I am still holding out hope for Dean

[Cascadian]

I think he will pull it off in Washington. He still has a ton of support up here and the reason for his problems is the media and certain people in the DNC. The reason? Dean is not in the pocket of corporations and cannot be bought. Plus he is a straight shooter. It is interesting that Kerry is taking the same tactics and speeches that Dean has been using. If Dean does withdraw, watch Kerry go back to the same old business as usual rhetoric. I truly think this will hurt the Democrats in November. I will vote for Kerry but don't expect much enthusiasm from me.

John

[FreeperSlayer]

1. This may seem cold...

...but the DNC and the "media" don't cast votes. Is it the sheeple mentality? I'm not sure, but he's just not polling as well as a couple of others right now.

[Indiana_Dem]

2. I'll second that!

I am hoping for something good for Dean this weekend!! I will be praying he does well. My hope isn't dead yet. My primary isn't until May 4th so I'm going to have to wait to get my vote in! I wish so much Indiana could vote sooner! So many I talk to around here like Dean! I sure hope he can stay in until then! He didn't do badly, at least he got in the top 3 in most states! I'm not going to complain about that! He, Clark and Edwards all have a fair chance at this point. Secondly, I like Clark and hope he can make it all the way through. This campaign needs to stay active so the media cannot start picking the frontrunner apart! I'm also so happy Clark got Oklahoma. He worked so hard for it!

[Ninga]

3. Edwards and Clarks victories

show that there are some independent thinkers out there. Congratulations to them and their supporters.
Now I hope all of the Dean voters take the opportunity to cast their votes in favor of true change.

Bless us all, and Go Howard.

[BigDaddyLove]

4. So then if someone votes for Kerry the are not.......

independent thinkers?

That doesn't seem like a fair assessment.

[stuzzy]

7. May not be fair...

but it sounds about right to me.

[BigDaddyLove]

8. Sad.

.

[AntiCoup2K4]

38. That all depends

Were you always going to vote for Kerry, or did you arrive at that conclusion after the media and the DLC proclaimed him the second coming of Christ?

[daveskilt]

16. hoping for dean

I tend to fall on the side of not wanting Dean as the nominee but he has made the race better and he has made the other candidates better. It is important not only for him to stay in the race but he has to stay relevant. The only way for that to happen is for a win in the next 2 weeks. The media dont cast the votes but they direct traffic in terms of donations and who gets their message out. I would for example have never considered Kerry or read his stuff on his website had it not been for the massive media coverage. (granted this came from his win in tiny spoiled and pointless Iowa where people voted)

So go Howard give em hell! win in washington and keep the other guiys honest.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stuzzy]

6. The reality is....

that the primaries aren't over yet, and Kerry sucks.

[BigDaddyLove]

9. The Primaries may not be over.......

but they're over for Dean.

R.I.P.

[AntiCoup2K4]

39. How in fucking Hell do you arrive at such a mistaken conclusion?

90% of the delegates are still up for grabs. This is still a wide open contest for anyone still in the race. Dean has as much chance in those states as anyone. He just needs to drown out the mediawhore lies

ABB - Anybody But Bonesmen

[Democat]

10. I understand they aren't over, but the writing is on the wall

Keep on fighting for your candidate. However, try not to destroy the person who will probably be up against Bush in the process.

Kerry is not my first choice, but I am willing to accept the reality that my first choice is probably not going to win. The last thing I am interested in doing is trying to destroy or undermine the candidate who we will all need to support if we want Bush out of office.

If you want to change the Democratic Party, why would you give up just because Dean loses the nomination?

Do you care more about Howard Dean or about changing the party and the country?

Getting rid of Bush is just a first step in a long process. Dean will still be around in 2008, let's work to make sure Bush will be living in Texas long before then.

[Eloriel]

31. Why not try to destroy him?

That's what we Dean supporters have put up with up til now.

It somehow now would be UNFAIR if that kind of treatment is aimed at the target-rich Kerry?

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. Kerry is a lot of things, but sucks isn't one of them

At least he didn't run and hide after the first two states.

[goobergunch]

12. Like Kerry's been hiding from the Senate Chamber for the last two years?

If he gets the nomination, he really ought to resign so we can get a Dem in that seat for the 109th Congress.

[THUNDER HANDS]

14. how?

isn't the governor of Mass. a Republican?

[GumboYaYa]

13. No Kerry ran and hid when it was time to take a stand against

No Child Left Behind and the invasion of Iraq. Sorry, but those are two things that really mattered to me and Kerry let me and millions of others down.

[THUNDER HANDS]

15. and now he has an opportunity to fix them

I mean, Ted Kennedy was No Child Left Behind. You wanna fault a Dem for that, look to him, not Kerry.

[GumboYaYa]

28. How do you "fix" over 500 dead Americans and

thousands of dead Iraqis killed in a needless war? I'd like to hear you explain that to the parents and children of the people killed in Iraq.

[Democat]

32. You don't fix it by helping Bush get elected in 2004

That's what some Dean supporters are saying they want.

How can anyone possibly complain about Americans dying in Bush's war, and then also say they want to help Bush get another four years in the White House? It doesn't make sense.

[GumboYaYa]

36. Excuse me, but where did I say I want GWB elected.

That's a strawman argument and is not applicable.

Somehow Kerry supporters have convinced themselves that Dean supporters are trying to sabatoge the Dems. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

You guys have held us to a higher standard of loyalty than any other campaign and we continue to meet and exceed it. Our candidate has added his suppport for the eventuial nominee to his stump speech because of all the unfounded accusations. Has Kerry ever said he would support Dean if Dean is the nominee?

IMO, you owe the vast majority of Dean supporters an apology for the completely unfounded accusations you have made.

[Democat]

40. That is not a "strawman" - it is a fact

Have you been reading DU lately? Many Dean supporters say they won't vote for Kerry if he is the Democrat nominated.

That is just as bad as the Nader supporters in 2000.

Not only that, but read this article where some Dean supporters say they would rather have Bush in office because it would teach the Democrats a lesson:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/02/04/deaniacs/index.html

"Maybe in four years the Democratic Party will learn something," says Platt. "Maybe it takes another four years for it to hit rock bottom before they will wake up and smell the coffee." Platt is echoed by Nancy Fulton, a 39-year-old mother of three from Santa Monica, Calif., who says that rather than vote for Kerry, "I might be happier impeaching Bush if he took a second term."

[GumboYaYa]

41. You have extrapolated from the words of a few posters

on an internet board to malign a movement that involves thousands of people.

In the real world where I work with hundreds of Dean supporters each week, I can not name one who would agree with the sentiment of the few you have quoted. Perhaps, it is time to sign-off the computer and stop basing your opinions on a few malcontents at DU.

[Democat]

42. I am not even a Kerry supporter

I don't think that all Dean supporters think like that, but too many of them do. Look at one of the polls on DU about whether people plan to vote for Kerry if he is nominated - over 30% of DUers said they will not.

I can't believe anyone who really believes in making America better would even consider not voting for the person who runs against Bush. Do these people really want to make America better or do they just want their guy to win?

Kerry may not be the perfect candidate, but he is 1000% better than Bush.

[GumboYaYa]

44. Well, you told me that I did not have the right to protest the

war in Iraq, because I want to elect a person as President who opposed the war in Iraq.

You accused me of wanting to elect Bush, when I have consistently said I would vote for anyone over Bush. Forgive me and other Dean supporters for wanting to hold true to our principles on the war and other issues, but don't interpret that to mean we want to reelect GWB.

To support your claims you point to posts on DU. I still contend that the world is much larger than the small communitty here. DU gets the diehards. The vast majority of people in the Dean movement are nowhere close to as passionate as DUers. Your generalizations malign a lot of good people and IMO you owe them an apology.

One thing is for sure though, I have been a vehement opponent of the war in Iraq and I do have the right to criticize that war regardless of who I support in the Dem primary.

[LuminousX]

Oh, yeah, that makes me REAL eager to back Kerry.

Keep it up. Probably far better not to say anything negative about any candidate, especially when your candidate is in the lead. That is when you are should start considering how you can help heal the rifts. But since you are addicted to putting salt in wounds, you will reap the consequences of it.

[Democat]

43. Dean supporters are allowed to slam Kerry, but not the other way around?

That makes sense.

[Straight Shooter]

17. I will continue to support Howard Dean

Howard Dean has done more to change the political landscape in the last year or so than John Kerry. Blah blah blah Kerry's record. He's from a liberal state, so of course he's got a liberal voting record or he wouldn't have stayed in office very long, would he?

I think Kerry is duplicitous, I think he'll do or say anything to get elected. I can't figure out exactly who he is, no matter how much I read about him. But I have determined this much: Kerry has to be right in the middle of a situation before he can figure out whether it's right or wrong. He actually had to go to Nam to know it was wrong when America was already in the throes of debate; is that correct, or not? We had to be in a quagmire in Iraq before he recognized it would be a mess, that it was wrong; is that correct, or not? He's supposed to be so savvy about politics, but he keeps making skewed decisions of vital national interest, and you want me to support him?

Kerry can't see the forest for the trees. Pure and simple. That is why I cannot support him.

Dean, Clark, Kucinich, Edwards. Not Kerry. I have the same visceral reaction to him as I did to bush.

[dtseiler]

18. My Problem with Dean

I used to feel bad that Dean wasn't doing as well as he hoped. But then he put on a clinic on the fine art of being a sore loser. Re-capped last night by calling Kerry and Edwards republicans. And his "my voters are not transferrable" line is the equivalent of "take my ball and go home" mentality of the playground.

Blame it on the media that I'm reading, but all I hear from Dean lately is attacks on others, and not what he wants to do. I think _that_ is what is turning people off to him.

[Straight Shooter]

22. Dean did not call them Republicans

This was clearly refuted by an Edwards supporter, who enlightened another Kerry supporter that Dean referred to them as insiders.

And thank you so much for repeating Republican talking points and calling Dean a "sore loser." How about I repeat Kerry's Senate nickname, "Cash and Carry"?

:shrug:

[blm]

24. That's not true. Kerry ranks 91 out of 100 accepting money and

considering he's been there for 19 years, that is amazing.

Tell the truth about the way they came up with those figures Dean used.

If Dean was an HONEST opponent he would release his numbers based on the same lifetime formula he uses against Kerry. But...he is NOT HONEST and will never do it while he and his supporters smear Kerry relentlessly with a BOGUS charge.

The biggest corpoartist whore in the race is Howard Dean based on the TRUTH of his record as governor. Those who believe his campaign year anarchist rhetoric are being sorely misled.

Kerry has the cleanest money of all the candidates and the LEAST amount of special interest money that NEVER went to his campaign but to a personal pac that donates to other organizations, charity and group GOTV efforts and other campaigns.

Dean lies and smears and his followers parrot his false accusations.

[nancyharris]

29. Sorry...

But last night in his address in Washington Governor Dean, when talking about why he would win the nomination specifically said that his opponents “act like Republicans most of the time”. He also again said that he was the “only” candidate who was against the war in Iraq.

[Kira]

19. Does anyone have anyone polls

that can give me some hope for Dean in the upcoming races? How does he look in California and New York?

[Straight Shooter]

23. Hi, Kira, don't get your hope from the polls, get it from your heart

O8)

And don't throw your hope over the bridge yet. If Dean were not being tested, he would not be worthy as a President.

[Kira]

37. I still have hope

and my heart still belongs to Dean. I would like to see some encouraging signs that something will go our way soon. :)

GO DEAN!

[Beaker]

20. so is Alex Doonesbury...

[DianeK]

21. as a dean supporter...

i think i owe it to him and to the future of this country to let him follow his strategy through and give him 100% support as he does so..just because it has never been done before does not mean that it can not be done..this campaign has never been about 'politics as usual' and that is just one thing about it that has attracted me to support dean..it's dean all the way until the delegate count tells us it's over

[Zech Marquis]

25. don't start the blame game again

these are fellow democrats and others who are sick and tired of being lied to by * and the BFEE. And no BBV either. If Kerry or Edwards wins next week here in VA, I'll be one of those voters making my voice heard.

[Ripley]

26. It's not a matter of "hope."

Why can't people let the primaries run their course before deciding "Kerry is King" just because the talking heads say so. Haven't only 10% of the people spoken? Would anyone expect the Dem nominee to drop out of the GE if Smirkaholic was ahead in the first 10% of states reporting?

This has gotten to be so juvenile.

The reality is Dean will win more delegates despite the attacks from the media and the DLC and other candidates...enough to win it all? Don't know yet.

One thing is sure, no one but Clark deserves to be Dean's VP after the way they gang-banged him.

[K-W]

27. Straight Shooter?

What on earth are you talking about. Dean is a politician. He is no different than any other politician in this race. He has his secrets, he tells his lies and half truths. There is absolutely no justification in his record or even his platform to portray him as a radical candidate who isnt beholden to anyone.

Get your head out of the dirt. If you want to support Kucinich, support kucinich, but stop pretending Dean is Kucinich. Dean is a moderate democrat middle of the road politician who took the intentional strategy of portraying himself as an outsider because he was never going to get nominated as what he actually is. Stop buying into the hype. His platform is not significantly different than Kerry's, nor is his political career one of progressive idealism.

[Straight Shooter]

34. Hey K-W

My head isn't in the dirt, nor is it in the clouds. I know very well that Dean isn't Kucinich. I know damn well he is a moderate. Don't preach to me about Dean.

Kucinich appeals to a side of me that Dean does not, but Dean appeals to me more. I think he's a man who represents family values more than Kerry, and I like his style better. I think he's downright prescient when it comes to what's looming on the horizon, and Kerry needs to be smacked up the side of the head with something before he can acknowledge it.

I've never attacked a supporter personally, of any candidate. I have my opinion based on many things. Most of all, I detest Kerry because he came back after two short tours which weren't available as options to my father and brother and then he refers to them and the other soldiers still in Nam, if not in exact words, as murderers. My father was a lifer in the military and went out of duty, not for glory. My brother was drafted. Neither one of them ever exploited their Vietnam experience the way Kerry does.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. I think you should hold out hope. There's 41 states left.

Of those 41 states, Dean has very good organization in many of those states. The only caution I have for Dean fans is that his organization seems to have been overestimated in the first 2 and I think that caught you all by surprise. Therefore, if you are in a state where votes have not yet occurred, it is to your advantage to post less and ACT MORE ... get your frineds involved, schedule more meet-ups and walk precincts(and NO I am not saying that to get you to stop posting...I am saying that as someone who is sitting out this campaign after the recall and someone who has worked on over a dozen campaigns)

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. Here in Michigan I know they have organized weekly meetings in

addition to Meetup, and also are doing morning to night phonebanking, with very positive results I hear from a friend. :hi:

Don't give up Dean supporters. Your party needs you to do this.

[LynneSin]

33. I'm an Eagles fan and we Eagles fans don't jump bandwagon

Dean is still playing and I'm still supporting him. I'm even going to the meetup tonight!!!

[Emillereid]

45. Me too! I went to a Dean party last night.

I can't believe others supporting other candidates can't see how poorly the media have treated Dean, the way he was savaged by nasty GOP nasty ads in Iowa and ganged up on by the other candidates in a really destructive way. I mean for a while there, almost all the media was concentrating on Dean's supposed gaffes -- like the one where he told the the truth that Hussein's capture did not make us safer -- it certainly hasn't made our GIs in Iraq any safer -- more of them are dead post-capture than before. Or the supposed gaffe when he talked about the importance of due process -- even for bad guys. We understood how important this was during Nuremberg.

Of course Dean made some real mistakes -- like letting too young, inexperienced kids be captains in Iowa. Some of his ads were crappy too. But mostly the media beat up on him day in and day out, aided and abetted by other Dems, the DLC and the GOP. When the media turn against your candidates -- it will be just as ugly and wrong as it is for Dean. We have to take back our country -- we have to take back the media!

To be honest I have re-doubled my commitment to Dean and the incredible democratic, grass roots he represents. Can't wait for tonight's Meet-up!
Stick together Deaniacs -- the future is ours!