Tell me why I shouldn't be disappointed Kerry is winning.

[Ladyhawk]

Of all the candidates (besides Lieberman), I like Kerry the least. How can it be he's winning? He seemed like the quintessential politician, flip-flopping on the issues, depending upon which way the wind was blowing.

How can we trust him to effect real change?

[roguevalley]

1. I have the same feelings. I guess I am just tired of people not taking

principled stands when it counts. The war, Patriot act and the like counted and no one stood up but a handful of people. It wasn't like
he needed to be re-elected soon. After being against Nam, doing this
rather rattled me.

I can remember the anti-war movement during Nam and how much it was
costing people to take a chance. Then they grew up and didn't. I feel
very unsettled by his rise.

I guess its just me. I have to work this out. ABB, but with a clothes
pin on my nose.

RV, an old gal who remembers a more heroic time.

[Dookus]

2. well...

according to the polling I've seen, he appeals to a very broad range of Democrats. He's also perceived as the most electable of the candidates.

Do you know of another candidate who hasn't "flip-flopped" on issues? Do you any POLITICIAN who hasn't?

[isbister]

3. Has Kerry

flipped flopped on an issue?

[girl gone mad]

9. LOL! n/t

[Gadave]

4. Its why all you find in Washington are politicians

The political animal survives best in the jungle that is washington politics. Good people with genuine emotions and strongly held principles are constantly attacked while the slithering politicians avoid all salvos by never committing.

[Dookus]

5. uncompromising idealogues

tend not to get elected in the first place.

[Gadave]

10. Uncompromising is a virtue at times

Should have black leaders compromised during the civil rights battles?

Should the US have compromised with Nazi Germany?

Compromise is only a virtue when principles are not at stake. If you are talking about compromising on whether to spend 100 billion or 120 billion for something its no big deal. When compromising about whether big corporations run the country or not, there is no room.

[Dookus]

11. yes, at times

but usually not in the Senate of a democracy.

It's politics, baby.

BTW... who is the mysterious "pure" candidate that you feel is being slighted?

[Gadave]

16. I don't think there is a pure candidate

Just like we dont drink pure water. But what would you rather drink, tap water or raw sewage? Since both are not "pure" then both are equal then, right?

I think Gephardt was the best guy in the race because he cared a lot about the American worker and was a pretty good guy who got lousy treatment. He was far from pure, but he made up for it in other ways. Since he dropped out, I picked the other mutt getting beat up by the press as my candidate, Howard Dean. He is not "pure" but he seems to be a true believer, and speaks his mind. Think of him as mineral water (its good for you).


Lately to me it seems that Kerry has become water flavored drink, to use my earlier analogy.

[Dookus]

18. well...

I prefer Kerry over Dean. I'm a liberal. I want to elect a liberal.

[Gadave]

20. Why don't you think Dean is a liberal?

I think my point is we know who Dean is?

What is Kerry really? His speaches often don't match his votes. I really don't like Senators much as Presidential candidates. That's my least favorite portion of the government. Too many aristocrats there. Edwards avoids that cause he is a one termer who actually came from a poor background.

[Dookus]

21. I believe Dean

when he says he's a centrist and a moderate. His governing record shows that to be the case.

[Gadave]

25. Being against the war is really centrist for Dean

Yeah, and so is his state medical insurance plan and his statements about universal heath care for all Americans.

And so are his statements about protecting the environment. Dean is just mr middle of the road.

[Ficus]

46. or the A rating

from the NRA or his support of every war in the last 10 years (save Iraq II) makes him a real peacenik. Dean isn't some DLCer, but he sure isn't a liberal.

[sventvkg]

14. very very well said

:)

[POed_Ex_Repub]

8. In the corporate world they call that

"Management"

[patricia92243]

6. Kerry who is who insiders wanted. Waste of time to vote for anyone else.

[Dookus]

7. LOL

who's the outsider? Al Sharpton? Wes Clark? Those are the only ones I can think of.

[Virgil]

17. Council on Foreign Relations

Kerry is the representative for the establishment. That is why you see endorsements with no statement on NAFTA, energy policy, or the broken health care system. The media is showing a soap opera without having to talk about issues beyond sound bites.



The institution of the wealthy to look at is the Council on Foreign Relations. Kerry is a member and so his his national security advisor, Rand Beers.

One big issue before us is the media itself. Now there are 6 candidates left and can you tell me the position of any candidate on the issue of 5 conglomerates being the overwhelming source for news in this country. Kucinich says bust them up and make them furnish air time for candidates and more. Maybe that is why he is shunned by the media.

http://kucinich.us/issues/media_reform.php - "In addition to requiring free air time for political campaigns, Kucinich will create a greater diversity of viewpoints in the media by breaking up the major media conglomerates, encouraging competition and quality, as well as diversity. Kucinich will place new caps on media ownership and would ban the granting of exceptions to those caps. Kucinich will limit the number of media outlets one corporation can own in a given medium, such as radio, print, or television. He will strictly prohibit cross-ownership and vertical integration."

[bornskeptic]

15. Insiders started wanting Kerry

when they watched him steamroll the Iowa caucuses and they realized he was a winner. Before that they wanted Lieberman or Clark.

[sventvkg]

12. KERRY STINKS!!! I'll bet ANYONE Any amount of $$ Bush beats him

Anyone wanna take the bet, verified by bank account held in escrow....He is uninspiring and I'm sorry but he's backed this administration far too long..The Green party and other alternative parties are seeing registration in record numbers because people are just flat out sick of this crap..You can't be a Bush lite Yes man and expect people to vote him out for you..I'm disgusted by this party. It seems everyone bought the hogwash about Kerry's elect-ability and are now circling the wagons behind him. I say he's NOT electable and Bush Beats him by a Landslide out our country goes further into the toilet and I'm sure it will be what we deserve..

[Dookus]

13. who's doing better

against bush in the polls right now?

Kerry and Edwards are the only two who are beating Bush. Do you a better metric for deciding?

[joshcryer]

23. Why not put your money where you mouth is...

...and accept the guys bet?

[Dookus]

24. because there are

way too many unknowns, PLUS we have no way to re-run the election with different candidates to see what would happen.

But if there were, I would happily bet that Kerry would do better against Bush than Howard Dean. Alas, there's no way to test that.

[HFishbine]

36. "I would happily bet...

that Kerry would do better against Bush than Howard Dean. Alas, there's no way to test that."

Sure there is.

[Virgil]

27. He hasn't had $200 million thrown at him yet

I hate to say this because this is a time of real crisis, but if the Democratic Party cannot do better than Kerry, they all but deserve to loose. Kerry went along with all the big bills and never drew public attention to the corruption of the government, mainly because he is part of it.

The Repugs own the media. NewsCorp was given DirectTV for payment in advance for their election help. Disney/ABC got their copyrights extended so that 75 year-old Steamboat Willy has a long life to go. GE/NBC has a big interest in NAFTA and other trade treaties that do not put tariffs on their cheap-labor products. The same is true for Viacom/CBS and Westinghouse does not want to be mentioned in the ownership of Viacom. The other big player is Time Warner and AOL.

These are the fingers of a mighty fist and when they flash the all but morbid expressions of Kerry's elongated face, they will not ask him for his own proofs. They will see that the mansions of John Forbes Kerry are seen many times and that his vacation pictures and wealth are well known and not in directly confronting ways.

The problem with Kerry is all the Republicans need to do is create apathy as if it is not worth voting. Bush was the same dickhead at mid-term elections and what happened? Did Kerry not apply his leadership to tell the Democrats they needed to turn back the PNAC machine? Why does Kerry not even mention PNAC as the core source of direction for the Bush directives?

You might not believe me, but Kerry is the rich white Yankee that went to Yale. Skull and Bones might be snoozed on here, but on Clear Channel they can play it anyway they want to the one in three people that are functionally illiterate and they can do it all without anyone knowing Bush was in it too.

The polls now only serve to make Kerry the nominee. People that vote for him cannot tell you his position on much of anything. People are not buying his proposals of change. They don't even know what they are and neither do I and I read these boards every day. All I hear him say is Bush needs to change and bring 'em on. Bush's boys will bring it on and it will come from all directions in ways loud and soft, in ways subtle and direct. And if the only thing he wants to change is Bush, then why change Bush? He has $200 million and 5 media conglomerates on his side. He is waiting for you to bring Kerry on.

The Democrats outnumber Republicans 3 to 2 and the reason the Democrats stay home is because they don't see that it makes any difference. You ask a peacock America to be ruled by a rich white man and they will take the one that is happy and not the one with the sullen face using the pictures Carl Roves chooses.

Bush might be the worst president ever, but if the Democrats are stupid enough to send Kerry, they have proven themselves to be the worst party ever. If things are so bad, why did everyone go along? All the Democrats want is their turn at the trough. They are all crooked. I will not vote for Kerry and I would tell people stay at home. Someone will need to form a new party that recognizes the Constitution and the public good and talks straight. The Democrats and Republicans are just two sides of the same coin. What is the difference?

[sventvkg]

29. That's the most outstanding Post I have ever read....

I agree with everything in there 10000000000000% Kudos

[G_j]

39. oh I wish

what you say is not true. but alas, you are right.

However I will vote ABB, though my enthusiasm has been completely squashed.


looks like the PNAC is here to stay

[JNelson6563]

33. You are much mistaken

Kerry is going to be the fortunate beneficiary of a collective disdain for Bush around the country and across party lines.

The sheeple may not know much but they know they don't like Bush so much anymore and the media has convinced them that only Kerry is "electable" among the Democrats.

Remember, it is a tiny percentage of people who follow the primaries as we do and get so involved with the various campaigns. Many will be glad to simply line up behind whoever the Dems put forth and that is going to be John Kerry.

Julie

[NashVegas]

38. What She Said

I think it's entirely possible that if Kerry gets the nomination, you'll see some incredibly damaging shit come out about Bush, stuff that's been held at bay for 4 years. Kerry's not going to upset the grand apple cart.

[onebigbadwulf]

19. Because he

has a great voting record... wait no...


he doesn't take money from special interests.... wait no...


well he's really charismatic... no...


he's very attractive.... I guess not.....


he's not a washington insider....... hmmm nope...


he runs a clean campaign... errr...


nevermind. We're F-ed.

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

22. I won't tell you not to be disappointed

There were 9 candidates to start with and only 1 is going to be nominated, so a lot of people are going to be disappointed that their choice was not the winner.

In a head to head matchup between Bush and Kerry in 2 different polls that I know of, Kerry tops Bush by 7% and 8%, so obviously the majority of people do not agree with your characterization of Kerry.

[KissMyAsscroft]

26. In America, perception is reality...

Reality means nothing..

[Virgil]

28. Do you agree with $200 million

Do you agree the media is with the Republicans?

Do you agree that Kerry is a rich, white, yankee?

Are you telling me that Kerry fought Bush tooth and nail and resisted the tax cuts, and wants to end NAFTA. Did he oppose the pill bill. Did he oppose the overtime laws being changed for 8 million people? What do you mean he did not vote? You mean it passed with only 48 votes and only the Democrats abstained?

I hope you are not telling me that I am voting for Kerry because I am not. He is the other side of the Bush coin. And what media companies furnished the polls and where are the links?

But tell me what policies it is that makes Kerry so wonderful. Is it that he can be more secret than Bush and he is proving it by hiding what he wants to change. I am asking you, seriously, what is it he wants to change, beside his turn at the trough?

[YouMustBeKiddingMe]

30. I answered the question posed in the original post

What's with the third degree?

More voters are choosing Kerry over Dean. More voters would choose Kerry over Bush. I'm simply stating the facts. Obviously you don't like the facts.

I can't speak for how other people make their choices.

[usrbs]

31. Look, I'm very disappointed Kerry is winning too, but...

To say that if Kerry gets chosen the Democratic party is the other side of the coin is ridiculous. Haven't the past 3 years proven that the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican? At least in this current era, when the Republican party seems to have morphed into this horrid fanatic right-wing crew, whose intolerance is matched only by its' greed. Next you'll be telling us that Nader was right about Gore and Bush being equivalent. They weren't, and neither are Kerry and Bush. Just think of the environment, the war which wouldn't have been started, the irresponsible tax cuts, and you have to realize that we have to change this "president", no matter what.

That being said, I don't understand how Kerry is doing so much better than real leaders like Dean and Clark. I agree with almost every word of criticism against Kerry. Frankly, if he gets the nomination, it will be very hard for me to be enthusiastic about working for his election. But I will, knowing the alternative.

[Iverson]

32. reasons not to be disappointed

- Kerry may be your preferred candidate.
- You may like him personally.
- You may be pleased with any candidate who is not Bush.
- You may be a centrist.

Share and enjoy.

[Cascadian]

34. I feel the same way.

Remember this is the man who supported Bush's invasion of Iraq. Never mind that he wanted Bush to have a UN solution. He could have voted against it. He also failed to vote at all when they passed the AARP-Drug company inspired perscription bill. He also took a lot of Howard Dean's strategy to incorporated it into his campaign. You know as well as I do that Karl Rove and company are going to expose everything about Kerry. Then again what is there to expose. He is a typical Washington insider who is in the pocket of special interests. If he gets the nomination, I expect Ralph Nader is going to get back in the race this time.


John

[1floridademocrat]

35. He won't

If Kerry wins, there won't be any real change.

Yeah some things.. mostly minor will change. But nothing dramatic, nothing big *shrug* Thats the way of Politics.

However.. its a huge "IF"

Of all the peopel running, I think Kerry has the lowest chance of winning.

And yes I'm well aware of the current polls showing him winning at the momment.

However the following things haven't happened.

1) Republicans haven't even begun yet.
2) The REAL race is after BOTH conventions.

I give Kerry.. IF he is the nominee less than 30% chance to win.

Oh I'll vote for him, but I don't like him, I never liked him, back before he was running for President either.. he always struck me as kinda.. well.. fake.

I wish to heaven Dean had won Iowa, or not made the speech after that the did. I don't think he did anything WRONG in that speech, I just think it gave way to much fuel to the fire.

While I'm with Dean until he drops out, Then I'm with Edwards and or Clark. I just can't be a Kerry "backer"

I guess its because I'm NOT a liberal. And Kerry.. *sigh*

Look, ask yourself, do you want ANOTHER Massachusets Liberal running for President?

[YNGW]

37. Maybe Nader will run. I'd like to vote for someone.

nc

[blm]

40. He and DK are the two most progressive candidates in the race.

Kerry's liberal rating is actually higher than Dennis'.

And because Kerry exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history. That's important to many of us.

Of course, if you're a centrist then vote for someone else. Maybe Dean will still be in the race and you can vote for him.

[Ladyhawk]

42. What good is being labeled a "liberal"...

...if you can't take stands on big issues like the invasion of Iraq, the Medicare bill, the Patriot Act, etc. Are you calling him liberal because of his rhetoric or his actions?

[corporatewhore]

45. you forgot freetrade which ihmo is bigger

[blm]

48. Because of his lifetime record that is closest to Wellstone of all the

candidates including Dennis Kucinich.

Do actual records matter? Would you dismiss Kennedy, Wellstone or Byrd as ineligible for their votes for the Patriot Act? You do know that parts of the PA were deliberately SUNSETTED before they would vote yes, don't you?

Kerry helped filibuster the Medicare bill. He helped negotiate on IWR to get Bush to the UN and prevent further action in Iran and Syria.

You don't FAKE lifetime voting records.

[THUNDER HANDS]

41. outside of beating Bush, how much change to do want?

Washington will fundamentally change once Bush is out of the White House. It all starts there.

[Ladyhawk]

43. The next administration will be stuck cleaning up the mess.

My impression of Kerry is that he is not up to the task. He turns directions as easily as the wind. The Dems will get blamed for what The Trillion Dollar Man started and we'll see another neo-con in the White House in four years.

[corporatewhore]

44. We cant he supported NAFTA/WTO/GATT and bushs fast track to the

FTAA inho free trade encompasses all the things we should stand against
raping the land
stripping workers of thier rights
stealing land from indigenous people
rampant corporatism
miilitarzation
human rights abuses
SLAVERY
cocacolonization
and rampant privatisation

[Snivi Yllom]

47. Because

you should be disappointed Dean is losing.

[Le Taz Hot]

49. I'm disappointed as well . . .

Some of the local Dean supporters asked me why Kerry came out of nowhere to win all these primaries. My answer: "It's the Joe sixpack factor. Never underestimate the laziness and stupidity of the American voter." The vast majority of Americans (the few who bother to vote and who can blame them?) think approximately 2.5 seconds about the candidates. They go down the list of mostly same-old-shit candidates, find a name they recognize and that's the way they make their decision. Most of them have no clue who Howard Dean is, or Dennis Kucinich or Wesley Clark. They know Lieberman and don't like him and they know Kerry's name and don't really know anything about him except that he's a Viet Nam war veteran and he's the one they vote for.

Americans deserve whoever they get and they seem to want Bush* or Kerry. I actually had a little hope for the Western states but, again all hopes were dashed yesterday with Arizona and New Mexico. I have a small glimmer of hope that Washington and/or California might be sensible but then again we (Californians) voted in Gropenfurer so on second thought . . .

Yeah, I'll vote for Joe sixpack's choice in November (Kerry) and then spend the next several hours getting drunk and throwing up because in the end, we'll have either Bush* or Kerry and one is almost as bad as the other.