Our Candidates, through the eyes of a Southern Republican

[funky_bug]

My boss is a good ol' southern boy born under the rebel flag mentality. While his views are fairly intolerable, we had an interesting discussion yesterday, regarding the primary, and the upcoming GE.

He said, "I voted for Bush, and you know, I'd like to vote against him this year, but so far I don't see a reason why." This went into a question/response session regarding the various democrats. His take on the following...

Kerry - "Wishy washy, phony, pathetic...no better than Bush."
Edwards - "Southern boy with nothing to say."
Lieberman - "The closest I would go to voting against Bush."
Gephart - "Had he not dropped out, I would vote for him...the best of all the candidates."
Dean - "Yeah, right... what a putz."
Kucinich - "Love that ol' hippie love-child... we need him in Congress, but I wouldn't vote him over Bush."
Sharpton - "Preacher, not President."

So then, of course, I said, "What about Clark."

His response shocked me... he said, "Which one?" I replied, "General Wesley Clark." He said, "I know, which ONE? The one he was when he started running, or the one he is today, or the one he'll be tomorrow?"

This of course started a lengthy conversation, issue by issue on where exactly Clark has changes his views. We talked about abortion, the war, and his voting record. When all was said and done (and I want a medal of honor for battling with my boss on Clark's behalf) my boss said, "You know, I suppose I should do more research instead of just believing everything I see on the news and read in the papers.

The bottom line here: The media will choose the republican vote, and some of the independent vote, and even some of the democratic vote...UNLESS WE ALL DO OUR PART AND GET OUT THERE AND MAKE SURE OUR CANDIDATES ARE BEING REPRESENTED PROPERLY.

I'll add that after canvassing in my office for Clark, I put in good words for several of the candidates, and left my boss with the challenge to do some reading, do some research and TURN OFF THE TELEVISION!

[Racenut20]

1. Fear not, he will vote for Bush, and all his friends will

If he hasn't changed his mind now, he won't.

[patricia92243]

2. Born & bred a southerner-was Republican until the Clinton mess. Unlike 99%

of Southerners - who thought Clinton was the devil incarnate - I saw the dangerous power of the Republican party. That changed me to a Democrat and a Democrat I will stay.

The point I'm making is that your boss just probably wanted to get you to stop talking - sorry.

But you definitely deserve a medal for talking to your boss! Good for you!

[funky_bug]

21. Considering HE did most of the talking (as usual)

I seriously doubt that.

[Jivenwail]

3. I have always maintained

That most of America just coasts through what the media dispenses. There is so much more "under the surface" and everyone who cares about this country, about our Democracy, needs to read further. To study. To go beyond what they hear on the "news" or "read" in the paper. It's so distorted and so skewed - that for anyone who wishes to make meaningful change in this country, it's imperative to research and read. Go beneath the facade of controlled media BS.

I thank you for posting this, as it makes a valid point. I only wish that more people like your boss were open minded enough to follow suit. There is so much more about all the candidates. And we owe it to ourselves, our children and the future of this country to make totally informed decisions about the candidate we will vote for. Our very democracy depends upon it.

[For PaisAn]

4. Good job

Opening minds is not easy but kudos to your efforts. Don't let anyone tell you it was a waste of time. I believe we can be effectively proactive in challenging people to seek the truth, which is NOT what they hear on TV. I've been trying to do the same. So many sheeple, so little time.

[spooky3]

19. Yep, amazingly good job in getting him to admit that he needed to

do more reading and make up his own mind. His initial impressions of the candidates were clearly based on little info. And good for him for admitting it. I hope he'll follow up!

[Dhalgren]

5. I just have one question

about this little, well spun scenerio. Why would a "confederate flag" southerner, who plans on voting for Bush (unless some god-like Democrat can change his mind), why would this guy say of Kucinich "we need him in congress"? Why would any Republican who liked Bush and supports his war effort (that is implied by the continued Bush support), why would this guy "need" Kucinich in congress? He wouldn't. Nice story, though.

[Ripley]

6. And how can one go from Gephardt to Lieberman?

Gephardt fought tooth and nail against NAFTA...not even close to Joe's voting record.

And then Dean is a "putz." What exactly is that? And why is a physician who was governor for 12 years one? Because he yelled?

I don't believe anyone who says "Oh, I didn't know that, I'll have to do more research." How old is he? No one changes that quickly for such little reason. Now if he said he was pissed to high heaven about Smirky's lies, and was looking for a reason to vote D...

[Dhalgren]

7. Yeah.

This was a nice Clark "set-up" piece. A little transparent, though.

[RobinA]

8. I Have No Idea

whether this scenario is real or not, but do you really think the average voter out there knows who voted how when it comes to NAFTA? Do you think the average voter gives a crap about NAFTA? Do you think the average voter even knows what NAFTA is?

[Ripley]

9. If you are speaking to me...

1. This person is a "boss" so I assume he knows what NAFTA is, since it affects employment in America...BIG TIME.

2. If he doesn't know that Gephardt has been the only Dem to consistently voted against NAFTA for years and that's why he has had union support for years, well, then let's say this person knows nothing at all.

3. If this person doesn't know what any of these candidates stands for and how they differ, why should I give a shit what his opinion of them is? It's kind of like a vegetarian telling me which rottiserie dish to order...the Angus Tenderloin or the Bison.

And finally if you don't know what NAFTA is and you are an average voter, you are dumber than a doorknob.

[RobinA]

11. And I'm Saying

that if you think Joe Average Voter knows any of this stuff, you are deluded. Go stand in a mall and poll people walking by on which Dem candidate has been consistently supported by organized labor. Unless you live in Detroit or another union stronghold, they are going to stare at you blankly. Most people can't even name all the Dem candidates, let alone how they voted on NAFTA, or IF they voted on NAFTA.

You don't have to give a shit, but you were disparaging this person's story based on what I think is a seriously skewed version of how most voters think about the candidates.

[Dhalgren]

12. The point was

that this southern, Republican "boss" would have voted for Gep and /or Lieberman. Why? Describe the scenerio whereby someone who supports Bush would say that they would also support either Lieberman or Gephardt. And while you are at it tell me why a Republican southerner would say "we need Kucinich in congress". Thanks in advance.

[funky_bug]

23. I don't give a rat's...

ass if you believe me or not. For goodness sake, I'M not running for office, but if you want to do an investigation, be my guest.

I have no clue how my boss' mind works, and the less I know the better. The point of my post is that I was shocked to hear how he views all of the viable candidates... it's the same stuff FAUX, CNN and the likes are spewing on the waves, and I thought most people were intelligent enough to bypass the babble. For someone as opinionated, self-centered and bigotted as him to know so little about the candidates amazed me.

As far as a "Clark set-up piece", hardly. He said he'd vote Nader over Clark. I did my candidate NO favors, but not for lack of trying.

But, for your satisfaction, I asked him to clarify why he would vote against Bush, when he voted for him in 2000. He said his son is of draft age, and he may like "the ol' boy" but this war he has us in pisses him off. And I asked him what Dennis' appeal was, and he said that he may not agree with Kucinich, but "at least the guy don't lie."

[corporatewhore]

15. Actually alot of conservatives are worried about nafta/wto

they wont buy stuff from "Red" china they dont like the globalisation aspect of free trade they see it as "open borders policy"

[democratreformed]

17. I think NAFTA is a big issue to a lot of people

How many Americans have lost their jobs? The vast majority of those see NAFTA as the cause. The other day, I finally broached the subject of this election with my sister-in-law. That was her PRIMARY issue. The fact that her factory is closing in March and going overseas, she sees, as a direct result of NAFTA. I suspect that many people know about NAFTA than you realize.

[funky_bug]

22. Two reasons:

His 20yr old son

The draft.

[boxster]

10. Reading some of the responses to your post...

sometimes you just can't win, no matter what you do.

Amazing - you're being accused of fabrication solely based on narrow stereotypes of Republican and Southern voters. Unbelievable.

With friends like this, who needs Republicans?

Keep up the great work for Clark. While the media and Bush will unfairly trash all of our candidates, I still believe that they fear Clark as the nominee the most. Here's hoping he wins OK today and maybe a couple more!

[democratreformed]

13. Yeah, I was pretty depressed reading the responses to this as well

This primary is driving me nuts. So many times, the stuff on here comes very close to alienating me. That's all I can say.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[funky_bug]

24. Lord, do you guys want a blood sample?

This is kind of funny...

I promise, if I were going to make up a story, I go for a little more continuity. The amazing this about this conversation was that

a.) he wasn't eating the entire time he was talking
b.) his opinions made zero sense to me, and yet, it was media spun stuff we've been throwing back and forth on DU for months.

But yes, he hates fags, patronizes blacks, and has a confederate flag in his office. What can I say? You don't have to believe me. I'll still sleep good at night. It's like Marcus Aurelius said, "You can hold your breath until you turn blue, but they'll still go on doing it." I can defend my story to the hilt, but if you don't want to believe it, ya ain't-a-goin' to.

[boxster]

27. I suspect that the reactions have more to do with the subject of your post

than the content of the post itself.

[boxster]

26. I didn't say you were.

I said that responders to this posting were calling the original poster a liar based on nothing other than a stereotype. This accusation was made with nothing other than a sweeping generalization that all Republicans in the South think exactly the same way. So, this conversation could not have happened. Therefore, the poster must be lying.

That view is rather simplistic, though I suspect that the fact that this posting is about Clark has more to do with the reactions than anything else.

Stereotypes do not apply to 100% of voters or 100% of people, in general. Claiming that this conversation is fiction because all of the millions of Southern Republicans are exactly the same and all think the same way is misguided, at best.

Lastly, party affiliation is not absolute outside of DU. It is quite common for people to look at a person and his or her beliefs, and not just at the (D) or (R) by his or her name.

Edit: typo

[TheDonkey]

14. why would a republican WANT kucinich near the house?

[rucky]

16. Not all Republicans are interested in a one-party system

only the facists.

[corporatewhore]

18. If he is an old school conservative NAFTA/WTO

[funky_bug]

25. That's about as much explanation as I can figure...

Believe me, he is annoyingly opinionated, and I don't want to ask him about NAFTA/WTO... but he is old school, so if you say those two go hand-in-hand, then maybe that's it...