It's scary to agree with Andrew Sullivan - Dean Article

[RetroLounge]

So why do I keep coming back to the fireplug from Vermont? No, I'm not cynically trying to engineer a Bush landslide. And, no, it's not because John Kerry seems such a tired and faded figure (although that's part of it). I just think that the Democrats' sudden panic about Dean's electability is overblown and that the urge to find someone more superficially "presidential" is a trap. It won't help the Democrats in November (I don't know any Democrats who are actually excited about Kerry), and it will deny all of us a real debate about the future direction of the country.

Dean offers, to purloin a phrase, a choice, not an echo. His pugnacity in defense of his liberal instincts is obviously genuine. After eight years of careful Clintonian positioning, it's refreshing. Compared with Kerry's packaged, tested, hollow rants against "special interests," Dean's straight talk is invigorating. He isn't haunted, as Kerry is, by the specter of Vietnam. Even the famous Iowa scream had more authenticity and fire than Kerry's labored recitation "Bring it on." Unlike Kerry, Dean has held a serious executive office — balancing budgets, reforming health care, innovating on civil rights. Kerry's undistinguished, flip-floppy Senate record is far less impressive.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040209-586254,00.html

Sullivan's motives are suspect, but I agree with much he says.

"Dean offers, to purloin a phrase, a choice, not an echo"

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. yes, and why do Repubilcans want you to choose Dean?

lets ponder that for a moment.

[RetroLounge]

4. I don't let Republicans make my choices for me.

lets ponder that for a moment.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. no, but they'll gladly applaud your choice

which, alone, should make you ponder that for a moment. :)

[cid]

23. I find it amazing that you actually believe that the Republicas

would tell us who they really want in the election. Hey give us Dean cuz we can beat him. Dont give us Kerry he can beat bush. Do you seriously believe if they were afraid of Kerry running they would annouce it to the world? Get a grip here folks. Think for a minute.

[sendero]

5. That is an absurd assumption..

... considering that the Rep-controlled media had a lot to do with Dean's loss of favor.

I give a lot more weight to what people do than to what they say. All that "we want Dean" stuff was so much bullshit.

What they want is an insider senator. No sitting senator has moved to the white house in over 40 years. But plenty of governors and ex governors have.

[blm]

7. Look back in history. Every 40 or so years a Senator DID win the

presidency. Well, it's been 43 years...so??????????

It's time.

[lancdem]

9. The media is not entirely at fault

Dean himself has admitted mistakes in strategy, etc.

[slinkerwink]

16. Republicans said they were afraid of Dean, and now they're afraid of Kerry

mmmm......that's interesting.

[jansu]

21. Because they hope you will choose someone else?!

If the Republicans are telling us that they would love to run against Dean and would hate to run against Kerry, I would turn that around to find the truth. They lie about everything else, why would any Democrat think they are telling the truth about this?

The media is owned by the Republicans, just 6 of them control the whole thing, except for a couple of independent newspapers you can still find in a few small towns.

Vote your choice, not the polls! Let this debate and primary process go to the Convention and let all Democrats decide there. This process is good for America. We are getting our points across to the American people. In NH 15% of the Republicans did not vote for Bush in their primary. The majority of those wrote in one of our Democratic candidates. That is the good news!

[otohara]

2. Not Going To Read Andrew Sullivan Now

or ever, he is the enemy.

[mitchum]

3. Okay, that's the second bit of advice I wouldn't take from Bareback Andy

[lancdem]

8. You're right to question Sullivan's motives

he's a conservative. Why would he find a liberal "refreshing"? Would he support Dean in the GE? Hell no. RWers like Sullivan and Hannity want Dean to form a third party and split the Dems, helping Bush. He won't, of course, so they can dream all they want. It ain't happening.

[Julien Sorel]

10. 'A choice, not an echo' was Goldwater's campaign slogan.

Sorry, I'll take a pass. Cumdrool Sullivan will have to find some other sucker.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Goldwater's Slogan Was "In Your Heart You Know He's Right"

To which his opponents gave the retort "In your guts you know he's nuts."


Which current candidate does that slogan best apply?

[Julien Sorel]

13. I think one of them was his primary slogan, and the other

was his slogan for the general election. Both are Goldwater slogans, though.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. You're Right

Also, the retort to "In your heart you know he's right" Folks said yes, far right...

[bigtree]

11. A right-wing conversation with Sullivan

I am amazed at the number of (Democratic ?) critics of John Kerry who will use republicans to impune him. There is nothing redeeming about Sullivan. But apparently some find his critisisms of John Kerry irresistable in their attempt to drag him down in order to elevate their own candidate.


http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/sullivan.php

John Hawkins: How about dashing off a quick sentence or so about the following individuals...

John Hawkins: George W. Bush

Andrew Sullivan: Dogged

John Hawkins: Bill Clinton

Andrew Sullivan: Flawed

John Hawkins: Ann Coulter

Andrew Sullivan: Bracing

John Hawkins: Howard Dean

Andrew Sullivan: Proud

John Hawkins: Maureen Dowd

Andrew Sullivan: Shallow

John Hawkins: Christopher Hitchens

Andrew Sullivan: Arch

John Hawkins: Paul Krugman

Andrew Sullivan: Witless

John Hawkins: Michael Moore

Andrew Sullivan: Malign

John Hawkins: Camille Paglia

Andrew Sullivan: Fabulous

John Hawkins: Howell Raines

Andrew Sullivan: Pompous

John Hawkins: Michelangelo Signorile

Andrew Sullivan: Who?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. It's a Kerry hit piece disguised as a pro Dean piece

Sullivan is a right wing nut who knows how to play the divisions Howard the alleged ANTI-POLITICIAN is sewing within the party even deeper.

[La_Serpiente]

15. I agree

the motivation for Sully to write this piece is to bash Kerry more than to praise Dean.

On his website, which I read a few times a week, he doesn't write any positive things about Dean. In fact, he barely even mentions him any of his writings, both negative and positive. However, he has spent some time within the last few weeks trying to discredit Kerry. See for yourself.

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/

Tell him to stay in his own primary.

[RetroLounge]

17. as usual, no one comments on the substance of the article

Just the Writer...

So Time Magazine is a Right Wing Magazine, so I'll ignore it from now on.

Oh, wait ALL THE MEDIA is right wing, remember?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. The SUBSTANCE of the article is that it is a Kerry HIT PIECE

cloaked as support of Dean.

Allow me to highlight the language,

His pugnacity in defense of his liberal instincts is obviously genuine

Yeah right...that's why he gets 100% from the NRA.

Compared with Kerry's packaged, tested, hollow rants against "special interests," Dean's straight talk is invigorating

Please Andrew Sullivan defender of all things Bush commenting on special interests?

Dean's record in Vermont re special interests is HARDLY one of a boy scout.

He isn't haunted, as Kerry is, by the specter of Vietnam.
No he didn't go, he had a bad back and went skiing.


Unlike Kerry, Dean has held a serious executive office — balancing budgets, reforming health care, innovating on civil rights

Guess Sully forgot Kerry was LT Governor of a state whose major cities could HOUSE all the occupants of the state of Vermont. DOH!

Time restraints and the fact that I WORK for a living stop me from dissecting this entire hit piece but I think it is funny that Sully plants the NADER threat in the article ever so subtly. Anyone who lets Sully into their mind on this one is asking to be linguistically manipulated.

This is EXACTLY WHY I don't support Dean..he makes it WAY too easy to sow the seeds of division even further

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. "Haunted By The Specter Of Viet Nam"

What drivel....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Bareback Boy's Whole Rant Is An Argument Masquerading As Fact

What's to critique?