God On Our Side or US On God's Side?

[omega minimo]

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was a guest on the NewsHour this week, discussing her new book: "Mighty and the Almighty: Reflections on America, God, and World Affairs." She made some striking comments about how religion affects diplomacy-- including this regarding current U.S. policy:

“What is happening, though -- and I think very specifically now -- is the interpretation that religion has been given by this administration, in terms of showing or saying that God is on our side, whereas I think it would be more important to say that we're on God's side, as President Lincoln said."



“And the fact that we put it that way tethers us to a policy, which I think has made it more difficult to get supporters. We have narrowed the choice of those who can be with us.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/jan-june06/albright_5-10.html

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I actually think that, if one looked at -- the Middle East is obviously the most complicated place that we have. But I have often said that, if Jerusalem were just a real estate issue, we could have dealt with it a long time ago.

The fact is that both parties believe that the land was given to them by God. And, therefore, trying to get religious leaders involved much more in dissecting the religious question, so that there is a sense of understanding. It isn't just a bunch of political people saying, "You take this piece, you take that piece," but having religious leaders be able to explain to each other why it is possible to have agreement would help.

I actually think that there are a variety of places that already there are religious discussions going on among leaders. There is a Cordova process, named for the city in Spain where Christians, Jews and Muslims did get along in a certain period, looking at the common aspects.

We could use more of those kinds of processes, then bring the religious leaders in, not specifically at the negotiating table, but then to validate some of the processes.

<snip>

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, it does, because we are a very religious nation. And we have religious discussions here, and people expect us to take a particular view because we see ourselves as a religious nation.

What is happening, though -- and I think very specifically now -- is the interpretation that religion has been given by this administration, in terms of showing or saying that God is on our side, whereas I think it would be more important to say that we're on God's side, as President Lincoln said.

And the fact that we put it that way tethers us to a policy, which I think has made it more difficult to get supporters. We have narrowed the choice of those who can be with us.

And so, at this stage, I don't think that the way that we're proclaiming our religion is being particularly helpful in trying to solve some of the problems that are out there.



Swamp Rat :loveya: art con permiso :patriot:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. She'll be on Afterwords this weekend...

On Saturday, May 13 at 9:00 pm and Sunday, May 14 at 6:00 pm and at 9:00 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After Words: Madeleine Albright interviewed by Georgie Anne Geyer

In her new book, "The Mighty and the Almighty," former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright discusses the role of religion in shaping U.S. foreign policy and affecting how the U.S. is perceived abroad. She explains that it is important for Americans to understand how religion motivates others around the world, rather than trying to keep religion out of the political conversation. Madeleine Albright is interviewed by Georgie Anne Geyer, columnist for Universal Press Syndicate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1173344

:)

[omega minimo]

2. Dirty job but somebody's gotta do it

:hi:

[omega minimo]

3. Food for thought

[blm]

4. Kerry made that point at his convention speech - media deemed it unworthy

of comment or discussion.

[hfojvt]

8. it was Edwards who pulled the Lincoln quote out in one of the debates

the Democratic debates that is. I wanted to turn those stupid "God Bless America" bumperstickers around though and make them say "America Bless God". But too many people would still think the way to honor God is to be sexually repressed and not cuss, and ignore things like compassion, cooperation and consideration.

[blm]

10. As they were working as a team then, no surprise they'd use the same quote

to underscore their point.

The shame is that the media decided it wasn't a point worth discussing after either made it at such crucial times, one during his convention speech and the other during his debate.

[IndianaGreen]

5. Gott Mitt Uns - God is with us

The German imperial army had "Gott Mitt Uns" stamped on their belt buckles.

The late Pope John Paul II warned Bush that if the US went into Iraq, it would do so without God.

The Almighty favors no nation!

GOTT MIT UNS (or "The Uses Of God")
Delivered by: Dr. Edward Frost

“Gott Mitt Uns.” I first saw the phrase while poring through my uncle’s memorabilia of his service in the first world war, the war in which he sucked nerve gas until his organs would never work right again. Along with his deeply-destroyed body he brought home the stuff in the cigar box: a couple of shell casings, some ribbons, some French coins, and a belt buckle. The words were engraved in gothic relief on the bronze buckle. German soldiers wore those buckles, my uncle told me. And, he said, the words mean, “God With Us.” “And that means?” I asked. “The German soldiers believed that God was on their side.” “But how could that be?” I said, “They were the enemy.” Ah. Out of the mouths of babes is parroted the foolishness of their elders.

My uncle was quick to point out that from the German’s point of view; we were the enemy—thus, “Gott Mitt Uns.” “Did our soldiers have words on their belt buckles?” “Nope. We didn’t need ‘em. We knew God was on our side.” I probably went on and on about how we knew God was on our side but the point was made, God was ours, whoever “we” happen to be at the time.

From the 33rd chapter of the Book of Deuteronomy in the Hebrew Scriptures, “There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun, Who rideth upon the heavens in thy help, And in his excellency on the sky. The Eternal God is thy refuge, And underneath are the everlasting arms: And he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; And shall say, Destroy them.” I find it ironic that the lines, “The Eternal God is thy refuge and underneath are the everlasting arms,” are frequently used as words of comfort at funeral Services, with the following lines, of course, omitted, “and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; And shall say, Destroy them.”

<snip>

God was invoked by kings and popes to carry out the slaughter and ravages of the twelfth and thirteenth century crusades. The motto of the crusades was “God wills it.” It was true, said the theologians and monastics of the Middle Ages, that Christ taught peace and love. However, they said, violence may be necessary to bring about the conditions under which the missionary endeavor can be carried out.

The American Indian learned that. On the American continent, good Christians, like Columbus and the Puritans, began with the slaughter of the “savages,” and moved over the bodies of the people into their lands by the doctrine of “manifest destiny.” It was the editor John L. O'Sullivan who coined the phrase in his United States Magazine and Democratic Review prophesying “the fulfillment of our manifest destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence. . . .”

http://www.uuca.org/sermons.asp?SermonID=74

[omega minimo]

6. Completely different ring to:

"it would be more important to say that we're on God's side, as President Lincoln said."

On gods side even sounds plural :gasp: !!

[opihimoimoi]

7. Delusional rationalization

[RedTail Wolf]

9. Lincoln had it right