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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:03 PM
Original message
Dean Supporters:
Keep your spirits up, we knew tonight would be rough.

Occasionally, people have pointed to the come-from-behind nomination of Clinton in '92, and that is always poo-pooed here. The "dynamics" of '04 aren't the same as they were in '92, yada-yada-yada.

The fact of the matter is, Dean's campaign has broken all molds. There is no precedent to judge this campaign. If the "dynamics" of '04 are not the same as they were in '92, then it's fair to say the "dynamics" of '04 are not like those in any other election year prior to that. We're breaking the mold, we're doing something new. Will we win? Who the hell knows. Is there a chance we might? By god, yes.

Tonight is a hard night to get through for us, but keep in mind there is always something hard to doing something new, something new that means something.

Take heart, dawn follows even the darkest night.

And, to Edwards, Clark, Kerry supporters who have worked hard for your candidates, congratulations on what must be a wonderful evening for you. You've worked for it, you deserve time to celebrate.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. My spirits are waaaayyyyy up!
And just look at all the well-wishers to the Clark campaign.

Nobody said it was going to be easy, and we wouldn't have it any other way, now would we?

Howard-Powered :toast:
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Anwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Howard-Powered
I like that too!! :toast:

I am glad you are in such high spirits! Optimism is infectious, ya know... :)
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am still solidly behind Dean! nt
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Maccagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Howard Dean is a good man with a good message
No matter what happens-never forget that.
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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. That which does not destroy you only makes you stronger.
Dean and his supporters will not give up the fight!!
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iowapeacechief Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kucinich will go to the convention...
...and you'll be most welcome with the Peace Candidate if Dean drops out.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. NM: Kerry 27%, Dean 27%, Clark 25% n/t
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. First or second here would be a soothing balm
to the soul! Third is ok, for delegates, it would be an amazing accomplishment without advertising. A first....I'd have to cry with joy. A second would put a zip in my step. :)

The process is NOT over! :)
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. soothing balm turned to burning acid... 3rd.
I'm one very depressed Dean voter tonight.
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Anwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Ouch.
Me too :(

But in reality no wins were expected tonight. But I'm sure we were all still hoping for that elusive miracle to happen.. Damn.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not even flustered
I picked my candidate long ago after looking at all of them I am not compromising because it seems to be the in thing.

Howard stands up for what I believe. He earned my support long ago. I dont give up on my principles that easily.

Besides we are going to win NV on the 14th !
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. And Washington and California. ;) n/t
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nights like this aren't as fun as if we were winning, but I'm 100% Dean
regardless. His message is the same, so's my support.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. No matter what, no one can take away the positive effect OUR campaign
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 11:47 PM by Lisa0825
has had on the Democratic race. When the Democratic nominee wins, it will be thanks to Dean and to us, no matter who gets the nomination. I am still working for and pulling for Dean, and nothing will get me down.
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Anwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Even though I knew Dean wouldn't win tonight
it's still hard not to feel bummed. Dean changed the whole Dem party message, and so far he hasn't reaped any of the rewards.

BUT I will never give up hope and I continue to support Dean all the way!!! I'm going to donate right now...

:)
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Anwen
Just a few thoughts for heart....what would the rewards be?

He wanted to:

1) Reshape the debates. He did that.

2) Reshape the party. He did that.

3) Reshape the nation. He can't do that really until he's president, and it may not happen. On the other hand, it may.

No matter what, never think this campaign has been without rewards. He did things no one thought possible. He may do things no one ever thought possible. If he does those things, he does them with your hope and your efforts.

Good things have been accomplished, it's just there is more good stuff to do.
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Anwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thanks for some perspective :-)
Very, very true. I just wish he's get some more respect and recognition -- as in votes. But yes, the rewards are definitely there in respect to what you said. That is something to be thankful for tonight. :-)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. I just posted Mr. Neels message as well..
It's easy to get down, but I am remembering we didn't plan on any wins tonight.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Some of use were hoping for a small miracle though
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Well that miracle may come soon. We just have to hang on
... It's rough right now though.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. A small miracle
Every pundit is talking about Dean and why he didn't do better, and they are ALL saying how good his message was. He's not out, he's not done, and miracles only come in the wee dark of the night.

If it helps any, remember the odds Dean faced, how far he had to come to change the shape of the debates. It was a long shot, but he was the freaking energizer bunny, my daughter sees him as the little engine that could. He reshaped this ENTIRE primary.

Keep heart, I know this is a hard night to do so. Get some sleep and give it thought. You may be right. But as long as he's making a stand, holding out, arguing issues, I am supporting him.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. Dean did pretty well in some states tonight for not campaigning in them
You guys have nothing to be bummed about. I may have my issues with him and some of the posts get thorny back and forth...but he sat these states out...there's only 9 states down and he did well and got delegates anyway.

No long faces allowed. Really. I don't see his campaign being done. There's lots of big states where there is good organization left.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. I'm still there for Dean!
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. Only 10% of the delegates have been claimed
Anyone who thinks this primary season is over has been drinking too much of the DLC Kool-Aid.
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Anwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. The sad thing is...
most people don't know this, and will never know this. The general tone of the media is that Dean's campaign has sunk while Kerry appears invincible. So lots of people will start to gravitate towards the "winner"

That's why we all have to work our buns off for Dean! It's not going to be easy, but it CAN be done :)
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm tempted to say
forget the media. This is a ground roots campaign. My republican co-workers keep hoping to twist the knife in every time Dean gets kicked. At first they were grinning, amused at my demo-naievete. Now they are asking me why I like this guy so much, why am I not switching to the "obvious" candidate?

My answer is always "look at his record".

I'll append a part of that record, but will reply more in depth to the post here. Most people WILL know this, they WILL hear it....just be patient. Deep truths take time to sink in, but when they sink in, they're bone deep. And that is why I think the Dean core is so faithful and unwilling to switch. It's in the bones.

To reiterate truths for your friends and family:

Regarding slashing of social programs, what exactly did Dean do in his 11 years in office?

1) as of the year 2000, Vermont was rated 2nd best in the nation for the quality of medical care provided to Medicare beneficiaries
2) as of the year 2003, Vermont was ranked 3rd best in the nation for prescription benefits provided to Medicare beneficiaries
3) signed into law managed care consumer protections that are among the toughest in the nation
4) established the “Success by Six” program, in which Health care providers, social service agencies and others cooperate to connect parents with resources ranging from job training to parenting classes
5) overhauled Vermont's traditional system of paying for public schools with local property taxes, shifting funds from rich towns to poor towns through a "sharing pool," sparking an explosion in education spending,which has been up by 40% since 1997
6) ensured that virtually every child under 18 and more than 90 percent of adults are eligible for health coverage.
7) created the Domestic Violence Fatality Review Committee to identify strengths and weaknesses in the community response to domestic violence
8) established initiatives which included mandatory work requirements and lifetime maximum benefits, but were balanced by their support of children and their working parents with health care, child care, and job training (more at: http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/ofa/ngachn/child~36.htm)
9) increased investment on Child Care Services by 176% since 1991
10) instituted the first state protocol for abuse investigations. In return, Vermont saw a 45% decline in physical and sexual abuse of children. This included a 64% decline in physical abuse victims ages 0-3 and a 43% decline in physical abuse victims ages 0-6.
11) increased human services funding by 33%, and education funding by 25%

I could go on. Based on a record like this, I find it hard to perceive him as a bungling idiot who intends to randomly slash social programs. What he HAS done consistently is show a willingness to tighten the budget for a purpose: balancing it. We’re not talking about “starving the beast” here, or making efforts to permanently cut programs. If anything, it seems to me he has a record for making short-term sacrifice in order to achieve a sustainable economy with adequate funding for social programs.

A few specific claims were made in the original post: “Throughout the 1990s, Dean’s cuts in state aid to education ($6 million), retirement funds for teachers and state employees ($7 million), health care ($4 million), welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled ($2 million), Medicaid benefits ($1.2 million) and more, amounted to roughly $30 million.”

Did the cuts in state funding for education coincide with #5 posted above, for example? Or was it a short term cut made which he later corrected for starting in 1997? Either way, spending on education is up 40% since 1997. The author states he cut retirement funds for teachers and state employees. On the other hand, “signed into law agency fee protection for the state employees union, thereby providing union security for state employees” (http://www.nwaforchange.org/nwa/downloads/Election_Guide/09dean.pdf)

In any event, based on these observations, I think it fair to predict Dean would not run rampant slashing and burning social programs in the presidency.

Regarding “regressive” taxation:

1) again, when Dean entered office, the highest tax bracket in Vermont was paying the highest state income taxes in the country.
2) he cut income tax twice, removed the sales tax on most clothing, and reduced the state's long-term debt.
3) he raised the state's minimum wage twice during 11 years in office.
4) he created tax incentives to attract and keep new companies.
5) he created 41,000 jobs

In effect, he did one hell of a remarkable job for Vermont’s economy, and tax breaks like eliminating the sales tax on most clothing is the sort of thing that helps the average working man. Some of the benefits he offered to the average working man aren’t necessarily apparent at first glance.

On Roe v Wade and Women’s Issues, during his governorship:

1) he appointed more women to office than any other state governor
2) he signed an executive order enhancing state assistance to victims of domestic violence
3) he challenged the term "partial birth abortion" from a medical perspective, saying that it is a "code word" for extremism
4) pregnancy rates for young teens dropped 49%.
5) Vermont was the first state to institute a statewide protocol for abuse investigations. In return, Vermont saw a 45% decline in physical and sexual abuse of children. This included a 64% decline in physical abuse victims ages 0-3 and a 43% decline in physical abuse victims ages 0-6
6) He has consistently, irrefutably argued that what a woman does with her body is her own decision and none of the government’s business.

So, Roe v Wade may not be the litmus test he relies on, but it seems he is willing to fight for women’s issues in ways that actually work. What about this is there to criticize? One poster did raise an important issue, concern that stance on Roe v Wade should be the litmus test for judicial appointments. That’s valid. Unfortunately, I’ve had little luck tracking down info on his judicial appointments, other than their names (Jeffrey L. Amestoy 1997, Marilyn S. Skoglund 1997) and un-related issues.


Lastly, concern was raised that he flip-flops. Probably so, although it’s not unusual to find a person revising their opinion upon further consideration.

Anyway, those are more thoughts. Hopefully, they are non-inflammatory.

And the urls where all of this came from, for those who care to peruse the data and sources for themselves, are as follows:

http://ventura.fordean.org/ventura/
http://fordean.org/aa/issues/environment1.htm
http://www.nwaforchange.org/nwa/downloads/Election_Guide/09dean.pdf
http://www.ajs.org/js/VT_methods.htm
http://www.women.state.vt.us/legalrtw.html
http://www.politicsus.com/presidential%20press%20releases/Dean/112403b.htm

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