How do you feel about this candidate's response regarding abortion?

[rockymountaindem]

" CP: How do your personal religious beliefs against abortion contribute to your democratic pro-choice vote?

BR: I am opposed to abortion. It’s a matter of conscience. But I also am not making it any part of my agenda to change the law. My agenda is to reduce unintended pregnancies — to do that through restoring funding to Planned Parenthood for teen pregnancy prevention and family planning education, to do it through emergency contraception widely available and to even look at our adoption policy and to make sure that our adoption policy is broad enough so that women and girls who carry their pregnancy to term will have the option of adoption if that’s something they want. My agenda is not about changing the law of the state."

FYI, the candidate in question is Bill Ritter, the Democratic candidate for Governor in Colorado. What's your take on his abortion stance? Is it acceptable to you? For the party?

[Ravenseye]

1. I think it sounds ok.

I think that he sounds rational about it. As long as it's safe legal and private, and the person doesnt' deem to change that then it's his right to be opposed to it. It's when he wants to put his belief's on others that I have a problem. His view sounds simliar to the Big Dog's actually. Safe Legal Rare.

Actually I kind of like it. He's opposed to it, but instead of making laws infringing on people's privacy, he's providing alternatives, pregancy preevention, contraception, etc. He's actually doing something positive and proactive without impinging on others beliefs.

[cmkramer]

38. You do realize, don't you

that he's doing exactly what the DLC recommended Democrats do? That instead of emphasizing abortion they should emphasize ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies (and not just "abstinence only")and to do more to support adoptions for those who choose that path.

[Scout1071]

56. Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with that.

A comprehensive approach to women's health in general.

[American Tragedy]

2. Sounds fine to me., as I'm only concerned with the legal component.

So long as it remains safely and legally available, I couldn't care less about any officials' personal feelings on it. Choice goes both ways - someone who doesn't want an abortion doesn't have to get one.

[xultar]

3. It is a perfectly appropriate stance. To be honest who is FOR abortion?

I'm for choice. We are all pro-life. In a perfect world there would be no abortions. In a perfect world we'd have the children we want, have access to free health care and birth-control and there would be no rapes and accidental pregnancies.

I can't see anyone having an abortion and being jazzed and happy about it. Preventing unwanted pregnancies is the key.

[rockymountaindem]

7. I posted this because a lot of people in the Colorado state party

are worried that Ritter is either some kind of dark horse anti-choice candidate (a wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will), or the first step down a slippery slope to an anti-choice policy in the whole state. My problem is, as per usual, making the perfect the enemy of the good will only result in the election of a strongly anti-choice Republican in the same vein of our current Republican governor (who has also bungled pretty much everything else in his job description to boot).

[Mend]

4. he left out the part of helping a young, unmarried mother

if she decides to keep her baby. Help such as subsidized day care, job training, money, etc. There are women who would choose to keep a pregnancy if they thought they could afford it.

[valerief]

8. Oh, all those faith-based recipients from the Mega Churches take

care of them, don't they?

:sarcasm:

[xultar]

9. Which is what pisses me off about RW. They are more than happy about

wanting to force you to carry to term after that they scoot-the-fuck out of town.

IF they put up 1/2 the dough they do for fuckin with women outside of clinics more women would have children if they want.

Usually economics play a big role in abortions...that and career opportunities for women.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. It's that old lawyer joke (sort of)

When I worked as a volunteer lawyer on some death penalty appellate cases, and the rightwingnuts always came after us for representing our clients, an old lawyer told me that they were the folks who were mightily interested in keeping every little baby safe until it exited the birth canal and entered the whole as a whole, yowling human being.

Then, they wanted to sentence it to death if it misbehaved.

[vikegirl]

5. I don't care if he's *personally* opposed to abortion.

My question: Is he opposed to CHOICE?

As long as he's sincere about not changing current law *and* the Dems continue to own the legislature, I'm okay for now.

[alarimer]

17. Would he sign a law similar to South Dakota's

if the state legislature passed it? I am not from Colorado so I have no dog in this fight but this is my question for pro-life Dems who run for governor.

[vikegirl]

28. The legislature is D controlled

so for now that's not likely. But he *says* he won't change the law, so we'll have to take his word that nothing like the SD debacle will happen.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

30. That's my view as well.

His "feelings" are his. It's about the law and supporting a woman's constitutional right. Will he uphold it? If yes, then fine.

[Spirochete]

34. Doesn't seem as if he's opposed to choice

so much as he's in favor of making sure that as few people as possible are forced to exercise their freedom of choice in the first place. The anti-choicers are opposed to abortion AND birth control.

[Hand]

6. He's entirely entitled to his personal beliefs...

...but, as he seems to indicate, that doesn't include mistaking them for the law of the land or as the basis for changing it. I think he's absolutely spot on about reducing unintended pregnancies by all available methods--I mean, a condom's a hell of a lot cheaper and safer than an abortion. Um... but I wouldn't recommend that he make that his campaign slogan.

Bill Owens is such a fucking hypocritical, mindless cretin--Ritter would be a great, great relief, and an obvious contrast. BTW, who's the likely Repuke candidate?

Ex-Coloradan here...

[rockymountaindem]

10. Tell me how you really feel about Owens!

Seriously though, I haven't been around the state for this campaign much yet, as I'm still out of state at college. However, I'll be back this summer and I have been following things from afar over the internet. Right now, I'd say Beauprez will probably win the nomination over ex-DU President Marc Holtzman. While Holtzman has, as far as I can tell, built up some following among the party faithful, most still see Beauprez as more electable and more mainstream. Add to that the fact that Holtzman seems to be comitting more screw-ups than Beauprez and I don't think Holtzman is going to come away with the nomination in August.

The real question is, what are the odds that both candidates for a single nomination would have the letter z in their names?

[napi21]

11. That's the same position Casey in Pa. has.

I think it's a good and honest position for a candidate. I must admit, it's my position as well.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Is that true?

Not a challenege ... an honest question. I see that many decry Casey as being 'pro-life' ... and worse .... 'anti-coice'.

Since I'm not in PA, I confess to not having researched further than just reading about him here on DU.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

16. Personally, he is anti-choice,

but he's made it very, very clear - and garnered the support of many pro-choice groups - because, to paraphrase, his job will be to ENFORCE the law, not put his personal gloss on it.

He's good. I'm from PA, and I have lots of pro-choice friends who are whomping it up big for Casey. This is very good. Same as Tim Kaine here in VA, upholding a death penalty decision which flew in the face - as he publicly stated - of his personal beliefs. Devout Catholic who is just doing his job.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Good

I could live with that stance. Mot my favorite, but more than acceptable

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. It's a great start

The folks are catching on that the people we have to support have to be the ones who pick the judges.

We're catching on.

[dajoki]

49. I'm from PA...

and anything is better than Sanitorium.

[napi21]

25. Yes, it is. I don't live in Pa. anymore, but I did live there for 45 year

I still have a lot of friends and relatives in the pgh. area, and I keep informed about Pa. politics. I know there are quite a few Dems in Pa who don't like the idea that Casey is Pro Life, but I heard Casey say it himself, that he is prolife, but he doesnt believe in forcing is beliefs on others, and that he supports upholding a long established law.

[mandyky]

13. Perfectly acceptable for me!

Makes a lot of sense, because abortion legal or not, there will always be unplanned pregnancies, but hopefully not due to lack of education or availability of birth control.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. Tim Kaine, the new Democratic Governor of VA,

just refused to commute a death sentence, even though, as a committed Catholic, he's stated many, many times that he's opposed to the death penalty. He is just doing his job.

Sounds like Ritter is as good a man as Kaine. Let's hope he can stick to his word.

It's where we have to start, you know - not with the judiciary, but with the people who nominate and affirm the members of the judiciary.

Good for Ritter.

[noahmijo]

15. I am completely anti-abortion and so are you

Seriously who the hell actually ADVOCATES abortion? That's how they paint us and they are damn successful at it to due to lack of balls (or gravitas however pc you wanna put it) on our side's part to tell the story straight.

Abortion is an ugly terrible horrible thing that no woman should ever have to endure. Who in the right mind would encourage it?


No what we advocate is the right to CHOOSE to have an abortion or not. It's a woman's body it's her decision but never would we approach a pregnant woman and say "Hey you know what? you should abort that kid right now you know before it grows"


That's what the wingnuts paint us as being like and I am sick and fucking tired of it. STEP UP ALREADY PEOPLE!

BTW I agree with this guy 100%

[OldLeftieLawyer]

18. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Beautifully said.

NO ONE IS IN FAVOR OF ABORTION UNLESS THEY ARE CRIMINALLY INSANE.

And I'm so damn sick of how we on the pro-choice side - the ones who are truly "pro-life" - have allowed the anti-choice people to co-opt the language, steal the words, turn them around, use them against us, while we just let them get away with it.

They are NOT "pro-life."

They ARE "anti-choice."

Thanks.

[noahmijo]

23. Yea gotta love how the "Pro-lifers" even say that abortion kills innocent

children. Basically abortion is wrong because you are killing a completely innocent human being.


Yea the death penalty and war have NEVER done that before.


You and me pal WE are the true pro-lifers.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Damn right,

and I've been screaming my head off about this damn language hijacking for years and years.

I used to go to anti-choice rallies for the "pre-born" wearing my t-shirt that said "pre-dead."

No one ever said anything to me. I would have decked them, I swear.

[July]

41. I have mixed feelings about what you are saying, noahmijo.

While having an abortion is usually a difficult experience for most women, I guess I am an advocate for it in the sense that I want the option of a safe medical procedure for women who are facing an unwanted pregnancy. Considering the alternatives (forced pregnancy or back-alley abortion), yeah, I guess I'm for it.

And I'm not sure that it's "an ugly terrible horrible thing" for those who don't see it as murder. It isn't a "lovely fun wonderful thing," either, of course. It's a medical procedure that addresses a problem (unwanted pregnancy) that women will continue to face until foolproof birth control is widely available.

I am mainly pro-privacy and pro-choice, but I have to say that I am also for LEGAL abortion. I strongly feel, though, that birth control and sex education, along with day care and job training for those who want to carry to term and feel that, for economic reasons, they can't, should be advocated ALONG WITH legal and safe abortion.

[noahmijo]

44. You're getting too deep into this and that's the problem

Look we're on the same page no matter how far deep you want to scrape some philosophy out of this. The point is nobody encourages abortion no one in their right mind at least.

The wingnuts have us painted as people who proudly have or encourage abortions and what's more we do it while spitting on some image of Jesus Christ or Allah. I don't see abortion as murder at all, but I have yet to meet someone who has had it that felt anything better than relief but not jumping joy happiness like the kind of happiness you get at disneyland.

That is what I am trying to fight and I care nothing about what little mixed feelings someone who ultimately is on my side in this may have with the way I chose to word the argument.

The underlying point is we agree that abortion should be kept safe and legal and at the discretion of the person having it not the government. We don't wish it on anyone we don't say things like "You know if only 1 out of 10 women would just abort their kid we could decrease the surplus population" like the right likes to paint us as saying.

That's the whole point. Anything left over is moot at best. If you want to argue philosophical nuggets I think the energy would be best spent putting some freeper in their place by asking them why as good Christians they don't oppose war or the death penalty and that those items DO in fact take innocent lives.

[July]

46. Your post provoked some thoughts and my post was not intended as an

argument but as a comment. It's a topic I've spent a good deal of time thinking about. I can handle the topic with freepers, and I can handle it because I've considered at length the issues you've raised. So, to use your terms, I guess I care nothing that someone who is on my side thinks I'm getting too deep into this.

[aden_nak]

22. I don't have a problem with that either.

Simply put, we can't expect every Democrat to be "for abortion". I don't even think people should be "for abortion", but that doesn't decide the issue. Abortion is something that should be personal and not political. But we CAN expect every Democrat to do better than the stock Republican response of trying to get it outlawed. Democrats should be expected to look at the issue and, at the very least, come to terms with the fact that while they may not like the practice personally, and while they may even have personal qualms about it, it isn't their decision to make. And they should be expected to make sure that every individual has the access and the information to make that decision for themselves.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

26. Get the language right, please

This is SO important.

NO ONE IS "FOR ABORTION."

People like you, people like me, we're "PRO-CHOICE."

WE ARE "FOR CHOICE."

Abortion is but one choice. So is having a baby. So is using contraception. So is telling people to mind their fucking business about any woman's medical decision that she makes with her physician.

NO ONE IS "FOR ABORTION."

Don't EVER use that term again, because the rightwingnut right-to-lifers will hang us all out to dry with it, as they have since 1973.

Please, my friend. Language is all we have.

Thanks...........

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Language .....

.... and rage ..... and guts ...... and a good recipe for gravy

[MissMarple]

27. I am voting for Bill Ritter. I like the way he thinks...on this issue.

:applause:

[AtomicKitten]

31. I have no problem with his personal opinion on the issue,

and admire him for knowing the difference between that and the law and wishes of his party.

[Sparkly]

32. "I also am not making it any part of my agenda to change the law."

That's the heart of the matter, as far as I'm concerned.

It's about CHOICE. Hold whatever beliefs you like -- as long as others are respected.

[kestrel91316]

33. There is nothing wrong with being personally opposed to abortion.

I think what we all have a SERIOUS problem with is the idea that somebody other than the woman in question gets to make decisions regarding her childbearing and reproductive health.

It is possible to be both anti-abortion and pro-choice. I am probably fairly anti-abortion for myself (would I have an abortion personally or not), but I am RABIDLY pro-choice.

Not the church. Not the state. Woman must decide her fate.

[LUHiWY]

35. Abortion amendment?

I might be in favor of a constitutional amendment favoring very late-term abortions for some republicans and certain religious crazies. ;-)

[rockymountaindem]

36. Welcome to DU! n/t

[kestrel91316]

51. Yeah, THAT I could go for..................

[newyawker99]

53. Hi LUHIWY!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[trof]

37. No prob. Feel pretty much the same way.

There are much MUCH better methods of birth control, however I still believe a woman's control over her body trumps other considerations. Government has no right to make that decision for her.

[OregonBlue]

39. He has every right to his beliefs as long as he doesn't interfere

with mine.

[dorktv]

40. I hate abortion, but I cannot tell someone I do not know what to do about

their body.

[JNelson6563]

42. Minus the first part

It's something I could've said:

".....My agenda is to reduce unintended pregnancies — to do that through restoring funding to Planned Parenthood for teen pregnancy prevention and family planning education, to do it through emergency contraception widely available and to even look at our adoption policy and to make sure that our adoption policy is broad enough so that women and girls who carry their pregnancy to term will have the option of adoption if that’s something they want. My agenda is not about changing the law of the state."

Education, contraception, funding for both and sensible adoption policy are the best answers to the unwanted pregnancy issue.

Julie

[Jade Fox]

43. He sounds sane....

He is taking the "it might actually work" approach to ending the need for abortion, and I applaud him.

Every time these criminalizing abortion law-changers talk about making abortion illegal, they should have it pointed out that their goal would not end abortion. Then they should hear a proposal similar to this man's.

[Clarkansas]

45. Sounds good to me.

[rucky]

47. The people who ask the question will only accept one answer.

and that's not it. Since when did being sensible have anything to do with the abortion debate?

I'd like to say it was a "safe" answer, but anything off the script will inflame the extremes.

[wyldwolf]

48. safe, rare, and legal. My take almost exactly...

... except I'm not personally opposed to abortion.

[JerseygirlCT]

50. I don't care at all if he's personally opposed

so long as he's not interested in dictating that choice to anyone else.

And I agree that there is plenty of room to work in toward making unwanted pregnancies far less common: education, birth control, and sure, even looking at adoption. So long as the choice remains with the woman concerned. That's the crux of it.

[gordontron]

52. looks pretty good nt

[PaDem]

54. His stance is my stance............

I wish more Dems would articulate this.

[rocktivity]

55. It's fine--as long as it includes choice.

And I'd feel better if he said he WAS against abolishing choice, not just that it's not part of his agenda to. Would he stop others from trying to change the law?

:headbang:
rocknation

[SaveElmer]

57. Very sound strategy...

One the DLC has been advocating for some time now!

[Kashka-Kat]

58. Sounds great - I like "agenda to reduce unwanted pregnancies"

Finding the alternatives/ common ground w/ abortion opponents -- this is good work. Id add the need to find a safe, effective foolproof birthcontrol-- why not reversible vasectomies or some such? We are clever apes and there's no reason we can't have this. Here it is 2006 and we're still messing around with hormone pills and jellies and rubbers. Along with this has to come personal responsibility for our own sexuality and for preventing pregnancies ... it is the RIGHT WING anti-sex agenda I believe which is inadvertently the CAUSE of many abortions... think about that why dontcha..?

OF COURSE he has the right to be "opposed to abortion" in his personal view. We progressives need not be thought police.