If Dean never did his I have a scream speech...

[ringmastery]

Would the results in NH have been different?

[Dookus]

1. maybe a little

but I don't think a whole lot. Remember, he gave that speech AFTER doing so poorly in Iowa. His slide had already begun.

[mdmc]

2. nah

same result, me thinks/

[demsrule4life]

3. No

but it goes to show you that you should not believe polls.

[atldem]

4. Would have been the same.

I am a huge supporter of Dean because I really wanted change to occur in this country. But I guess everyone else decided that they were really too scared to make any real changes. Kerry will get the nomination and he will go down in flames. He will not get one electoral vote in the south. The "lets play it safe" dems have really screwed the pooch again.

[Sandpiper]

5. No

Dean lost his mojo in Iowa, with or without the Vince McMahon rant.

[Cleita]

6. No, because Dean became a target. If it wasn't

the scream (totally discredited by witnesses who were there), there would have been another situation the press could blow out of proportion for the occasion. Did it ever concern anyone that CNN's Republican apologist reporter Candy Crowley was covering the event? She has been following Dean on his campaign and looking for any opportunity to paint him in a less than flattering light.

[Dookus]

7. well

I was watching it with my brother live. As soon as we did it, we both commented on how insane he seemed, and how this was going to be played again and again. This was before any media had commented on it.

Dean did this to himself.

[mrdmk]

15. When Howard Dean was interviewed by Sean Hanity

Sean Hanity said (paraphrasing) we played your scream speech 450 times on fox! Dean replied (paraphrasing) Thank you for the free publicity!

[fujiyama]

8. In all fairness...

to Candy Crowley (about whom I have little good to say), she did mention that in the room with the supporters, his speech seemed like no big deal.

[SharonAnn]

13. Hmmm, a target like what this article describes?

A Bush Covert Operative Takes Over Al Sharpton's Campaign

Sleeping With the GOP

Roger Stone, the longtime Republican dirty-tricks operative who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000, is financing, staffing, and orchestrating the presidential campaign of Reverend Al Sharpton.

<snip> He's also helped stack the campaign with a half-dozen incongruous top aides who've worked for him in prior campaigns. He's even boasted about engineering six-figure loans to Sharpton's National Action Network (NAN) and allowing Sharpton to use his credit card to cover thousands in NAN costs—neither of which he could legally do for the campaign. In a wide-ranging Voice interview Sunday, Stone confirmed his matching-fund and staffing roles, but refused to comment on the NAN subsidies. …

Recruited in 2000 by his friend James Baker, the former secretary of state, to spearhead the GOP street forces in Miami, Stone is apparently confident that he can use the Democrat-bashing preacher to damage the party's eventual nominee, just as Sharpton himself bragged he did in the New York mayoral campaign of 2001. In his 2002 book, Al on America, Sharpton wrote that he felt the city's Democratic Party "had to be taught a lesson" in 2001—insisting that Mark Green, who defeated the Sharpton-backed Fernando Ferrer in a bitter runoff, had disrespected him and minorities. Adding that the party "still has to be taught one nationally," he warned: "A lot of 2004 will be about what happened in New York in 2001. It's about dignity." In 2001, Sharpton engaged in a behind-the-scenes dialogue with campaign aides to Republican Mike Bloomberg while publicly disparaging Green. …

While Bush forces like the Club for Growth were buying ads in Iowa assailing then front-runner Howard Dean, Sharpton took center stage at a debate confronting Dean about the absence of blacks in his Vermont cabinet. Stone told the Times that he "helped set the tone and direction" of the Dean attacks, while Charles Halloran, the Sharpton campaign manager installed by Stone, supplied the research. While other Democratic opponents were also attacking Dean, none did it on the advice of a consultant who's worked in every GOP presidential campaign since his involvement in the Watergate scandals of 1972, including all of the Bush family campaigns. Asked if he'd ever been involved in a Democratic campaign before, Stone cited his 1981 support of Ed Koch, though he was quoted at the time as saying he only did it because Koch was also given the Republican ballot line.

Just as Stone has a history of political skulduggery, Sharpton has a little-noticed history of Republican machinations inconsistent with his fiery rhetoric.

Very interesting, and disturbing, article at:
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0405/barrett.php

[Skip Intro]

9. It wasn't the speech, it was what the media did with it

700 replays in less than a week, with accompanying ridicule and dismissive commentary.

Later, after NH, Dianne Sawyer admitted the media misrepresented what really took place.

The media repeated this, repeated the Dean is angry meme, and it took a big toll. Dean was closing the gap, and had recovered a lot of ground, by the time NH voters went to the polls.

I know this view bothers some here, so be it. Its what happened. Were there other factors, sure, but the media's Michael Jackson like treatment of that speech was the biggie. And it should infuriate every Democrat.

Now the same media cannot say "Kerry" without saying "electability."

Repitition, unfortunately, works. Ask any teacher.

[HazMat]

12. As Richard Nixon once said,

"I gave them the sword, and they enjoyed twisting it..".

Dean did it to himself.

It would be nice if his supporters would start to accept this, but somehow I doubt it. On with the lame excuses/conspiracy theories...

[Skip Intro]

14. Ah, the "conspiracy theory" line

What took you so long?

:eyes:

I suppose Dianne Sawyer was just feeding us kooks when she admitted the media's version of the speech - repeated 700 times in less than a week - was misleading?

In case you missed it, she showed the speech from the floor, with audio from the floor - the "scream" could not be heard above the crowd. But this was only "discovered" after NH.

But that's cool. We'll just ignore all that. The media is fair to all Democrats, have been since before 2000, and during the bush regime. I'm sure they'll be more than fair to Kerry should he win the nom. (What special interests?)

[bobbyboucher]

16. If only your zeal was positive.

Thanks for proving that negativity is your mantra. Who is your guy again?

[bobbyboucher]

10. Save it!

Doesn't matter, it happened and the media whored it. What's your point?

[knight_of_the_star]

11. Doubtful

The media was looking for a chance to crucify him on SOMETHING simply because of his overoptimistic predictions of victory in Iowa then NH which neither happened. They would have smeared him anyway.