A reversed personal opinion ........

[Stinky The Clown]

With Ford's signature affixed to that piece of tripe written for him the other day (Ford's support of Rummy, well covered elsewhere on DU), I was put back in time to his pardon of Nixon.

I recall clearly that **at that time** I felt it was good call. Brave, in some ways, given the mood of the country - a call for 'justice' that morphed into a meaner spirit of 'vengeance'. The notion of an American president - America, the shining beacon for the world - an American president on trial for crimes was more than I could bear. I was, then, a recently discharged Second Class Petty Officer with a hash mark. I served and felt I had a stake and a say.

Trying Nixon just didn't seem right. it was enough, for me, that he was gone.

Oh how I have changed.

NOTHING short of impeachment will satisfy me now. If we don't get that, then true criminal trials once we regain power.

And the crimes we'll try are not shades of gray. They're not technical infractions.

The crimes committed have names.

Like Treason.

Like War Crimes

Like Crimes Against Humanity.

Intentional lies to intentionally invade a sovereign country. One run by a heinous despot, but sovereign nonetheless.

Election fraud leading to outright election theft. (I honestly believe a charge of having performed a coup d'etat is possible).

We can talk about whether or not Ford was right to do what he did for/to Nixon in the 1970s. But to see anything less than the criminality of the current cabal would be the realm of the mad or the dead.

We must Impeach. If we cannot impeach we must try. And if we try, then, at the end, with respect to legal punishment, (as they so love to say) all options must remain on the table.

I was likely wrong in 1974.

I will not be wrong again.

[knowbody0]

1. i agree

the world watches. every day he is not impeached, his crimes are ours

[JeffR]

2. Brave post!

Personally, after impeaching Bush, I'd like to see the mortal remains of Nixon dug up and indicted too.

[Che_Nuevara]

3. Except that impeachment carries no penalty other than expulsion.

No jail time, no fines, nothin. "Nothing short of impeachment" is not much.

The reason it wasn't an issue with Nixon was because he resigned. Had he not resigned -- had he dragged the country through an impeachment trial with ends that could only be clear -- Ford may not have pardoned him, and he may have stood criminal trial.

[Vincardog]

5. After the impeachment and removal we can begin the criminal proceedings

or we can sent them to the Hague

[trof]

22. Egg-zackly

[Jai4WKC08]

8. Oh I don't know...

Being the only President in American history to be convicted of "high crimes and misdemeanors" would be a dishonor that would haunt his family name for many generations.

But a little jail time wouldn't hurt either.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. There is, in many ways, the greater weight to impeachment

Impeachment for cause - as seen by the government in representation of We The People - will bear on the impeached for all of history.

Is it as personally weighty as a trial, conviction and sentencing? No.

Historically - perhaps more.

But as I said in my OP, it is, for me, the minimum.

And it is also why I do not favor censure.

[neoblues]

4. Good, but both impeachment and then criminal trials! nt.

[Warpy]

6. We made the mistake of swallowing that pardon

because most of us wanted him GONE GONE GONE. He'd misused the power of government against us one too many times, and any excuse was a good one. We knew that pardon in the absence of charges was a terrible precedent that would come back to bite us one day, but the expedient of having him GONE without making a constitutional crisis out of that pardon (likely illegal) was a price the majority was willing to pay.

Yes, it was a terrible mistake, not only for the precedent sent whereby a president could issue a blanket pardon for someone suspected but never charged, but also because all the thugs who are dismantling government of the people, by the people and for the people got their start under Nison. More prison terms would have prevented many of them from coming back in 3 future administrations to wreck our country.

Never again. We suspect the right has murdered our leaders. It's high time to throw theirs into prison. If we don't, they keep coming back. That is the lesson of 1974.

[riderinthestorm]

25. This point deserve repeating

"Yes, it was a terrible mistake, not only for the precedent sent whereby a president could issue a blanket pardon for someone suspected but never charged, but also because all the thugs who are dismantling government of the people, by the people and for the people got their start under Nison (sic). More prison terms would have prevented many of them from coming back in 3 future administrations to wreck our country."

Cheney, Rumsfeld and a shitload of others never had to pay the price once Nixon resigned. And they are baaaaaaack......

The thugs presently in office silver stakes to the heart this time around. Resigning and pardoning won't be enough.

[rzemanfl]

7. Nixon should have been stood against the White House wall

and shot. The bullet holes should have been left there as an example for the next guy.

[fooj]

13. YIkes......

:hide:

[rzemanfl]

17. Never liked the guy...n/t

[NoPasaran]

18. I am with you 100%

[babylonsister]

10. I watched "All The President's Men" last night. That admin

got away with so many crimes, reminded me of this evil cabal. I agree, impeachment, and then hold them accountable.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. The crimes then pale in comparison

In many ways, they were the norm for politics. Dirty tricks and plumbers. Burglaries and a little eavesdropping.

Not as condonment, but ... well .... 'everybody did it' has some applicability.

But now?

Not

Even

Close

[Sparkly]

12. Also, inbetween Nixon and Chimpy, the GOP lowered the bar

Their definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors" in impeaching Clinton set the bar LOWER than we could have imagined.

What this cabal has done far, far exceeds that bar.

[TahitiNut]

14. Impeach. Indict. Imprison.

All of them. Twenty years to life. Padded cell and solitary confinement. All of them. Nothing less will do.

[babylonsister]

15. And I would so enjoy a good frog march! nt

[MissWaverly]

16. I agree

and I might add 9-11 here, and Katrina, both smack of incompetence, and a secrecy, anyone guilty
of negligence should have been punished. I was watching a report on 9-11 tonight, FEMA's own
report on the 9-11 disaster stated that they did not know why the buildings collapsed. Their
responsibility as government officials was to find out what happened, not to create spin to
"CYA". It's like George's famous statement "I asked Michael Chertoff, Why are all those trailers
doing still sitting there." He never gave Chertoff's reply, there was never an answer how the trailer issue was resolved, instead he went into a diatribe on big government.

[glitch]

19. I want a trial that is as famous as Nuremberg.

It will live throughout the centuries as a testament to Justice.

It is the only way our country will ever get a chance at being respected again. The only way.

[ldf]

20. now, now, now.

you don't want us to appear like vidictive democrats, do you?

:sarcasm:

i say they should all be tried and convicted of treason, and properly punished (if you get my drift...)

:grr:

[trof]

21. Yep. Nixon skated. I've never forgiven Ford.

I think all that "for the good of the country...binding up our wounds" was pure bullshit.

As bad as "resigned" looks in your political party's presidential box score, it doesn't look nearly as bad as "impeached, tried, convicted, served time in federal penitentiary".

And talk about a "blanket pardon".
Ford gave him an all encompassing damn circus tent of a pardon for anything he "might have done" or anything that he might be discovered to have done in the future.

The legal process for dealing with Nixon was/is there. If our country can't stand to let that process run its due course, then we don't deserve to have a country.
Maybe the Canadians will come govern us.
:grr:

[trof]

24. Oh yeah, he kept his pension and all the other ex-prez perks.

:grr::grr::grr:

[Agony]

23. Couldn't agree more!

and I truly don't understand why more don't feel this way. Crimes have been committed! Git'er done! (ewww, sorry couldn't resist)