The enemy is George W. Bush

[genius]

I was just looking at a post from someone who was planning to rally people against Kerry in the General Election. It is one thing to fight hard for our candidates. Some of the best candidates may lose. Someone I don't care as much for may win the nomination. But look at how much damage Bush has done in the past three years to this country. I don't think our country or the world could survive another four years of Bush. As for those who are attacking Kerry, he's got one of the best voting records in the Senate. It's far from perfect but can you imagine Bush voting against cloture on the Medicare bill or against the $87 billion dollars for the occupation. Kucinich has the most perfect record of any of the candidates and every Kucinich supporter I know would gladly support Kerry if he got the nomination. The Kucinich supporters are still going to remain true to Dennis in the primary and are still hoping Dennis will become the nominee. Isn't it time that people started fighting for their candidates to get the nomination and hoping they win rather than threatening to oppose the nominee if he's not their guy?

[lancdem]

I hope these people do eventually look at the big picture

Even Lieberman's a hundred times better than Bush, and I mean that seriously. I can't think of one thing Bush has done in the past three years that a Dem president would've done, except perhaps launch military action in Afghanistan to get the Taliban (and that's assuming 9/11 would've happened on his watch.)

[JasonBerry]

1. I still can't bring myself to say "enemy"

He is our REAL opponent. I still have a hard time calling an American president an "enemy" --- especially in a world of TRUE enemies of America. With that said, I agree that we must remember who we are out to defeat -- and that's GWB. If we destroy each other before our convention, we can kiss it goodbye.

[QC]

2. Here's his picture, for those who have gotten so caught up in bashing Dems

that they don't remember what he looks like.

[rucky]

4. Does that man have any teeth in his head

or is it 100% air up there?

[QC]

5. I dunno, but I love the look on Powell's face!

;-)

[maddezmom]

12. my caption ~ what a nitwit

actually stolen from the 85 yr old republican that's not voting for shrub this year.

[ProfessorPlum]

6. What is the most appropriate caption for that picture

for Powell's thought bubble? Just look at the way he is looking at Smirky. I'll try one:

"Thanks for making me lie to the UN, you sack of shite."

Eh, not very good.

[Casablanca]

9. Powell's thought bubble

"Don't even THINK of f*cking with my denial."

Bush thought bubble - blank, as always.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. That is one nasty look.

I'm not sure there's words to describe that look of disdain.

[spooky3]

54. "When I sit next to him, my 'I'm With Stupid' Tshirt seems redundant."

[blm]

16. Wow...Powell looks as evil as he really is in that pic.

And Bush looks as stupidly evil as he is.

[rucky]

3. They're just bluffing

pay 'em no mind.

there's some people who just want attention & they don't care if it's good or bad attention.

[KFC]

13. I agree 100%

Just trying to act all radical to stir it up.

[Forkboy]

15. Dont be so sure

[rucky]

18. Ask me again in 2005

I'll give you a very different answer.

;)

[Casablanca]

7. No, the enemy is the system that supports Bush.

Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, and Lieberman have been part of the system by voting for his worst policies.

Their intentions don't matter, just their votes.

[genius]

10. People are hurting in this country. All three you mentioned opposed

a tremendous part of Bush's agenda (Medicare cuts, education cuts, attacks on the environment) and would have done a better job as president. Kids are drinking cyanide thanks to Mr. Bush and not thanks to these guys. Can you not see any difference between poisoning children and keeping them safe?

[Casablanca]

22. What you've mentioned are examples of Clintonian triangulation.

Give the progressives a lot of little good votes like Family Leave Act and sell out on the votes that have a much more long-term effect, like NAFTA, the Iraq War, the Patriot Act (which Edwards co-authored) and the Homeland Security Act (which Kerry also voted for).

Triangulation has a ready-made defense too. "You mean the Family Leave Act and voting against cyanide in water are _little things_?!!" Well, compared to a deficit our grandchildren will be still be paying off, a Homeland Security Act and Patriot Act that guts our civil rights, and a NAFTA that sets the stage for wholesale shipping of jobs overseas, well ... yes, comparatively.

It doesn't mean that I'm stony hearted towards the kids - I'll fight for them too - but that there are clearer and more present dangers than cyanide, and that they _all_ need to be addressed. Triangulation always keeps you from doing that, as Clinton, Kissenger, and Kerry have demonstrated in their careers.

[genius]

23. Well Kucinich is the best on all these issues. What are you doing to give

him the nomination?

[Casablanca]

25. Kucinich voted for the Iraq war. So I'm not supporting him.

Not just because of his pro-war vote, but because he hasn't acknowledged the vote as a mistake. He just says the Bush junta misinterpreted the _intent_ of his vote, just like Kerry and Edwards.

Kucinich votes progressive most of the time, which is why I'm glad to see him in Congress. But we need a President that will explain why he does what he does (even when he disagrees with you) in a direct and concise manner a la Dean, not trying to make you feel like he's agreeing with you when he isn't, like Kerry et al.

[Forkboy]

33. Flat out wrong

DK did not vote for the war.

[Casablanca]

34. Correct. DK voted against the war, but for the Patriot Act.

Mea culpa.

[Astarho]

35. Wrong again

Kucinich voted against the PATRIOT Act

He is the only presidential candidate who voted against the PATRIOT Act. As president, one of his first moves will be to repeal it.
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/patriot_act.php

And he has been fighting against it ever since it passed.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh10_kucinich/030924TruePatriot.html

[Forkboy]

36. Thank you for saving me the trouble of correcting him again

:)

[Casablanca]

38. Excuse me, but thomas.loc.gov corrected me, not you.

:P

[Forkboy]

40. Well as long as someone did

;-)

[Casablanca]

41. thomas.loc.gov isn't a someone, Forkboy. It means "I did, not you."

:P

[Forkboy]

43. It's all a someone to me

things are getting fuzzy lately :D

[Casablanca]

37. Thanks - Kucinich voted for 9/14 Anti-Terrorism Bill not Patriot Act

HJRES 64 - the one where Barbara Lee was the sole dissenting vote. DK screwed up big time there. He helped to give carte blanche military authority to the executive branch as long as Bush could give some kind of story saying that it was necessary to catch 9/11 conspirators. It specified no oversight or objective criteria on what constituted a "9/11 conspirator".

And _that_ was the bill DK whined about "Well, we didn't _intend_ blah blah blah" Thanks for clearing that up.

[genius]

60. That was not the anti-terrorism bill. Sorry. Wrong again.

I almost think people should take a test before they vote in primaries.

[genius]

48. Go back to school. DK voted against the war and against USA-PATRIOT

In fact Kucinich and Sharpton are the only two candidates who opposed USA-PATRIOT.

[genius]

49. In fact, Kucinich is the leader of the fight against attacks on civil

liberties. He put together the HOuse opposition to USA-PATRIOT. He authored and co-sponsored the Benjamin Franklin True Patriot Act which will repeal U.S.A.-PATRIOT. If you care about civil liberties, you should be idolizing Kucinich.

[Casablanca]

57. Except when he voted for the 9/15 Anti-Terrorist Act ...

And without reading it. It started the ball rolling that the Patriot Act continued.

That was the Act I was thinking of, not the Patriot Act. And Kucinich's defense of it is the same as Kerry's and Edwards' defense of their votes for the Patriot Act - "I didn't _intend_ ..."

[Casablanca]

56. I acknowleged this long before you posted. Please do your homework, genius

[genius]

46. Get an education. Kucinich voted against the war. Dean lied

about the positions of the other candidates but repeating Dean's lies doesn't make them true. I think this is the real reason Dean's doing so badly.

[Casablanca]

58. DUDE! How many times did you have to post this?

And provide a URL supporting your claim that Dean _lied_ about this, instead of just me temporarily confusing one un-constitutional Act for another.

You're exhibiting opportunistic politics at its finest.

[genius]

59. Kucinich was the leader of the anti-war/anti-PATRIOT ACT movement

The only candidate with the courage to send out literature and make commercials lying about that was Dean. It's a matter of major concern to see that he's managed to confuse people.

[DebJ]

14. "Their intentions don't matter, just their votes."

Amen. Not what you say, but what you do counts 100-fold for politicians.

[Casablanca]

24. Precisely. Because intentions are only cover for politicians.

Not the rest of us.

[truizm]

17. When did Kucinich vote for Bush policies? :/

Kucinich is the ONLY candidate to vote AGAINST the Iraq INVASION.

Kucinich is the ONLY candidate to vote AGAINST the PATRIOT ACT.

Kucinich wants to cut the bloated pentagon budget that PNAC built up...Dean plans on keeping it as is...

[Hippo_Tron]

20. But Kucinich used to be pro-life...

Hence nobody is perfect.

[genius]

50. Kucinich is the most pro-choice, being the one candidate willing to

use Roe v. Wade as a litmus test.

[JohnKleeb]

61. Dude Kucinich voted against the Patriot Act and War

and has done countless other fights against the adminstration. Funniest post of the tonight, Kucinich the Bush enabler.

[JailForBush]

8. Three Points

1. I'm very suspicious of John Kerry. His membership in Skull and Bones and his recent endorsement by Washington State Governor Gary Locke (who has sold this state out the way George Bush sold out America) should give anyone pause.

2. Joe Lieberman is not 100 times better than George W. Bush.

3. George W. Bush IS the enemy - not just "the" enemy, but THE enemy.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Response to those three points

1. Don't criticize the guy for what he did in college. Lots of people do things in college that seem silly later on in life. And just because somebody endorses Kerry doesn't mean that Kerry endorses that person.

2. True, but he's still better.

3. Damn Straight

[Forkboy]

19. Bush is only one of my enemies

he may be at the top of the list but there's a lot of people nipping at his heels.

[library_max]

26. Excellent post.

This is the point on which we need to concentrate, no matter which Democratic primary candidate we support.

[creativelcro]

27. It was my thread. Thank you.

The DU poll shows that over 35% of people here will not vote for Kerry in the GE. So, you cannot just ignore it and label it non-patriotic like someone else has been doing to the Dems all along. My argument is simple:
I despise Bush and I despise Kerry. I agree with progressive ideals. Having Bush in the WH is a problem, but at least I can say that he is on the bad side and I'm fighting to fix it. Kerry would be as much of a problem as Bush. But he is officially a Democrat. It is easier to rally progressive forces to fight an obviously non-progressive president than a latently non-progressive president. This country needs 4 more years of Bush hell to really wake up. Perhaps at that time a really progressive movement with sufficient energy and strength will emerge.

[library_max]

31. Not that I would venture to call a DU poll "unscientific" -

cough, cough - but the results may have something to do with the way feelings are running high between the supporters of competing primary candidates. Everybody wants their guy to win, and it's easy to get caught up in the moment and not think ahead to the general election. One of the posters on that thread went so far as to admit that he would vote for Kerry if he got the nomination but voted "no" in the poll because he is for someone else in the primaries.

After the nomination is settled, no doubt there will be some crybabies who can't handle their disappointment that their preferred candidate wasn't nominated and who will vote third party or stay home. Why encourage that kind of behavior? All it gets us is four more years of Bush. And if you really believe that Kerry would have been as bad as Bush has been, well, please vote in your world rather than ours.

[library_max]

39. Since I wrote the above,

five more of the "no" voters in that poll have posted to admit that they really will vote for Kerry if he's the nominee (or "probably" will, in one case).

[genius]

53. Well you may have to choose in November. You can't dislike Bush

if you refuse to vote for the nominee.

[THUNDER HANDS]

28. boy I hope so

I'll vote for a toaster if it gets enough votes over John Kerry. I just wanna beat Bush. ;)

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creativelcro]

30. "psychotic" sounds like an insult to me....

[Forkboy]

32. With us or against us!

rah rah rah!

[MurikanDemocrat]

42. I think some people are smarting over the fact that their candidate

did not sweep the first few primaries in a landslide like they assumed all along he would. Kerry re-tooled his campaign and with a lot of hard work pushed ahead in the final days leading up to the IA and NH primaries and came out a clear winner in both.

Contrary to how some like to spin this, it wasn't a stunning surprise. The polls in the week leading up to Iowa clearly showed Kerry gaining and Dean dropping. It wasn't some overnight fluke.

Yes, the enemy is Bush, not other Democrats. The important thing is that Democrats chose a candidate through the primary process and stand behind that choice to replace Bush in November.

Threatening to oppose the nominee or take steps to get others to rebel against the candidate in November is just childish and makes me think of a toddler kicking and screaming on the floor because they didn't get their way. Let them. It's all hyperbole and isn't going to sway anyone here.

[Northwind]

44. Kerry is just as dangerous as Bush

He is my enemy just as much as Bush is. The two are indistinguishable.

[genius]

52. Take the time to learn something about kerry before you unfairly

attack him. Any claim that they are the same indicates ignorance.

[creativelcro]

55. Done that. Not a pleasant sight, I'm afraid.

[JPZenger]

45. Stop Bush's Pop Up Ads

Are you tired of those annoying pop up ads on the internet for George W.?

Here is a link to some free programs that can block those types of annoying ads:

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,8060,00.asp

[JPZenger]

47. Bush's Lies on Deficit and Iraq

Bush's lies on his new budget and the deficit are uncovered on the following article:

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.as...iJRJ8OVF&b=6228

----
Video of Bush Administration's lies on Iraq:

http://www.moveon.org/false/video/

[JPZenger]

51. Molly Ivins' Great Column on Bush's Deficit

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/7769407.htm

[Rhiannon12866]

62. I absolutely agree

Kucinich is my candidate, but I realize that he has little chance of getting the nomination. I will support whoever does get the nomination, which is in the true spirit of DU. That's what DU was created for, after Bush* stole the election in 2000. I am appalled by those who say they would vote for Bush* as a "protest vote" if their candidate doesn't get the nomination. We need to stick together here, and take back our country. Anyone but Bush* in 2004.