I was lucky to have the parents I had...religious but open-minded.

[madfloridian]

I have done much family research, and I understand why all of my family was so deeply a part of the religious community. My first ancestor on one side of my family was a minister in early Virginia. That line had a Methodist minister in every generation from then on.

Another line was mostly Baptist. They came also in the 1700s from Northern Ireland. They were pastors of churches in Alabama and Georgia.

My parents were very active in the church. I was raised there. Most of the social life in my early years was spent at church picnics and dinners. That is how it was here. It changed as I entered college.

I had professors at the two colleges I attended who forced us to question our faith, to confront the realities of the rest of the world. It was hard, but I did it pretty successfully. My parents were thinkers, clear-headed, and they sat down with me during those years, reading the philosphers along with me, helping me see that I could find my own way in all that.

My parents were seeing the changes in the Baptist churches here before their deaths. It was hard for them to deal with it. People like Bakker and Falwell and Robertson were turning out to be crooks and scoundrels. But they still kept their faith, just saw through the trappings of it.

People like this make up a huge majority of the those in the 700 club, at CBN, people who are religious, but being disillusioned by those they trusted.

Many people on this forum are like me, they are making their own religious and political journey, trying to comprehend this world as it is.

I have changed a lot of my views this week, though I did not plan it that way. My so-called "fundie" neighbors have shared a lot of my pain this week. A lot of them are better people than some here think. They know we left the church because of the war, and now they share that pain as well. They have their journeys to make also.

[Warpy]

1. My pop confided in me just before he died that he no longer

believed "all that Sunday school crap," as he put it. All I could say was that I hadn't believed it for a very long time (no news to him), that nobody knew for certain what was going to happen, but that I'd been close enough to it to have a wonderful feeling of peace as everything just sort of fell away, all the nagging worries, all the possessions, all the things left undone.

He seemed comforted by that.

He didn't seem particularly comforted by the priest who came to visit, but said the guy had made the attempt and he saw no reason to be rude. I quite agreed and had gotten out of the way when the priest showed up.

His passing was quiet and uneventful, just a slight grimace at the end and he was gone.

I miss him terribly, but none of what I've been through has caused me to change my mind one bit about the Sunday school crap. If there's pie in the sky when we die, it's still irrelevant to what we do here, and what we need to do here is care for each other, not groove on what might be.

I know other people are slowly waking up from their long dream of Rapture and realizing the same thing. I wish them well on the journey.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. My dad was a very devout man who was studying

to be an Episcopal priest in this retirement when the early signs of dementia stopped him in his tracks. His faith appeared to fall from him as rapidly as his mind did. He didn't say anything negative, he just said very little at all. Things like church ritual, which has been his life, fell from him. He did NOT find refuge in prayer or the Bible or the Prayer Book as I would have thought. It was made very clear to me that "religion," per se, is just human trappings. I comfort myself by saying that in his soul, he was no different. He was still a kind and gentle man. but it was without any semblance of faith whatsoever. During his Last Eucharist, however, he said the words from memory and accepted the chalice, which was very moving to us all, as he had not spoken for many months.

It is all a mystery.

[last1standing]

2. Good post. I hope we've all learned this week.

I've learned some things I already knew but had forgotten somewhat. Things like religion stirs up strong feelings as do most of the beliefs we have grown up with, passed from our parents and loved ones. Also, that asking someone to defer or give up their inherent rights is a form of downright cruelty.

Mind you, I still think we have to work to change some people's long held beliefs and also ask others to live with discrimination while we do so, but I don't like it at all.

In the end, marriage will be sanctioned for all couples, but it will not be easy. Good luck to us all.

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. Religious but open-minded, unlike Pat Robertson

Why can't you just let this die already?

[madfloridian]

5. Leave me alone to post what I want. Please.

I don't hurt you, I don't seek out your posts.

The topic is important to me. It is not fair to misinterpret and do this. This was a sincere post. Please do not do this.

[Arugula Latte]

6. Why would you post something and not expect responses?

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

7. I love responses..bad or good.

That is not the point here.

I can't go into it.

There are a lot of people like me who are sort of caught in between left and moderate, and I was using the best words to try to explain.

Feel free to respond as you wish, just don't ask me not to post my feelings when I am being honest. I requested a post be locked rather than argue yesterday, and I am not going to do that tonight.

People are afraid to say what they think here sometimes, and I know that many feel similar things.