Howard Dean is a visionary...

[SaveElmer]

He is looking down the road to when Democrats are competitive everywhere - bothe geographically, and philosophically. He is looking to the day when Democrats don't have to cherry pick their way to an electoral majority...

Going on the 700 club was a stroke of genius...

Unless we start cracking the strangle hold the Republicans have on certain sectors in society, we are going to be at a disadvantage. I am not suggesting that we will make huge inroads...but if 2% peel away from the evangelical community (Jimmy Carter took a majority of the evangelical vote in 1976 btw), then it will be worth it

He is fighting the war on all fronts...

[Clark2008]

1. I agree.

I don't necessarily agree with what he said, but I do agree we need to take baby steps in the direction of gay marriage via civil unions.

However, I DO agree that Howard Dean needs not to simply preach to the choir (no pun intended). There are many people who watch The 700 Club who are not batshit crazy and might actually see this as the Democrats having a "plan" (something the media keeps saying we don't have).

[ChiciB1]

2. Just Heard On C-Span This AM That Dean & Other Dem Heads

had big clash either yesterday or a couple of days ago! Seems those who NEVER wanted Dean are still at it and THEY are doing a DIS-SERVICE to the party!!

Too many big honchos in the Democratic Party have been negative toward Dean since Day One and I feel it's high time they stop. I realize Dean has been controversial at times, but all the same he WAS elected fair and square and THEY had better "get over it!" I would suppose these people include mostly Hillary backers, but am not sure. I do know that both Rahm Emmanuel, Paul Begala and the "Ragin' Cajun" have all stated that they want Hillary to be the nominee!

Those who came up with a successful plan for Clinton seem not to be able to get off the dime. While I have to commend them for the previous efforts it seems to me that it would more beneficial to the party if we had UNITY! I think this ONE aspect of the Democratic Party has been a primary factor in losing elections. I'm sure there are those who disagree with me because that's what Democrats do.

I'm just saying we need to UNIFY now or it's more of the same! I say PERISH THAT THOUGHT!

[SaveElmer]

4. I understand what Rahm is thinking...

He is in charge of getting Democrats elected this year...he thinks he needs a certain amount of money to get it done, and Dean disagrees...

Rahm is looking out for the Party too...

It will blow over...this is inside baseball...99.99% of the people could care less frankly!

[OzarkDem]

23. That explains a lot

about all the Dean bashing going on at DU these days.

[MissWaverly]

26. Please no Senator Clinton as the Democratic nominee

Please, no, Please, no. And although, I admire John Kerry greatly, I do not
want Mary Cheney's rant played ad infinitum. Since 2000, we have seen 52
ignored memos that resulted in the death of thousands, we have seen a unprovoked
war based on questionable intelligence, we have seen widespread corruption in the
Republican leadership nantionwide, we have seen questionable election results,
questionable follow-up on government responsibility for the loss of a major
US city. We now have emerging scandals on unauthorized government searches
and wiretaps and torture and imprisonment of innocent people.

I want to move past Swiftboaters and Mary Cheney and anyone else who is
hurting America. I don't want to hear about Monica or about Vietnam or
what LBJ ate for breakfast. I want to deal with the issues here and now.

[Solon]

3. It was ineffective at best, divisive at worst...

Have you actually read what he said, it did nothing to disabuse CBN viewers from the idea that Democrats are gay loving anti-Christians. Seriously, can you imagine Pat Robertson viewers trying to even attempt to find common ground with a Muslim or Pagan? Dean called for that, and being one of the "unsaved" as it were, he isn't even worth listening to for the couple thousand people who actually probably saw the interview. The same for his call for Civil Unions, as an example, this pisses off GLBT folks because of its "separate but equal" implications and at the same time pissed off the Conservative Christians who watch CBN all the time, they want GLBT folks to disappear, they don't care how, banish them to the four corners of the Earth, etc. Either that or "rehabilitate" them, Focus on the Family style. These people aren't worth are time.

[SaveElmer]

5. I disagree....

Millions watch CBN...they are not all whacko's...they probably have not been exposed to rational discourse before...it also helps with moderates...shows the Democrats are not one note wonders.

[Solon]

6. Its a hate network, no more, no less...

and wouldn't appeal to moderates either. Hell, most people outside of the fundies around here never even HEARD of CBN, but then again its a mostly Catholic area of the country, maybe its different in other areas. But seriously, Millions? I didn't know that many people are THAT full of hate. Seriously, I one time turned to the 700 club, and the CBN report ONCE, I swear I thought I was watching some weird parellel dimension that came into being on this channel only. To be honest they freak me out, and any regular viewers of this program I honestly do NOT want to meet, ever. :scared:

[NYCGirl]

7. In NY, The 700 Club is shown on the ABC Family Channel — CBN was sold

to ABC a while back, but the contract says that "The 700 Club" must be kept.

[Solon]

8. I know that its the same here, they have the report after the initial...

Intros, with special stories from CBN or some shit. All I know is that these people freak me out. Maybe Dean can go onto the Jack Van Imp ministries, best to get those "end of the worlders" on board as well. :sarcasm:

[SaveElmer]

9. Did you have the same reaction when Ted Kennedy spoke at Liberty Univ.

A few years ago?

[Solon]

10. He was a dumbass for doing it so yes...

Really, what is the point, I critisize people for doing dumbass things that make no sense. To be honest, Dean I think did this out of ignorance, he's from Vermont, so he probably thought that CBN was popular in the Red "flyover" States like Missouri, when in reality it is no such thing. I mean, seriously, the ONLY time the 700 club is on in my area is around 11 PM, and the only reason I know that is because "Who's line is it anyway?" is on before that around here, change channel as soon as that show is overwith. I think its repeated once during the day, I'm not sure though, and I don't even think it hits the Neilson ratings at all, so saying millions watch is is inaccurate to say the least.

[gully]

29. I have family members who've watched that network,

they do not realize that they have a political agenda. I think Dean is doing the right thing. Remember people who watch CBN are gullible, they need a rational voice.

[On the Road]

32. My Mother Is a Phone Counselor on the 700 Club (or Used to be)

She is one of the sweetest people you will ever meet.

Now, I think she's confused and believes a lot of the wrong things. But even if it's difficult for you to understand, CBN viewers are not all full of hate and are not all complete automatons. Dean's appearance is a very good thing. It is a part of the 50-state philosophy, of conceding nothing to the Republicans.

Individuals completely flip beliefs more often than you would think. Fascists can become Communists and vice versa. Reagan (himself a convert from socialism) changed the minds of a lot of working class Democrats. Seeing an exemplary person from another viewpoint is often often part of the process. Dean's appearance alone is not going to do that, but can be part of a broader trend.

People change belief loyalties when events undercut their own belief system and when they feel betrayed. Timing is critical. Dean seems to be one of the few Democrats who understands this and has the optimism to take it seriously.

[madfloridian]

35. Thank you so much for posting that. My parents were saints.

They saw through Robertson, but loved the sermons and the services. They were good people.

[Solon]

39. I don't know about meeting your mother...

She sees my Pentacle necklace and she would most likely try to convert me, or at least insult me. Please don't take my assumption as a personal attack, just personal experience on my part.I can't even wear it in my area without being accosted, and these are "Moderate" Christians!

[napi21]

36. You might be surprised at some of the people who watch CBN & the 700 Club.

Several relatives of mine watch. They literally HATE Shrub! Bought their dog a GWB chew toy! The guy who owns the dog told me, Rosie (the dog) chewed "W" a NEW ONE! He's a minister, and he listens to the 700 Club, although not all the time. He also detests Falwell and Robertson, but religion is a big part of his life.

I know what you're thinking, and I reacted the same way when his wife first told me they turned on that program. She said "I know, sometimes it's awful, but sometimes it's really good.

It's unfair of you to demonize everyone who even mentions the CBN. Some of them are on OUR SIDE!

[BR_Parkway]

12. Not to mention that he completely pissed of GLBT folks when

he stated that the official Dem platform was marriage=1 man/1 woman.

They've just released a retraction to correct it that the official Dem platform is All families, LGBT included.

[SaveElmer]

13. Actually what it says...

Is that the issue of gay marriage should be left up to the states!

[BR_Parkway]

14. Dean today issued the following statement:

"I misstated the Democratic Party's platform, which does not say that marriage should be limited to a man and a woman, but says the Party is committed to full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and leaves the issue to the states to decide. The Democratic Party remains committed to equal protection under the law for all Americans. How we achieve that goal continues to be the subject of a contentious debate, but our Party continues to oppose constitutional amendments that seek to short circuit the debate on how to achieve equality for all Americans."

Please don't get me wrong, I've supported Dr Dean's message and style of taking on the Repugs instead of caving in to them. I can also see reaching out to those not in the fold to spread your message. But for way too long, the DNC only needs gay folks for money and votes - but most of their actions show they prefer not to have to publically embrace us the majority of the time. I'm tired of supporting a party because they are the lesser of two evils. When more Dems like Hackett and Feingold come out loud and strong to say LGBT's are American's and deserve to be treated just like all other American's - maybe I'll feel differently. Until then, I'm just part of the little group that somehow managed to cost everyone else a Dem President in '04

[SaveElmer]

18. After that statement...that Dean quoted ...is followed

By a sentence saying the issue of gay marriage is a state issue and ought to stay that way...

[tishaLA]

30. No, actually.

I says "marriage has been defined at the state level for 200 years, and we believe it should continue to be defined there." It doesn't say anything about same sex ("gay") marriage or heterosexual marriage. The platform did the right thing by not differentiating.

[SaveElmer]

31. Ok that is true...but

There would be no other reason to put it in there...it was in reposnse to that debate.

[GOTV]

20. Well, now he's opened himself up to...

... being called a liar, or a flip-flopper or out of touch with his own party. I can hear the commercial now: "The Deomcrats said that marriage equals one man and one woman, then they said it doesn't. Even they don't know where they stand."

How could Dean make such a mistake on such a fundamental issue?

[OzarkDem]

27. Welcome to DU!

Actually, flip-flopper is a tired old GOP meme.

[GOTV]

33. So?

What I said stands. He's given them something to beat us with. He should know the Dem platform. It was a stupid mistake.

[OzarkDem]

25. GOP talking points

You may want to reconsider. Give it some time and thought.

[xchrom]

28. i don't support AT ALL his decison to go on cbn

and i'm starting to have big problem with this state by ate strategy re: marriage equality.

so do we let the idea of marriage equality go the way of roe v. wade -- outright banned in some states chipped away at in others?

i'm not assured in any one's thinking that i am equal in this dust-up except other glbtq folk.

i am very disappointed.

[Maat]

34. And I heard Alan Dershowicz (sp?) state the other day ..

that he didn't like the "Roe v. Wade" decision; he felt that they had been succeeding one state at a time. As a female law graduate, I think that Alan is full of baloney.

As far as I'm concerned, GLBT persons are entitled to equal protection of the law when it comes to guarantee of fundamental rights, and that includes the right to same-sex marriage.

[OzarkDem]

24. Kind of surprising

that the gay Dem community is flying off the handle without checking their facts.

Its almost as if they were being manipulated by the GOP.

[madfloridian]

15. A lot of good people watch CBN. They make up their own minds.

What is going on here is making all Democrats look bad, this making fun of people who are Christians.

My parents used to watch shows like that when they were alive. They were very smart and very religious people who could tell the good guys from the bad.

You are being insulting to many people like me who were raised in that environment.

We left our church, but I still have the foundation my parents left me of being a Christian who thinks for herself.

Dean was right to go on there. He issued an apology for misstating the platform.

[Solon]

16. I never made fun of people who are Christians...

I said, and will restate it that what I was saying is that those who watch the show are the freaks, either they like self punishment or they like to make fun of Robertson. But really, what else can you get from such blatant hatred as is spewed on this program?

[madfloridian]

17. You are being judgmental of a very large group of people. Freaks?

You are calling the people who watch that show freaks?

[SaveElmer]

19. And of course you have some kind of proof for that...

A demographic study, ratings analysis...stuff like that?

[Solon]

21. What do you mean?

The show is designed for Fundies exclusively, by definition and by inference from observing the show in action, its a wall to wall hatefest of everything they define as anti-Christian or immoral. What can you get out of that except for observing the enemy?

[Charlie Brown]

38. Have you WATCHED the 700 Club?

It's not even a news or current events show. It's a plank for Robertson to spew his hateful beliefs, which are principally aimed at Muslims and gays/lesbians, though also at catholics, jews, atheists, liberals, and anyone else he dislikes. After each "news" segment, Robertson informs his viewers how to interpret the story and what to think of it (just like the Dean interview).

Intelligent people are not a part of the 700 club's audience. It's for people who can't think.

I can't believe I am listening to people defend this bs at DU.

[rniel]

11. If not now then when

Bush at 31% approval is about the best time to go on the 700 club.

[OzarkDem]

22. He's rebuilding the foundation

of the Dem party in the US. His work will benefit us for many years to come. Previous Dem leaders had really begun to let the party infrastructure go to hell. Dean is rescuing it again, with his 50 state strategy and rebuilding of the party base.

[Charlie Brown]

37. Does this mean you want to see Dean sit down w/ Fred Phelps or the KKK?

How far does "everywhere" go?

If we make pacts with some of these people, we're going to compromise our principles of free speech, equality, and public charity, because that's exactly what CBN's audience will want to become "part of the fold."

Civil rights leaders never attempted to compromise with hate groups just like FDR never attempted to negotiate w/Nazi Germany and Japan. Both knew there was no altnernative to victory.

CBN is a hate group, and Dean is most certainly no visionary for breaking bread with them.