BEWARE: RNC-Rove are using Dems to defeat DEMS

[grasswire]

Remember how Rove operates? He takes an enemy's strength and turns it against the enemy?

This whole new hoopla about Dem activists being out for Dem blood is the latest Hail Mary from the right.

So Rove gets Democrats out to unseat safe Dem seats. Dems digging dirt on Dems, talking them down.

Do we need that chaos right now? Do we? Just when we have a real chance to gain subpoena power?

Can't we dump DINOs AFTER we take all the powers of Congress back?

Don't fall for this!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop the infighting now.

[stepnw1f]

1. I Noticed That As Well

Since we know the GOP has nothing to offer Americans, they have to resort to dividing the Left, just as some of their trolls are doing here today and everyday.

[katinmn]

3. Yup. n/t

[drm604]

2. K&R

:kick:

[Deja Q]

4. I've noticed that for years now and have said as such on the incidents.

Not Rove. How * is using Liberal ideals against us, with many falling for it.

The latest, obviously, being immigration.

We have them exactly where they want us.

If only Clinton was as smart. OTOH, is it smart or slimy to be willful against one's fellow American? (so both are slimy, but one's worse despite both of them takin' the same bribes.)

[ChiciB1]

5. Then Tell ME What I Should Do With Bill Nelson??

Brian Moore is running against Nelson as a NPA! I like Brian Moore, but then there's Cruella!

My ass is in a sling here! I HAVE to vote for a DINO! I can't DO Cruella anymore! She's been in MY life waaaaaay too long! Sarasota, County!

[Tiggeroshii]

10. I think you should vote him out so that we can have absolutely no

chance whatsoever of taking over either house of congress and gaining subpoena power. I love being out of power and not being able to make any decisions and let bushites squander their power to no end. I just LOVE being stepped on. Don't you? Unless of course you really don't want to kick out moderates like nelson, nominate a die hard progressive and not get SQUASHED in the general election in a moderate state like Florida. That's your call.

[ChiciB1]

17. I Think I Just Stated That I Have No Choice!

I will hold my nose and vote for him. I've contacted him many many many times and he's replied only 2 times!

I was trying to make a point that MOST elected officials are GOING TO GET RE-ELECTED! This is why I worry about 2006. I would prefer another candidate, but it's not happening. I wish Moore would have run as a Democrat because Nelson goes both ways. Sure, he is a Democrat but it really upset me how quickly he came out after the election and sidled up to Martinez. I went to rallies where he stood with Kerry & Edwards, but from what I see, he goes along to get along.

I recently got a reply from him about Iran. I suppose I should post it, but it didn't answer any question, and it was sooooooo "sitting on the fence!" If you're talking about subpoena power to Impeach, I'm not sure Nelson would vote "for" it! That doesn't make me feel very comfortable. I don't know why Moore decided to do what he did, but he does have followers.

So, I know I will HAVE to vote for Nelson, however I prefer voting for someone I respect and have a real passion for.

I tried to get an opinion about the Nelson/Moore thing, but got very little feed back so I don't really know how this is going to fall out.

[Tiggeroshii]

19. Well that's more of a problem about the electoral system than Nelson

...what we need to do is work to fix the system. but before that, I think we need to fix a whole lot more. Compared to Bush, Nelson's a good guy. Yeah?

[ChiciB1]

21. I'll Have To Say... Almost ANYBODY Is Better Than Bush!

But it short of makes me feel like a clone... walk the walk, talk the talk... elect Nelson.

I'll do it, I already committed a long time ago. I have written to him about my concerns many times, even telling him I wish we had another choice other than him. But he knows the deal, if we want a Democrat we vote for him. I wonder how that makes him feel?

[Tiggeroshii]

26. Well

A Republican is just as bad as Bush-no matter who they are right now because they enable him. A Democrat will at least contribute to a working majority. In a lot of ways it doesn't matter what they do right now as long as they have a D by their name and will follow the Dem leadership. While a vote for a Repug is a vote for Bush, a vote for Nelson is still a vote for Harry Reid and Ted Kennedy.

Now is most crucial time than ever to stand with the "DINO" and then, after we are already in power, then people can get rid of them. Nelson's old anyways. He'll probably retire within the next 10 years anyways =)

[ChiciB1]

28. Are You Including Pete McCloskey Here?? Seems I Saw A Thread

the other day singing his praises. Many democrats seem to be backing him and the Teacher's Union as well.

I posted then that regardless of how wonderful he seemed he was still a Repuke and that once in D.C. they join that special cabal!

Kind of a Ronald Reagan move don't you think???

[Tiggeroshii]

34. Voting for a repuke(anything with an R) is very bad right now.

Not voting for a Dem is also very bad right now...

[brentspeak]

49. McCloskey would be pretty good to have in Congress

If him winning his district as a Republican meant that the Democrats would still be in the minority in the House, then of course, I wouldn't support him. Otherwise, he's a lot more of the traditional liberal-center Democrat than the actual Democrats we have in Congress right now. And he doesn't march in lockstep with the GOP.

[Tiggeroshii]

53. Except..

McCloskey will still be contributing to a crooked Republican machine -and probably majority. Pombo has been losing in recent polling data to the two Democrats participating in the Democratic nomination. Voting for McCloskey in the general election would only help maintain a district that could otherwise very likely turn for us.

[brentspeak]

56. There's that possibility, of course

Speaking only for myself, McCloskey's such a worthy Congressman, that I'm going to first take a good, hard look at the Democrats challenging him before I decide who I would support (that's if McCloskey actually defeats Pombo -- and my "support" would be pretty useless anyway, as a NJ resident).

[Dr.Phool]

12. At least you get to vote for Jan Schneider.

The only thing Nelson has going for him, is that he's not Katherine Harris.

I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. Looks like I'm stuck with Nelson too.

[ChiciB1]

20. Yes, I Do... But You Are Aware Of What Is Going On Here Aren't You?

Jennings has been promoted as the front runner. The local DFA has endorsed her, or at least the last time I had contact with them they did.

That did upset me too. Personally, even though this is such a red county I don't get the feeling that Harris is very well liked, and I don't think she really won last time out. I worked very hard for Schneider and I saw a lot of negativity toward Cruella. But we still are trying to get paper ballots here. I just worked on that petition drive. The petitions still have to be presented to the Commissioners, then put on the ballot IF they approve it!

As a liberal, it's pretty frustrating living in what I call the 3-strike world. The Idiot, Jebby & Cruella! And I'm not crazy about Nelson either!

[Dr.Phool]

37. Yeah, I talked to Jan a while back

I'll probably see her tomorrow at the AFL-CIO endorsing convention. I couldn't believe that Rahm Emmanuel got behind Jennings. Actually, yes I can. He's pulled some shit on some other candidates I know.

What's up with DFA? Jennings reminds me of an old shrew.

[ChiciB1]

40. They Are Behind Jennings.

From where I sit, I think they see her as more "appealing" not on issues, but rather "presentation!" There's this perception that Schnieder doesn't have the "right look" which I find completely insulting!

As I have stated, I do think Schneider really won last time out... I have reasons to believe this, but you'll never get any light on this. There was a time not too long ago that Sarasota was #1 per capita in income in the state of Florida. I think it's now down to #3 with Ft. Myers and Naples leading the pack. There's a certain snobbishness here. I'm sure you're aware that many Hollywood types had and have homes here. Lucille Ball, Geraldo Rivera... actually Paul Simon's parents lived here. My daughter cared for his father when he was in Memorial Hospital some years back. I'm sure Simon was pretty liberal, but it's that atmosphere of monied people.

I myself am not in that class... no where near. We have Van Wezel here, the Purple Cow and a lot of theater goers. To me, it's simply about that. Up until this time, most supported Schneider and I do, so I can't think it's much more than a certain amount of vanity. It's something I've never liked about this area.

Funny story... when I working to get petitions signed we played a game as people approached us. I would pick out those who I felt were NOT going to sign the petition because the were Repukes. The guy who was with me got a big kick out of how many times I was correct! Not always, but I did nail more of them than not!

[Minnesota Libra]

6. Boy, I sure do hope the entire Democratic Party listens to this..........

....because I'd hate to see us defeat our own through our own stupidity.:argh:

[JPZenger]

7. Standard in Phila politics is to find a third opponent

In philadelphia, if an incumbent is about to be challenged by an aggressive guy, the incumbent recruits a third guy to run. The idea is to split the vote of the people who want to throw out the incumbent. They also like to make sure the 2nd challenger is of the same racial or ethnic group as the other challenger.

[Dr.Phool]

16. That's nothing. A few years back, they found a guy with the same name.

I forget the race, but it was hilarious.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[JPZenger]

23. The Real Bob Casey

Yes, in PA in the 1970s, Bob Casey Sr. was a popular politician. So some other guy named Bob Casey who had no qualifications got elected, I think to State Treasurer. Then, when Bob Casey Sr. ran for Governor, he campaign committee was called THE REAL BOB CASEY FOR GOVERNOR.

[CTLawGuy]

8. I resent that

we trying to get rid of Bush-apologist Joe Lieberman are not supported by or working for Karl Rove.

We have the right to choose who we want representing us. If we can't do that, then we might as well all be independents. At least Dems listen to THEM.


I love your line of argument. "let's wait till we get Congress back". Then we get Congress back and you say "we need DINOs so we can keep Congress."

CT is not going to elect a Repub who loves a president at 29% approval. That would be silly in a state with a 200,000 voter registration advantage for Dems over Repugs.

I did not become a Democrat to "fall in line" and take whoever they give me. I became a Dem because I care about my country and want the best people representing me.

So save your breath.

[TheFarseer]

14. I think Lamont could win a general

about as easily as Lieberman. Of course, I live about 8 states away so maybe I'm not the best guy to ask. I say vote Lamont if you think he will better represent you.

Conversely, it would be silly of me to not vote for Ben Nelson, because then we would be guaranteed some fundy, corporatecrat asshole and that would be far worse. It's all about knowing your options.

[CTLawGuy]

18. I will vote for Lamont no matter what

and if he loses, barring any monkey-business by the state or national party in rigging the primary, I will vote for Joe in the General, because we DO need a dem Congress.

[femrap]

62. I am so glad to see that Joe is facing some competition in

the primary...I think Ned has a chance.

And I don't think rove has anything to do with this race.

[ChiciB1]

22. Isn't Lieberman Still Ahead? Don't YOU Have The Same Problem

that we do here in Florida? I will say that I think Lieberman has done more kissing up than Nelson, but from what I hear Lieberman is still slated to win.

At least you have 2 Democrats to pick from. I think I would vote against Lieberman myself. You're a blue state and can take the chance! I don't think I have that choice.

[CTLawGuy]

64. I would vote for nelson

and next time, get behind a primary challenger.

[janx]

9. It's called the primaries.

It's not chaos.

[Tiggeroshii]

11. MAke a guess as to what would happen if we kicked out Bill Nelson in the

primaries?

[Dr.Phool]

13. Purely hypothetical

He has no primary opponent. We're stuck with him for 6 more years.

[Tiggeroshii]

15. You can vote for Harris.

What's stopping you?

[ChiciB1]

25. Why Are You Baiting Us??

We KNOW the alternative. With Moore in the picture it's now doubly difficult. I know I do... I actually ran into her at Barnes & Noble once!

And Nelson knows it too! I run around saying BOHICA!!

[snowbear]

36. Chici... you ran into Harris at Barnes and Noble? So are you saying....

That she can actually READ !?!?




LOL........

[ChiciB1]

38. I Think She Was Just There Preening... She Gets Her Car Repaired

at a place about a block away!! I didn't SEE her reading! She's a real suck-up!

[ChiciB1]

24. You Got To That Before I Did!

We don't have a choice! So many call for ridding ourselves of DINO's, but right here in Florida we don't have that luxury! Moore is running as No Party Affiliation!

I really wonder how this is going to play! The very thought of having to put up with Cruella scares me to no end. I can't go there! She's never even acknowledged that I exist, not once!!!

[brentspeak]

46. Stuck?

If the Democrats win back the majority in both House and Senate, then it's not like Nelson will be some kind of "Dino", because he won't be subject to the Repub's bullying in Congress.

[ChiciB1]

52. So... We're Voting For Him! I've Seen His Finger In The Air Before

and he is an "easy turner" so maybe it will be aokay. I just don't like how EASY he is.

A vote is a vote though!

[GymGeekAus]

65. A voice of reason!

Thanks, janx!

[Dr Fate]

27. Or maybe Rove is behind what YOU are advocating.

I'm sure he would hate to see his Pro-Bush DEMs replaced with people who listen to their base.

[ChiciB1]

29. I Think Moore Would Vote More With Democrats Than Nelson

does, but too many say he's Nader 2000!

We're in a pickle!

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

41. You're engaging in the circular firing-squad

The OP wasn't attacking anyone, but you're attacking him. Self-defeating.

[Dr Fate]

54. The OP accuses me and other Democrats of doing the work of Karl Rove:

Rove gets "Democrats out to unseat safe Dem seats"- that is what the OP said.

Sorry if I misunderstood your interpretation of what was said.

[brentspeak]

58. I see what you mean

He should have qualified his post as to exclude any hint of "You're a Rove operative!" finger-pointing.

[Lerkfish]

31. funny how "stop the infighting" always means support DINOs.

wouldn't "stop the infighting" also mean support the progressive candidates?

Why aren't DINOs and their supporters stepping aside to let progressives win?

[ChiciB1]

33. So You Would Vote For Moore Here In florida??

I'm not baiting you or being mean, I really want an opinion. I've been trying to get something going on this for a while now.

Moore would be better, but do we dare?? I mean considering we have Cruella waiting in the wings!

[Lerkfish]

39. I'm in ohio, so not qualified to know that particular landscape, but

imho, UNLESS we put forward progressive candidates, repubs will win. Politics as usual is out the window

[wyldwolf]

43. LOL

wouldn't "stop the infighting" also mean support the progressive candidates?

Sure. But they have to win a primary first.

Why aren't DINOs and their supporters stepping aside to let progressives win?

That's the problem with some "progressives." They want people to step aside instead of actually running a winning campaign.

[Lerkfish]

55. projection.

[wyldwolf]

59. truth

I'll vote for the Ned Lamonts win they win their primaries. No one is going to coronate them by stepping aside.

[Lerkfish]

61. sorry, that's projection:

when you say:
That's the problem with some "progressives." They want people to step aside instead of actually running a winning campaign.

you've missed my point entirely. I'm pointing out that the "nonprogressives" are telling us to do exactly that, and then I said why is that? why is the "lets all get along" only in one direction?

That's why I say projection. the OP was suggesting progressives step aside to allow DINOs to win, and I merely echoed that back to make my point. THEN, you accuse me of the crime of the OP.

projection. Look it up.

[wyldwolf]

66. no, sorry, it's the truth

I didn't get that at all from the op.

[Lerkfish]

68. then we vehemently disagree.

[mhatrw]

32. Here's an easy compromise.

Any Dem leaders who manage to grow spines now that Bush's approval rating is under 33% should not be targeted.

[ChiciB1]

35. We Need A Lot Of Help Here... Any Volunteers?? And Way Out?(nt)

[Dr.Phool]

47. We need more help in the 5th District too,

Pasco, Hernando, Citrus, Levy, Marion, counties etc.

www.johnrussellforcongress.com

[ChiciB1]

50. I Used To Live In Citrus County...

My mother-in-law still has her place in Hernando on the lake there. We care for her, she has the Big-A. I could get an absentee for her, but she's pretty advanced. I wonder if they would find out, she lives here but still has her place there. In fact, my husband is up there now. That's still her voting county though!

[wyldwolf]

42. You talk of Rovian plots and infighting, yet you encourage it...

..by calling for a party purge and using "DINO."

I would call anyone doing that a DINO.

[brentspeak]

44. That makes a lot of sense...not

So he's a "Dino" even though he suggests that Dinos might not be necessary if the Dems get enough power back.......

[wyldwolf]

48. makes perfect sense

Someone says "stop the infighting."

Then advocates purging the party of "DINOS."

Sounds like a DINO.

hint: "prooogreeesssiiives" are not the face of the party, and never have been. If they were, there would be a hell of lot more of them in power.

[Mr_Spock]

45. I'm not that gullible and Rove isn't doing so great.

I don't give Rove that much credit.

Bush is more hated than Nixon.

Bush is less popular in every area than Bill Clinton who's been out of office for 5+ years.

Dems haven't had such a high generic lead over Republicans since 1964.

Rove isn't so good.

Don't give him more credit than he is due.

If we are doing what you say, then we are stupid. Don't blame Rove. Let's take responsibility for our own actions - unlike repukes.

[ChiciB1]

51. Hey... And Here I Go AGAIN! Let's MARCH!!

Send a message NOW, while they are scrambling! I know, MSM didn't cover us before... but now it might work. Head for D.C. in big numbers!

I'll stop, it's a repetitious thing with me!

[Mr_Spock]

69. I agree - let's march

It might be better to do it in a lot of cities since it's hard for people to get away. I've been waiting for a good solid organization to organize a very large march.

Are we going to march against Rove?

[bigbrother05]

57. If it's an honest primary campaign, what's the problem?

Primaries should make a stronger candidate in the general. Nasty primary contests won't help either candidate in the long run; run tough, but run clean. In places with open primaries, like LA, multitudes from one party dilute their impact (could end up with a single party having both places in the general).

Once heard Al Gore tell a story about his dad:
Someone accused the elder Gore of being so partisan that he'd vote for the Devil himself if he were on the Dem ticket. After thinking for a moment, he said he probably would, "but not in the primary".

[wyldwolf]

60. apparently some here want their candidates coronated.

[welshTerrier2]

63. you've got the right goal but the wrong approach

the answer to your question: "Can't we dump DINOs AFTER we take all the powers of Congress back?" is NO ...

if you're looking for unity, count me in!!!!!

if you're looking for unity without a genuine intra-party dialog and some genuine compromise on the issues, count me OUT !!!!!

unity has to be earned ... we all want to win ... instead of calling for near-term support of, to use your jargon, DINOs, we need to come to some common ground, some compromise, some understandings, some commitments ...

too many here argue the "left" demands purity; i think the truth is exactly the opposite ... you can't claim the "left" is inflexible when you refuse to negotiate with them in the first place ... it is the Party and its elite members who are inflexible ...

rather than just calling for unity, you should be calling for more dialog and real intra-party reforms ... your goal is critically important; your approach is NOT going to work ...

[MrBenchley]

67. I've long suspected the forums are being ratfucked....

[grasswire]

70. there's something else to be considered here...

...and that's seniority on committees. Supposing Dems successfully replace DINOS with fresh faces, and consider the way committee influence will be affected in both scenarios -- Dems taking Congress, Dems not taking Congress. How will our ultimate Democratic goals be affected by the loss of Senators and Congresscritters who have ranking? I believe the impact is extremely significant and should be factored in any considerations of strategy.

DINOS are a secondary target.

[IndianaGreen]

71. Spare the DLC vitriolics! Lieberman and Jane Harman have failed us

and they have failed the country to boot. It is good that both of them, together with Maria Cantwell, are facing progressive challenges.

DLC uses Rove as their Emmanuel Goldstein, just as Bush uses Osama as theirs.

Here is why the DLC is having kittens:

Published on May 19, 2006 by Bloomberg.com

Democratic Activists Seek to Punish Their Own for Backing Bush

In Connecticut, Lieberman, the Democrats' 2000 vice presidential nominee, is facing a challenge in the August primary from Ned Lamont, a 52-year-old Greenwich businessman stressing his opposition to the Iraq war. A recent poll by Rasmussen Reports, an independent survey company in Ocean Grove, New Jersey, showed about a third of Democratic primary voters backing Lamont, the great-grandson of legendary J.P. Morgan & Co. Chairman Thomas W. Lamont, over Lieberman, 64, a supporter of Bush's war policies.

On May 16, the National Organization for Women announced its endorsement of Lamont, and MoveOn.org said yesterday it will poll its 50,000 Connecticut members in an online ``primary'' on May 25 to determine whether they want to back Lieberman or Lamont.

In California, Harman, 60, a six-term House veteran, has a rare primary challenger in Marcy Winograd, 52, president of Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles. Winograd has criticized Harman's support for the Patriot Act, which expanded law- enforcement authority to fight terrorism, and the Iraq war. Winograd's supporters temporarily blocked the state party's endorsement of Harman, although the incumbent ultimately received the backing for the June primary.

Teamsters and Trade

In Illinois' eighth district, the Teamsters union is withholding support for one-term incumbent Bean, 44, over her support for the Central American Free Trade Agreement.

In Washington state, incumbent Senator Maria Cantwell, 47, faces several challengers in a September primary whose campaigns are fueled by anger over her support for the war. They include Mark Wilson, a former Marine who's running as a Democrat, and Aaron Dixon, a former Black Panther Party leader who is running as a Green Party candidate.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0519-08.htm

[TankLV]

72. Like LIEberman, right?

I KNEW it!

Fuck "holy" joe!

[grasswire]

74. have you seen the new story put out on Lamont?

Have you seen the story that politicalwire.com has about Lamont? How he owns Halliburton stock?

This is the tip of the iceberg. Dems are going to damage our own incumbents and then Rove is going to take down the new candidates.

We are going to be screwed like never before, if you hotheads follow this path.

[TankLV]

73. BULLSHIT! Fight in the primaries as if you LIFE depended on it!

Get rid of all the repuke ass kissing DINOS!

Put in REAL progressives!

FUCK the DLC and this bogus report!

I'll be fighting my ass off to UNSEAT some of these so called dems in name only!

I am sooo fucking tired of REPUKE LITE!

[farmboxer]

75. Old Strategy: Divide And Conquer.

I will support Democrats, we can clean house later.