Something comical just occurred to me re: immigration

[zbdent]

Many (if not all the nuts) reichwingers have been spouting off about "illegal immigration" - essentially, their argument is this:

"Why don't people understand? Illegal means illegal!!!"

Uh, maybe someone should remind them that, yes, illegal is illegal . . . so their pResident should be thrown in jail, too . . . "Illegal is Illegal" must be the new "Rule of Law" argument . . . to be tossed aside when their guy gets caught . . .

[The Deacon]

1. Couldn't we just send them back to wherever it was they came from?

Pluto, I'm guessing.

[PATRICK]

2. Illegal Americans should

be held to the higher standard. Especially employers and government officials. How else to impress visitors from another country who think(how COULD they get the idea?) that there is a natural understanding between the two nations that under the table, across the border labor IS the primary arrangement? That notion and that long practice of convenience is not their fault at all and they certainly do not get much out of it compared to anyone else, such as American business, the two governments.

And how often can we impress upon the idiotic RW that simple math can uphold the entire law if applied to the minority that controls this situation. The two governmental bodies and the relatively small number of illegal employers. Millions of impossible to suppress desperate people versus a few crooks. Would that the drug war was that simple!

Or maybe the RW wants to burn millions of invading poor people on top of heaps of confiscated marijuana. Hateful enjoyment is one thing, doing anything real about the "problem" is quite another.

[zbdent]

3. my main point was

if "illegal means illegal", or "what part of illegal don't you understand",

then why do the reichies support Bush's "illegal wiretapping"? That's "illegal", so it's illegal . . . by their own logic . . .

[PATRICK]

7. Their logic system is irrational

Sophistry is the use of technique to win rational arguments. However, the full abuse of sophistry has been lazily cast aside by the brute use of power. They marveled and reveled long ago in this power to lie to forgive Reagan everything and Carter and Clinton be forgiven nothing, especially the lies made up to take them down.

That is immediately beneath the charade of surface language that so amazes people who value thinking over deterministic power. When and if they swallow their own charade as reality, then they are truly insane. Either way, making points with them is impossible. Either they mock you because it is a power game of being able to decide what is what regardless of truth, or you face someone virtually insane and dangerous. You think you are arguing the point with them when they already know the truth or are incapable of understanding it. You are either a dupe to argue with someone who is only interested in beating you over your head or you think that humoring a madman(out of wisdom and compassion) is a rational argument.

Nor does the news media help because they officiate to maintain the illusions of debate, thereby, and all too often in full complicity,conceding the real game or irrational madness to those who hold unbending ascendancy on a whole other field than reason or truth.

But then to make the point about the abuse of the term "illegal". You are right. And since truth has the more genuine power, keep repeating it in its own right and keep assaulting power with more and more evidence. If it was just about winning according to the rules of language and debate they would all be working for Mickey D's and the their places would be closing for selling nutritional poison.

[AzDar]

4. If one commits a crime, one should expect to be held accountable.

This standard should prevail whether one has entered the country illegally, or invades sovereign nations and commits genocide.
Illegal IS illegal.

[WildClarySage]

5. You silly... it's only them furriners who have to answer to the law.

Furriners and libruls.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. You do see the amusing flip-side don't you?

"Why should anyone have to ask the government's permission to seek freedom?"

This applies only to non-citizens, apparently. Using extralegal means to do what feels good is only punished if the punishment can be applied without risk of being called a xenophobe (or worse).

I'd like to introduce you to a logical consistency; Bush should occupy a cell AND illegal immigrants should occupy their native country. Illegal is illegal.