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Howard Dean: "Voting machines not reliable & shouldn't be used"

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:39 AM
Original message
Howard Dean: "Voting machines not reliable & shouldn't be used"
Transcript from a talk Dean did April 12
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11436

David Grossman: Governor, one question by way of the blog Daily Kos. How concerned are you and others at the DNC about Diebold voting machines, and...

Dean: Very.

Grossman: ...other issues of voting fraud?

Dean: Very concerned. I am actually calling Democratic public officials. I called one yesterday to try to head off the use of these machines. We spent half a million dollars after the election with a task force, headed by Donna Brazile but made up of academics that were relatively neutral and very careful, to look at these machines very carefully. We concluded that are easily hackable and cannot be verified and that they are not reliable. And we concluded the best machine you can use is an opti-scan machine because at least it has paper ballots and you still get the rapidity of the counting. There are Democratic officials who still use these because they get huge amounts of money from the federal government to buy these
kinds of machines, well, not just ... the other machines, the Sequoias and Diebolds and such. I'm not an expert on these machines, although someone did actually teach me how to hack one on live TV once, which was kind of fun. It's pretty shocking -- I know so little about the intricacies of all this stuff so ... I wouldn't pretend I ... I did change the vote totals on the machines, but I don't know if it was really -- could have been a program that was elaborately programmed to fool me into thinking I was doing something I really wasn't doing.

But yes, our conclusion is that these machines are not reliable and they undermine confidence in democracy. I, as you know, keep in pretty constant touch with lots of people around the country, many of the people who supported me for President are people who are very much involved in exposing this. There have been some success stories in North Carolina, for example, the legislature wrote the bill so that essentially Diebold's unwillingness to provide source codes or any kind of reliability disqualified them from the bidding. So, we're pushing back on this hard. Republican legislators seem to think these are great things. We don't get very far in states that are controlled by Republican governors and legislatures, but we have had some success. We believe it's important to keep talking about these machines. These machines are a problem. This is not some Internet conspiracy; this is a serious problem that faces American democracy. These machines are not reliable and they shouldn't be used. We should not be using machines in this country where the results of the vote can't be verified after the fact. Period. Any machines.

Also see:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/22/13728/8193
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. I like it that he's speaking out about this, but aren't the machines
already mandated by Fed. law? I know there was some Fed law Allegheny County in Pa had to comply with, and they were running out of time. OK'd Sequoia machines with just days remaining to comply with the law.

In order to NOT use the machines, wouldn't the law have to be ammended?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. No! The "Hack America's Vote Act" does NOT require electronic machines!
They could have gone with paper ballots--but there is so much corruption around this Tom Delay/Bob Ney-engineered electronic voting boondoggle, they like to make you THINK it's required!

SEE...

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent: the key themes of "reliability" and "confidence".
No need to prove massive election theft. For now.

:thumbsup:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I like the way Dean answered that question. I like the way he spoke to
the whole issue and didn't shimmy around like Dubya and Condi do.

I like that the Chair of the party is smart, direct, and true. That's the kind of person who ought to be Chair.

And no surprise -- the man's a Democrat. Hot dog.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I just saw him live on C SPAN,
caught the end of a speech to the Spring meeting of the DNC in NO. He said that verifiable voting with a paper trail was essential in future elections. I, sitting alone in my LR with only my dog for company gave him a standing ovation!! My dog thought I was nuts! LOL:bounce: DC
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Well, DC, it's now clear to your dog that you know your politics!
Good for you to applaud Howard Dean. He's a good man.

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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I know what ya mean. I have 3 little dogs and they ALL know I'm
insane! If you could understand them, they'd be the most politically informed Dem Dogs around! The one always runs and hides when I scream at Shrub on TV too!
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Tee Hee hee!!
I've got mine trained to bark at all republicans, especially Ken Mellman and shrub!! It's a hoot! At least he doesn't think I'm mad at him when "mommy goes insane" He thinks it's time to play games like catch me if you can! Gotta love em.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. More discussion on Dean's remarks on electronic voting machines...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. SOME RESOURCES FOR AMERICAN REVOLUTION II:
Hopeful signs - latest news:

California voters sue the state over Diebold:
www.VoterAction.org is suing the state of California and 18 Calif county registrars on behalf of 25 California voter/plaintiffs, on the illegal Diebold "certification" by Schwarzenegger appointee Bruce McPherson.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2180496

Maryland rejects Diebold:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x418263

Florida - anti-trust accusations against Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia, re: heroic Florida election official Ion Sancho:
(FLA AG subpoenas the companies)
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/legalissues/story/0,10801,110192,00.html
http://www.tbo.com/news/politics/MGBKSY8W8LE.html
(info & discussion)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2183630

Utah county clerk fights back!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x419226

-----

More resources for American Revolution II:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.UScountvotes.org (statistical monitoring of '06 and '08 elections--they need donations)


(Activist sites with links to state activist groups or info)
www.votetrustusa.org (news of this great movement from around the country)
www.votersunited.org (good general info, and state links)
www.verifiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)

www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.bradblog.com (also great, and devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)* :patriot: :applause: :patriot:
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake, including state's rights over election systems)
Provisions of the PA lawsuit:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x423739

The Voter Confidence Resolution
http://tinyurl.com/rlnr2 (“We Do Not Consent”)
http://guvwurld.blogspot.com (GuvWurld blog main page)
http://tinyurl.com/amryg (Voter Confidence Resolution

www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.johnbonifaz.com (running for Massachusetts Sec of State on strong election reform and antiwar platform)

*Some tributes to TruthIsAll, who is very ill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417007
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417231
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x675477

Congressional bills:

Russ Holt's HR 550 requires a real paper ballot, bans secret software in "voting machines", and has more than 170 co-sponsors, but the audit required is too weak, it promotes electronic voting and centralized power, and the secret software might be permitted to continue in the central tabulators (the bill is not clear). To sign the HR 550 petition: http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
At lot of discussion at DU of the loopholes/pitfalls in HR 550:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x422926
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x421136
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=422967&mesg_id=422967
(Note: Senate Bill-SB 330 and House-HR704 simply require a "voter verified paper audit trail" (VVPAT), which may be best for the moment.)


Also of interest:

Michael Collins (Autorank)'s searing election reform article for New Zealand's Scoop.com
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x971363

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy! Title: "Poll Shock" 11/24/05)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col321.htm

Bob Koehler's latest: "Trust us: Take this box and stuff it" (3/16/06)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col337.htm
More Koehler:
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk


Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

------------------------------------------------

Throw Diebold, ES&S and ALL election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

-----------

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it." --Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Excellent post on a valuable thread. k&r
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. If Dean can orchestrate a clean vote, he should be sainted.
and the Dems will kick the ever lovin' shit out of the Republicans.

If.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. All Democratic legislators should make a united front against
electronic voting, and force it into public view.

Like tomorrow.

Maybe the good Doc could help orchestrate such an event?
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windy252 Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting this
It's good to know Dean is involved in this issue.:bounce:
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putino Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Indeed
Indeed, it's great that Dean is involved. But I'm still very worried about the use of Diebold machine in future gubernatioral election in California...
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Are you saying?
You no longer have confidence in elections?
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. !
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. "We believe it's important to keep talking about these machines."
Fine, but what are they DOING about these machines?
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JunkYardDogg Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. Only Commies, Atheists, and Traitors would question Voting
This is America
How could Elections possibly be manipulated?
These are machines, not people
Machines don't belong to Partisan Parties
They are nothing more than can openers
Can Openers don't rig votes
Therefore
Voting Machines can't rig votes
There
Case closed
It's so easy
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I read ya, junk
And I'm sitting here wondering.... is that sarcasm or idiocy?

Of course you are being totally sarcastic, because everyone knows can openers do not always open cans. Some cans a can opener can't open, like say, a five gallon gas can. And that any can opener needs a human to set it up before it can open a can.

---------------------

The real problem is that there is no longer full faith and confidence in the elections process of the type we had when we were kids. Too many citizens now believe that elections can be, and are, regularly stolen.

Imagine if the full faith and confidence we have in the American dollar were to meet a similar fate?

The one man in America who can turn the tide of the loss in confidence in basic elections, is Howard Dean. Thank gawd he's finally tackling the problem, eh?
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JunkYardDogg Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Actually, it is up to all of us to stop the machines
The mainstream Dems are still afraid of bringing up the subject
they do not realize how many of the general public, not even just the progressive base,
do not trust e-voting
But since they don't bring it up, they get no feedback
I have spoken at regular Dem club meetings and I get incredible feedback ,cause nobody
talks to them about this
If there is a grassroots public voice against the machines, the so-called leaders have to respond
if they don't respond, they are not leaders and
should be removed from leadership positions
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yep
Dean looks to be in a 'Saving His Ass Mode'... saving his ass from the grassroots he so correctly identifies with. Hopefully he is just testing the waters with these comments, 'cause if he doesn't make waves about e-voting he can no longer speak for me.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thank you very much for this!
I was just looking for this information this morning!

TC
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. Sing it out, Howard!
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