Should US Citizens Who Do NOT Vote Lose Their Citizenship?

[IdaBriggs]

For the sake of argument, let us assume a statutory three year history of "not voting" -- should these "citizens" lose the "privilege" of citizenship?

Discuss.

ON EDIT: Citizenship to be regained by ... 40 hours of Community Service? Other? Please suggest. :)

[Bacchus39]

1. no, they have coerced voting in other countries like Brazil

comes to mind. I don't think its all that effective.

[ginnyinWI]

2. that's a crazy bad idea

What, do we want to live in a totalitarian state now?
I'm of the opinion that people should only vote if they've taken the time to look at the issues, not because they HAVE to. Anytime somebody does something they have to, they are more likely to do it badly!

[Bacchus39]

3. I agree

I would rather have a small number of informed or interested people voting than coerced voting.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. How would it be regained?

Until that information is provided, I would have to vote for "You are out of your mind for asking the question."

Added Personally, I'm intruiged at the idea presented by Robert Heinlein in "Starship Troopers" (read the book; much more enjoyable than the movie.) In that world, citizenship may only be obtained by a period of service to the state, be it in the military, as a teacher, forest ranger, researcher, researcher test subject, construction worker maintaining infrastructure such as roads, etc. There is no penalty if you chose to give up before your term of service, you may walk away if you like (unless you end up putting others in danger as a result)... but you lose your chance at citizenship forever and may never try again. In the end, you end up with a self selected group of citizens who know first hand what is necessary to keep the country running.

Despite being a far right wing nutter, not all of Heinlein's ideas are disagreeable :hi:

[Syncronaut Seven]

7. As a big Heinlein fan

I must be blind to the "far right wing nutter" component, missed it completely. Now Ayn Rand.........

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. Many of Heinlein's ideas are far right libertarian

You see the theme constantly in his adult novels like "Stranger In A Strange Land" and "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress", and his near extremism against authority of any type seeps in to his teen novels like "Starship Troopers" and "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel."

Do a Google search, you will find lots of discussion on the matter.

[Syncronaut Seven]

18. Libertarians are a slippery lot.

not all are right wing. I embrace some points of Libertarian philosophy, while rejecting others. I can do that, I'm an independent ;)

In Heinlein's work, I saw a rejection of government and church coercion. Interesting, what you read as right wing, I perceived as an open examination of the values we live by in todays society.

I've also heard Heinlein described as a misogynist, due to the distinct, old school, male oriented viewpoint that he often adopted in his writing, yet I'm fairly convinced he actually liked women. So was his wife. Though I found this tone disagreeable, It didn't keep me from extracting some very worthwhile and profound ideas.

His teen novels were written for sustenance and heavily edited and directed by his publishers. I don't consider them his most definitive work.

I would recommend reading "grumbles from the grave", a biography written by his wife Virginia after his passing. A bit dry, but meaningful if you wish a greater understanding of this highly eclectic author.

The man was a genius, he was also very much a product of his time, as are we all.

[worldgonekrazy]

38. I don't think a libertarian would promote forced gov't service

In fact, I should think just the opposite.

[IdaBriggs]

12. Good question. How about 40 hours of Community Service to Regain it?

I like what Heinlein says about the concept of Responsible Citizens, too. In fact, it was a discussion on him in the Lounge a few days ago that provoked the question...well, that and the current freak out about illegal immigrants! :)

[Syncronaut Seven]

5. People who can't be bothered to vote

just piss me off. I think it's an idea worth considering. For the record, those who shirk their responsibility to vote have no claim on citizenship IMHO.

Don't like living in a fascist imperial dictatorship? Should have voted. Too late now, assholes.

[ihaveaquestion]

6. Give everyone a $50 tax credit for voting.

That'll get everyone out on election day!

[mark11727]

16. Or a coupon for a free I-POD...!

...people will FLY OUT TO WALMART and KNOCK EACH OTHER OVER, if they were giving away Shit in Shiny Gold Boxes, but will blow off that which separate us from all those "other" countries.

Sigh.

[ColdWarVet]

8. Again, apathy is a right....

As much as voting is a duty.

[Syncronaut Seven]

11. Apathy has never been an option for those who feel a sense of

obligation and responsibility towards the stewardship of their country.

Apathy is an ill afforded luxury, a mark of a spoiled and indifferent (sociopathic?)populace.

Like watching a shooting victim bleed out while asserting your "right" to watch him die. I don't see any difference.

[rinsd]

17. "I don't see any difference"

Then you have issues differentiating basic human compassion and a largely illusionary participation in government.

[Syncronaut Seven]

19. Is it any less "illusory" if we vote?

I was under the impression that the more people show up, the harder it is to throw an election.

My country is bleeding out, should I feel less compassion than if it were my own brother? If my sister died trying to staunch the flow? How should I feel then?

Feel free to elaborate on that whole differentiation thing, I'm truly interested in how I should feel.

[rinsd]

20. I'm not telling you how to feel

I could understand waxing poetic or some hyperbole but are you really equating not voting and watching someone bleed to death?

"I was under the impression that the more people show up, the harder it is to throw an election."

In what manner would it be harder?

My own feelings are that voting should always be encouraged, never coerced.

[Syncronaut Seven]

22. I don't consider it hyperbole

Our country is hemorrhaging, fast. People are, and will continue to die at the hands of these madmen. I consider the threat to be very real, the deaths quite permanent. Maybe your not there yet.

As far as election turnout, High turnout gives a more accurate picture of voter sentiment, just as higher samples in surveys have the same effect. Using the example of DU'ing a poll: you've noticed that once the respondent level gets above a few hundred it becomes very difficult to influence results. By the same token, sheer numbers can render ineffectual isolated incidences of vote fraud.

Also, exit polls become more accurate and harder to dismiss.

As for organized vote fraud, Sure, BBV seems an insurmountable problem, doesn't mean I stop voting, doesn't mean I stop fighting. I'm hard on computers though, no guarantee the touch screen will survive my vote.

PS: DHS. The last sentence is not a threat, we vote by mail here. 100%. Paper trail and everything. Oregon rocks!

[datadiva]

9. No because most of the people

who don't vote, would probably vote totally backwards of what we want them too. But at the same time, I don't think they should be able to complain about a damn thing either!

[AndyTiedye]

10. You Might Have to Chose Between Frist and Brownback

[IdaBriggs]

13. Or you could decide to run yourself. nt

[MercutioATC]

14. It's my right to vote. It's also my right to NOT vote.

Aren't we losing enough rights these days without entertaining something this silly?

[Syncronaut Seven]

21. I always considered voting an obligation

Different value systems I guess. The concept of "rights" is a strange one to me, my impression is rights are what the men with guns afford you. Nothing more.

[MercutioATC]

28. I agree with you, it's a responsibility.

However, I don't believe it's a responsibility that can be enforced. I may feel it's important, but it ceases to be a liberty if it's mandatory.

[bdamomma]

30. it is a privilege to vote

a privilege that we should not take for granted.

[niyad]

23. as mark twain (I believe) said, "if god had meant us to vote, he would

have given us candidates"

I cannot believe you are seriously asking such a question. One of the most important aspects of the franchise HAS to be not exercising it if there are no worthwhile candiates or issues. until there is an option of "NONE OF THE ABOVE IS ACCEPTABLE" on each and every candidate and issue, there are times it is just not appropriate to vote.

Remember--the "lesser of two evils" is STILL evil

[Syncronaut Seven]

24. There's always write in.

Micky Mouse always appreciates your vote! :rofl:

On edit: A vote for Samuel Clemens is also apropriate. ;)

[niyad]

29. I voted for pat paulsen in several election cycles (figured if we were

going to have a comedian in office, it might as well be a good one) and wrote my own name in one time.

but, I seriously think that "NONE OF THE ABOVE IS ACCEPTABLE" would be a good thing-people might be inclined to at least register their dissatisfaction with the lousy choices, and it might be a bit harder to claim a mandate when NONE got 70% of the vote.

(until some bright person changes her/his name to NONE, at least)

[0007]

25. Lose your citizenship? No way! But I do think a small fine could

be in order.

[The2ndWheel]

34. Ah, economic incentive

The only reason anyone does anything.

How small? Is anything too small if you're apparently letting your country fall apart by not voting for your favorite worst person?

[sendero]

26. Is there something in the Constitution..

.. or even statutory law that makes participation mandatory? No, nor should there be.

Frankly, a moron could see why Americans have tuned out of politics. It's not always because of laziness, sometimes it's because of futility.

[Syncronaut Seven]

27. Sometimes the most apropriate gesture

is one of complete futility.

When they come for you, poke them in the eye. That's my plan. Bastards.

[benEzra]

31. I vote regularly, but often leave parts of the ballot blank

in races in which I don't think either candidate is a good choice.

I can see someone sitting out a whole election if they think all the candidates are bad. I don't think they should lose their right to vote over it.

The problem with compulsory voting, as I see it, is that you get people to the polls who don't have a freaking clue about the candidates and don't give a flip about the issues, so they'll vote based on who has the slickest campaign ads or who plays best to their particular prejudices. Not sure I want people like that deciding who's going to run the country.

[Vidar]

32. Novel idea, but uder bushco, liberals would dsappear

gradually from voting as they already have from media except as strawmen.

[The2ndWheel]

33. Should citizenship be taken away

if everyone votes in a government that takes away citizenship for this or that reason?

Should citizenship be taken away if you don't "buy blue"?

Should citizenship be taken away if you don't think women should work?

Should citizenship be taken away from those who don't believe in the state as a form of society, and that the state should even have the power to grant someone citizen or non-citizen status?

[libertad]

35. No, sounds pretty authoritarian to me.

.

[Love Bug]

36. No, they lose the right to complain

Don't vote = shut the fuck up.

If someone doesn't care enough to get off their dead ass once every 4 years to vote for President, then they should forfeit the right to complain about the winner's policies for the next 4.

And, yes, I do make allowances for situations (like in Ohio) such as 20-mule-team long lines and broken machines. And asshole employers who won't let you have time off even though by law they must.

[Maine-ah]

37. I'm going with WTF option

how ever, it does piss me off when people who don't vote bitch about how the government is being run.

[Mountainman]

39. Having rights also means having the right to not exercise that right.

[TankLV]

40. No - they should lose their right to bitch about ANYTHING, however.

And I make it a point to tell all I meet in person when I discover that these cowards did not vote, but are the loudest complainers.

[CTyankee]

41. No. While I'd like to slap silly anyone who doesn't vote

I do have to say that the government should not have the power to make you vote. If they can do that, they can make you vote a particular way. No.

Let's not throw away our rights so fast, even tho we need "good government." Try reinstating Civics classes in school first!