Don't be stampeded into backing any candidate.

[Cuban_Liberal]

As any one of us can see, today's front runner can easily become tomorrow's 'also ran'--- just ask any Dean supporter. After two wins in small, insignificant, non-diverse states, Sen. Kerry is being hailed as the presumptive nominee, or so the media would have us believe.

Unfortunately, the last 72 hours have given many of us reason to pause--- reason to think that it's time to stop the 'stampede'. Sen. Kerry's questionable ethics and integrity as regards special-interest money offers a powerful argument as to why he should NOT be our nominee in 2004. This election is far too important to place our fate in the hands of a man who will be so easily smeared by the Rovian spin machine, so before you cast your vote, please remember--- there IS still time to back another candidate without the sort of ethical baggage Sen. Kerry is so clearly carrying.

Thank you.

[David Dunham]

1. Missouri will go big for JK; anti-Dean stampede due to attacks on Gephardt

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. Probably.

My argument still stands, however. :)

[MercutioATC]

3. WHAT? "Just ask any Dean supporter"??? What's THAT about???

I beg to differ. "Dean supporters" are in this for the long haul and we do NOT see our candidate as an "also ran".

[Cuban_Liberal]

4. whoa!

I wasn't meaning him specifically, but just as an illustrative case. No disrespect intended--- he's my #2 choice.

Peace. :hi:

[MercutioATC]

18. Peace...thanks for explaining...

:)

[Jerseycoa]

5. And then there is this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=252387&mesg_id=252387

[Cuban_Liberal]

8. Any of those contributions illegal?

Say, from Johnny Chung? His brother's law firm? The telecommunications industry? How about defense and homeland-security contractors (zing!)?

My point is still valid.

[sallyseven]

9. I will proudly vote for John Kerry

I know him and appreciate all he does. He is an Honorable man. I have voted form him many times and I have never regretted it.

[lancdem]

6. Every candidate has baggage

that Rove will try to exploit. I'm not sure the special interest thing will resonate much because Bush is hardly one to talk on that issue.

[Cuban_Liberal]

12. All baggage is not equal.

This is not 'small potatoes'. Sen. Kerry is an ethical cripple.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. Kerry's questionable ethics and integrity has yet to be proven.

Politicians write letters to help their constituents all the time. Kerry returned the Chung money, which I might remind people was also used on Saint Al Gore during the last election along with the Buddhist Church (nevermind Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition.)

If Kerry's ethics are SO questionable then why does he have the backing of UFW and the League of Conservation Voters?


This is the kind of post that really pisses me off. I think you need to google Dean and Monsanto. BTW, there are about a bazillion threads targetting the guy on your avatar for taking money from trial lawyers.

Again...this is why Howard Dean will never get my support. He is really killing the party to everyone's disadvantage with his whining which is insincere at best given his history with contributors in his state.

I have contributed to politicians through a PAC all my adult life. I did it in order to make SURE labor law was not tilted against the little guy in my state. I'm SO NOT SORRY THAT I DID!

[Cuban_Liberal]

10. You won't support Howard Dean because of this post?

That's not even logical... :shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. No. I won't support Howard Dean for the MANNER in which he has made

it an issue when he himself needs to show CLEAN HANDS on the state level.

Democrats need to win elections. Elections cost money.

The REAL integrity issue is when your vote is FREELY bought and sold to the highest bidder.

There has YET to be a shred of evidence that John Kerry has sold his vote to the highest bidder.

There is AMPLE evidence that the Republican party does.

Yes..I blame Dean for portraying our candidates as "slimy" and "on the take" when that is CLEARLY not the case for many of them, and is CLEARLY NOT the case as compared to George Bush.

It was REALLY stupid to do this to his own dubious advantage yesterday and today.

What is the difference between Ralph Nader saying "there is no difference" and Howard Dean using similar rhetoric.

Find me a SINGLE politician in DC that made it there without ANY corporate contribution. I'm waiting.

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. Howard Dean didn't make it an issue.

The Washington Post and Newsweek did. Don't blame Dr. Dean for Sen. Kerry's ethical problems.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Did you watch Meet the Press yesterday?

I did. I expect Michael Isikoff to attack Dems. I expect the Post to have a field day after all the ass covering they have done for the Bush administration. I don't expect Democrats who have done the same fucking thing in their own state to do it.

BTW, if I recall correctly, you are a police officer..they belong to unions...unions are special interests according to the definition...capiche?

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. Yes, I saw it.

I also recall Mr. Russert raising the issue and asking the questions. I recall Dr. Dean replying to them. Is 'Blame Howard!' going to become the new Kerry campaign slogan?

It is Sen. Kerry who is the problem here---not Dr. Dean.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. And the manner in which he replied is at issue

I don't fault Kerry for successfully raising funds to get re-elected against Republicans. I'm a Democrat...go figure!

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. An ethical cripple?

Please give me a fucking break!

Have you even READ his work on Iran Contra or BCCI? Have you BOTHERED to read up on his actions on Kyoto?

SHOW ME THE QUID PRO QUO.

BTW...you forgot to anser..are police officer's unions special interests or are they not? Do you withhold your union dues so that no politician will be corrupted by them? Or are you happy when you contribute and they put more officers on the street or provide you with better compensation benefits?

[Cuban_Liberal]

24. Yes, ethical cripple.

I'm not going to answer and participate in the hijacking of my own thread. This is about John Kerry, thank you, not my union.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. The crux of your accusations are "special interests" I am simply asking

you to define them. I am not hijacking anything.

[Cuban_Liberal]

32. I'll not define a commonly understood term.

I will refer you to the 'Washington Post' and 'Newsweek' for specifics regarding Sen. Kerry's 15-year plus history of accepting special interest money.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. OK but how is that different from a union contributing?

Unions were the MAIN REASON Republicans coined the term "special interests."

[mopinko]

37. unions are not special interests

unions work for the common good of average people. the most they get back for their contributions is labor laws that are fair. maybe jobs. and the benefits of these laws extend beyond union workers, raising the wages and improving the working conditions of many, many more workers.
THIS IS THE COMMON GOOD. THIS IS WHAT GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO SAFEGUARD!!
not special-common.
corporate fat cats contribute chunks of money and what do they get in return? they get to violate the common good. drill for oil in wilderness areas. get rich off the public airways, and pollute our democracy to boot. permission to have corporate headquarters in mailboxes in the caymen island so they escape taxation. fat profits from medicare "reform". farm subsidies that make big agribusinesses rich, and drive family farmers out of business. i'm sure everyone here could chime in with their own example.
what did unions get from their contributions that harmed the public good?

[blm]

11. I wish you'd explain that in a big fat juicy thread.

.

[wabeewoman]

13. Your point is well taken...

this 'we've got to choose now so we don't divide the party' is reminiscent of bush's 'we've got to go to war, now' 'we need the patriot act now-no time to debate'. If there is one thing that I'll NEVER accept again from our elected officials is the rush rush rush crap about how we HAVE to make a decision right now. There is no hurry and the argument that we get more anti-bush press with more candidates has merit.

[Cuban_Liberal]

14. Thanks for the support.

:hi:

[Lexingtonian]

21. questionable ethics and integrity?

Hey, at least he didn't write the PATRIOT Act.

And John Edwards, Trial Lawyer and Southern Democrat, won't be an easier target for Rove? A man who isn't beating Bush in his own state? And what happens to his vaunted Southern support once Zell Miller hits the campaign trail against him?

[NNN0LHI]

25. Confucius say sometimes an Edwards supporter...

...is not really an Edwards supporter. If you know what I mean?

Don

[Cuban_Liberal]

26. Confucius also say

Dr. Freud was right--- some times a cigar is just a cigar.

[goobergunch]

27. Confucius died long before Edwards was born

:P

[blm]

28. Bingo.

.

[Cuban_Liberal]

30. Not bingo.

Thank for playing, though.

[Straight Shooter]

29. I gradually eased into my support of Dean

Through the budding campaigns I have watched and listened, and watched and listened some more. I won't go into my reasons and bore everybody, but Dean is my choice. Unless Superman joins the race, I'll stay with Dean.

Kerry is lower on my list than Lieberman. At least with Lieberman, what you see is what you get. And if people think these "special interest" charges don't matter, they may be in for a nasty surprise. There is also the issue about him forgetting that he had met Chung in his Senate office. That's part of the problem, too. (Sorry, no link, but I got the article off buzzflash home page.)

Kerry has a convenient memory. He needs to be prodded by Dean now and then. He's just giving Lurch a taste of his own medicine.

[AZCat]

39. This is nitpicking, but...

Superman can't run for president- he wasn't born a U.S. citizen.
Otherwise he would get my vote also!

[jansu]

33. I agree. Vote your choice, not the polls.

Who do the Republicans say they want to run against? Dean. Who do they say they don't want to run against? Kerry. Do they ever lie?

This does not have to be sewn up before the Convention. Every delegate that a candidate gets, helps them put their mark on the platform of the Democratic Party and gives them some power in choosing who the Vice President is. Don't give up your ideals. Vote your candidate!

[kaitykaity]

34. I won't be.

They'll pry my Dean buttons from my fingers the day that one of the other candidates reaches the delegate threshhold. Until that day . . . not no but hell no.

[DrFunkenstein]

36. I Disagree

I think you should be stampeded into conformity. What's wrong with that?

[Cuban_Liberal]

40. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

:P

[Crunchy Frog]

38. I have been effectively

disenfranchised, first by the lateness of my state's primaries, and second by the fact that the Repukes in my state took away our primary and replaced it with a caucus. However, I refuse to be stampeded into anything by our corporate media, which I am almost completely boycotting right now. I will support my candidate with dollars and other support until or unless he is out of the race and I don't care what the corporate media tries to manipulate me into. I absolutely refuse to be stampeded.

(I don't mean any disrespect to people on this board who favor a candidate that the media is supporting right now, I assume everyone on here is thoughtful and has arrived at their choice through their own thought processes and not through media manipulation.)

[Padraig18]

41. I know what you mean.

Our primary is in mid-March, and if everyone drops out before then, I am effectively disenfranchised. I just sent $100 to the Edwards' and Clark campaign, because i want there to still be a race by the time Illinois rolls around.

:)

[janx]

42. You feel that way too, eh?

;-)

We don't have much of a chance.

Between the media, the DLC, and now the DNC...

[Padraig18]

43. Send money to someone else today.

Dean, Edwards, Clark or whoever, but help keep them solvent and viable, if you want a choice. :)