--additional evidence, and further investigations prompted by the trial.

This trial is about White House obstruction of Fitz's investigation, and there pretty clearly was a conspiracy to do so. Then there is the main crime, and conspiracy to commit the main crime: not just outing Plame (on July 14, 2003) but ADDITIONALLY outing Brewster-Jennings, the entire CIA WMD network (on July 22, 2003, also by Novak). This is a a VERY SERIOUS CRIME, conceivably a hanging offense. It is no surprise that the Bushites have been conspiring about it, and obstructing investigation of it, from the very beginning, indeed, from well before the crime was committed. (The Libby filings show that they had a strategy, devised before the outing, of "seeding" Plame's identity around town, with reporters and others, so they could claim that "everybody knew." Fitz penetrated the conspiracy to that extent, and has exposed that strategy.)

Much as we despise Rove, the evidence so far (the visible evidence) points to him as a relatively minor (if willing) player in this plot, even a patsy. I've thought that Libby or someone acting for Libby probably dis-informed Rove on the legality of revealing Plame's identity, and let him run with it as a political action, a dirty trick. (There is a story in Wilson's book of a dustup between Libby and Rove, early on, along these lines.) Rove was a second in command, like Libby, running a dirty rotten political plot to silence Wilson. But what was BEHIND this plot? Who had the power and the deeper motives to destroy our counter-proliferation network? (I have never believed the story that Wilson was the prime target. The prime target or targets may not even have been American--but people buried in this worldwide network--our eyes and ears on illicit WMD movements--who discovered something, or stopped something, illicit that the Bushites were doing.) (Trying to PLANT nukes in Iraq, and/or Iran?)

Anyway, Fitzgerald may never be able to nail Cheney (or, if he does, the "aspens" may "sacrifice" Cheney to retain power, or, rather, to create a plausible narrative of the people's Diebolded votes, in '06 or '08), and nailing Rumsfeld seems an even more remote possibility (I call him "the Lurker"), but that doesn't mean that Fitzgerald has or will give up on exposing this national security crime. If nothing else, he can issue a grand jury report naming "unindicted co-conspirators." There is simply no question that the Bushites have tried to stop him, and they will no doubt continue trying to do so. But I don't think there is sufficient evidence to conclude that they have succeeded, and there is much evidence to indicate that they have not. A Libby pardon, though--now being bandied about (in Newsday, I understand) would be a clear signal that we have lost any "balance of powers" between the law and the Bush junta.

Our job: Join with others to throw Diebold, ES&S and all election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW! Election reform at the state/local level is our best chance to save our democracy. The Bush junta's power is not primarily a matter of convincing anybody, and never has been. It is a matter of POWER. And until we get back the power of TRANSPARENT elections--which is still a doable thing--we are without our main mechanism for holding our government accountable. Fitzgerald can't fix this. Only, we, the people, can fix it. It is a MUST DO.

[MissWaverly]

31. is it possible to issue secret pardons

I was wondering if this could be possible since they are talking about a Libby pardon ahead of
a trial?

[Loge23]

22. It is over - along with hope.

Think whatever you would like: conspiracy, influence, or even actual justice. But this thing is history. Rove is out front once again spewing his vile attacks on all things left of extreme right.
The admin is in full control - polls be damned.
Watch as the dicktator's numbers rise and 2008 - just as "fitzmas", katrina, iraq, and abramoff - goes up in smoke.
As long as the populace remains in a media-induced propaganda coma, nothing will change.

[agincourt]

23. Propaganda's greatest harm,

is not in making the stupid much stupider, but making the honest and intelligent passive. What's left of democracy in this country can only be saved by divine anger at the bottom for the cockroaches that have taken over Washington DC. When Fitzgerald locked up Martha Stewart for the same stuff rat-eyes got away with in 1992, I didn't have much faith in him. Only armed and angry Americans not sucking off of Rove and Coulter can reinstall America.

[JDPriestly]

35. We have to get out there and get Democrats to vote for Democrats

for Congress. We either take back the House or Senate or we lose our democracy. It's now or never, folks. Only if we get a House or Senate that can investigate Bush's conduct, can we save our democracy. The litmus test for Democratic candidates has to be: will you investigate the Bush administration corruption and abuses of power? Other things don't matter that much.

[KingFlorez]

25. I don't believe this is over

There is no sign the investigation closed, I believe there is someone else to be caught for the outing of Plame.

[Loge23]

27. I (still!) hope you're right (nt)

[Doctor_J]

29. Yipes

you need to get back to planet Earth, Your Majesty. Rove was guilty, and has been cleared. It's over.

[KingFlorez]

33. I'm not talking about Rove

I believe there is more to this and until the investigation is officially closed out right, I still believe there is something to be revealed.

[MissWaverly]

32. I think you are wrong

remember Bush has much baggage and the CIA has been carrying much of it; what incentive would they have to continue their silence if this investigation was squashed. Okay, AG Gonzales has
threatened whistle blowers; but they can always leak it to foreign journalists.

[Peace Patriot]

34. "This thing is history."--no evidence for it. "Along with hope"--says who?

Really, go away with your hopeless talk! Democracy is not over until the last believer in democracy is dead!

If you depend on "white knights" to save our country and our democracy, "hope" may well be dead in YOUR heart sooner than among those who really believe in democracy: the collective realizations, will and action of the people. You say they remain "in a media-induced propaganda coma." That may be true of the some of the people. Is it true of all? And what may those who are NOT "in a media-induced propaganda coma" do to help those who are? And--a very important question, in my view--how much of YOUR hopelessness is itself based on "media-induced propaganda coma"? To what extent are the war profiteering corporate news monopolies fostering YOUR feelings of powerlessness, isolation, despair, demoralization, and a belief that OTHER Americans are brainwashed or have gone nuts?

There is in fact considerable evidence that the American people HAVEN'T BOUGHT the 24/7 propaganda, and are in fact far better informed and more progressive than anyone gives them credit for, but many are mired in despair and powerlessness, just as you are, because the subtler messages have succeeded--the messages of powerlessness and hopelessness.

Truly, I see this situation in terms of of REAL POWER, not FEELINGS of power or FEELINGS of lack of power. I also don't see it as primarily having to do with the issues or propaganda on the issues. The fascists have gained the power to "count" all our votes with 'TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, controlled by Bushite electronic voting corporations. So, no matter we think, THEIR views have an illusion of support. We need to stop buying into these illusions, and start addressing the mechanism of power. The coma succeeds not because Bush is supported on the issues. It succeeds because it makes people like you feel that "It is over--along with hope."

Please think about this. I am not attacking you. I think we all, every one of us, suffers from the coma/illusion that OTHER Americans don't share our views. The problem is how to EMPOWER the views of MOST Americans, which are, in fact, anti-Bush in every possible way, on all issues, and very anti-Iraq war?

[Peace Patriot]

36. "This thing is history."--well, little or no evidence. I laid out some of

the evidence for and against "this thing being history," above. And there is far more evidence that it is NOT over, and not even close to being over. Did you read it? Rove was a SECOND-IN-COMMAND on the Plame/BJ outings. He wasn't the mastermind. That is the classic situation in which a prosecutor like Fitzgerald uses LESSER crimes--like Rove's perjury--to pressure the cooperation of the seconds-in-commands on the bigger crimes of the main perps and conspirators. Granted, this is a highly politicized situation, with very dangerous autocrats at the levers of most government power. And a "Saturday Night Massacre" event certainly wouldn't surprise me. Also, there are a lot of unknowns. But what evidence there is suggests that, if a power play was tried, it did not succeed. The NEXT power play--a Bush pardon of Libby, for instance--might well succeed in ending Fitzgerald's ability to get at the deeper conspiracy through the means of the trial. He then has a few other means to pursue--another grand jury or a damning grand jury report.

What WE are responsible for, as citizens, is to ensure that OUR will is done by our representatives. Right now, our representatives are not doing our will because they are not beholden to US. They are now beholden to electronic voting companies using TRADE SECRET vote counting in the new electronic voting systems. We have a window of opportunity to change that--at the state/local level. That's what we must do. That is OUR job. A prosecutor can only do so much.

[Loge23]

40. It is what it is. I still have hope for change.

I have read both your responses and I appreciate your passion. I don't take it as an attack at all.
I do, however, politely disagree that "most" Americans are of the same opinion as you or I on the administration. The majority may be opposed to the illegal war but when push comes to shove they simply slither onward. It depends on where you are I suppose, but the idiotic "president" remains a fan fave in many, many areas.
I agree we should do all we can at the local level and I pledge that I will do so. But my original point remains: 1) They are in full control. 2) I expect a pardon for Libby and no further action from Fitzgerald.
The latter is my opinion. The former is a fact.

[seabeyond]

26. then can they answer the questions from reporters now?

like all people involved, whether indicted or not, still involved ... there are still questions to be asked. bushco said they couldnt answer during investigation. since it is over, i am guessing helen can now ask, and snow MUST answer

[Doctor_J]

28. Yep - they've now gotten away with treason

to go with murder, war crimes, perjury, and racketeering. Somewhere Capone and Stalin are smiling and lighting up cigars at what Rove has been able to accomplish.

[Peace Patriot]

38. I repeat: Fitzgerald is ONE PROSECUTOR. He can only do so much--

in the face of a fascist coup--even if he is 100% straight-arrow honest, strong and patriotic, which he seems to be. The rest is up to US. If our government has gotten away with "murder, war crimes, perjury, and racketeering, and Capone and Stalin are smiling and lighting up cigars at what Rove has been able to accomplish," that is OUR RESPONSIBILITY, not a burden born by ONE PROSECUTOR. It is OUR COUNTRY--we, the people, collectively. It is up to all of us to figure out how this fascist coup occurred and how it is remaining in power, and to DO SOMETHING about it.

As for Rove, Fitzgerald has NO POWER to prosecute Rove for every crime he has ever committed, especially given the Bush junta's ability to cover its tracks. He is lucky to have the handle he does on Rove--perjury--to try to crack the HIGHER UP conspiracy that Libby represents (the barricade in front of Cheney and Misfield). AG Gonzales, when he was White House Counsel, notified the White House and thus Rove of the pending investigation, giving them overnight to shred docs and proceed with the cover up. But what was ALSO happening--apparently--is that Libby was setting Rove up to take the fall. If you come at this investigation and filings with purely political goals--wanting to see Rove indicted, for ANYTHING--you will miss the subtleties of these events, and the matter of LEVEL OF GUILT, which is the very thing a good prosecutor uses to crack a case with powerful criminals in the background who know how to cover their butts. I know it's hard to think of Rove as a patsy--but it is possible that he thought he was doing a dirty trick, not a felony, and not treason, when he called Novak. And remember, too, that Fitzgerald is restricted to the type of felony at issue, which requires full knowledge and intent on outing and endangering a CIA agent. Rove may have been deliberately dis-informed, by Libby or others, on this legal issue. Also, Rove was not in a position to mastermind this conspiracy. Those who WERE in a position to mastermind it were Cheney, Libby and Misfield. The upshot is that Fitzgerald will likely use Rover's testimony to convict Libby of perjury and obstruction, and to get at those behind (above) Libby who authorized his (AND Rover's) illegal and treasonous actions.

It's OUR job to get our power back--our power to hold our government accountable, through TRANSPARENT electIons. Fitzgerald cannot make this fascist junta accountable. He can only pursue the criminal conspiracy of this crime as best he can--and seems to be doing just that. WE must save our country. WE must restore our right to vote. No one else can or will. It is OUR franchise, as the sovereign people of this land, that is at issue. If you want the crime to stop, you will go down to your local County Registrar and demand open, transparent vote counting. Bushido-controlled electronic voting machines, run on secret programming code, have to be gotten rid of! And you will join with others toward that purpose. That's what we must do. That's OUR obligation. If things have been hard for Fitzgerald--and I'm sure they have been--it's because WE have not been vigilant, and have let these crooks run away with our right to vote. And as long as there is a window of opportunity to change this--as there is, now, at the state/local level--we must take advantage of it, if we are serious about saving our country.

[Doctor_J]

41. We can't even prevent them from committing treason, or

letting the WTC get attacked, or trying to kill Daschle and Leahy with anthrax (remember that?). How in the hell are we going to prevent election theft.

Repeat after me: THESE FASCISTS ARE TO GOING TO LEAVE OFFICE PEACEFULLY. We can sit at our terminals and complain to each other and talk loftily about how we are empowered to do this and that, but in between ruminations, it is good to remember that Scalia, after executing the coup d'etat in December 2000, said for the record that Americans have no inherent right to vote. Despite that, and many other anti-American words and deeds, he continues to sit on the high court. Complaining to you County Registrar is nothing more than self-abuse, when the Supremem Court contains people committed to destroying the Constitution.

[Igel]

37. A few points.

The first is what * actually plausibly means. * may merely be saying, in context, that the Rove part is over; or he may be stating all investigations that haven't produced indictments are over. He may be saying his personal inference, i.e., stating an opinion about either; or he may have knowledge from what Fitzgerald's told Gonzalez. We can't tell. Any of these 4 possibilities is possible, and plausible, without making the unnecessary assumptions that he's obtained an extra-legal shut-down of the investigation. Arguing about which of these five options is the necessary interpretation is a matter of beliefs and assumptions; it would be more profitable to cut to the chase and debate the underlying assumptions directly, rather than by proxy.

Fitzgerald's office may remain up and running for a year or two or more after the investigation has de facto ended. Other investigations have done so, and I don't see why Fitzgerald's is special in that regard. Having the office open may mean he's working on leads to snag other people; it may mean he's hopeful leads will pop up, and there's lots of other stuff to do in the meantime; or it may mean he's merely working on other stuff so he can stop commuting to DC. "Other" stuff includes the Libby trial, for example, which is now a different matter from Plamegate proper.

The continuance of the GJ has a number of interpretations. First, it's not only dealing with Fitzgerald's investigation, so not dismissing it means merely it's doing something; we can make assumptions about what it's doing, but that's back to beliefs and assumptions. When Fitzgerald goes before the GJ, that's meaningful. But such reports have been notably lacking, or at least I haven't seen them.

[AmericasReporter]

39. In Junior's world it's over IN REALITY THE SHOW HAS JUST STARTED

Dumb Dumb is just doing the circle the wagons, move along...nothing to see KKKarl Rove act.

I'll put MONEY down that the sealed indictments have Bushie and Cheney's name on it and KKKarl got flipped to testify against these two Hitlers.


I can't wait for everything to EXPLODE on them!!!!


Start the Revolution
Start the IMPEACHMENT (How much longer do we have to wait???)