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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:04 PM
Original message
Some more Kerry facts
From the DFA forum:

A lot of people, especially Kerry's core constituency, are older folks who aren't doing thorough research on the internet. They are at the mercy of the corporate press. - so it is doubly important we infom. So fire up your printers and photocopiers patriots. We have unprecedented capabilities, it's time to use them!

What's important is your work as an "editor". We should use compact CREDIBLE stories that contrast his record and issues with Dean's

1st: #1 Lobbiest Funded Senator (A KEY difference)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4121890/

2nd: Kerry's Voting Record (Rhetoric Doesn't Match the Record)
He called No Child Left Behind "Ground Breaking Legislation" when he voted for it.
He Voted for the Patriot Act
Story is Here: http://66.216.126.164/lowry/lowry200401260838.asp

The Legacy of No Child Left Behind is Here (not directly addressing Kerry's role)
http://view.atdmt.com/AGM/iview/stdyxsbd03...irect/01?click=

He goes with whatever's popular:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/e...imaries/2369868


And some Kerry analysis (kinda cute):

Kerry Then: The NAM protester and war hero. Bullets thumping into his speedboat as he races to rescue fellow troops in the river. (Wonderful!)

Kerry Now: The top special interest $$$ recipient currently running for Pres. (NOT SO WONDERFUL)

Kerry Then: Diligent young NAM protester fighting Nixon. (Wonderful!)

Kerry Now: The fight is gone! He doesn't bother to vote much any more (just check the record--its all on the net). The few times he does vote, he votes the wrong way! (NOT SO WONDERFUL)

Kerry Then: A poor guy, with long hair, smoking pot. (Wonderful?)

Kerry Now: A rich guy, with short hair, nostalgic for those good 'ol pot smoking days. (NOT SO WONDERFUL)
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great post!
And until we are not at the mercy of the media whores, I am afraid the truth will not go very far.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. What is DFA please?
It's probably something I should know but this old brain isn't working properly right now.

Thanks.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Dean for America, of course. Propaganda and Lies Central.
I wonder why they aren't busy putting up Dean's data using the exact same formula they use for Kerry's lifetime donations.

An HONEST opponent would do exactly that.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Haha!
"Propaganda and lies central", yes.

Kerry has a much more liberal/progressive voting record than Dean does.

Clark/Kerry 04'
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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Yeah a really progressive record...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on Welfare Reform
H.R. 3734
Welfare reform - With bipartisan support and the endorsement of President Clinton, the House and Senate approved legislation that preyed on the limited rights of vulnerable groups including children, immigrants, the poor and the elderly in the name of welfare reform. The bill also eroded free speech for not-for-profit organizations, violated
the separation of church and state, and damaged privacy rights by establishing a de facto national identification system. The legislation passed the House on a vote of 256 to 170; the Senate approved the measure with a vote of 74 to 25.

The ACLU Urged a Vote Against the Legislation
Sen John Kerry voted for this and so did Lieberman, Santorum & Ashcroft...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on Government Funding of Religious Institutions
S. 1956
Government Funding of Religious Institutions - Included in the welfare overhaul was a provision that could force state governments, under threat of lawsuits, to contract with religious institutions, including houses of worship, to provide taxpayer-funded social services, even if they are delivered in a proselytizing environment. This, too, was a recurring theme in the 104th Congress where opponents of religious liberty repeatedly sought to pass provisions to lower the wall of separation between church and state. In the Senate, the provisions were inserted into the welfare bill by a vote of 67 to 32. There was no separate vote
on the provisions in the House.

The ACLU Urged a Vote For the Separation of Church and State
Kerry voted against ACLU and so did Lieberman, Santorum & Ashcroft...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How the Senate voted on Internet Censorship
S.652
Internet Censorship - As part of a major overhaul of the nation's telecommunications industries, both the House and Senate approved major new censorship schemes for the Internet. The Senate adopted its version, the so-called Communications Decency Act, by a vote of 84 to 16. A similar censorship scheme was adopted in the House on a vote
of 256 to 149 as part of its version of telecommunications reform. The final bill incorporated much of both provisions and passed overwhelmingly with only five senators and 16 representatives registering opposition. Minutes after President Clinton signed the legislation, the ACLU challenged its constitutionality in Reno v. ACLU.

The ACLU Urged a Vote Against Censorship
Kerry voted for this Even Lieberman voting only 28% w/ ACLU voted against this...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on Campaign Finance Reform
S. 1219
Campaign Finance Reform - In a sign of widespread disillusion with the political process, both the House and Senate considered versions of campaign finance reform that the ACLU believed to be unconstitutional infringements of free speech provisions of the First Amendment. In the Senate, a motion to end a filibuster against the bill failed by a vote of 54 to 36, six votes short of the 60 needed to end debate. In the House, campaign finance was rejected by a vote of 259 to 162.

The ACLU Urged a Vote For the First Amendment
Kerry and Lieberman voted against the First amendment... Even Ashcroft and Santorum voted for the 1st...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on Medical Privacy
H.R 3103
Medical privacy - Hidden within the massive health care reform bill approved by Congress in the stampede for an August recess was a deceptively labeled provision that further eroded the privacy rights of all Americans. The provision, known as "administrative simplification," gives government and businesses access to confidential medical information about individuals without their consent and establishes a unique health identification number for every patient, health provider, health plan and employer. The medical privacy provisions of the bill
never came up for a separate vote, but the Senate approved the health care measure on a vote of 98 to 0. Earlier, the House had rejected by a vote of 198 to 226 an alternative version of the bill that would have deleted the anti-privacy provisions.

The ACLU Urged a Vote For Medical Privacy
Kerry, Lieberman, Ashcroft, Santorum and many others voted against Medical Privacy...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on Immigration Legislation
H.R. 2202
Immigration - Seeking to capitalize on a wave of anti-immigration initiatives, both the House and Senate passed bills that represented the most draconian and divisive immigration proposals in decades. Included were provisions that would strip the courts of jurisdiction over illegal and abusive INS actions and erect enormous and virtually insurmountable barriers for most people seeking political
asylum. The House even approved a bill that would have effectively denied public education to American citizen children of undocumented immigrants. The Senate voted 97 to 3 to accept one version of the legislation; the House approved a harsher version by a vote of 333 to 87. The President signed the immigration legislation in September.

The ACLU Urged a Vote Against the Legislation
Kerry, Lieberman, Ashcroft, Santorum and many others voted for this...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on National ID Cards
S. 1664
National ID Card - One of the most pervasive themes of the 104th Congress has been proposals to establish a national identification system as a means of tracking undocumented workers, so-called deadbeat dads and to monitor health insurance information. Various database schemes have been included in bills as diverse as
immigration, welfare reform and health insurance. Since these proposals have been buried in much larger legislation, it was often difficult to determine the position of members of Congress. In the House, however, an attempt to eliminate a national
ID system from the immigration bill failed by a vote of 159 to 260. A similar attempt in the Senate failed by a vote of 46 to 54.

The ACLU Urged a Vote Against National ID Cards
Kerry voted FOR this... Even Lieberman, Ashcroft, Lott and Santorum were against this...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senate Vote on Wiretapping
Wiretapping - Although the interception of innocent conversations in federal law enforcement wiretaps is already at record levels, Congress has been repeatedly asked to give the FBI even greater authority to wiretap. Proposals have ranged from providing $500 million to the nation's phone companies to finance a retrofit of their systems to make it easier for the FBI to wiretap to permitting law enforcement agencies to use more "roving" wiretaps (without specifying which phone is to be
tapped), and more "emergency" wiretaps (without obtaining a prior court order).

The ACLU Urged a Vote Against Wiretapping
Kerry voted FOR Wiretapping with Lieberman and his other buddy Santorum...

------------------------------------------------------------
How the Senate Voted on Counter-Terrorism
S. 735
Counter-terrorism - The bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building lifted from obscurity a Clinton Administration proposal to increase the powers of law enforcement in the name of fighting terrorism. The measure gave the government the power to use secret evidence to deport immigrants it accuses of being "terrorists"
and to exclude aliens merely because they are members of a disfavored foreign group. The bill won approval in the Senate by a vote of 91 to 8 and a vote of 293 to 133 in the House.

The ACLU Urged a Vote Against the Legislation
Kerry voted FOR this with Lieberman, Ashcroft and Santorum...

Most of all Sen John Kerry voted for the INVASION of IRAQ... Kerry voting record on these issues is almost as bad as Santorum... Least Santorum voted against national ID cards w/ the likes of Lott and even Ashcroft...

Kerry taps drug war zealot as top adviser
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library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. I'm more impressed with this cut-and-paste smear every time I see it - Not
Out of nine votes listed here, Tom Harkin and Bill Bradley voted with Kerry eight times, Jim Jeffords and Robert Byrd seven times, Ted Kennedy six times, and Paul Simon, Paul Wellstone, and Carol Moseley-Braun four times each. So it's not as if only Ashcroft and Santorum were voting with Kerry. When you pick bills that passed, most of the senators voted for them QED. And these nine are the worst the spammers can come up with, out of hundreds of senate votes. It's a pretty weak attack, when you have the facts.
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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. It's public record...
...based on Kerry's 47% ACLU voting record.

http://archive.aclu.org/vote-guide/Kerry_J.html
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. Dean was rated in the top 5 conservative Govenrors
By the ultra conservative Cato Group:

They even noted that while for the most part, Republicans fare better when it comes to conservatism, a notable exception is Howard Dean:

Overall Fiscal Policy Grade--Pre-1994 Governors
Governor State Score Overall


Fiscal Policy
Grade
Steve Merrill (R) New Hampshire 69 A
Fife Symington (R) Arizona 66 A
William Weld (R) Massachusetts 63 B
Roy Romer (D) Colorado 59 B
Howard Dean (D) Vermont 58 B


Although Republicans tended to do somewhat better (their average grade is C+ versus an average grade of C- for Democrats), there were notable exceptions. Two of the top five pre-1994 governors were Democrats: Roy Romer of Colorado and Howard Dean of Vermont. Two of the five most pro-tax-and-spend old governors were Republicans: George Voinovich of Ohio and Marc Racicot of Montana. The worst fiscal record of the new governors was compiled by Rhode Island Republican Lincoln Almond, who is out of step with his northeastern neighbors.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-257.html


Guess who else's highest grade from the Cato Institute was a "B"

******************************************************************

Current or recent governors of America's most populous states and their grades are: George W. Bush of Texas, "B"; George Pataki of New York, "B"; Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania,"; George Ryan of Illinois, "D"; Bob Taft of Ohio, "D"; John Engler of Michigan, "B"; Bush of Florida,; and Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey, "C." Overall, 16 governors earned a "B" and 16 received a "C."

http://www.cato.org/new/02-01/02-12-01r.html

While Many people cite Howard Dean being elected five times as meritorius, one has to ask who was it who elected him. An insight is given by a Dean advisor, who has been advising him from the start of his career, nearly 30 years:

It’s Business As Usual, Starring HOWARD DEAN
"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.

(St. Petersburg Times, July 6, 2003)

http://www.optimalprime.org/archives/001435.html


******************************************************************


Oh yes, when it comes to accepting money from special interests, and sources outside of Vermont, Howard Dean was reputed to be the master of this in a legal case that was brought to court as a result of Dean's draining the Vemront fund for candidates wanted to run using only Clean Money:

MARCELLA LANDELL, et al., Plaintiffs, NEIL RANDALL, et al., Plaintiffs, and VERMONT REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE, Plaintiff v. WILLIAM H. SORRELL, et al., Defendants, and VERMONT PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP, et al., Defendant-Intervenors
Docket No. 2:99-cv-146
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT
August 10, 2000, Decided
August 10, 2000, Filed


Reports also described allegations that Governor Dean vetoed a pharmacy bill after collecting $ 6,000 in campaign contributions from drug companies

. The influence of out-of-state donations: "Outside money is one of Howard Dean's specialties. Of the $ 312,290 the governor raised for his 1996 election, 65 percent came from out-of-state contributors: labor unions, Washington lawyer-lobbyists, the health care industry, to name a few of the special interests." n13 For the 1994 election "Dean, for example, received more money from major pharmaceutical manufacturers during the reporting period ($ 11,000) thin he did from people and companies located in Burlington ($ 10,460)." n14 One editorial said, "it's no mystery why out-of-state contributors pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into Vermont campaigns. ... They're trying to buy influence. But the cost is public trust." n15

http://www.brookingsinstitution.org/dybdocroot/gs/cf/headlines/cases/LandellvSorrell.DOC

Dean who is attacking "Washington Insiders" for taking money from special interests leaves out himself and his own massive contributions from special interests:

Dean has collected a good deal of his campaign funding from special interests, but he is aware of the last loophole left in campaign contributions, bundling. You have the corporation or wealthy individuals divide multiple contributions into smaller chunks and send them in at different times. Otherwise how could have Dean collected 60,000 from Time Warner:

Candidates help their supporters


Howard Dean's top career patrons are Time Warner, $65,225; Microsoft Corp., $25,100, and IBM Corp., $23,250.

http://www.benningtonbanner.com/Stories/0,1413,104~8676~1880270,00.htm ...

Dean raises money from energy sources
February 27, 2002

By David Gram

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.

Nearly a fifth of the roughly $111,000 collected in its first months by Dean’s presidential political action committee, the Fund for a Healthy America, came from people with ties to Vermont’s electric utilities, according to a recent Federal Elections Commission filing.

It should be no surprise. Dean and utility executives have had a long and friendly relationship.

One donor who gave Dean’s PAC the maximum amount allowed — $5,000 — said he did so because he and his wife “agree with many of the things the fund is talking about — fiscal conservatism, education, health care.”

http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html

Claims that Dean has been given funds by special interests also abound:

seeks details of Dean administration’s talks with utilities
March 11, 2002

(from the State section)
By SUSAN SMALLHEER Southern Vermont Bureau

MONTPELIER — The Conservation Law Foundation will file a freedom of information request with the Dean administration today to find out how many contacts it has had with Vermont utility executives over the pending sale of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant.

Mark Sinclair, senior attorney with the environmental group, said Monday that recent news reports about the financial contributions made by Vermont utility executives or board members to Gov. Howard Dean’s presidential campaign political action committee were “too much of a coincidence.”

Sinclair said the new offer from Entergy Nuclear of Jackson, Miss., last week wasn’t substantially better than the original bid, and doesn’t really address the serious concerns raised by the state earlier this winter about local control and other economic issues.

http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/43924

But there are even more suspect connections, related to a group of Republicans called "Republicans for Dean"

Some Republicans back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER - Democratic Gov. Howard Dean got a boost from the other side Thursday when a group of prominent Republicans turned out to support his re-election bid.

[] by South Burlington attorney William Gilbertcore group of 11 Republicans said they believed Dean has proven his ability to lead the state in a fiscally responsible direction and for that reason, and his nine years of experience, he is their choice over GOP candidate Ruth Dwyer...

Gilbert, a former member of the late Gov. Richard Snelling's administration, said he took the initiative to form the group, which boasts a membership of more than 30 moderate Republicans from around the state who back Dean.

He said the committee would support Dean's candidacy by reaching out to other moderates in the party well as helping Dean with fund-raising.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html




But this william Gilbert it the same William Gilbert who was the head of Deans secret energy task force, and also an executive for Vermont Utilities Companies:

Dean, Cheney And Energy Secrecy

Dean's Vermont re-election campaign received only small contributions from energy executives, but a political action committee created as he prepared to run for president collected $19,000, or nearly a fifth of its first $110,000, from donors tied to Vermont's electric utilities.

One co-chairman of Dean's task force, William Gilbert, was a Republican lawyer who had done work for state utilities. At the time, Gilbert also served on the board of Vermont Gas Systems, a subsidiary of Hydro Quebec.

Many state legislators, including Dean's fellow Democrats, were angered that the task force met secretly.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/26/politics/main590311.shtml




And how universities(who are also special interests) have contributed a significant sum of Dean's total contributions:

Campus cash crucial to candidates
UC faculty, staff are among Democrat Howard Dean's biggest contributors

By Josh Richman, STAFF WRITER

Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean and President George W. Bush are big men on campus when it comes to fund raising, a campaign finance watchdog group has found.

And no U.S. university or college is friendlier to Dean than the University of California, the Center for Responsive Politics found in a study of presidential campaign contributors from the education sector. UC system faculty and staff had anted up $51,124 for the former Vermont governor by Sept. 30, more than twice the amount given by donors from the next-closest university on the list -- Harvard, at $24,150....

Dean collected almost $719,000 from education interests through Sept. 30, ranking that sector third most-lucrative behind retirees ($1.6 million) and lawyers ($932,000).

Among other contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination, education is the 10th most lucrative sector ($325,915) for U.S. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.; eighth ($174,324) for U.S. Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C.; 15th ($107,420) for U.S. Rep. Dick Gephardt, D-Mo.; ninth ($207,640) for U.S. Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn.; third ($119,898) for retired Gen. Wesley Clark; third ($69,809) for U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio; 16th ($3,250) for former U.S. Sen. Carol Moseley Braun; and 18th ($2,990) for the Rev. Al Sharpton.



http://www.sanmateocountytimes.com/Stories/0,1413,87~11268~1870457,00....

So Dean collected significant bundled finds from universities, which could serve these special interests well, as the Higher Education Act, which funds billions of dollars in federal student-aid programs, comes up for reauthorization next year...

And nealy a million from lawyers, who Kerry is being criticized for collecting money from.

as noted, from one special interest group in which Dean collected the most money, Kerry collected the least

Sorry, but Dean is just as guilty of collecting large sums from special interests, just that spending on how your campaign asks the funds to be contributed, can have a rather large effect on how you can claim your finds are donated. Just because you can claim an average of less than 100 dollars per contributor, doesn’t mean you do not have some very rich people contributing 100 dollars 20 times. Or that in order for a large organization to contribute large sums, it doesn’t give money to its employees to donate to campaigns.

This is the way that the Koch Brothers of Koch industries managed to skirt campaign finance laws and contribute nearly 25 million to Bush's 2000 campaign. By contributing 2000 dollars for 11250 of its employees (give them a 2000 bonus to contribute to the cnadidate of their choice and let them know which candidate you expect that to be, using any variety of inducements)





It is interesting how Dean has collected more money from lawyers(law firms) alone, in this last year, that Kerry is accused of having gotten from all special interests in 18 years in congress.

The most interesting factor is that contributions that Kerry rececieved are not directly linked to decisions that Kerry mad in Congress, but Dean's behavior was so flagrantly obvious, that he is being sued so that the people of Vermont can have access to the record of Deans contacts during the time he made deals with people who later contribute to his presidential campaign, leavin the people of Vermont stuck with bill that are running in the hundres of millions of dollars (Hydro-Quebec)


Dean hiimself has absolutely no record of ever standing up to special interests and as the Monsanto case indicates, when Monsanto told Dean that they didnt like a piece of very weak legislation, which set up a voluntary list of dairy's that gave their cows various growth and milk hormones, Dena went from being a supporter of the legislation, to threatening to veto it, after one secret meeting Dean had with Monsanto.

Dean is cetainly involved in colectin money from special interest organizations, but Dean also has members of the special interest organizations who he has taken donations from as advisors to his campaign:

According to studies by campaign finance watchdog groups, Howard Dean and Wesley K. Clark are less dependent than Kerry and Edwards on affluent donors, but they also collect money from corporate officials and rely for guidance on the kind of Washington insiders they criticize.

http://rutlandherald.com/04/Story/78135.html

There are not records from Deans career that will show that Dean actually has ever stood up and fought against any corporation for any abuses they have commited while he was Governor. When Dean vetoed substantial legislation, on a few occasions he passed very weak, "looks like he is doing something" legislation. After vetoing legislation that was designed to control the price gouging of the state and the Citizens of Vermont by Pharmaceutical compaines, Dean passes a rather weak law that prohibits pharmaceutical companies from giving gifts greater than 25 dollars in value to doctors, excepting sample medications. This legislation was regarded as a joke by everyone but Dean. Dean was greatly criticized by Vemront Democrats and Progressives for this useless bill, which did nothing to deal with the real problem, drug companies overcharging for their products.

When it came to gay rights, Dean was never at the forefront of the fight for civil unions but avoided giving any support or response on his stance until he was trapped into doing so.

The same thing with Vermonts Progressive property tax. Dean did not support it, and in fact supported the regressive legislations that the Vermont Supreme Court declared unconstitutional.

No matter how many times they are confronted with these facts about Dean, his campaign and suppoters have no answers for Deans behavior as Governor.

Not a single case of Dean coming forth and creating something new, or presenting a bold new vision for the legislatures he has led, can be found. All Vermont's social and health care legislation were the projects of Deans predecessor, and the liberal Vermont Legislature who created the programs. Dean did all he could to reduce the funding to every one of those programs.

Yet fiscal conservative that he is, when Dean came into office, the state budget was a little over 890 million dollars. The year he left office, the budget was over three billion. Yet Dean did not reduce the number of people living without health insurance. During the ten years he serves as Governor, the poor got poorer, the ,middle class conpletely stagnated, more people moved into poverty(as a matter of fact, the perentage of people who moved into poverty in Vermont while Dean was governor equals the current percentage of people who have gonr from middle class to poverty, yet this was while Bill Clinton was accomplishiing the opposite on a national scale).

The Economic Policy Institute's analysis of Vermont during the 90's show a situation that rather resembles the economic dilemma the nation curently faces:

Vermont at a Glance

Many families in Vermont saw moderate improvements in their standard of living over the 1990s as the wages of median-wage workers grew. However, low-wage workers saw their wages decline over the 1990s, and median income stagnated. The poverty rate and income inequality in Vermont grew over the 1990s (see link below for table).

Median family income for four-person families
Middle-income families in Vermont have not fared particularly well during the current economic expansion. The incomes of families in the middle of the income distribution stagnated over the 1990s. Median family income for four-person families was $53,691 in 1998, compared to its 1989 level of $53,103 (in 1998 dollars).

Income inequality
Income inequality in Vermont grew over the 1990s. In the late 1990s, the income of the wealthiest 20% of families was 8.4 times that of the poorest 20% of families. By comparison, in the late 1980s, the wealthiest 20% of families had 7.4 times the income of the poorest 20%.

Poverty rate
The poverty rate in Vermont grew during the 1990s, from 8.1% in 1987-88 to 9.6% in 1997-98. However, the poverty rate in Vermont in the late 1990s remained below the national rate (13.0% in 1997-98).

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/datazone_states_usmap_vt

The article goes on to state that had it not been for the gains that Vermont experienced Pre-Dean, the effest of Deans ideas on average Vermonters would have been far worse.

While Dean was assiting the wealthiest Vermonters with his economic policy, he also decided to give them a tax treat, and and increase the tax burden on the poor and the middle class:

Vermont’s Tax Code: No Breaks for the Poor and Middle Class
When all Vermont taxes are totaled up, the study found that:


The richest Vermont taxpayers—with average incomes of $686,000—pay 9.7% of their income in Vermont state and local taxes before accounting for the tax savings from federal itemized deductions. After the federal offset, they pay only 7.1%.

Middle-income taxpayers in Vermont—those earning between $27,000 and $44,000—pay 9.8% of their income in Vermont state and local taxes before the federal deduction offset and 9.5% after the offset—much more than what the rich pay.


# Vermont families earning less than $16,000—the poorest fifth of Vermont non-elderly taxpayers—pay 10% of their income in Vermont state and local taxes, one and half times the share the wealthiest Vermonters pay.

“Vermont’s income tax is not progressive enough to offset the regressivity of its sales and excise taxes,” McIntyre said. “Taxes ought to be based on people’s ability to pay them, which means that the share of income paid in taxes should rise as income grows, not fall as is the case in Vermont.”

http://www.itepnet.org/wp2000/vt%20pr.pdf.


Well, people at DFA have copy machines and the Internet.
Fortunately so do the supporters other candidates.

The absolutely great part is that now, nothing Dean throws at Kerry sticks.

Not only does it not stick , but every time Dean makes an accusation, Kerry wins states by every growing margins. In half of yesterdays states, Kerry recived more votes than all of the candidates put togetther. In every state, Kerry received delegates, close to the number of delegates that the winners did in the two states he did not win. In a number of states, Al Sharpton and Joe Lieberman outperformed Howard Dean.

And in the states where Dean is looking to win this weekend, Dean is not only not expected to win, but he is not expected to do well.

Kerry is doing 37 percent in Michigan, Dean 14 percent.

Dean has a web site, and copy machines and so on.
So does everyone else.ANd we can use the just as effectively as DFA.

It shows in the primaries, and it shows in the polls.

And the one factor that is becoming more and more of a detriment to Dean. With each attack he begins, the less electable he appears to be to the electorate.

And all the exit polls over the last nine primaries and caucuses have revealed on thing over all. The electability is the one most important factor in the choices that the majority are making.


Howard Dean just doesnt cut it in that department, to the masses of American voters making thier choices now.

So do continue. It is the best thing that the Dean campaign can do to alift Kerry to sweeping victory.




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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. See post #3. I only want to see HONESTY from DFA for once.
.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Ahhh, silly me
I should have known.

Thanks.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let's have some TRUTH and honest PERSPECTIVE for a change.
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 02:12 PM by blm
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0203.html

John Kerry Ranks 92nd out of the 100 Senators in Contributions from Special Interest PACS and Lobbyists

Bush Raised More Lobbyist Funds in 2003 than Kerry Raised in Career
February 03, 2004
For Immediate Release

Spokane, WA–
While Senator John Kerry has run and won four Senate races over the past 20 years, he ranks about the bottom of the list of current Senators in contributions from PACs and lobbyists.

“George Bush accepted more money last year from lobbyists than John Kerry has in his career,” said Kerry campaign Senior Advisor Michael Meehan.
“John Kerry’s vote is not for sale, period. He is the only current Senator to run four campaigns without taking a dime of special interest PAC money.”

“John Kerry is one of the most successful Democrats over the past two decades and one of the party’s top fundraisers,” Meehan added. “Therefore it is understandable that Kerry, who has raised over $45 million from individuals in 20 years, would lead any particular sub-grouping of individual contributors.

“What is stunning is that despite his successful long service in the Senate, 91 other Senators beat Kerry in contributions from PACs and Lobbyists.”

And heres' some more ENLIGHTENMENT - Kerry has the LEAST amount of special interest money in this race. Truth should hurt, Eloriel.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=7&u=/ap...

Lobbyists Upset by Campaigning Barbs
<snip>An analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics in Washington found that Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, accepted the most campaign money from lobbyists over the past 15 years of anyone in the Senate: about $638,000.

However, an Associated Press review of the candidates' 2003 presidential campaign finance reports found Dean and Edwards among those who accepted lobbyist contributions.

Dean received at least $8,300 from donors identifying themselves as lobbyists; Edwards, at least $6,200; and Kerry, at least $4,500.
Among other Democrats in the race, Joe Lieberman (news - web sites)'s presidential campaign raised at least $40,200 from lobbyists. Wesley Clark (news - web sites), a former lobbyist, collected at least $6,100.
more


If a candidate is going to use donations as an issue, shouldn't they put forth their own data compiled using the exact same formula? All donations over entire career by an individual donors profession and workplace? It seems an honest opponent would do exactly that and compare their records while a demagogue would accuse while obfuscating his own records.

  


  
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Regarding lobbyist contributions during current Presidential campaign...
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 02:25 PM by flpoljunkie
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=7&u=/ap/20040203/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_lobbyists

However, an Associated Press review of the candidates' 2003 presidential campaign finance reports found Dean and Edwards among those who accepted lobbyist contributions.

Dean received at least $8,300 from donors identifying themselves as lobbyists; Edwards, at least $6,200; and Kerry, at least $4,500.

Edwards spokeswoman Jennifer Palmieri said all the lobbyists who gave to Edwards were registered to lobby state governments, not Congress, so he saw "no conflict" in taking the contributions.

Among other Democrats in the race, Joe Lieberman's presidential campaign raised at least $40,200 from lobbyists. Wesley Clark, a former lobbyist, collected at least $6,100.

The lone Republican candidate, President Bush, raised at least $294,000 from lobbyists, his reports show.

_______________________

As you can see, John Kerry received the least lobbyist contributions of the presidential candidates. And, by the way, all special interests are not equal. I believe that environmental groups, such as the League for Conservation Voters, are considered to be special interests as well as groups like Emily's List.

Hell, labor, Hollywood, and trial lawyers are all considered to be special interests, as well. It all depends on whose ox is being gored, as they say.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. And your point is???
Let me guess...Dean is the answer. :eyes:

I'm not enamored with Kerry, but this "A poor guy, with long hair, smoking pot. (Wonderful?)" will not make me support Dean. Wooops, I forgot this line:
Kerry Now: A rich guy, with short hair, nostalgic for those good 'ol pot smoking days. (NOT SO WONDERFUL)

I don't know what you did during these protest days, but I remember. I may not support Kerry but I'm not so far removed from those times that I will bash someone for protests and "pot smoking days." Why do you?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Core and not so old
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 02:22 PM by bigtree
At least we are smart enough to know who the real enemy is.

It's not just who gives you money, it matters what you do with it.


http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-i=1&sp-q=special+interests&sp-a=sp1001847f&sp-x=all&sp-n=11&sp-f=ISO-8859-1&x=6&y=7

John Kerry Ranks 92nd out of the 100 Senators in Contributions from Special Interest PACS and Lobbyists

Bush Raised More Lobbyist Funds in 2003 than Kerry Raised in Career


February 03, 2004
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-i=1&sp-q=special+interests&sp-a=sp1001847f&sp-x=all&sp-n=11&sp-f=ISO-8859-1&x=6&y=7


While Senator John Kerry has run and won four Senate races over the past 20 years, he ranks about the bottom of the list of current Senators in contributions from PACs and lobbyists.

“George Bush accepted more money last year from lobbyists than John Kerry has in his career,” said Kerry campaign Senior Advisor Michael Meehan. “John Kerry’s vote is not for sale, period. He is the only current Senator to run four campaigns without taking a dime of special interest PAC money.”
“John Kerry is one of the most successful Democrats over the past two decades and one of the party’s top fundraisers,” Meehan added. “Therefore it is understandable that Kerry, who has raised over $45 million from individuals in 20 years, would lead any particular sub-grouping of individual contributors.

“What is stunning is that despite his successful long service in the Senate, 91 other Senators beat Kerry in contributions from PACs and Lobbyists.”

Facts on John Kerry and Special Interests

JOHN KERRY'S MONEY: NO ONE BUYS JOHN KERRY’S VOTE

PAC FREE: John Kerry has not taken a dime of PAC money during his four Senate elections or during his presidential race. PACs contribute a huge chunk of the money given to politics. Corporate PACs have given $1.2 billion to campaigns and parties since 1990. Not one dime has gone to John Kerry.

RANKS 92nd IN SENATE: Because Kerry does not take PAC money, he has actually taken LESS special interest money than practically every member of Congress. In fact when contributions from PACs and lobbyists are combined, Kerry ranks 92nd of 100 sitting Senators.

BANS LOBBYISTS: John Kerry has proposed a ban on anyone leaving government office from becoming a lobbyist for five years and would require that every meeting between a federal official and a lobbyist be a matter of public record. He’s sponsored the strongest campaign finance reform measures ever to come before the Senate and gone above and beyond public disclosure requirements every year he has been in the Senate.

FACTS ON OPPONENTS CHARGES
BY 3 to 1, GEORGE BUSH the presidential candidates who has received the most lobbyist funds. To be clear, John Kerry has NOT taken the most money from lobbyists. In fact, George Bush has taken more than three times as much money from lobbyists in the past year alone as Kerry has, and managed to reward them handsomely for it too -- at the expense of the environment, our economy and the middle class.

BUSH took more money from lobbyists in 2003, than John Kerry has in his entire career. If you add up all the money John Kerry’s opponents say he has taken from lobbyists over his career, it amounts to just barely more than one percent of his total contributions.

JOHN KERRY HAS FOUGHT SPECIAL INTERESTS IN THE SENATE
John Kerry has taken aim at the mutual fund scandals and developed a plan to restore ethics, integrity, and honesty to business and government by holding corporate America accountable. His plan will stop unfair trading practices, protect shareholders, and assure that all investors get a fair deal. John Kerry has stood up for corporate responsibility, proposing a three-point plan that would ensure that investors are no longer exploited to benefit a powerful few by the mutual fund industry, by helping individual investors recover losses with new RICO penalties.

John Kerry will continue to stand up to prescription drug companies by reducing drug prices by ending loopholes that prevent generics from coming to the market, ensuring that seniors without prescription drug coverage don’t pay more, saving money by reducing prescription drug errors, and giving seniors a real prescription drug benefit that doesn’t reward big drug companies.

John Kerry stood up to corporate polluters when Newt Gingrich tried to roll back our nations clean air and water laws. He’s proposed new protections that would ensure that all communities have clean air and water and would force big corporations to clean up the messes they have made.

MORE EXAMPLES OF JOHN KERRY STANDING UP TO SPECIAL INTERESTS

Banks and credit card companies:
John Kerry voted against the Bankruptcy bill that was a major priority for banks and credit card companies. He also helped protect redlining rules that banks would like to weaken. Banks have also lobbied hard against money laundering laws that John Kerry has written and worked to pass.

Media companies and broadcasters:
John Kerry opposes Bush’s attempt to weaken the media ownership rules that would help large media conglomerates. He also insisted on strong consumer friendly conditions on the AOL-Time Warner merger.

Computers and High Tech:
John Kerry supported strong consumer friendly Internet Privacy legislation that high tech and Internet companies opposed. He has also resisted calls to block rules that would require the expensing of stock options, a top priority of donors in the high-tech community

Oil companies:
John Kerry has fought to implement higher fuel economy standards and blocked plans to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve

Telecommunications and wireless:
John Kerry supported Do Not Call legislation, which phone companies and marketers worked against. He opposed a 1999 amendment that would change FCC accounting policies in a way that would allow Baby Bells to raise rates. And last year, Kerry wrote a letter to Verizon opposing the position that the company was taking in a labor dispute.


:: John Kerry for President - Kerry: Bush Chooses Special Interests Over the Public Interest On Power Plants ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_0822c.html

:: John Kerry for President - John Kerry: Protecting Police, Not Special Interests ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1109d.html

:: John Kerry for President - Ending the Special Interest Economy and Fighting for an Economy that Works for Iowans ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1220a.html

:: John Kerry for President - Bush Turns Double Play for Special Interests ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1203a.html

:: John Kerry for President - “Ending the Era of Special Interests” ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0121.html

:: John Kerry for President - Statement From John Kerry On GAO Report on Special Interests Writing America's Energy Plan :: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_0826a.html

:: John Kerry for President - Small Business v. Special Interests ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1118.html

John Kerry Pledges to End Era of Special Interest Delivers Major Speech Outlining Steps to Make Health Care A Right
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0121b.html

:: John Kerry for President - JOHN KERRY’S PLAN TO END THE ERA OF SPECIAL INTERESTS ::
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/eraofspecialinterests/index.html

John Kerry today outlined his plan to end the Bush Special Interest Economy
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0114f.html


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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Thank you
:)
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. 12 Legislative Accomplishments of John Kerry:
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 02:25 PM by bigtree

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0130d.html

12 Legislative Accomplishments of John Kerry:

Cosponsored Gramm-Rudman-Hollings bipartisan deficit reduction Act. Kerry was one of the earliest Democrats to sign on to the effort to address the growing budget deficit.


Secured assistance for families of Agent Orange victims: Kerry cosponsored and worked to pass the Agent Orange Benefits Act to extend health care benefits to children of Vietnam Veterans who suffer from spina bifida. <1995 VA-HUD Approp>


Passed international anti-money laundering law: John Kerry proposed and passed anti-money laundering amendment that forced negotiations with foreign banks to keep records of US currency transactions of $10,000 & up and established penalties for countries engaged in money laundering. <1988: S Amdt 3697, HR 5210, #374, passed 85-3>


Introduced bill to significantly increase commitment to fighting HIV/AIDS: Kerry introduced, along with Senator Bill Frist (R-TN), the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act. The bill would increase the U.S. governments funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.


Passed law addressing nurse shortage: Kerry introduced and passed the Nurse Reinvestment Act, to address the current shortage of Nurses in the medical profession.


Expanded early childhood development efforts: Kerry introduced legislation to expand state and local early childhood development efforts, including education, child care and health care for children between birth and six years old. At the end of 2000, a version of this bipartisan legislation was signed into law. .


Strengthened protection of seals, dolphin, whales and other marine mammals: Kerry sponsored legislation that extended and strengthened laws protecting Marine Mammals from commercial fishing.


Introduced plan that expanded childrens health insurance coverage: Kerry and Kennedy drafted an innovative plan to help states expand health care coverage for children in the 104th Congress. Their plan served as the framework for the Childrens Health Insurance Program in 1997


Instrumental in passing last minimum wage increase: Kerry was instrumental in passing the last increase in the minimum wage to $5.15 per hour in 1997.


Led fight to defeat Republican regulatory reform that threatened to roll back environmental and safety regulations: Kerry was a leader on the Senate floor to stop Republican efforts to roll back labor, environmental and consumer safety regulations under the guise of regulatory reform.


Led inquiry into savings and loan cleanup: Kerry conducted hearings into waste fraud and abuse in the RTC, the agency responsible for cleaning up the S&L scandal. (1993-94)


Boosted COPS and Police Corps funding: Kerry successfully lobbied the Senate and the administration to move funding from $5.9 billion to $22.2 billion over four years, with the goal of putting 100,000 new cops on the street. He also succeeded in boosting funding for Police Corps scholarship program.
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JasonDeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Thank you for posting this. I'll keep it as a good reminder.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. yuck
but I knew most of this already....(shaking head)
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. I oppose NCLB
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 02:33 PM by Virgil
I am for dismantling of the entire Department of Education. States can run their own schools. If they left the money in the states to start with their would be more to work with.

Does anyone know the story of the Houston school system and the lies on its reporting that made it seem like the schools were succeeding when it was just Enron accounting? NCLB says childrem must be on grade level. If they are not it just means fail them. Maybe it was to create vouchers where schools are failing, which by the parameters, almost all schools are failing. There was nothing great about NCLB. It was an unfunded mandate that raised my property taxes. Abolish the Department of Education and leave the money in the states.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. John Kerry Releases Fundraiser Names
John Kerry Releases Fundraiser Names in Effort to Improve Transparency
Challenges Democratic Rivals to Follow His Lead
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1021b.html

October 21, 2003

Donor List
PDF Format
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/donors.pdf

Democratic Presidential Candidate John Kerry today released the names of supporters who raised over $50,000 for his presidential campaign. The list has been posted for the public on his web-site at www.johnkerry.com

John Kerry said, “Throughout my career I have fought for reform in the campaign finance system and I believe strongly that voters should know who is funding campaigns. There is no better reason for transparency than the Bush Administration’s blatant reward of campaign contributors with tax breaks and special favors at every turn.”

“I hope that every Presidential candidate will show their commitment to transparency by releasing the same information from their campaigns.”

The Washington Post said, “Mr. Kerry's release of the names puts him in the forefront of meaningful disclosure

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. excellent job by John Kerry
I'd like "sunshine" for all the candidates.
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JasonDeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kerry on his worst day is better than bush* on his best.
I refuse to get my information from those whose breath stinks because they've stuck their heads so far up bush*s ass. I'll listen to Kerry and Clark and maybe Edwards to get my information thank you. I refuse to listen to those who savaged Al Gore and give them credibility.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
43. Which isn't much of an endorsement at all
Not at all.
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capriccio Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Helpful hint
For those of you committed to caviling against Kerry, may I suggest the Kaus files at MSN (Slate). Even though it's owned and operated by the corporate elite, it's a clearing house of anti-Kerry material (hard to believe, huh?) It's sort of one-stop shopping for those who can't sleep at night trying to come up with more than skull & bones spookafying to rationalize your tacit support of George W. Bush. And you don't even have to dirty yourselves getting your mud from the likes of Rich Lowry, editor of NRO and right-winger deluxe(see above). Like you, Mickey Kaus is pathological in his hatred of Kerry, so he does it all for you. Don't be confused by the fact that the last time Kaus was this passionate about anything, however, was when he was promoting the Iraq War. (Oh, I forget, you folks aren't confused by anything in your black and white world, are you?)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. heheh....
dare I say....BINGO
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. more simply
Don't be confused by facts. Just hate Kerry irrationally. It seems to work that way so well for so many. :eyes:

Great post, and welcome to DU.
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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Great post? He makes personal attacks and you urge him on?
:wtf:
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Red_Storm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. and it gets uglier and uglier.............

so, i'm supposed to fall in line and vote for Kerry........
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. No. See the truth in post #3.
Or fall for DFA spin. Your choice.
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Red_Storm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Spin?

Kerry voted for the Iraq War, Spin?

Kerry voted for the Patriot Act, Spin?

Kerry voted for NAFTA, Spin?

Kerry received more money from special interests groups than anyone else in Congress, Spin?

Kerry voted for Internet Censorship, Spin?


and on and on..........
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Special interest money spin. DFA is NOT being honest.
John Kerry Ranks 92nd out of the 100 Senators in Contributions from Special Interest PACS and Lobbyists

Bush Raised More Lobbyist Funds in 2003 than Kerry Raised in Career
February 03, 2004
For Immediate Release

Spokane, WA–
While Senator John Kerry has run and won four Senate races over the past 20 years, he ranks about the bottom of the list of current Senators in contributions from PACs and lobbyists.

“George Bush accepted more money last year from lobbyists than John Kerry has in his career,” said Kerry campaign Senior Advisor Michael Meehan.
“John Kerry’s vote is not for sale, period. He is the only current Senator to run four campaigns without taking a dime of special interest PAC money.”

“John Kerry is one of the most successful Democrats over the past two decades and one of the party’s top fundraisers,” Meehan added. “Therefore it is understandable that Kerry, who has raised over $45 million from individuals in 20 years, would lead any particular sub-grouping of individual contributors.

“What is stunning is that despite his successful long service in the Senate, 91 other Senators beat Kerry in contributions from PACs and Lobbyists.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And heres' some more ENLIGHTENMENT - Kerry has the LEAST amount of special interest money in this race.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=7&u=/ap ...

Lobbyists Upset by Campaigning Barbs
<snip>An analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics in Washington found that Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, accepted the most campaign money from lobbyists over the past 15 years of anyone in the Senate: about $638,000.

However, an Associated Press review of the candidates' 2003 presidential campaign finance reports found Dean and Edwards among those who accepted lobbyist contributions.

Dean received at least $8,300 from donors identifying themselves as lobbyists; Edwards, at least $6,200; and Kerry, at least $4,500.

Among other Democrats in the race, Joe Lieberman (news - web sites)'s presidential campaign raised at least $40,200 from lobbyists. Wesley Clark (news - web sites), a former lobbyist, collected at least $6,100.
>>>>>

If a candidate is going to use donations as an issue, shouldn't they put forth their own data compiled using the exact same formula? All donations over entire career by an individual donors profession and workplace? It seems an honest opponent would do exactly that and compare their records while a demagogue would accuse while obfuscating his own records.
  
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. Kerry helped AIG profit on the big dig
But the spin is he made sure $128 million in overpayments on UNNECESSARY insurance was not refunded as it 'would have hurt his constituents'. Kerry made sure AIG was allowed to invest that money in the stock market and take profits. And just how did this benefit the people of Boston and MA?

Spin? Spiiiin? Spiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks Eloriel. This guy needs real scrutiny.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. "Some More Creative Misinterpretation" would be a better title
for this thread.


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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. Eloriel, welcome back....I thought you had decided to leave,
what made you change your mind? So Kerry's the "enemy" now, eh?

It must really piss you off that the majority of voting Democrats are clearly rallying around John Kerry, who will be the elected the next President of the United States!

Thanks for the education, but Kerry's been on my radar screen for 35 years....I'll go with what I know. Always easier to shoot down a person with a record than a person with a promise.

When you do your next "I'm leaving DU" announcement, will you be telling us that your conscience dictates supporting Ralph Nader in the general election?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. That is a nasty post.
So, she came back. Do you believe all people who change their mind should be banned from your sight, or from coming back to DU?

The majority has not yet spoken, so you shouldn't say so.

Dean is only a "promise" not a "record?" Try that again...he has a record of health care and civil unions in his state...on the record.

Attacking the messenger isn't allowed here. But you knew that.
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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Eloriel said she was taking a break from DU and so she did.
Show us where she stated she was leaving DU for good, would you please? Thanks ever so much!!
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. this sounds like a desperate
plea. I'm not a huge Kerry fan, in fact his speeches bore me, but to keep bashing over what appears to be desperate attempts to "prop" up Dean in a better light, just isn't going to get Dean the votes he wants. It looks more like sour grapes. I was actually beginning to feel sorry for Dean, 'cause I do think he deserves alot of credit for getting the Democrats up on their feet, however, now with all the bashing of other candidates that he seems to be doing, I just pity him.

Glad we see this before he became the nominee...guess that is why the other candidates are winning states.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I contributed $ to Dean's campaign early on, but when Kerry
announced, I truly believed he was the man to really take it to Bush and the RNC. I respect the Dr's message and sharp rhetoric that was needed to rally Democrats and provide a counter message to Bush in 2003, but ultimately, I think we have better choices to beat Bush.

I'm afraid that Dean has been done is as much by his supporters as by his own failures to win caucuses and primaries. I have seen some pretty rabid/vicious attacks made by Dean supporters on this board and, if this is how they've conducted themselves "on the street", they might be surprised to know that they could be a big contributor to the Dr.'s demise.
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Umm. Are you saying you were unaware that Kerry was running
until his official announcement speech? He'd been running for months and months by that point. The speech in front of the ship was a re-launch of an ongoing campaign.

It strikes me as somewhat strange that anyone could miss that Kerry was running when he was the front runner in the eyes of most knowledgeable Dems at that point.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. OAITW, I thought you'd been watching Kerry for 35 years. Didn't know he
was running? :shrug:
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. well you convinced me to give up support for Kerry and switch to Dean
not!

:)
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. ewww. but he's "better than bush" ?!?
sorry but..
being "better than bush" (which he is) is NOT good enough.
i expect more..

eeesh man,
ive got snails out in the garden that are "better than bush".
i cant see that as a valid argument.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. Would Kerry be an acceptable pick as
Howard Dean's running mate, or would his 'skeletons' come out of the closet to derail the mighty Dean? Inquiring minds want to know...
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CalProf Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
45. It's precisely this sort of thing that drives people away from Dean
"A lot of people, especially Kerry's core constituency, are older folks who aren't doing thorough research on the internet. They are at the mercy of the corporate press. - so it is doubly important we infom. So fire up your printers and photocopiers patriots. We have unprecedented capabilities, it's time to use them!"


Those poor older folks who just aren't hip enough to have a T-1 line and endless hours to wander the byways of the Internet need to be educated. They are at the mercy of the corporate media.

Never mind that the links then adduced to prove the wonders of the Internet are all merely online versions of....

corporate media.

Listen: A goodly number of us "older folk" have been paying close attention to politics out there on the streets for thirty odd years. Many of us have been following Kerry, and Dean, for a long time. Many of us were intrigued that much of Dean's rise was fueled by attention from the horrific corporate media. Many of us know at least as much about issues and campaigns as you do. And many of us decided to vote for somebody else.

It doesn't mean we're misinformed. It doesn't mean we're deluded.

It means we chose another candidate. That's all it means. This sort of thing happens in politics. You lose at least as often as you win. That's something us "older folk" have learned the hard way. If you younger Dean supporters plan to change the world, I would encourage you to do so, but remember that you'll lose at least as many battles as you'll win.

The question for you now is whether this is your last battle or your first one.

I hope it's only the first, but that's your choice.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. we're all a bunch of stupid fucks who need to read more conspiracy sites
so that we may be informed.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Didn't you get the memo?
Kerry supporters are uninformed idiots that allow the media (a conspiracy) to make their choice of candidate for them. If you chose Dean, then you are intelligent and informed.

Interesting how this thread follows the same tactics that are proving to be Deans downfall - instead of informing on Deans positions, it seeks to attack -- propagandize an distort anothers record. Just what turns voters off.

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D G Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. EXACTLY. Thank you for saying
what I have been wanting to say but could not think of a concise (or polite) way of saying it.

If people think preaching this kind of stuff attracts anyone other than the choir, they are in for a shock. Or maybe they've already received the shock in the primaries to date.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. "Kerry's core constituency are older folks..."
Hmmm...Well, why has Kerry captured the youth vote in the primaries and caucuses so far?
Possibly, self-delusion at DFA? Hmmm...
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
48. thank you for this valuable service for the old folks
Very selfless of you to dig up dirt on John Kerry for them.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. Great To See You Again, Eloriel.
And here's just a infinitesimal samplings of the results of voting to give a mad man the power to wage war on poor people:

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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
50. Interesting post!
I'm terrified he will get the nomination and Bush will take his 100 million dollars and chew him up and spit him out.
Where is the substance? Or, as Fritz Mondale said, "where is the meat?" I just don't see it.
I heard a correspondent on NPR say Kerry's legislative record -for 19 years in the Congress - was "very thin" - imagine what that means - what was he doing - just taking up space?
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capriccio Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Actually it was beef
Mondale said, "Where's the beef?"

And while I'm helping you out here, here's an antidote for that terror you're feeling about the November election...just dedicate yourself to ABB.
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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
51. Pot smoking is not a bad thing
Ask Clinton, some people will let it slide if you play it right.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
55. Okay, for Kerry. But I wonder what Dean's vision is? Hmmmm.
If Dean would have concentrated more on creating, defining, and explaining his vision, he'd be the frontrunner right now and not Kerry.

Dissing the other candidates doesn't work. BTW, I'm not a Kerry supporter.
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D G Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank goodness the Dean campaign is taking the high road
I would hate to see them start attacking other candidates :eyes:

May I also add, that the Internet is not some sort of panacea for misinformed voters. There is as much, if not more, misinformation on the Internet as there is in any other medium.
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