My pledge: For 2008, I will NOT support any DLC-backed President.

[Hawkeye-X]

Who's with me?! I'd rather go left or find a grassroot candidate who can take it by the horns.

[skipos]

1. No thanks. I am not going to repeat Nader 2000. nt

[smartvoter]

2. And have another Bush? No way I can join you in this. nt

[Hawkeye-X]

4. Clinton is DLC.

I will not back her.

[smartvoter]

22. I do not want Clinton, but I will take her over this crowd. I'll take

friggin' Scooby Doo over this crowd.

But I hear you and think it sucks that we have this internal battle over clear bullshit on the part of the DLC.

[Clarkansas]

3. Sorry, I am not with you.

I may not agree with some DLC policies, but America won't survive with Republicans controlling all branches of government.

[iconoclastNYC]

26. Some?

Which ones do you agree with?

[Hippo_Tron]

34. Uhh, the one about how George Bush is bad...

Err at least on some things.

[Demi_Babe]

28. my sentiments exactly

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. I'm with you

I've had it with the corporations running our country, and while we're at it, take away their "person" status.

[Mz Pip]

6. Sorry, won't go there

What makes you think that the DLC won't back a candidate who is not DLC who end up winning the primary?

The people will vote and I do believe that the party will end up backing that candidate.

I do not look forward to another Repug Presidency. Stevens will likley retire in a couple of years. Do you really think a DCL approved candidate will pick the same replacement that say, Bill Frist would??

Mz Pip
:dem:

[iconoclastNYC]

DLC candidate will lose in the general

Because he appeals to nobody but the DLC corporate elites.

If you want the Democrat to win you want a real Democrat not a cheap DLC facsimile.

[onenote]

58. then how do any of them get elected to the offices they now hold?

[ieoeja]

75. The chair of the DNC.

"What makes you think that the DLC won't back a candidate who is not DLC who end up winning the primary?"


Because they have repeatedly attacked the chairman of the Democractic National Committee since his election earlier this year. In fact, I think a better question would be, what makes you think they that the DLC WILL back a non-DLC candidate in light of their public attacks on the chairman of the DNC since a non-DLC chairman was elected?

[Nite Owl]

7. I hope that doesn't happen

but if that is what the party nominates then I will not work in any way to get them elected nor give a cent. I won't vote.

[Placebo]

8. F that.

Go join or start a third party if that's going to be your extreme view.

[mike_c]

9. with you 100 percent....

Actually, I won't vote for any candidate that supported the war against Iraq, but I figure that's likely synonymous with "DLC backed candidate."

[politicat]

10. Molly Ivins taught me that the better can be the enemy of the good.

In the primaries and the early days, I vote and support with my heart and money those grassroots and serious libs. Dean and Kucinich were my choices in 04 and I worked damn hard for them both. But when they both backed out, I refused to do what a lot of Dean and Kucinich supporters did and walk away. I worked just as hard for Kerry.

At general election time, I'll take whoever is just marginally better. I wasn't alive, but I heard a lot of stories about voting for McGovern instead of Humphrey, and splitting the ticket, letting Nixon win.

Never again.

I may have to vote with my fingers crossed and a clothespin on my nose, but I'll take half a loaf or a slice. I'm comfortable. The single mom with two pre-schoolers and an absent partner may need the millimeter's worth of more social programs that the DLC candidate offers.

I pretty much cut my political teeth in Arizona. Arizona teaches liberals a lot about taking the best of a bad lot. Kinda like Texas, but without the local color.

[GymGeekAus]

17. I'm with you on this one.

But if Ivins herself breaks ranks, I will probably follow her.

That's my litmus test.

[SaveElmer]

11. Nope...not a f*ckin chance!!!

Count me OUT!

[BillZBubb]

12. This bullshit is really getting annoying.

Any Democrat, DLC or otherwise, is better than any Republican. PERIOD. If you don't understand that, you don't belong here.

I don't like the DLC. I think the DLC does great harm to the Democratic party. I will work in the primaries for the best NON-DLC candidate. But, if a DLCer gets the nomination, I will do whatever I can to help him or her beat the Repug.

Take you pledge and shove it.

[ruggerson]

15. Agreed completely n/t

[iconoclastNYC]

20. How many bad nominees are you prepared to

Plug your nose and vote for in November?

The primary race is a game, it can be "influenced" by the DLC and it is and it may continue to be. The Democratic leadership better wise up and fix the primary system so that special interests cannot game the system for thier desired outcome.

Dean in 2004 was done in by the DLC and if they do it to the populist candidate in 2008 i'm done with the party.

If the assholes who run our party don't want it to be split they need to do more to unrig the primary game so that the people's candidate can actually get on the ballot in November.

[blondeatlast]

71. Word. nt

[JeffR]

13. HawkeyeX, I love your posts

But I'd vote twice for Holy Joe before I withheld my vote for a Democrat or sat it out entirely.

Sorry, but there it is.

[sonroadera]

14. Have we learned NOTHING from the 2000 election?!?

America has truly sucked since republicans took over, and our solution is to vote 3rd party in a general election? If that is the case, we are truly screwed.

[iconoclastNYC]

16. I agree 100%

DLC is a corporate conspiracy to take over our party for the moneyed elite.

DLC candidates do not motivate the politically disengaged.

DLC candidates encourage the liberal base to splinter off.

DLC candidates when elected continue to support the corporate agenda over the people's agenda.

DLC bashes liberals constantly.

DLC killed Dean's candidacy by coordinating swift-boat style attack ads from Gehphart and others in New Hampshire and Iowa.

The DLC is the closest thing we have to evil in our party.

[welshTerrier2]

18. well, i'd phrase it differently

i don't give a damn whom the DLC backs ...

and i'll go even further to say that i don't care whether a grassroots candidate or some big name person gets the nomination ...

i'll be voting based on the candidate's position on key issues and the candidate's willingness to stand up and do the right thing ... still supporting the war in Iraq? no thanks ... didn't support full equality for all Americans because it had political risks? no thanks ... won't wage all out war against the lobbyists and the big corp stranglehold on our government? ... no thanks ... don't care to speak out against an imperialist foreign policy that sacrifices American troops for corporate profiteering? ... no thanks ... don't want to be to aggressive about all this global warming business? ... no thanks ...

i'm willing to cut any candidate some slack on tactics and timing ... but the above issues are fundamental to our way of life, how we treat one another and what role the US plays among the other global citizens ... you want to tap dance around that, i'll be looking elsewhere ... it's time to stop all the political nonsense and start fighting for our survival and our vision of the future ... to me, the DLC ain't nothing but fly specks ...

[MrsT]

19. "Take it by the horns" and get 2% of the vote?

What a great idea!
:rofl:

My pledge: work hard on 06, get democrats elected and save us from republicans.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Amonester]

23. Doing this would be the same as saying NO to the following:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1148036

"(1) Obey the law, and Protect civil rights in this country.
(2) Tell the truth, and tell it to Americans all the time.
(3) Fire the incompetents, and Restore competence and integrity to Washington.
(4) Chase the money changers from the temples of democracy, and reclaim it for the grassroots of this nation.
(5) Bring our troops home from Iraq.
(6) Find Osama bin Laden, and Secure our ports and homeland.
(7) Stop subsidizing “Big Oil,” and start investing in energy alternatives.
(8) Make access to affordable healthcare a right and not a privilege for ALL Americans.
(9) Reduce the deficit, and Respect work over wealth.
(10) Invest in education, and Fight for American jobs that restore the American dream."

Because that's what you don't want? Or perhaps the Repukes who would then win because of a split in the progressive votes would do just these anyway? Not a chance: it's been so long... Any longer waiting for these would be as good as kissing these all goobye forever.

[stuartrida]

24. Thankfully, most Democrats aren't like you.

The Democrats I know support their candidate in the primary, and support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[iconoclastNYC]

29. Good germans!

The primary can be fixed.

[stuartrida]

31. So republicans loan us Diebold for the primaries and then

we have to give them back to them for the general election? :rotf:

Kerry sure wasn't my pick, but the people lined up to nominate him.

You may think of democrats who vote for the candidate who wins the primary as "good germans," but I think it takes an even better german to watch the last 6 years of republican rule and let them win without trying to do something about it.

I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do everything in my power to keep the government away from republicans.

[iconoclastNYC]

32. It doesn't have to be DIEBOLD

It can be a coordinated hit campaign to politically destroy someone. It happened in 2004. First to Dean and then to Kerry.

[blondeatlast]

72. The namecalling is getting more than tired. nt

[Der Blaue Engel]

25. I'd rather chew glass than let another Republican "win"

No. I am not with you.

[moobu2]

27. Yea

waste your time, throw your vote away and do your part in helping elect a thug Republican to office so they can finish destroying what’s left of this country. That sounds appealing to you?

[Stinky The Clown]

30. I'll die before I don't all I can to prevent another Republican president

[Alamom]

44. Well said. Our country and way of life depends on it. Not maybe,

definitely. Another 4 years of this and we are doomed...if we aren't already.

[Uncle Joe]

64. Someone call 911! Husb2Sparkly is down!!! n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

65. Whew! Thanks man .....

....... low blood sugar .....

[Uncle Joe]

66. I would offer you a Snickers, but all I have is some popcorn, have some.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[Golden Raisin]

33. I've spent my entire life

voting for "the lesser of 2 evils". I'm sick of it. Both parties are utter disgraces, but at least the Republicans are organized, methodical & successful. Evil frequently is. IF there is a 2008 presidential election at all (I could see Bush suspending elections & the Constitution if there's another domestic terror attack --- real or stage-managed) I guess I'm going to have to vote for whatever piece of shit loser the bungling Democrats put up because the Republicans really are bringing us at supersonic speed to Fascism.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. See here's the problem, John Paul Stevens is in his 80's...

And Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a cancer survivor. Normally I'd say that if Democrats support the same pro-corporate policies as the GOP, then what's the point? Well, the point is that depending on how Alito and Roberts turn out, we might be one heartbeat away from overturning every good Supreme Court decision made since Brown v Board of Education. I will have to vote D merely for the Supreme Court nominations.

[blondeatlast]

73. This post deserves a thread of its own.

In 2004, I tried to make fence-sitters and moderates aware of the SCOTUS risk and succeeded in some cases.

If its's bad now, in 2008 it's going to be life or death for the Constituion--and she's been terminal for some time now...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

36. Yeah, good luck with that.

:eyes:

[Stockholm]

37. Your strategy might lead to President Frist

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Nope...

But, thanks for thread...it speaks volumes!

[AtomicKitten]

39. I'm out.

In the primaries, I will not support anyone that voted yes on the IWR. However, in the general election, I will support the Democratic nominee whoever that may be. I've had enough of this regime and ANYTHING is better than that.

[Tactical Progressive]

40. Hillary is DLC and will make a great candidate. Gore too. And Wes

Kerry for that matter.

I will support any and all of them.

[AtomicKitten]

41. Gotta have more Gore.

[Tactical Progressive]

42. That's a great picture

You don't see too people that happy, at least as adults.

[SaveElmer]

62. I've got a fever...

And the only cure...is more Cowbell...I mean Al Gore!!!

[bowens43]

45. Actually , none of those three could win against any of

the likely republican candidates.

I will support the Democratic nominee but surely we can do better then these three losers.

[onenote]

59. any suggestions?

[Clark2008]

70. Clark's a loser? Gore?

Clark has more of chance of flipping red states than Biden or H. Clinton or Kerry or, well, nearly anyone.

And Gore, well, you know, he actually WON the popular vote (and ultimately the vote in Florida when they recounted everything).

[Clark2008]

69. Wesley Clark is NOT DLC.

And, I somehow doubt Gore still is, but Wes never was.

[bowens43]

43. Sounds pretty damn foolish to me.

But if you want to help put another Republican in the oval office , have at it.

[Selatius]

46. I don't like the DLC, but there's no option in a two-party system

You either vote for the Democratic candidate, or you split the vote and punish yourself with another Republican.

The two-party system does not give you the option of voting for anyone else. You are only left with trying to change the Democratic Party from within.

[wyldwolf]

47. The times they are a-changin'!

Used to be that an OP like this got more virtual hi-fives that swat downs. Crazy how eight years of Republican rule reverses that and makes one yearn for a Democrat of any stripe.

But you seem to have given up on the mighty netroots KOSian "I'm going to make the DLC radioactive" schtick awfully quick.

[wyldwolf]

48. self deleted

[ShortnFiery]

49. Yes, that's my plan too! :-) eom

[union_maid]

50. Then you're voting McCain '08?

This debacle of an administration, this empowering of the extremes of the right...that hasn't convinced you?

Math. Simple math and an understanding of our political system should convince you, then. We are a two party system. I don't care what inroads the Green party might have made in small progressive communities or anything like that. On the national stage, we have a two party system. We can't change that simply by not wanting it to be so. As a result, we have to encompass all the different groups and interests that might be represented in a parliamentary system within our two parties. It's going to be frustrating sometimes. It's a block to progress. It's the system we have and you can work with it, or you can try working to change it. You don't work to change it by pretending it doesn't exist, however.

If you don't vote for the Democratic candidate for president you might not exactly be voting for the Republican, but it's something close to it. If you help to support a third party, you're engaged in an activity to move votes from the party closest to it in policy. We went all over this in 2000 and it worked out just as predicted, only about a million times worse than was anticipated. Please...enough with the "I'm leaving" crap. The things that hang in the balance now are HUGE.

[William769]

51. Hope you have fun finding another web site to spew your vitriol

Because it will be a DLC backed candidate, which means you won't be supporting him or her, which means...

[mmonk]

52. I'm with you.

[Adelante]

53. I pledge

not to do as you propose, because it's totally dumb.

[PassingFair]

54. I'm with you, HawkeyeX, ...kinda........

I'll vote for the dem. *

But I WILL NOT work for a DLC candidate.
Fair enough?

They can buy my vote, just like they'll buy the rest of 'em.

I will canvass and WORK and WALK for progressives only.

That goes for my donations, too.

*Exception: If I lived in CT, I would vote for even a PUKE
over Lieberman, just to send a message to the traitor.

[SOS]

55. DLC/Pro-war Dem will lose anyway

Latest Quinnipiac poll shows Hillary losing New Jersey by 14 points to both McCain and Giuliani.

[Lerkfish]

56. if you mean IN THE PRIMARY (or caucuses), I agree. otherwise, no.

I will support like hell any non DLC hopeful, until a candidate is chosen, then I will support whoever that is, whether I have to bite my lip or not.

[onenote]

57. You're on your own as far as I'm concerned

[Kablooie]

60. Great idea! Let's give it to the Repubs again! Yahoo!

[Agony]

61. Not a chance! half frigged up is better than totally fuc*ed up!

I still don't get the Nader thing, I don't know how he can be so wrong and so right all at same time.
It is certainly partly because he could not bring himself to support a DLC corporate shill, and at the core that is what this thread is about.

March of the Idiots!

[safi0]

63. The DLC

Will eventually back the nominee even if it isn't their primary choice. If Feingold wins the nomination, the DLC will in all likelihood back him in the general. Would you really not support Feingold in 08?

[Robbien]

67. I am with you

DLC = rich global elite backed politican

[martymar64]

68. How about this idea?

The DLC should pledge to refrain from backing (or attacking) any particular candidate at the primary level and will back whatever candidate is nominated.
That way the rank and file of the party decides who the candidate will be and not some inside-the beltway corporate teat-sucking wanker like Al From (our party's resident Grima Wormtongue).
So if we nominate Kucinich or Dean or Feingold or Clark or WHOEVER WE WANT, the DLC will back us up 100%. But at the primary level, they cannot attack another Democratic candidate. I don't want to see another gang-up like what they did to Dean.
We can only win by offering up a candidate that will energize the base, not just the mushy middle.I'm personally sick of the DLC undermining the efforts of the rank and file and offering mediocre candidates that either won't fight back against the Rethugs (Biden, HRC) or that openly embrace the Rethug agenda (I'm looking at you, Joementum).
The party MUST unite in fighting the Rethug agenda, and I will not tolerate DLC gusanos calling the shots and sowing discord in our party. It's because of them that we've lost Congress in the last few elections. They simply need to STFU and go along with what WE THE PEOPLE decide, not the other way around.

[Bruden]

74. Vote Democrat!

[Missy Vixen]

76. Locking

Flamebait.

Thank you for your support,
Julie
General Discussion: Politics moderator